MGB: Five thoughts

[Brett Vito]

MGB:

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2014/10/unt-uab-five-quick-thoughts.html/

[GrandGreen]

After UAB just demolished NT, Vito makes the point that NT is a hard place to recruit to. Why? Does UAB have better facilities or support?

It is funny how places are hard to recruit to until someone does. No one expects NT to recruit against most p5 schools, but if Mac can't recruit effectively against the G5 schools than NT made a very bad coaching decision.

[eulessismore]

After UAB just demolished NT, Vito makes the point that NT is a hard place to recruit to. Why? Does UAB have better facilities or support?

It is funny how places are hard to recruit to until someone does. No one expects NT to recruit against most p5 schools, but if Mac can't recruit effectively against the G5 schools than NT made a very bad coaching decision.

I was just watching this game at the Bottlecap Alley in Grapevine and thinking "is this the place people were saying might have to give up football any year now and they play that much better than us"? I think it is a reasonable question to ask what they have that we don't.

Edited October 12, 2014 by eulessismore

[FirefightnRick]

The argument is being made that UNT is paying for some lackluster recruiting the last couple of years. One can definitely make that case, but UNT has been really hard to recruit to for years.

Nope. Unless your willing to accept the arguement that Dodge knew what he was doing and was better at recruiting than this current group is, then this is simply a poor excuse and nothing more.

54 players on UAB's roster come from the state of Alabama. 20 others come from Georgia including their leading tackler today in Jay Davis.

That's 70 percent of UAB's roster coming straight out of the heart of SEC country where they recruit against the monsters of college football. They seem to be getting it done in a much more difficult situation than we face, and yet UAB was still able to turn over a rock in California to find their QB Cody Clements who torched us for 316 yards and 2 TD's.

Stop accepting excuses people.

Rick

Edited October 12, 2014 by FirefightnRick

[GoMeanGreen1999]

After UAB just demolished NT, Vito makes the point that NT is a hard place to recruit to. Why? Does UAB have better facilities or support?

It is funny how places are hard to recruit to until someone does. No one expects NT to recruit against most p5 schools, but if Mac can't recruit effectively against the G5 schools than NT made a very bad coaching decision.

Completely Agree.

[FirefightnRick]

After UAB just demolished NT, Vito makes the point that NT is a hard place to recruit to. Why? Does UAB have better facilities or support?

It is funny how places are hard to recruit to until someone does. No one expects NT to recruit against most p5 schools, but if Mac can't recruit effectively against the G5 schools than NT made a very bad coaching decision.

Not even close. From another thread I posted:

Visit Birmingham some time and you'll understand. Plus their program has been extremely, extremely poor for many years. Last year their school leaders approved money to build them a new on campus stadium to help them get up off the floor but the Alabama State Board of Regents which is run by Alabama and Auburn faithful shot it down citing some horseshit excuse that I can't remmeber what it was. Just remember thinking "God those poor bastards can't win for losing". Well, now they got a coach that's convinced the team that the losing is over no matter how lousy their situation is.

Rick

[All About UNT]

Not even close. From another thread I posted:

Rick

First year coach and first year qb. All I needed to hear

[casual fan]

5 things I took away from this game:

1. Acid reflux

2. Self-loathing

3. Poor self esteem

4. Insomnia

5. A hangover

[emmitt01]

Not even close. From another thread I posted:

Rick

We both know what Birmingham looks like late at night when you make a wrong turn off the freeway.

[FirefightnRick]

We both know what Birmingham looks like late at night when you make a wrong turn off the freeway.

Yes we do sir. I've gone through there 4 times since and found a loop to the south you can take now. I recommend it to anyone who drives to Atlanta, especially if you get to Birmingham near a rush hour.

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

First year coach and first year qb. All I needed to hear

Agree.

Rick

[Got5onIt]

I thing Brett hit on all his points.

I'm a huge Mac fan but the dropoff we've seen is disappointing and has to be placed at his doorstep...

