Perpetual Loser

[untjim1995]

I'm convinced now, more than ever, that we are never going to be a consistent winner here. Everything was lined up to keep the momentum going from last year's great season, which is now

looking like a fluke now. I thought we'd see a big pickup in recruiting and we would see us challenge Texas in our body bag game. I thought we would pound thru the rest of our schedule and finish around 8-4 or better. Instead, we beat the absolute worst FBS and FCS programs in the country and that will be it. We hire an experienced college coach, build a brand new stadium, join a conference with teams that people have actually heard of, and finally turn I a great winning season--only to see us go back to looking like Dodge is coaching us at Fouts against some SBC spare.

I'm convinced now, more than ever, that we cannot build a winner here. We will never be the team I dreamed we were gonna be. We are just always going to be that Liberal Arts and Music school that started as a Teachers College. I'm sorry for this negative rant, but I'm just beaten right now. Never imagined we would get clubbed at home by USM this year. Rice is going to prison rape us next week--they will duplicate the last visit we had to their stadium.

[PlanoGreen]

Hold your head high, basketball season is right around the corner

[Mean Green 93-98]

Of course someone can build a consistent winner here. It remains to be seen whether Coach Mac will be the one to do it, but there are coaches out there who most certainly can. We have far more advantages at North Texas than disadvantages, compared to other non-P5 schools.

[Got5onIt]

Of course someone can build a consistent winner here. It remains to be seen whether Coach Mac will be the one to do it, but there are coaches out there who most certainly can. We have far more advantages at North Texas than disadvantages, compared to other non-P5 schools.

I think we all think this same thing. However, can we get the right man in here to do it? Is the right man already in here?

[shaft]

I'm convinced now, more than ever, that we are never going to be a consistent winner here. Everything was lined up to keep the momentum going from last year's great season, which is now

looking like a fluke now. I thought we'd see a big pickup in recruiting and we would see us challenge Texas in our body bag game. I thought we would pound thru the rest of our schedule and finish around 8-4 or better. Instead, we beat the absolute worst FBS and FCS programs in the country and that will be it. We hire an experienced college coach, build a brand new stadium, join a conference with teams that people have actually heard of, and finally turn I a great winning season--only to see us go back to looking like Dodge is coaching us at Fouts against some SBC spare.

I'm convinced now, more than ever, that we cannot build a winner here. We will never be the team I dreamed we were gonna be. We are just always going to be that Liberal Arts and Music school that started as a Teachers College. I'm sorry for this negative rant, but I'm just beaten right now. Never imagined we would get clubbed at home by USM this year. Rice is going to prison ####us next week--they will duplicate the last visit we had to their stadium.

You had sugar plum fantasies about a team that didn't have a quarterback and now the guy is falling. Grow up, and stop making rape jokes.

[Army of Dad]

You had sugar plum fantasies about a team that didn't have a quarterback and now the guy is falling. Grow up, and stop making rape jokes.

I thought you said no rape jokes?

[UNT90]

Of course someone can build a consistent winner here. It remains to be seen whether Coach Mac will be the one to do it, but there are coaches out there who most certainly can. We have far more advantages at North Texas than disadvantages, compared to other non-P5 schools.

Our disadvantage sits in the ADs office, and will continue to do so until that AD decides he wants to retire.

Edited October 19, 2014 by UNT90

[Rudy]

We can build a winner, but it will take the right attitude and the right people to instill those attitudes. I'm not ready to show Mac the door, but changes do need to be made in a few key places.

[letsgiveacheer]

I'm not so sure. Since I became a huge fan in 1971, and will remain so, we have only enjoyed about 15 winning seasons. Once that sinks in, you realize something is fundamentally wrong here.

[Rudy]

Yes, the attitude of winning is not drilled into the heads of those in charge of the university. That is the fundamentally wrong component. But it can be changed.

[FirefightnRick]

I'm not so sure. Since I became a huge fan in 1971, and will remain so, we have only enjoyed about 15 winning seasons. Once that sinks in, you realize something is fundamentally wrong here.

Lack of accountability at every level. See Lee Jackson's tenure as a prime example, and go from there.

Rick

[UNT90]

Lack of accountability at every level. See Lee Jackson's tenure as a prime example, and go from there.

Rick

Pretty much this.

We really need more alumni to run for state government offices.

