McCarney’s candid remarks about the situation at UNT

[wardly]

I am tired of our staff using "we are in Big 12 country" as an excuse for poor recruiting. TCU was able to win conference championships in both the WAC and MWC conferences fishing in the same pool that we do. If you think that UNT is so hard to get good players to attend, perhaps you should get out of the way and let someone else have a crack at it. I like coach Mac, but we were looking for a coach when we found him.

[JesseMartin]

I like coach Mac, but we were looking for a coach when we found him.

This is one of the most confusing sentences I've ever read.

[CMJ]

This might be an interesting idea. We have a small stadium but what if we could get a bowl game in Denton? Pretty decent location just north of DFW, nice stadium but limited seating so maybe charge a bitty bit more for tickets and/or not have gigantic-draw-type teams like UT or Michigan so not too terribly many people are turned away? I'm sure it would be a better draw than freaking Idaho in the middle of winter...umm...I hope.

What Boise has that Denton doesn't, is a city that gets behind the Bowl game. It's a pretty big deal there - citizens actually buy tickets and go to when there's no school involved that's reasonably close (like a Nevada or Utah State for example, who bring their own fans). The city is also really good about putting out the red carpet for the involved teams, something I would bet Denton would struggle to do. Hell, the city still keeps that game going despite the fact that BSU hasn't played in it in ages...AND it's in a cold weather city in a medium sized town (ie not somewhere that's a "party" location). The runners of the Humanitarian (now Idaho Potato, but it's always gonna be the Humanitarian to me) Bowl must be among the best Bowl co-ordinators in the country.

[Eagle1855]

His 76-109 career record says otherwise.

Almost all of which came from the other "hardest situation in the country" that goes by the name of Iowa State. And the bulk of those losses came on the front-end of his time there, accounting for 42 of his 109 career losses. In other words, almost 40% of his career losses came from the first 5 seasons at Iowa State -- a program which hadn't had a winning season since 1989 (and hadn't won more than 6 games in a season since 1978).

Here are his first 5 years at Iowa State:

Y1: 3-8

Y2: 2-9

Y3: 1-10

Y4: 3-8

Y5: 4-7

And then in year 6, he landed a 9-3 with a bowl win.

Our 5-7, 4-8, & 9-4 look pretty good, in context of his coaching career. So I'm not sure I care if this is an "off" year -- as long as young guys get snaps, experience, learn from all this and come back next year ready to win.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Eagle1855

[aztecskin]

McCarney is a good coach. Compared to Papa Dodge, he is a *great* coach. Nationally, he is a pretty good-to-average coach. I have no problems with that because it is exactly what we needed. Lord knows I would have loved to have crazy-ass Harbaugh in here, but he would have won a bunch of games (at best) and bolted for a new gig. That would leave us where?

We need a guy to come in and stabilize the program with some good experienced coaching. I don't expect multiple conference titles here but with the new facilities improvements, the location, the conference and a little luck it isn't outside the realm of possibility.

I mostly don't want to be embarrassed by our program.

[LongJim]

Almost all of which came from the other "hardest situation in the country" that goes by the name of Iowa State. And the bulk of those losses came on the front-end of his time there, accounting for 42 of his 109 career losses. In other words, almost 40% of his career losses came from the first 5 seasons at Iowa State -- a program which hadn't had a winning season since 1989 (and hadn't won more than 6 games in a season since 1978).

Here are his first 5 years at Iowa State:

Y1: 3-8

Y2: 2-9

Y3: 1-10

Y4: 3-8

Y5: 4-7

And then in year 6, he landed a 9-3 with a bowl win.

Our 5-7, 4-8, & 9-4 look pretty good, in context of his coaching career. So I'm not sure I care if this is an "off" year -- as long as young guys get snaps, experience, learn from all this and come back next year ready to win.

Brant, you need to post more.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

You cannot compare Iowa State then to UNT now. When McCarney took over, the Big 8 was like today's SEC, and Iowa State was smack at the bottom of it.

In 1995, McCarney's first season at ISU, the Big 8 has half of its schools finish in the Top 10: #1 Nebraska, #5 Florida, #7 Kansas State, and #9 Kansas.

The Big 8 then took on four from the SWC during a time which A&M was at its historic best. The Big 8/12 was a much tougher build than Sun Belt/C-USun Belt.

I'm not saying Dan is perfect. But, you can't just throw down the record during his first few seasons at ISU and compare them to here. Of course he took us to a bowl sooner than he did ISU - the conference competition was the the nth degree tougher.

He was not only battling old Big 8 rivals and new SWC rivals, but state rival Iowa was then still being led by Hayden Fry. So, even the thin recruiting populace that was, is, and always will be Iowa, was that much tougher.