[untjim1995]

I know that many on here don't think this, but I do think Vito is right. I think we are seeing that recruiting here is a hard sell to Texas kids. All that their Texas HS coaches and their parents ahve known about UNT Football since the 80s is that we are losers. Plus, we are the school that allowed football to drop down to i-aa for 12 years. And when we moved back up, we were in the dregs of college football for so long and played at a facility that was way worse than any 4A high school in front of very few people. Even with Apogee as our home now and having a legitimate college coach in charge, we still don't play many teams that draw big crowds. We jump and down about a 25k crowd, but we sit in the 4th largest market in the country. I realize UAB is very poor and play in a dilapidated stadium, but their fans and alumni never saw them drop down to a lower level of football. Plus, in the southern states, where college football is way bigger than pro football, and where poverty is way higher than it is in other parts of the country, a scholarship offer to a school like UAB, Troy, USM, ULaLa, etc...is going to be rewarded by the kids in that state, where options are not nearly as high as they are in Texas.

To me, the easiest FBS school in the entire country to recruit against is North Texas. All we are known for is apathy, being an alternative school in many ways, looked at as a commuter school still, and are just known as the team that is a bought win against the P5 schools. I'm not even counting the P5 schools in the area. SMU and Rice sell their private education and academic standing, plus the parents know they are well-thought of by the majority of parents. If you are UTEP, UTSA, or Texas State, you are saying that we will get better support in attendance and we have better opponents that will come here and play. In the last two years alone, OU, and Tech have played in El Paso. Tech and Navy have played in San Marcos. Okie State and Arizona have played in the Alamodome. We have played Texas Southern, Idaho, Ball State, SMU, and Nicholls State in Denton.

I truly believe this, but if a guy like Dan McCarney, who is amongst the most positive and upbeat people you will ever meet, and has a track record of building a winner from the ground up, cannot win recruiting battles, then you really have to ask yourself if its the staff or the university. I'm not saying his coaching isn't part of it, because that wouldn't be fair. And, yes, you can find examples of Jamario Thomas, Brandon Kennedy, Gio Vizza, Riley Dodge, and others who were highly ranked out of high school and came here as a freshman, but they are clearly the exception to the rule. Otherwise, we wouldn't have such low ranked classes no matter who is the coach. Whether it was Dickey, Dodge, or McCarney, our classes are almost always in the 100s when they get graded against others. We were always told to wait until we get a more exciting coach in here or wait until we build a winner or wait until we get a brand new stadium and join a better conference, that will change everything. I've seen us win the SBC 4 times, I've seen us hire the top HS coach in the state and watched him bring his highly ranked son here to play QB, I've seen us build a new stadium, I've seen us join a new conference, and I've seen us build back up from the ashes to win a bowl game in front of 40k fans on New Years Day. And the recruiting never changes...

To me, the only way you win at this school is to have upper classmen as the majority of your starters who have been developed into something. I think about our bowl teams in 2002, 2003, and 2013. Upperclassmen at key positions for the most part. Otherwise, you go back to years like we have seen this year. Until recruits want to come here--and what QB wants to come and hand off most downs here when almost every single Texas HS runs the spread, you are just going to have develop the talent. The hardest part about that as a fan is that you get a lot of blowouts like we got this past weekend while you wait for things to get better.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I know that many on here don't think this, but I do think Vito is right. I think we are seeing that recruiting here is a hard sell to Texas kids. All that their Texas HS coaches and their parents ahve known about UNT Football since the 80s is that we are losers. Plus, we are the school that allowed football to drop down to i-aa for 12 years. And when we moved back up, we were in the dregs of college football for so long and played at a facility that was way worse than any 4A high school in front of very few people. Even with Apogee as our home now and having a legitimate college coach in charge, we still don't play many teams that draw big crowds. We jump and down about a 25k crowd, but we sit in the 4th largest market in the country. I realize UAB is very poor and play in a dilapidated stadium, but their fans and alumni never saw them drop down to a lower level of football. Plus, in the southern states, where college football is way bigger than pro football, and where poverty is way higher than it is in other parts of the country, a scholarship offer to a school like UAB, Troy, USM, ULaLa, etc...is going to be rewarded by the kids in that state, where options are not nearly as high as they are in Texas.

