Recruiting priorities

hickoryhouse · October 7, 2014

There has been a bunch of talk on the board recently about needing to put a higher priority on recruiting QB talent. I think that might not be as much the case anymore as we see DW emerge and we have high hopes for Means. Not saying that we don't need to try to bring a good qb in every year, because we do, but I think that we might need to place a higher recruiting priority on a very different position. Defensive Line, Ends and Tackles.

Watching our D. Line against a lower level P5 school like Indiana made me realize that as undersized as we are up there. We will never be able to compete as a dominating defense if we are continually getting rolled up front. That line last year was big, strong and mean. They dominated O Lines, especially the later half of the year and during C-USA play. Our current group is quick, but they are small and get no penetration and that leaves our DB's out on an island due to the lack of pressure that they generate.

Our D Line right now looks like this:

DE

30 Roberts, Jarrian RS SO 238 LBS 99 Flusche, Andy RS FR 230 LBS DT 95 Lincoln, Alexander SR/3 267 LBS 91 Orr, Austin JR 272 LBS DT 98 Watson, Dutton RS SO 273 LBS 63 Moore, Sid RS FR 252 LBS DE 42 Polk, Chad JR/2 223 LBS 56 Dilonga, Malik RS SO 251 LBS

i am not as in depth with some of this stuff as a lot of you guys on here and I don't want to pretend to be, but with an average across the starting 4 of 250.23 lbs I think that regardless of skill, these guys get worn down and run over in the later half of the game because they just don't have the bulk to stand up to getting leaned on all game.

For comparison... Here is Indiana's starting O line:

LT 78 Spriggs, Jason JR/2 307 LBS LG 68 Kaminski, David RS JR/1 305 LBS C 64 Rahrig, Collin RS SR/3 290 LBS RG 67 Feeney, Dan RS SO/1 305 LBS RT 62 Evans, Ralston RS JR/1 295 LBS

Average across the starting 5, 300.4 lbs. and with just a brief glance UAB's line looks even bigger.

We do a good job of rotating guys to keep fresh legs, we do see glimpses of talent here and the scheme is great from a great coach. But if you ask me we need significantly more attention paid to the DLine in recruiting. my.02. Am I missing something here or is my concern justified?

untjim1995 · October 7, 2014

Coach Mac's strength is developing lines--I know that we are inexperienced right now, but I suspect that 2015 will be a much better year for our DLine. Of course, we have to replace our OL, but I think we will be fine here. The reality here is that everyone wants linemen. The thing that helps McCarney is that he has a track record of turning unranked and low ranked talent into good pieces on the lines. We have to hope he keeps it up, which I believe he will.

There are some coaches out there that have the ability to just coach up players to be better as they get older and used to their systems. Leach did it at Tech on the offense. Patterson has always done that at TCU on defense. At some places, you just get a ton of talent and coaching up the talent isn't as necessary like it is at a place like UNT or TCU. Sumlin at A&M and Briles at Baylor are getting their picks of the Texas HS ranks right now. Before that, Texas and OU were getting it, so coaching the talent up wasn't necessary. You have coaches like Snyder at KSU and Mangino when he was at KU that could just get the maximum out of their teams. I believe McCarney is a guy who has the same ability to make guys better over time. It doesn't happen overnight, as it takes time for the linemen to get stronger and smarter, but there is no doubt that he has that reputation with linemen.

UNT90 · October 7, 2014

QB and both lines should be your highest priorities.

We don't have a clue what Means is. DW has shown that he has commitment issues with conditioning, which almost always leads to injury.

A million things could happen, and we are shallow as shallow gets at QB RIGHT NOW. You need at least 1 QB per class.If we could get quality, I would take 2 this class.

We are not anywhere close to "set" at QB for this year or next.

Ben Gooding · October 7, 2014

Justifiable concern. The problem is that it's difficult to recruit DL bc the P5 programs are stock piling what would be automatic All-CUSA defensive linemen. We have a couple good DL commits right now, but there's always that concern of a late offer or that bigger concern of a player not panning out. If we could land a couple 3* at DL it would be pretty big, granted they panned out.

H-towngreen · October 7, 2014

We have plenty of young guys on the DL who will develop....hopefully. And to this point our 2015 class of DL recruits looks solid.

Always take 1 QB a class, no excuses.