The UAB game stung many of us, and that includes Dan. But, after having a week to digest it, I think it comes down to this: whomever they play at QB, get them to leave the Superman cape in the locker and just throw the ball away or take the sack if no one is open.

This isn't such a tough conference that anyone in it should be losing to anyone else by 35. But, if you have QBs giving away 3-5 TDs...well....

Just stick someone in there - hopefully, Dajon - who can learn to chuck it away or tuck it, and live to fight another down. No freebies.

[JesseMartin]

you can't just throw down the record during his first few seasons at ISU and compare them to here.

I don't think he was comparing it, I thought the point was to rebut the point about his losing record by pointing out that a huge amount of his losses came when ISU was getting its collective ass kicked by a bunch of Top 10 teams in its own conference. This place isn't as tough a turnaround since we're in a weaker conference, but to cite his losing record does require a bit of knowledge as to how that record came about. He knew he'd be behind the 8-ball at Iowa State but took the challenge anyway. His losing record is a testament to the type of jobs he takes - programs that are in a ditch that he digs them out of.

[Eagle1855]

I don't think he was comparing it, I thought the point was to rebut the point about his losing record by pointing out that a huge amount of his losses came when ISU was getting its collective ass kicked by a bunch of Top 10 teams in its own conference. This place isn't as tough a turnaround since we're in a weaker conference, but to cite his losing record does require a bit of knowledge as to how that record came about. He knew he'd be behind the 8-ball at Iowa State but took the challenge anyway. His losing record is a testament to the type of jobs he takes - programs that are in a ditch that he digs them out of.

Exactly this.

Which saves me the trouble of even reading the lengthy tome about the differences between Iowa State and UNT -- which are obvious and vast -- and not in any way the crux of my previous comment.

So thank you.

[meangreenbob]

cogido.

No comment at this time on the football situation other than to say still hoping for the best.

Odus Mitchell, eh? You go back further than me. We're old farts.

[GRN-WHT]

I guess it depends on your definition of "very good." I don't consider sub-.500 coaches to be "very good", no matter how they got there. "Very good" coaches don't wind up as position coaches after they get fired.

His losing record is a testament to the type of jobs he takes - programs that are in a ditch that he digs them out of.

Or a testament to the type of job he can get. What other programs have been beating down his door?

[Ben Gooding]

Year 6 he did well then did a year or 2 with 7 wins and fell off again. What he did at Iowa State is what most coaches do at Iowa State, lose.

[CMJ]

Year 6 he did well then did a year or 2 with 7 wins and fell off again. What he did at Iowa State is what most coaches do at Iowa State, lose.

One could also say that he did about as well there as anyone else. I'm not sure Nick Saban would win big at Iowa state (he might get them to 7-8 wins with an occasional season with 9). That is a tough job.

[Ben Gooding]

Nick Saban would have Iowa State as big12 champs by at the most year 3. Players would flock to that program bc they know that it would get turned into a football factory for the NFL in the matter of months. Iowa State would jump off the deep end and pour whatever money they possibly could to give Saban whatever resources he demands.

[greenminer]

Nick Saban would have Iowa State as big12 champs by at the most year 3. Players would flock to that program bc they know that it would get turned into a football factory for the NFL in the matter of months. Iowa State would jump off the deep end and pour whatever money they possibly could to give Saban whatever resources he demands.

ISU was McCarney's first HC job. If he had 3 BCS titles in 4 years before landing that gig, players would likely flock to him too.

Saban's a good coach. His first HC gig was a 1 year stint at Toledo that went really really well (9 wins). He then bolted for a DC position in the NFL.

His first real HC gig - meaning, in a P5 conference - was when he took Michigan State up a notch in the mid-nineties. But it wasn't immediate: his first 4 years he won 6 games thrice and 7 games once. Year 5 was his 9-win ticket prior to bolting to the LSU spotlight.

I never cared for Saban's early hopscotch, and even to this day he seems to indirectly feed rumors (like the Texas gig), but he is an unbelievable motivator and public speaker.

[UNT90]

Almost all of which came from the other "hardest situation in the country" that goes by the name of Iowa State. And the bulk of those losses came on the front-end of his time there, accounting for 42 of his 109 career losses. In other words, almost 40% of his career losses came from the first 5 seasons at Iowa State -- a program which hadn't had a winning season since 1989 (and hadn't won more than 6 games in a season since 1978).

Here are his first 5 years at Iowa State:

Y1: 3-8

Y2: 2-9

Y3: 1-10

Y4: 3-8

Y5: 4-7

And then in year 6, he landed a 9-3 with a bowl win.