To me, the easiest FBS school in the entire country to recruit against is North Texas. All we are known for is apathy, being an alternative school in many ways, looked at as a commuter school still, and are just known as the team that is a bought win against the P5 schools. I'm not even counting the P5 schools in the area. SMU and Rice sell their private education and academic standing, plus the parents know they are well-thought of by the majority of parents. If you are UTEP, UTSA, or Texas State, you are saying that we will get better support in attendance and we have better opponents that will come here and play. In the last two years alone, OU, and Tech have played in El Paso. Tech and Navy have played in San Marcos. Okie State and Arizona have played in the Alamodome. We have played Texas Southern, Idaho, Ball State, SMU, and Nicholls State in Denton.

I truly believe this, but if a guy like Dan McCarney, who is amongst the most positive and upbeat people you will ever meet, and has a track record of building a winner from the ground up, cannot win recruiting battles, then you really have to ask yourself if its the staff or the university. I'm not saying his coaching isn't part of it, because that wouldn't be fair. And, yes, you can find examples of Jamario Thomas, Brandon Kennedy, Gio Vizza, Riley Dodge, and others who were highly ranked out of high school and came here as a freshman, but they are clearly the exception to the rule. Otherwise, we wouldn't have such low ranked classes no matter who is the coach. Whether it was Dickey, Dodge, or McCarney, our classes are almost always in the 100s when they get graded against others. We were always told to wait until we get a more exciting coach in here or wait until we build a winner or wait until we get a brand new stadium and join a better conference, that will change everything. I've seen us win the SBC 4 times, I've seen us hire the top HS coach in the state and watched him bring his highly ranked son here to play QB, I've seen us build a new stadium, I've seen us join a new conference, and I've seen us build back up from the ashes to win a bowl game in front of 40k fans on New Years Day. And the recruiting never changes...

To me, the only way you win at this school is to have upper classmen as the majority of your starters who have been developed into something. I think about our bowl teams in 2002, 2003, and 2013. Upperclassmen at key positions for the most part. Otherwise, you go back to years like we have seen this year. Until recruits want to come here--and what QB wants to come and hand off most downs here when almost every single Texas HS runs the spread, you are just going to have develop the talent. The hardest part about that as a fan is that you get a lot of blowouts like we got this past weekend while you wait for things to get better.

Yes.

[agw0038]

I know that many on here don't think this, but I do think Vito is right. I think we are seeing that recruiting here is a hard sell to Texas kids. All that their Texas HS coaches and their parents ahve known about UNT Football since the 80s is that we are losers. Plus, we are the school that allowed football to drop down to i-aa for 12 years. And when we moved back up, we were in the dregs of college football for so long and played at a facility that was way worse than any 4A high school in front of very few people. Even with Apogee as our home now and having a legitimate college coach in charge, we still don't play many teams that draw big crowds. We jump and down about a 25k crowd, but we sit in the 4th largest market in the country. I realize UAB is very poor and play in a dilapidated stadium, but their fans and alumni never saw them drop down to a lower level of football. Plus, in the southern states, where college football is way bigger than pro football, and where poverty is way higher than it is in other parts of the country, a scholarship offer to a school like UAB, Troy, USM, ULaLa, etc...is going to be rewarded by the kids in that state, where options are not nearly as high as they are in Texas.

To me, the easiest FBS school in the entire country to recruit against is North Texas. All we are known for is apathy, being an alternative school in many ways, looked at as a commuter school still, and are just known as the team that is a bought win against the P5 schools. I'm not even counting the P5 schools in the area. SMU and Rice sell their private education and academic standing, plus the parents know they are well-thought of by the majority of parents. If you are UTEP, UTSA, or Texas State, you are saying that we will get better support in attendance and we have better opponents that will come here and play. In the last two years alone, OU, and Tech have played in El Paso. Tech and Navy have played in San Marcos. Okie State and Arizona have played in the Alamodome. We have played Texas Southern, Idaho, Ball State, SMU, and Nicholls State in Denton.