[Got5onIt]

I'm not so sure. Since I became a huge fan in 1971, and will remain so, we have only enjoyed about 15 winning seasons. Once that sinks in, you realize something is fundamentally wrong here.

Holy cow, that's 15 winning seasons out of 43. I wonder how that stacks up with other Texas schools?

[Eagle1855]

Holy cow, that's 15 winning seasons out of 43. I wonder how that stacks up with other Texas schools?

Baylor has had about the same.

TCU has had ~18.

UH has had 20+

Tech has had close to 30.

A&M has had 31.

UT has had at least 36 winning seasons.

(Since 1971, all per wikipedia -- and me doing quick count, so if it's off by one or two, whatever -- you get the the idea)

Edited October 20, 2014 by Eagle1855

[untjim1995]

When an alum can go back to 1971 and say he has seen 15 winning seasons out 43 years, it just makes you question if this is ever going to be a place that can be a consistent winner. Since I got here in 1991, I have seen us have 5 winning seasons (1 as a 1-aa team), while losing seasons total 18 seasons and appears to be going on 19 this season. Of those 18 seasons, we lost 6 games once, 7 games 6 times, 8 games twice, 9 games 6 times, 10 games twice, and 11 games once. Unless we win out, we will add to this total in some fashion.

Since we went to Division 1-A in 1995, I have convinced myself that we will actually turn this around and be the next up-and-coming program in college football. Instead, I have watched Boise State, Central Florida, South Florida, Alabama-Birmingham, Troy, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Middle Tennessee, and Texas-San Antonio either blow pass us or at least make the same progress as we have. Sorry, but I am now of the belief that I just need to enjoy the random winning season that shows up in Denton, like last year, and hold tight to that memory, just as I did in 1994, 2002, and 2003, when we had really good teams that could compete with anyone we played.

Winning at sports isn't as important to the university's administration as it is to me. Maybe they are right--maybe the money spent there is really too much and it is better to spend it on other educational areas of the university. But I don't know of any other Texas school that does it this way.

[Coffee and TV]

Instead, I have watched Boise State, Central Florida, South Florida, Alabama-Birmingham, Troy, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Middle Tennessee, and Texas-San Antonio either blow pass us or at least make the same progress as we have.

With the exception of Boise State, all those programs are as mired in mediocrity as we are currently and Boise is having their worst season in maybe 15 years. I don't know what makes you so jealous of them, especially Troy.

[Travis]

With the exception of Boise State, all those programs are as mired in mediocrity as we are currently and Boise is having their worst season in maybe 15 years. I don't know what makes you so jealous of them, especially Troy.

Boise is having their worst season in 15 years? They have only lost 2 games for the season with one being against #3 Ole Miss. The other against a much improved Air Force squad. They are doing just dandy. Last year was their 'worst' year in a while and they went 8-4. I am quite confident that they are not having their worst season in 15 years. You certainly wouldn't know it by the city and fans.

I don't know about the others I would be jealous of outside of say maybe Central Florida and South Florida-because of what they have done in recent history. Those two and Boise are far superior to our program. The others, are right on par with us.

[untjim1995]

With the exception of Boise State, all those programs are as mired in mediocrity as we are currently and Boise is having their worst season in maybe 15 years. I don't know what makes you so jealous of them, especially Troy.

No jealousy of most of those listed--just saying they have at least gotten to the same level as we have since they all moved up to I-A around the same time we did. Boise State is still gonna win the MWC. UCF will probably still win the AAC. South Florida has had some really good teams, although they have really fallen back--but they did just announce a home-and-home with Texas, so that is great for them. The others are not really to be envied, but they all have at least experienced the same amount of winning as we have, except for UTSA. But UTSA beat us last year, probably will again, and has the ability to attract OOC teams to San Antonio that we could only dream of. My point is that we have watched several start-ups exceed where we are--or at least get to what we have enjoyed--since 1995. BTW, of those teams listed, we have lost both times we have played UAB since 1995, lost both times we played South Florida, we lost our only game against UTSA, we went 2-8 against Troy, we are 2-5 versus FIU, and 4-6 against FAU. We went 3-3 against Boise State, although only one of those was when they became a big winner. We have never played UCF. That's 11-27 agianst teams that have moved up since 1995 or later and have had simlar success or more in that timeframe.

[Mean Green 93-98]

When an alum can go back to 1971 and say he has seen 15 winning seasons out 43 years, it just makes you question if this is ever going to be a place that can be a consistent winner.

