The perfect UNT QB

[casual fan]

Since we have disagreements over UNT QBs, how about a composite.

1. Arm strength Dajon Williams

2. Foot speed Ryle Dodge

3. Ball management Scott Hall

4. Physical toughness Giovanni Vizza

5. Mental toughness Derek Thompson

6. Most savvy Steve Ramsey

OK Coach Frankenstein, make your own list.

[golfingomez]

[meangreanmick]

Since we have disagreements over UNT QBs, how about a composite.

1. Arm strength Dajon Williams

2. Foot speed Ryle Dodge

3. Ball management Scott Hall

4. Physical toughness Giovanni Vizza

5. Mental toughness Derek Thompson

6. Most savvy Steve Ramsey

OK Coach Frankenstein, make your own list.

I think we would have to debate your list there. First, I think Mitch Maher beat Dajon on arm strength and accuracy (which you don't have). I would also heavily debate you on toughness, no way Vizza is physically tougher than DT.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Ball Management:

Derek Thompson - 34 interceptions thrown in 1,055 attempts = 1 interception thrown for every 31 attempts

Scott Hall - 26 interceptions thrown in 763 attempts = 1 interception thrown for every 29 attempts

Riley Dodge - 20 in 481 attempts = 1 for every 24 attempts

Giovanni Vizza - 36 in 876 attempts = 1 for every 24 attempts

Dajon Williams - 4 in 82 attempts = 1 in every 20 attempts

Steve Ramsey - 67 in 1,015 attempts = 1 for every 15 attempts

So...

...Thompson, still the best of any on your list at taking care of the ball.

Amazing. The best Division I/FBS quarterback we ever had, and many of his own fellow UNT alumni still don't acknowledge his greatness.

If anything, more than the bitching by the fans, this should turn off kids to coming here: set records, win a bowl game...have the fans look past you to lesser quarterbacks that came before.

[Mean Green 93-98]

First, I think Mitch Maher beat Dajon on arm strength and accuracy (which you don't have).

I really don't think so. As far as innate ability, I think Dajon has a stronger and more accurate arm than Mitch, and that's saying something. That said, Mitch made the big-time throws when it counted. That's something I have not really seen since he departed for the CFL/DTS (although Vizza probably would have gotten there had he stuck around). So for "The Perfect UNT QB" . . .

7. Big-time throws Mitch Maher

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I think we would have to debate your list there. First, I think Mitch Maher beat Dajon on arm strength and accuracy (which you don't have). I would also heavily debate you on toughness, no way Vizza is physically tougher than DT.

Vizza took a hell of a beating because of Dodge's refusal those first two years to use a tight end or back to block much, if at all. It'd be tough to say who could have taken the type of beating Vizza did.

Although, it is without question that Thompson was tougher than boot leather.

[FirefightnRick]

Meager was thrown to the wolves and got the hell beat out of him, so did Vizza. But Hall played the '01 season with half a meniscus in one knee. Thompson bounced back from a broken femur. Riley Dodge finished his last season with his left hand in a cast and nerve damage in his right elbow after recovering from a broken arm from the previous season.

It's a toss up on toughness between those 5.

Scott Davis had the strongest arm of all the QB's I've seen thus far. Many recievers couldnt hold his passes at first.

Rick

Edited October 15, 2014 by FirefightnRick

[Cerebus]

Ball Management: 34*37

Derek Thompson - 34 interceptions thrown in 1,055 attempts = 1 interception thrown for every 31 attempts

Scott Hall - 26 interceptions thrown in 763 attempts = 1 interception thrown for every 29 attempts

You have gone full troll. Int/Att is a terrible stat that no one uses to compare QB's because it is so warped by system. Of course DT is going to have more attempts between ints. He played in a short pass / bubble screen heavy system , Hall threw medium and long routes. Interesting you don't look at TD/ATT:

Hall: 1 TD for every 15 Att

DT: 1 TD for every 25 Att

Riley: 1 TD for every 24 Att

Dajon: 1 TD for every 11 Att

Vizza: 1 TD for every 16 Att

Ramsey: 1 TD for every 14 Att

Oh now, now your stupid method proves that DT is a terrible QB!?

The tried and true way to best compare QB's is TD/INT ratio. Since hall destroys DT at this I see why you go to great lengths to avoid it.