I truly believe this, but if a guy like Dan McCarney, who is amongst the most positive and upbeat people you will ever meet, and has a track record of building a winner from the ground up, cannot win recruiting battles, then you really have to ask yourself if its the staff or the university. I'm not saying his coaching isn't part of it, because that wouldn't be fair. And, yes, you can find examples of Jamario Thomas, Brandon Kennedy, Gio Vizza, Riley Dodge, and others who were highly ranked out of high school and came here as a freshman, but they are clearly the exception to the rule. Otherwise, we wouldn't have such low ranked classes no matter who is the coach. Whether it was Dickey, Dodge, or McCarney, our classes are almost always in the 100s when they get graded against others. We were always told to wait until we get a more exciting coach in here or wait until we build a winner or wait until we get a brand new stadium and join a better conference, that will change everything. I've seen us win the SBC 4 times, I've seen us hire the top HS coach in the state and watched him bring his highly ranked son here to play QB, I've seen us build a new stadium, I've seen us join a new conference, and I've seen us build back up from the ashes to win a bowl game in front of 40k fans on New Years Day. And the recruiting never changes...

To me, the only way you win at this school is to have upper classmen as the majority of your starters who have been developed into something. I think about our bowl teams in 2002, 2003, and 2013. Upperclassmen at key positions for the most part. Otherwise, you go back to years like we have seen this year. Until recruits want to come here--and what QB wants to come and hand off most downs here when almost every single Texas HS runs the spread, you are just going to have develop the talent. The hardest part about that as a fan is that you get a lot of blowouts like we got this past weekend while you wait for things to get better.

Amen.

[Got5onIt]

I know that many on here don't think this, but I do think Vito is right. I think we are seeing that recruiting here is a hard sell to Texas kids. All that their Texas HS coaches and their parents ahve known about UNT Football since the 80s is that we are losers. Plus, we are the school that allowed football to drop down to i-aa for 12 years. And when we moved back up, we were in the dregs of college football for so long and played at a facility that was way worse than any 4A high school in front of very few people. Even with Apogee as our home now and having a legitimate college coach in charge, we still don't play many teams that draw big crowds. We jump and down about a 25k crowd, but we sit in the 4th largest market in the country. I realize UAB is very poor and play in a dilapidated stadium, but their fans and alumni never saw them drop down to a lower level of football. Plus, in the southern states, where college football is way bigger than pro football, and where poverty is way higher than it is in other parts of the country, a scholarship offer to a school like UAB, Troy, USM, ULaLa, etc...is going to be rewarded by the kids in that state, where options are not nearly as high as they are in Texas.

To me, the easiest FBS school in the entire country to recruit against is North Texas. All we are known for is apathy, being an alternative school in many ways, looked at as a commuter school still, and are just known as the team that is a bought win against the P5 schools. I'm not even counting the P5 schools in the area. SMU and Rice sell their private education and academic standing, plus the parents know they are well-thought of by the majority of parents. If you are UTEP, UTSA, or Texas State, you are saying that we will get better support in attendance and we have better opponents that will come here and play. In the last two years alone, OU, and Tech have played in El Paso. Tech and Navy have played in San Marcos. Okie State and Arizona have played in the Alamodome. We have played Texas Southern, Idaho, Ball State, SMU, and Nicholls State in Denton.

I truly believe this, but if a guy like Dan McCarney, who is amongst the most positive and upbeat people you will ever meet, and has a track record of building a winner from the ground up, cannot win recruiting battles, then you really have to ask yourself if its the staff or the university. I'm not saying his coaching isn't part of it, because that wouldn't be fair. And, yes, you can find examples of Jamario Thomas, Brandon Kennedy, Gio Vizza, Riley Dodge, and others who were highly ranked out of high school and came here as a freshman, but they are clearly the exception to the rule. Otherwise, we wouldn't have such low ranked classes no matter who is the coach. Whether it was Dickey, Dodge, or McCarney, our classes are almost always in the 100s when they get graded against others. We were always told to wait until we get a more exciting coach in here or wait until we build a winner or wait until we get a brand new stadium and join a better conference, that will change everything. I've seen us win the SBC 4 times, I've seen us hire the top HS coach in the state and watched him bring his highly ranked son here to play QB, I've seen us build a new stadium, I've seen us join a new conference, and I've seen us build back up from the ashes to win a bowl game in front of 40k fans on New Years Day. And the recruiting never changes...