Ben Gooding · October 7, 2014

This whole it takes time to develop DL is true. Where are his developed DL from the last 4 years of coaching at North Texas? Head scratcher.

pastorgrant · October 7, 2014

Our D Line right now looks like this:

DE
30 Roberts, Jarrian RS SO 238 LBS 99 Flusche, Andy RS FR 230 LBS DT 95 Lincoln, Alexander SR/3 267 LBS 91 Orr, Austin JR 272 LBS DT 98 Watson, Dutton RS SO 273 LBS 63 Moore, Sid RS FR 252 LBS DE 42 Polk, Chad JR/2 223 LBS 56 Dilonga, Malik RS SO 251 LBS

Your weights are out of date. Jerrian Roberts is 240, Andy Flusche is 261, Linc is 275, Austin Orr is 277, Dutton Watson is 283, Sid Moore is 257, Polk is 231, and Malik Dilonga is 252. We also have Sir Calvin at 296, Tauaalo at 288, and Tillman Johnson at 243 who get some playing time.

http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/ntex-m-footbl-mtt.html

UNT90 · October 7, 2014

Your weights are out of date. Jerrian Roberts is 240, Andy Flusche is 261, Linc is 275, Austin Orr is 277, Dutton Watson is 283, Sid Moore is 257, Polk is 231, and Malik Dilonga is 252. We also have Sir Calvin at 296, Tauaalo at 288, and Tillman Johnson at 243 who get some playing time.

http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/ntex-m-footbl-mtt.html

What's missing?

Any player with the number 3 at the beginning of his listed weight.

817Fan · October 7, 2014

Run the ball & stop the run. It's how you win games. We are WAY too small on the defensive front. Lincoln does an admirable job inside but coming out of high school he was 240. He's the size of player that should be your strong side DE. We cant play him there because we need him inside. Moving forward, we seem to be loading up on DBs & WRs. disproportionately to D linemen. Nothing against the players but you can't win at this level when your ends don't weigh 230 lbs.

pastorgrant · October 7, 2014

What's missing?
Any player with the number 3 at the beginning of his listed weight.

We do have a 300 pounder but the 2somethings have beat him out. We do need some more size but it isn't everything

UNT90 · October 7, 2014

We do have a 300 pounder but the 2somethings have beat him out. We do need some more size but it isn't everything

Nichol's fatasses proved that point.

GrayEagle · October 7, 2014

Where's a LB? We lose Akunne and the replacement would seem to be sliding Scott or Wallace to his spot. I don't think that there are any left on the board. Hayden Davidson at North Richland Hills is an unknown but I believe that he's a good prospect. The highest rated available is Brice Borgeson of Van but we haven't offered and I assume are not interested. I'd like to see two taken in this class.

Let me echo that we need one quarterback candidate in each recruiting class.

foutsrouts · October 8, 2014

Since we seem to have trouble getting that monster D-Lineman out of high school, I wish we would use the OL to DL conversion on occasion. I realize that it requires a whole different attitude playing on the D side of the ball, but it can be done if you find the right guy and get him going in the right direction preferably during his RS Freshman year. I wouldn't be surprised if we've got an OL guy or two out there right now who could have successfully made the transition in a big way.

H-towngreen · October 8, 2014

We do have a 300 pounder but the 2somethings have beat him out. We do need some more size but it isn't everything

SirCalvin is getting a ton of playing time

pastorgrant · October 8, 2014

SirCalvin is getting a ton of playing time

Yes he is, I was talking about Michael Igwe

MeanGreen13 · October 8, 2014

Where's a LB? We lose Akunne and the replacement would seem to be sliding Scott or Wallace to his spot. I don't think that there are any left on the board. Hayden Davidson at North Richland Hills is an unknown but I believe that he's a good prospect. The highest rated available is Brice Borgeson of Van but we haven't offered and I assume are not interested. I'd like to see two taken in this class.

Let me echo that we need one quarterback candidate in each recruiting class.

jamal marshall is akunne's back up and is the same mold as ellis... long and fast. also, we have calvin minor to back up the outside guys as well as blake bean. we will be strong going two deep at lb next year (add aj smith to the depth). we also have jalen montgomery waiting for that middle lb spot in a couple years and brandon garner waiting for an olb spot. lb is not a huge issue for us actually... i would be a little more worried about safety than lb. all we have after this year is schilleci and mcclain... both young and unproven.

i am personally worried about our dbs. those are the positions that have seen the most attrition over the last 3 years. if you look at the recruiting classes, the highly rated guys mac brought in for those spots just didnt pan out (devante davis, david busby, xavier kelly, d.q. johnson; and that's just 2012) others include: freddie warner (still holding out hope) kerry swarn, jamone greer, kendrick ruben, and zed evans (to a certain extent). losing that many bodies in 3 years from just 2 positions is pretty tough... that's probably why a kenny buyers ever had a chance to step in. all but one of those guys were expected to be awesome players but some were just busts. either way, this is why we are seeing the lack on depth back there... we have good prospects, they just arent quite ready by the time we need them to be in order to cover the 2-3 years worth of depth we lost in these players.