Just because it hasn't consistently been done doesn't mean it can't consistently been done.

As Eagle1855 points out in his post, Baylor has had about the same number of winning seasons in the same span, and that's counting the past few years. If there was any program at the country that anyone could have looked at 10 years ago and said, "They can't be a consistent winner," it would have been Baylor. They were the "lovable losers," the Chicago Cubs of the Southwest Conference and Big XII, who certainly were not invited to the latter conference based on athletic merit. They had just been thumped 52-14 by a Sun Belt team in their pathetic dump of a stadium. But then Baylor brought in Art Briles, and everything changed. They are now a national powerhouse.

In the time you have been following North Texas football, when have we ever made a comparable head coaching hire, even at a relative non-P5 level? We have hired two high school coaches in way above their heads, we have hired a head case who was a weak recruiter, we have hired a mediocre offensive coordinator from a C-USA team who mailed it in after a few successful seasons, and we have hired a coach whose time has probably passed and who is perhaps the worst recruiter we've had since our return to 1A. There is no Art Briles there. There is not even a Mark Hudspeth.

And much of our losing occurred during periods where there was no support from higher up--the administration essentially forced us to drop a level and they kept us in the worst facilities in all of 1A (FBS). Much of that has changed, in that recent UNT presidents have all been outspoken advocates of athletics, especially football. That doesn't mean they've been perfect, but they don't have to be perfect to have success. Hayden Fry had tremendous success with an antagonistic administration. The primary shortcoming of our administration/BOR is probably (as FFR pointed out) the lack of accountability.

All it will take is bringing in the right coach with the right staff. If that happens, they will bring in the right recruits. Does this describe Coach Mac and his staff? The jury is still out, and the results so far from this season do not look to be in his favor.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Mean Green 93-98

[Eagle1855]

Winning at sports isn't as important to the university's administration as it is to me. Maybe they are right--maybe the money spent there is really too much and it is better to spend it on other educational areas of the university. But I don't know of any other Texas school that does it this way.

I'd buy that if we were a really good academic institution. Or anywhere near Tier One Status. Or if we had an actual plan to become a Tier One academic powerhouse... Or if UT and A&M weren't already doing both academics and athletics quite well. Or if UH wasn't working towards achieving both (with much greater success than us).

So... I don't know what the admin at this school wants. But I know they approved spending a boatload on athletic buildings, a stadium, and the *alleged* addition of another program in baseball.

I think they just waited too long.

But I don't believe academics and athletics are mutually exclusive. And I think Dr Pohl understood that quite well.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Eagle1855

[ColoradoEagle]

So long as: an AD can have a hiring streak like RV has had and keep his job, we can keep a head football coach for a third year after going 3-21 his first two, we can bring a head football coach back for a fourth year after going 5-31 for his first three, we can bring back a basketball head coach who took a program that was 104-57 in the five years before he was hired and keep him after going 28-36 his first two seasons, one of which was against a schedule that was so full of lower division teams we nearly got in trouble with the NCAA and let's not forget that loss to a D-II school...

So long as we treat sports as a checkbox on a list of whether or not we have them instead of actually striving to succeed in those sports, this athletic program will never be a winner.

[meanJewGreen]

The only school in Texas that can make this type of complaint is Rice. The acceptance rate at the school is at an all-time low, 14 percent. Somehow, they still get the recruits in though...

The last three coaches we've had haven't been innovators. Dodge was in HS, but never adapted to the college game. (His style was successful in HS because kids played it starting in 6th grade), Dickey wasn't an innovator, and McCarney, while I guess he's a great motivator, isn't an innovator. He's a retread. Yes, he has a chip on his shoulder, but has he learned anything since his Iowa State tenure?

All of us on this board are desperate for success at UNT, whether they be in bball, fball or academics (I for one would like to see more money towards building our business school and journalism programs). To do this, we need to hire those who will break the mold. I wouldn't mind searching the lower ranks for a coach with a quirky style but who is getting the job done. Yes, McCarney was an understudy of Hayden Fry, but does that matter to today's kids?

A lot of schools (yes, I'm making a generalization) in Texas are running the spread. Kids love the spread. Even TCU completely changed their offensive philosophy and it's paid dividends this year, thanks to Sonny Cumbie (a Leach disciple).