To me, the only way you win at this school is to have upper classmen as the majority of your starters who have been developed into something. I think about our bowl teams in 2002, 2003, and 2013. Upperclassmen at key positions for the most part. Otherwise, you go back to years like we have seen this year. Until recruits want to come here--and what QB wants to come and hand off most downs here when almost every single Texas HS runs the spread, you are just going to have develop the talent. The hardest part about that as a fan is that you get a lot of blowouts like we got this past weekend while you wait for things to get better.

My extreme solution to this problem is to say F* Texas. We're still a laughing stock outside of the metroplex. Go to areas that don't see the Tshirt OU & UT alums. Recruit everywhere but Texas. No kid will pick UNT over TCU, OU, UT, etc. Our stigma is too big for too long. It ain't happening. However, a kid that might go to NIU, La Tech, WKU, Ball St., Marshall, Miami Ohio, etc. this is where we need to focus. Lots of kids want to leave home and play out of state. This should be our recruiting plan... Edited October 13, 2014 by Got5onIt

[10Eagle10]

My extreme solution to this problem is to say F* Texas. We're still a laughing stock outside of the metroplex. Go to areas that don't see the Tshirt OU & UT alums. Recruit everywhere but Texas. No kid will pick UNT over TCU, OU, UT, etc. Our stigma is too big for too long. It ain't happening. However, a kid that might go to NIU, La Tech, WKU, Ball St., Marshall, Miami Ohio, etc. this is where we need to focus. Lots of kids want to leave home and play out of state. This should be our recruiting plan...

[Got5onIt]

How have the last 3 coaches at NT done as far as recruiting goes?

[untbowler]

How have the last 3 coaches at NT done as far as recruiting goes?

apparently Dodge had one very good year, too bad he could not coach.

[Mean Green Matt]

I know that many on here don't think this, but I do think Vito is right. I think we are seeing that recruiting here is a hard sell to Texas kids. All that their Texas HS coaches and their parents ahve known about UNT Football since the 80s is that we are losers. Plus, we are the school that allowed football to drop down to i-aa for 12 years. And when we moved back up, we were in the dregs of college football for so long and played at a facility that was way worse than any 4A high school in front of very few people. Even with Apogee as our home now and having a legitimate college coach in charge, we still don't play many teams that draw big crowds. We jump and down about a 25k crowd, but we sit in the 4th largest market in the country. I realize UAB is very poor and play in a dilapidated stadium, but their fans and alumni never saw them drop down to a lower level of football. Plus, in the southern states, where college football is way bigger than pro football, and where poverty is way higher than it is in other parts of the country, a scholarship offer to a school like UAB, Troy, USM, ULaLa, etc...is going to be rewarded by the kids in that state, where options are not nearly as high as they are in Texas.

To me, the easiest FBS school in the entire country to recruit against is North Texas. All we are known for is apathy, being an alternative school in many ways, looked at as a commuter school still, and are just known as the team that is a bought win against the P5 schools. I'm not even counting the P5 schools in the area. SMU and Rice sell their private education and academic standing, plus the parents know they are well-thought of by the majority of parents. If you are UTEP, UTSA, or Texas State, you are saying that we will get better support in attendance and we have better opponents that will come here and play. In the last two years alone, OU, and Tech have played in El Paso. Tech and Navy have played in San Marcos. Okie State and Arizona have played in the Alamodome. We have played Texas Southern, Idaho, Ball State, SMU, and Nicholls State in Denton.