Edited October 8, 2014 by MeanGreen13

Ben Gooding · October 8, 2014

Why aren't they ready? Million dollar question.

Marty · October 8, 2014

what's the status of Johnovan Graham & Shaq Jackson?

MeanGreen13 · October 8, 2014

Why aren't they ready? Million dollar question.

because they are red-shirt freshmen and sophomores instead of juniors/red-shirt sophomores/ red-shirt juniors.

817Fan · October 8, 2014

jamal marshall is akunne's back up and is the same mold as ellis... long and fast. also, we have calvin minor to back up the outside guys as well as blake bean. we will be strong going two deep as lb next year (add aj smith to the depth). we also have jalen montgomery waiting for that middle lb spot in a couple years and brandon garner waiting for an olb spot. lb is not a huge issue for us actually... i would be a little more worried about safety than lb. all we have after this year is schilleci and mcclain... both young and unproven.

i am personally worried about our dbs. those are the positions that have seen the most attrition over the last 3 years. if you look at the recruiting classes, the highly rated guys mac brought in for those spots just didnt pan out (devante davis, david busby, xavier kelly, d.q. johnson; and that's just 2012) others include: freddie warner (still holding out hope) kerry swarn, jamone greer, kendrick ruben, and zed evans (to a certain extent). losing that many bodies in 3 years from just 2 positions is pretty tough... that's probably why a kenny buyers ever had a chance to step in. all but one of those guys were expected to be awesome players but some were just busts. either way, this is why we are seeing the lack on depth back there... we have good prospects, they just arent quite ready by the time we need them to be in order to cover the 2-3 years worth of depth we lost in these players.

you need size inside at DT and at DE to demand a double team. when you have that, LB can excel. otherwise they have a guard hanging on them.

Ben Gooding · October 8, 2014

because they are red-shirt freshmen and sophomores instead of juniors/red-shirt sophomores/ red-shirt juniors.

So did Mac not recruit players his first 2 years? Where's all this development everyone likes throwing around? I see little to none at this point.

MeanGreen13 · October 10, 2014

So did Mac not recruit players his first 2 years? Where's all this development everyone likes throwing around? I see little to none at this point.

I just mentioned a bunch of players mac recruited that are no longer in the program. you can't develop people who are there long enough. that was my point. there are a lot of missing links as far as guys that were brought in that arent there. there should be more juniors and redshirt sophomores that have been in the program 3 years but there aren't because a disproportionate number of them left. if you look at his first 3 recruiting classes, you will see that quit a few of those guys, some of the higher rated guys, are not with the team anymore, and haven't been for a while. a lot of them never even contributed. that's why the depth isn't as good as we hoped it would be. IDK how else to say it.

Ben Gooding · October 10, 2014

So is them leaving for whatever reason(s) not on the coaching staff? Part of recruiting is recruiting your guys that will mold into your program. Apparently a lot of Macs recruits aren't picking up what he's laying down and are going elsewhere. That's still a problem and the fault of that still lies right on top of the coaching staff.

MeanGreen13 · October 10, 2014

So is them leaving for whatever reason(s) not on the coaching staff? Part of recruiting is recruiting your guys that will mold into your program. Apparently a lot of Macs recruits aren't picking up what he's laying down and are going elsewhere. That's still a problem and the fault of that still lies right on top of the coaching staff.i agree to an extent... but it is hard to predict how kids will react to things and them leaving isnt the coaches fault innately. also, some of those guys didnt make to campus at all because of extraneous circumstances so that definitely isnt the coach. why do you want to complain about mac and co. so badly?

Ben Gooding · October 10, 2014

Bc 20-22 after 3.5 years matched with how we are currently playing and questions marks all over the place with little to no depth is very concerning. He has been developing a good portion of our current starters for the better part of 2 years and we aren't just losing games, we are getting chewed up and spit out. It's concerning. It's also concerning that 99% of us are worried about the game tomorrow against UAB. At this point in Macs time at UNT should we really be worrying about having to scrape and claw for a win over UAB? My mind tells me no, but we all are mainly bc of an underdeveloped and undersized defense paired with hopes for a young QB (3rd stringer when season started) to have success with one proven wideout. It's disheartening and to me is a big concern.

Oh and we aren't that young of a team. 2 true sophomores and a RS freshman on the entire 2 deep. The rest of the entire 2 deep are 3 year players or older. That is not a young team.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Ben Gooding