I know this post is a mismash of crap, but I just think we don't embrace innovation enough at UNT. Whether it's creative scheduling, fan promotions, or even how we recruit students, we must think outside the box- hire the quirky. Hire a young guy, who might leave us in a few years (a la Clint Bowen), promote something different, I'm tired of being good ole UNT, where we are "Above the rest for thousands less"- aim more for Texas's tagline.

I'd buy that if we were a really good academic institution. Or anywhere near Tier One Status. Or if we had an actual plan to become a Tier One academic powerhouse... Or if UT and A&M weren't already doing both academics and athletics quite well. Or if UH wasn't working towards achieving both (with much greater success than us).

So... I don't know what the admin at this school wants. But I know they approved spending a boatload on athletic buildings, a stadium, and the *alleged* addition of another program in baseball.

I think they just waited too long.

But I don't believe academics and athletics are mutually exclusive. And I think Dr Pohl understood that quite well.

[Harry]

The only school in Texas that can make this type of complaint is Rice. The acceptance rate at the school is at an all-time low, 14 percent. Somehow, they still get the recruits in though...

The last three coaches we've had haven't been innovators. Dodge was in HS, but never adapted to the college game. (His style was successful in HS because kids played it starting in 6th grade), Dickey wasn't an innovator, and McCarney, while I guess he's a great motivator, isn't an innovator. He's a retread. Yes, he has a chip on his shoulder, but has he learned anything since his Iowa State tenure?

All of us on this board are desperate for success at UNT, whether they be in bball, fball or academics (I for one would like to see more money towards building our business school and journalism programs). To do this, we need to hire those who will break the mold. I wouldn't mind searching the lower ranks for a coach with a quirky style but who is getting the job done. Yes, McCarney was an understudy of Hayden Fry, but does that matter to today's kids?

A lot of schools (yes, I'm making a generalization) in Texas are running the spread. Kids love the spread. Even TCU completely changed their offensive philosophy and it's paid dividends this year, thanks to Sonny Cumbie (a Leach disciple).

I know this post is a mismash of crap, but I just think we don't embrace innovation enough at UNT. Whether it's creative scheduling, fan promotions, or even how we recruit students, we must think outside the box- hire the quirky. Hire a young guy, who might leave us in a few years (a la Clint Bowen), promote something different, I'm tired of being good ole UNT, where we are "Above the rest for thousands less"- aim more for Texas's tagline.

Really solid post MeanJew and it hits the nail on the head on several fronts.

I get real frustrated when fans come on here and call out posters and this website for criticizing the results of this season and questioning WHY??

Are we supposed to sit back and just say hey we suck but it's ok because as a good fan we shouldn't ever criticize or question anything just accept it and move on...or worse pretend like everything is A OK...look at our record, look at the teams we have lost to and it becomes very clear they are not doing something.

I agree that some go to extremes but such is the nature of the intranet and what it encompasses. The vast majority of fans on this site give a shit and show up to games and buy season tickets etc...

But back to your point -- what our fanbase needs it HOPE --- What we DON'T need is to hear how hard it is here or this and that etc.. we need to believe that things are getting better as they should be. We have a great school, we have a better conference and we have better facilities than we have every had in our history.

If we are struggling in our offensive and defensive philosophy then damit, let's adjust. If we aren't able to recruit the right type of athlete then let's try a different strategy.

I am a big Mac fan and I think this guy has done a terrific job. Anyone asking for him to step down is insane. We better hope that he is here for a long time to come because who knows what the next hire will bring. There comes a time when you have to adjust your strategy and this is one of those times.

I think most of our fans are reasonable enough to understand you will from time to time have a down year and this appears to be one of those. What is missing is what are we doing to try and build for the future? You play McNulty because you think he gives us the best chance to win but what chance does it give our program to get better over the long term? You keep Lemon at tackle when you know he belongs at guard -- and a young tackle that could use the experience to help us next year sits on the bench... you look at the lines for Southern Miss towering over our players and this is a program that was at the ROCK bottom of D-I but yet they somehow managed to get bigger and faster linemen than did we. I read yesterday that their best defensive lineman didn't even make the trip to Denton due to injury...

If there is a perception about things at North Texas that is reflecting negatively then let's address it! We are in the best hotbed of talent of any team in the C-USA West... there is NO reason we shouldn't be able to do a better job of identifying and recruiting players. Will there be some hits and misses along the way sure there will.