I truly believe this, but if a guy like Dan McCarney, who is amongst the most positive and upbeat people you will ever meet, and has a track record of building a winner from the ground up, cannot win recruiting battles, then you really have to ask yourself if its the staff or the university. I'm not saying his coaching isn't part of it, because that wouldn't be fair. And, yes, you can find examples of Jamario Thomas, Brandon Kennedy, Gio Vizza, Riley Dodge, and others who were highly ranked out of high school and came here as a freshman, but they are clearly the exception to the rule. Otherwise, we wouldn't have such low ranked classes no matter who is the coach. Whether it was Dickey, Dodge, or McCarney, our classes are almost always in the 100s when they get graded against others. We were always told to wait until we get a more exciting coach in here or wait until we build a winner or wait until we get a brand new stadium and join a better conference, that will change everything. I've seen us win the SBC 4 times, I've seen us hire the top HS coach in the state and watched him bring his highly ranked son here to play QB, I've seen us build a new stadium, I've seen us join a new conference, and I've seen us build back up from the ashes to win a bowl game in front of 40k fans on New Years Day. And the recruiting never changes...

To me, the only way you win at this school is to have upper classmen as the majority of your starters who have been developed into something. I think about our bowl teams in 2002, 2003, and 2013. Upperclassmen at key positions for the most part. Otherwise, you go back to years like we have seen this year. Until recruits want to come here--and what QB wants to come and hand off most downs here when almost every single Texas HS runs the spread, you are just going to have develop the talent. The hardest part about that as a fan is that you get a lot of blowouts like we got this past weekend while you wait for things to get better.

I'm sorry, but this is just one very long excuse.

[Harry]

I know that many on here don't think this, but I do think Vito is right. I think we are seeing that recruiting here is a hard sell to Texas kids. All that their Texas HS coaches and their parents ahve known about UNT Football since the 80s is that we are losers. Plus, we are the school that allowed football to drop down to i-aa for 12 years. And when we moved back up, we were in the dregs of college football for so long and played at a facility that was way worse than any 4A high school in front of very few people. Even with Apogee as our home now and having a legitimate college coach in charge, we still don't play many teams that draw big crowds. We jump and down about a 25k crowd, but we sit in the 4th largest market in the country. I realize UAB is very poor and play in a dilapidated stadium, but their fans and alumni never saw them drop down to a lower level of football. Plus, in the southern states, where college football is way bigger than pro football, and where poverty is way higher than it is in other parts of the country, a scholarship offer to a school like UAB, Troy, USM, ULaLa, etc...is going to be rewarded by the kids in that state, where options are not nearly as high as they are in Texas.

To me, the easiest FBS school in the entire country to recruit against is North Texas. All we are known for is apathy, being an alternative school in many ways, looked at as a commuter school still, and are just known as the team that is a bought win against the P5 schools. I'm not even counting the P5 schools in the area. SMU and Rice sell their private education and academic standing, plus the parents know they are well-thought of by the majority of parents. If you are UTEP, UTSA, or Texas State, you are saying that we will get better support in attendance and we have better opponents that will come here and play. In the last two years alone, OU, and Tech have played in El Paso. Tech and Navy have played in San Marcos. Okie State and Arizona have played in the Alamodome. We have played Texas Southern, Idaho, Ball State, SMU, and Nicholls State in Denton.

I truly believe this, but if a guy like Dan McCarney, who is amongst the most positive and upbeat people you will ever meet, and has a track record of building a winner from the ground up, cannot win recruiting battles, then you really have to ask yourself if its the staff or the university. I'm not saying his coaching isn't part of it, because that wouldn't be fair. And, yes, you can find examples of Jamario Thomas, Brandon Kennedy, Gio Vizza, Riley Dodge, and others who were highly ranked out of high school and came here as a freshman, but they are clearly the exception to the rule. Otherwise, we wouldn't have such low ranked classes no matter who is the coach. Whether it was Dickey, Dodge, or McCarney, our classes are almost always in the 100s when they get graded against others. We were always told to wait until we get a more exciting coach in here or wait until we build a winner or wait until we get a brand new stadium and join a better conference, that will change everything. I've seen us win the SBC 4 times, I've seen us hire the top HS coach in the state and watched him bring his highly ranked son here to play QB, I've seen us build a new stadium, I've seen us join a new conference, and I've seen us build back up from the ashes to win a bowl game in front of 40k fans on New Years Day. And the recruiting never changes...