ETA: And before everyone forgets, I think DT is a controversial UNT HOFer, but he deserves to be in. Hall is a no doubt sure fire 1st ballot HOFer.

There is a difference.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Cerebus

[UNT90]

You have gone full troll. Int/Att is a terrible stat that no one uses to compare QB's because it is so warped by system. Of course DT is going to have more attempts between ints. He played in a short pass / bubble screen heavy system , Hall threw medium and long routes. Interesting you don't look at TD/ATT:

Hall: 1 TD for every 15 Att

DT: 1 TD for every 25 Att

Riley: 1 TD for every 24 Att

Dajon: 1 TD for every 11 Att

Vizza: 1 TD for every 16 Att

Ramsey: 1 TD for every 14 Att

Oh now, now your stupid method proves that DT is a terrible QB!?

The tried and true way to best compare QB's is TD/INT ratio. Since hall destroys DT at this I see why you go to great lengths to avoid it.

ETA: And before everyone forgets, I think DT is a controversial UNT HOFer, but he deserves to be in. Hall is a no doubt sure fire 1st ballot HOFer.

There is a difference.

You can't count the 2 INTs returned for TDs as TD passes for DW.

Just to be clear...

Edited October 15, 2014 by UNT90

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Your analysis doesn't make sense. Ball management is avoidance of turnovers and leading scoring drives, right? Touchdowns can be scored by pass or rush on offense. A touchdown scored by rush counts the same as a touchdown scored via the pass...right?

Thompson led North Texas' offense that set the school record for touchdowns and scoring. When a team's offense scores either a touchdown by rush or a touchdown by pass, they haven't turned the ball over.

Hall was great quarterback for us. We are lucky - Thompson was a bit better, so we have two great quarterbacks in our history. Pity Thompson didn't have the benefit of the defenses on the other side of the ball that Hall did. No telling how much further Thompson would have set himself apart statistically from the rest had he a defense giving him more opportunities throughout his career.

Like Hall, Thompson will be a UNT Hall of Famer...and, rightly, a first ballot one at that.

[Cooley]

"Like Hall, Thompson will be a UNT Hall of Famer...and, rightly, a first ballot one at that."

This is why this program sucks so bad

[Censored by Laurie]

Hall played the '01 season with half a meniscus in one knee.

And most of '03(?) with a torn pec. I remember him much enjoying telling anyone who would listen that he had a sore tit.

"Like Hall, Thompson will be a UNT Hall of Famer...and, rightly, a first ballot one at that."

This is why this program sucks so bad

Spot on.

[greenminer]

Your analysis doesn't make sense. Ball management is avoidance of turnovers and leading scoring drives, right? Touchdowns can be scored by pass or rush on offense. A touchdown scored by rush counts the same as a touchdown scored via the pass...right?

Thompson led North Texas' offense that set the school record for touchdowns and scoring. When a team's offense scores either a touchdown by rush or a touchdown by pass, they haven't turned the ball over.

Hall was great quarterback for us. We are lucky - Thompson was a bit better, so we have two great quarterbacks in our history. Pity Thompson didn't have the benefit of the defenses on the other side of the ball that Hall did. No telling how much further Thompson would have set himself apart statistically from the rest had he a defense giving him more opportunities throughout his career.

Like Hall, Thompson will be a UNT Hall of Famer...and, rightly, a first ballot one at that.

How about points/passing attempt?

[Ben Gooding]

How about Tulane is having an all access show on espnU and we are getting our heads pounded in by the likes of UAB.

[greenminer]

Hall was great quarterback for us. We are lucky - Thompson was a bit better, so we have two great quarterbacks in our history. Pity Thompson didn't have the benefit of the defenses on the other side of the ball that Hall did. No telling how much further Thompson would have set himself apart statistically from the rest had he a defense giving him more opportunities throughout his career.

Would you feel this way about DT minus his senior year? One thing about Hall that distinguishes him from a lot of our other QBs was his 4 year performance.

....one more thought: if you take away all those non-offensive TDs from last year, how do the offensive records stand?

Hall had all those great defenses, but last year took the cake as far as ST and defensive TDs.

[Cerebus]

Hall was great quarterback for us. We are lucky - Thompson was a bit better, so we have two great quarterbacks in our history.