Sorry to vent, but for many of us trying to get this program to the point of relevance -- this season has been a big kick in the groin. gmg

[untjim1995]

Really solid post MeanJew and it hits the nail on the head on several fronts.

I get real frustrated when fans come on here and call out posters and this website for criticizing the results of this season and questioning WHY??

Are we supposed to sit back and just say hey we suck but it's ok because as a good fan we shouldn't ever criticize or question anything just accept it and move on...or worse pretend like everything is A OK...look at our record, look at the teams we have lost to and it becomes very clear they are not doing something.

I agree that some go to extremes but such is the nature of the intranet and what it encompasses. The vast majority of fans on this site give a shit and show up to games and buy season tickets etc...

But back to your point -- what our fanbase needs it HOPE --- What we DON'T need is to hear how hard it is here or this and that etc.. we need to believe that things are getting better as they should be. We have a great school, we have a better conference and we have better facilities than we have every had in our history.

If we are struggling in our offensive and defensive philosophy then damit, let's adjust. If we aren't able to recruit the right type of athlete then let's try a different strategy.

I am a big Mac fan and I think this guy has done a terrific job. Anyone asking for him to step down is insane. We better hope that he is here for a long time to come because who knows what the next hire will bring. There comes a time when you have to adjust your strategy and this is one of those times.

I think most of our fans are reasonable enough to understand you will from time to time have a down year and this appears to be one of those. What is missing is what are we doing to try and build for the future? You play McNulty because you think he gives us the best chance to win but what chance does it give our program to get better over the long term? You keep Lemon at tackle when you know he belongs at guard -- and a young tackle that could use the experience to help us next year sits on the bench... you look at the lines for Southern Miss towering over our players and this is a program that was at the ROCK bottom of D-I but yet they somehow managed to get bigger and faster linemen than did we. I read yesterday that their best defensive lineman didn't even make the trip to Denton due to injury...

If there is a perception about things at North Texas that is reflecting negatively then let's address it! We are in the best hotbed of talent of any team in the C-USA West... there is NO reason we shouldn't be able to do a better job of identifying and recruiting players. Will there be some hits and misses along the way sure there will.

Sorry to vent, but for many of us trying to get this program to the point of relevance -- this season has been a big kick in the groin. gmg

I completely agree. Coach Mac has done a very good job here in at least rebuilding us up from the ashes. And it doesn't really matter what any of us think anyway about him, since he just singend a new extension, he ain't going anywhere anytime soon--unless he decieds to leave or his health requires him to leave. He isn't getting bought out by this place, nor, at this point, should that even be up for discussion. Inr eality, the buyout we need to save for is in basketball, but that probably won't happen until after this year because that is when it becomes affordable. If memory serves me, Coach Mac got a five-year extension (I can't remember exactly). If so, he isn't getting bought out anytime until AT Least that 4th year is over, so around 2018 at the earliest. So that doesn't even need to be considered here, knowing the frugality of the school on atheltic expenditures compared to others. Plus, right or worng, he does deserve the opportunity to get this thing built back up from where 2013 ended. He brought more attention to UNT Football in 2013 than we have received by the Metroplex in arguably our history, with the 40k that witnessed our HoD Bowl victory.

But the reality is that his recruiting has sucked--just as it pretty well has every year since we moved up to FBS. At some point, you have to ask yourself why recruiting can just be that bad 20 years after you move up to FBS and go through 4 different (in every imagianable way) head coaches. The only commonality amongst all 4 head coaches is they were recruiting to play football here. Simon was recruiuting to come play I-A football and get playing time right away. Dickey was recruiuting--stealthily--to get playing time and that we were finally in a conference setup that we could win in and go to bowls. Dodge was recruiting on his SLC legacy and his offense, as well as plans to build a new stadium. And now Mac has had the oppportunity to recruit on a new stadium, new conference, and a bowl winning season. And yet nothing ever really improves that much on the recruiting front. So, to me, the factor that easily comes to mind is the fact that the reputation here for the last 30 years has been about not caring enough (or at all) about athletics. I don't really see how anything else can really stand out as to why recruiting here just stinks year in and year out.

[Ben Gooding]

Acceptance standards at a given university can be relaxed for athletes to allow acceptance. I am not sure if Rice does this, but with their recent success I would assume that they do. So the 14% acceptance rate can be very misleading. There are several reasons why we can't recruit at a high level here and it starts with going after too many DFW/surrounding burb athletes.