To me, the only way you win at this school is to have upper classmen as the majority of your starters who have been developed into something. I think about our bowl teams in 2002, 2003, and 2013. Upperclassmen at key positions for the most part. Otherwise, you go back to years like we have seen this year. Until recruits want to come here--and what QB wants to come and hand off most downs here when almost every single Texas HS runs the spread, you are just going to have develop the talent. The hardest part about that as a fan is that you get a lot of blowouts like we got this past weekend while you wait for things to get better.

So how would you explain places like UAB who doesn't have a pot to piss in facility wise can manage to put together the team that skewered us? With a high school coach no less? I'm sorry i just don't buy it.

[BillySee58]

We definitely do have a lot of things working against us in recruiting, but we don't need to field a team full of guys who had TCU offers or P5 offers.

Look at last year's defense. Best defense in our conference and top 10 scoring defense in the country. 3 of the 4 starting d-linemen either walked on or had no other offers. 2 of our 3 linebackers were not highly rated or recruited, but had a few other offers from schools we could beat out. And in our secondary we had a former walkon and a signee with no other FBS offers. These guys all made for solid contributors, good role players, and glue guys.

But that defense was a big play defense, and was really made special by the 3 all-conference players making those big plays, turnovers, and points. Aaron Bellazin, Zach Orr, and Marcus Trice. 3 guys who were highly recruited out of high school and who we had to win some recruiting battles to get, except Trice who was a transfer. Here's who we had to beat out to get our all-conference players.

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Zach-Orr-93786

https://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Aaron-Bellazin-103525;_ylt=AjM1q0cIX0fCLI2tTa6HF6dDPZB4

We can fill a lot of our starting spots and rotation players with guys who were walkons, or under-the-radar recruits we were able to hit on and develop. But we need to win a few recruiting battles and adequately develop those guys in order to get the stars and all-conference type players we need to compete for division and conference titles. We were not able to get a lot of those guys, if any, in Mac's first few classes and we've paid the price of not really having any star players this year because of it. Hopefully the young guys on the roster and current commits who did have big offer lists and were big signings can become those stars. Because we need that desperately.

Edited October 13, 2014 by BillySee58

[jacksondf]

I know that many on here don't think this, but I do think Vito is right. I think we are seeing that recruiting here is a hard sell to Texas kids. All that their Texas HS coaches and their parents ahve known about UNT Football since the 80s is that we are losers. Plus, we are the school that allowed football to drop down to i-aa for 12 years. And when we moved back up, we were in the dregs of college football for so long and played at a facility that was way worse than any 4A high school in front of very few people. Even with Apogee as our home now and having a legitimate college coach in charge, we still don't play many teams that draw big crowds. We jump and down about a 25k crowd, but we sit in the 4th largest market in the country. I realize UAB is very poor and play in a dilapidated stadium, but their fans and alumni never saw them drop down to a lower level of football. Plus, in the southern states, where college football is way bigger than pro football, and where poverty is way higher than it is in other parts of the country, a scholarship offer to a school like UAB, Troy, USM, ULaLa, etc...is going to be rewarded by the kids in that state, where options are not nearly as high as they are in Texas.

To me, the easiest FBS school in the entire country to recruit against is North Texas. All we are known for is apathy, being an alternative school in many ways, looked at as a commuter school still, and are just known as the team that is a bought win against the P5 schools. I'm not even counting the P5 schools in the area. SMU and Rice sell their private education and academic standing, plus the parents know they are well-thought of by the majority of parents. If you are UTEP, UTSA, or Texas State, you are saying that we will get better support in attendance and we have better opponents that will come here and play. In the last two years alone, OU, and Tech have played in El Paso. Tech and Navy have played in San Marcos. Okie State and Arizona have played in the Alamodome. We have played Texas Southern, Idaho, Ball State, SMU, and Nicholls State in Denton.