Our 5-7, 4-8, & 9-4 look pretty good, in context of his coaching career. So I'm not sure I care if this is an "off" year -- as long as young guys get snaps, experience, learn from all this and come back next year ready to win.

Keep in mind Mac's last 4 years at Iowa St. were 2-10, 7-5 (bowl loss), 7-5 (bowl loss), and 4-8.

Mac's best conference record was 5-3, and that was accomplished only one year. Every other conference record was .500 or below. Mac posted 1-7 and 2-8 records in conference in 2 of his last 4 years at Iowa St. That to go along with four 1-7 conference records to start his Iowa St. career, four 4-4 conference records (2 in his last 4 years), and one lone 5-3 conference record.

Mac had a 9-3 overall record in 2000, was 7-5 in 2001, 2004, and 2005, and was a weird 7-7 in 2002. Everything else (7 years) was 4 wins or less.

Mac coached in Ames for 11 years and took Iowa St to 5 bowl games, winning 2.

Mac's last season was 2006. In the eight seasons since 2006, Iowa St has gone to bowl games in 2009 (7-6 with a bowl win), 2011 (6-7 with a bowl loss), and 2012 (6-7 with a bowl loss). Iowa St.'s best conference record during that time was 3-5. They are currently 2-4 and aren't looking like a bowl team with the games they have left. So three bowls in 8 years since Mac.

Overall, Iowa St. was 3-9 (2-6) in 2007, 2-10 (0-8) in 2008, 7-6 (3-5) in 2009, 5-7 (3-5) in 2010, 6-7 (3-6) in 2011, 6-7 (3-6) in 2012, and 3-9 (2-7) in 2013.

I wonder if Mac left the slowest, smallest team in the Big 12 when he left Iowa St. I'm sure that's what the new coach would have said.

So, basically outside of 2000, Iowa St. has been 1 1/2 game worse in conference than they were in Mac's good years, yet maybe a little better or the same as they were in Mac's bad years.

This post is just meant to give the complete picture of what Mac did at Iowa St. and how it compared to what was done after he left, not before.

Anyone want to take on that Herculean task, be my guest.

Edited October 17, 2014 by UNT90

[Ben Gooding]

So what stance are you taking? Kind of a double sided post.

[greenminer]

So what stance are you taking? Kind of a double sided post.

1) Nick is a damn fine coach.

2) ISU is tough. No way to tell if pre-LSU Saban would have done well.

It's a bit of an empty conversation: there's just no way to tell. The only thing we know is that Mac has amazing skins on the wall as an assistant/coordinator, but has elected as a HC to do really really tough gigs, and it shows in his overall HC record.

[Ben Gooding]

I understood your stance. I was asking 90.

[Rudy]

Look, regardless if Mac's comments were accurate or not, those are the kind of things you keep tucked away. It serves NO purpose to say how tough of a situation it is.

[UNT90]

So what stance are you taking? Kind of a double sided post.

It's kinda a double sided record.

[VideoEagle]

Nick Saban would have Iowa State as big12 champs by at the most year 3. Players would flock to that program bc they know that it would get turned into a football factory for the NFL in the matter of months. Iowa State would jump off the deep end and pour whatever money they possibly could to give Saban whatever resources he demands.

Wrong!

Jimmy Johnson coached at both Oklahoma State and Miami. While at OSU, he couldn't recruit the best players but he could at The U. While at OSU, he couldn't beat OU. While at Miami he did. Same coach, mostly the same staff but at two different schools.

[Ben Gooding]

Ok? 80's football is not quite the same as football in 2014. Also, JJ is not Nick Saban.

[Eagle1855]

Keep in mind Mac's last 4 years at Iowa St. were 2-10, 7-5 (bowl loss), 7-5 (bowl loss), and 4-8.

Which still has nothing to do with the fact that 38.5% of the man's career losses as a head coach came from the first years of taking over a program that -- on its very best of days -- was entirely mediocre. (Again, they hadn't won more than 6 games in a season since 1978 -- over a decade and a half before he took over the program.)

I'm not saying the guy is the Second Coming of Touchdown Jesus. But I also don't think citing his career winning percentage as evidence for his ability (or inability) to coach is entirely fair.

If he had amassed that record at several different schools over that time, I might think differently.

Another fun fact: at both UNT and Iowa State, the guy managed to tie each school's all-time record for number of wins in a season. Which might be a coincidence, but it's in an interesting tid bit all the same (at least, it is to me).

Edited October 17, 2014 by Eagle1855

[Ben Gooding]

I could cite coach after coach that signed on with historically bad programs and turned the program around. I dont think it would do any good because our fan base is OK with bad to mediocre football.