Their junior and senior years Hall threw 27 TD and 9 INT, DT went 30 TD and 27 INT. There is no way to spin that. Even per your stupid INT/ATT ratio:

DT: 1 INT for every 25 ATT

Hall: 1 INT for every 44 ATT

So by your own metric Hall was a MUCH BETTER QB when they were both upperclassmen.

Also Steve Ramsey had 54 starts in the NFL so when mentioning "NT QB Greats" you have to mention him. I've always just stated that Hall is the best QB we have had since the return to 1A. DT is the second best.

BTW "longevity" is one of the reasons that people give people DT credit for, he had 41 starts over five years because of injury. Hall had 48 over five years.

[UNTnewbie]

Until they start attributing interceptions to receivers in regards to tips and bone headed route running, instead of putting those on the QB, the INTTD statistic is completely flawed as are a number of other "QB" passing statistics. I don't care if they've been doing this stat forever, it still does not necessarily give you a true picture of a QB's proficiency which is why the NFL Scouting folk don't even look at this stat unless it is completely lopsided one way or the other.

[Cerebus]

Until they start attributing interceptions to receivers in regards to tips and bone headed route running, instead of putting those on the QB, the INTTD statistic is completely flawed as are a number of other "QB" passing statistics. I don't care if they've been doing this stat forever, it still does not necessarily give you a true picture of a QB's proficiency which is why the NFL Scouting folk don't even look at this stat unless it is completely lopsided one way or the other.

There is no fool proof stat. TD/INT is one of the best when comparing college QBs across eras. No one ever said it was a barometer of future success in the NFL, which is a different game and what NFL scouts are concerned about.

[UNT90]

There is no fool proof stat. TD/INT is one of the best when comparing college QBs across eras. No one ever said it was a barometer of future success in the NFL, which is a different game and what NFL scouts are concerned about.

Says who?

You?

[Travis]

Says who?

You?

It seems to be a pretty standard measurement for most analysts.

[Travis]

Or then what.. should we measure it by bowl games?

All-Conference recognition?

When you consider how little opportunities Hall had, he did a lot with it.

Or maybe we should measure it by who can actually execute a screen pass without a pick 6.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Travis

[UNTnewbie]

There is no fool proof stat. TD/INT is one of the best when comparing college QBs across eras. No one ever said it was a barometer of future success in the NFL, which is a different game and what NFL scouts are concerned about.

In general, TD/INT stats are thrown out by sportscasters and fantasy football geniuses sitting behind a desk or a keyboard, not by anyone that actually grades players for a living whether it be college or NFL.

[UNT90]

Or then what.. should we measure it by bowl games?

All-Conference recognition?

When you consider how little opportunities Hall had, he did a lot with it.

Or maybe we should measure it by who can actually execute a screen pass without a pick 6 after the same screen pass has been ran twice a game the last 8 games (ever since the one time it was successful against LaLa) without success because EVERYBODY knew it was coming.

Fixed.

Horizontal passing games don't work when there is 8 and 9 in the box. Our OC ignored this football fact last year, putting his QB in an aweful position.

[casual fan]

There is no fool proof stat. TD/INT is one of the best when comparing college QBs across eras. No one ever said it was a barometer of future success in the NFL, which is a different game and what NFL scouts are concerned about.

Well.......when comparing QBs across eras, I don't think it works very well.

Steve Ramsey as an example, set the UNT TD record. (69 in 3 years)

He also set the UNT int. record. He would often air it out on 3rd downs.

He might get a long completion or throw a 50 yard int.

A 50 yard int. on 3rd down doesn't hurt since there would have been a 40 yard punt on the next play.

Picks in a short passing game will do you in every time for obvious reasons

[greenminer]

In general, TD/INT stats are thrown out by sportscasters and fantasy football geniuses sitting behind a desk or a keyboard, not by anyone that actually grades players for a living whether it be college or NFL.

That's strange, because *cough* if I were a coach *cough* and player X goes in and throws 3 INTs and 0 TDs, I'm going to start questioning his ability.

Now, there are some cases where mechanics are correctable or a WR runs a wrong route, but we are talking about a career picture, a sum of parts.

(just having fun. I don't think the stat is completely irrelevant to anyone in the profession, but like Cerebus says, you can nitpick any stat)