I truly believe this, but if a guy like Dan McCarney, who is amongst the most positive and upbeat people you will ever meet, and has a track record of building a winner from the ground up, cannot win recruiting battles, then you really have to ask yourself if its the staff or the university. I'm not saying his coaching isn't part of it, because that wouldn't be fair. And, yes, you can find examples of Jamario Thomas, Brandon Kennedy, Gio Vizza, Riley Dodge, and others who were highly ranked out of high school and came here as a freshman, but they are clearly the exception to the rule. Otherwise, we wouldn't have such low ranked classes no matter who is the coach. Whether it was Dickey, Dodge, or McCarney, our classes are almost always in the 100s when they get graded against others. We were always told to wait until we get a more exciting coach in here or wait until we build a winner or wait until we get a brand new stadium and join a better conference, that will change everything. I've seen us win the SBC 4 times, I've seen us hire the top HS coach in the state and watched him bring his highly ranked son here to play QB, I've seen us build a new stadium, I've seen us join a new conference, and I've seen us build back up from the ashes to win a bowl game in front of 40k fans on New Years Day. And the recruiting never changes...

To me, the only way you win at this school is to have upper classmen as the majority of your starters who have been developed into something. I think about our bowl teams in 2002, 2003, and 2013. Upperclassmen at key positions for the most part. Otherwise, you go back to years like we have seen this year. Until recruits want to come here--and what QB wants to come and hand off most downs here when almost every single Texas HS runs the spread, you are just going to have develop the talent. The hardest part about that as a fan is that you get a lot of blowouts like we got this past weekend while you wait for things to get better.

I disagree. Recruiting is a ground up process. You develop relationships with the high school coaches, you get access to the players and parents then you sell the school. Selling UNT against SMU/Rice is tough, but selling UNT vs. UTSA/UTEP/Texas State is not.

I do agree about the style of play in recruiting quarterbacks. It was the same problem Texas A&M used to have before Sumlin. That said, the flip side of that is we have gotten some great running backs over the years.

[Got5onIt]

We definitely do have a lot of things working against us in recruiting, but we don't need to field a team full of guys who had TCU offers or P5 offers.

Look at last year's defense. Best defense in our conference and top 10 scoring defense in the country. 3 of the 4 starting d-linemen either walked on or had no other offers. 2 of our 3 linebackers were not highly rated or recruited, but had a few other offers from schools we could beat out. And in our secondary we had a former walkon and a signee with no other FBS offers. These guys all made for solid contributors, good role players, and glue guys.

But that defense was a big play defense, and was really made special by the 3 all-conference players making those big plays, turnovers, and points. Aaron Bellazin, Zach Orr, and Marcus Trice. 3 guys who were highly recruited out of high school and who we had to win some recruiting battles to get, except Trice who was a transfer. Here's who we had to beat out to get our all-conference players.

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Zach-Orr-93786

https://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Aaron-Bellazin-103525;_ylt=AjM1q0cIX0fCLI2tTa6HF6dDPZB4

We can fill a lot of our starting spots and rotation players with guys who were walkons, or under-the-radar recruits we were able to hit on and develop. But we need to win a few recruiting battles and adequately develop those guys in order to get the stars and all-conference type players we need to compete for division and conference titles. We were not able to get a lot of those guys, if any, in Mac's first few classes and we've paid the price of not really having any star players this year because of it. Hopefully the young guys on the roster and current commits who did have big offer lists and were big signings can become those stars. Because we need that desperately.

You can't forget development & maturity. The guys that won last year played lots of losing games up until last season. Seniors are difference makers. They've been in the program for 4-5 years. Mac just hasn't backfilled well, at all. If he has such strict physical requirements at QB, who's to say he doesn't have the same at all positions? I know size is important at certain positions, but it does limit your recruiting base, especially at the skilled positions. Edited October 14, 2014 by Got5onIt

[UNT90]

So how would you explain places like UAB who doesn't have a pot to piss in facility wise can manage to put together the team that skewered us? With a high school coach no less? I'm sorry i just don't buy it.

An effective AD?