SCREAMING EAGLE-66

Not really???...hmmm Does this mean Plumm thinks Quonner could whip his a**??? or option two: you are not off the phone yet... or option three: You were never on the phone.

I doubt that the dogs were trained or could be trained to find that one (LSD). [ I don't really know but does it have an odor?] The world has gone nuts with weapons and rules. Under today's world I would have subject to suspension every day when I was in high school (early 60's) ... I kept a gun in my pickup. We raised cattle and it was in a gunrack or under the seat all the time. I often drove out and fed cattle after school and it was needed to kill rattlesnakes that sometimes were found in the barn under bails of hay. I wasn't the only one that did this either and everyone knew they were there.... we just knew to not mess with the guns during schools hours and no-one cared. The only incident I even remember was kid had his father's WWII war souvenir German Lugar... unloaded.... to show another guy. He was suspended for a few days. Everyone understand he wasn't trying to harm anyone but he should not have handled it at school. That may have not been a great policy then but my sons buddy was thrown out just because he had a hunting knife in the back of his SUV along with all the camping gear he had used the previous weekend. Crazy... of couse a hammer would have acceptable as well a tire iron or baseball bat, showt put, or key-hole saw to have in the back of that SUV. We even had a history teacher (while I was teaching) bring a couple of very old guns (unloaded) to class that his great-grandfather had used as a Texas Ranger during the 1870's. He was ok but there are some city-types I would not want touching a gun.. These things might not should happened today but it hass gotten crazy.

QUOTE(SCREAMING EAGLE-66 @ Dec 17 2007, 11:34 PM) ---Not once have I said MAN evolved from a monkey or anything else. I just don't know... check my post [Dec 15, 1036 PM ] But the intelligent design idea is crazy... Holy-Moly... the entire concept of intelligent design contradicts the entire spectrum of evolution. ..... It does exist...as shown by simple organisms (viruses)and our "changing" of agricultural products such as corn..... I guess the biggest problem is what we define as man.... It seems likely [theory again not fact ] that at some point that man and other primates may have had some common ancestors. Just because I don't insist they did, doesn't mean I think they didn't.. It is a theory and it makes sense. At some point this being is defined as MAN. I do not see a problem with God creating man by way of evolution or by any other way. Evolution doesn't contradict a divine being.....like some want to insist. Part II: Just because Darwin may have been an atheist does not mean the others that believe similar are. It amazes me how some people lump all people together if some happen to believe one certain thing and draw nutty conclusions. This really applies to politics and how one party tries to "paint " the other one. Be a bit open-minded. It irritated me that if someone questioned Iraq had weapons and did not think the invasion was necessary that they were criticized and branded as an unpatriotic socialist by many. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Guess how that turned out..... Just because a person is sitting in the White House, is a member of certain political party, or a member of a particular Church..... doesn't mean he is right.....or wrong.

--It seems that most here do agree on one thing that bothers me... ---Church is church and school is school.. Schools have enough problems without trying to make them teach Religion and morals...[ not that a few teacher comments along the way is a problem]. Leave that to families and churches to do the majority of that.. One of the biggest problems I have seen [i spent 30 years in public schools] is that parents want to be "friends" to their kids and often don't have the courage to say NO! when they need to. They also want the schools to do the things that schools were never intended to do... and many parents don't have the courage to do themselves. When things go wrong then they start blaming the schools instead of taking responsibility themselves. There is nothing wrong with after-school activities but when parents don't force/encourage student to do their homework it is a problem. I have even had many say they didn't do it because they were at church for several hours the night before.... and think I should excuse them... and probably thought I was anti-religion because I wouldn't. There is a second-side to those who claim schools and teachers are anti-religion..... It usually involves someone that really is exagerating the situation or wants to do things that should not be done such as promoting a certain Church's belief. ---The reason I posted that site is also to indicate that not all things that some religious "leaders' say or do is all that great either... some are total loons, and are so bad it is obvious.... it is the not so obvious ones that are the problem. People listen to them.. Part II: Keep religous leaders out of government as much as possible. the countries that allow religous leaders to have a lot of control ( or influence) have serious problems..... the middle east is a prime example of this. ---As for evolution... it exists (some here really don't have a clue what it really does... no animal immediately has another animal as a offspring as some are suggesting and laughing about)... I do think the evolution of man (a theory) should avoided as much as possible in public schools, not at the college level.. No one is required to be in college classes... --- I have idea what this prof really said ...but if they just taught evolution and wasn't trashing religion completely then their removal was insane.

---Not once have I said MAN evolved from a monkey or anything else. I just don't know... check my post [Dec 15, 1036 PM ] But the intelligent design idea is crazy...and those who claim the world is only 5000-10,000 years old are as incorrect as the flat earth guys. Given millions (or bilions) of years if small changes happen it eventually can really change appearance and characteristics and create what we would now consider new or different organisms. I have not memtioned Darwin even once and no doubt some of his conclusions are wrong...[it is a theory, not absolute facts] but not as wrong or crazy as the opposite group is. Of course there were those who thought that those who experimented with electrictry was doing the work of the devil as well... Oddly (LOL) the religious fanatics don't think that way now.... and stay on TV 24-hours a day criticizing scientists....some even use computers (hahaha) .. you figure...

I think you exactly right... If remember right the Manning call was wrong... he had put hands on top of the centers rear or something like that and had not put them "under " center. .In fact sometimes the QB walks up behind behind a guard which appears to be behind the center to most and can move around because that would be legal....one nonlineman can be in motion (not forward) when snapped. ..trickery... ---One "trick" play that I have seen quite a bit... but not in NFL very often, is the QB walks up and then takes the ball from the center and none of the linemen move immediately... This was done when there was no defensive guy over center and the field is open for several yards. The defense see only two people move and think someone has jumped offside when in reallity the play is going on... it often works for 5 yards or so before the defense realizes what is happening and reacts. There is usually some code word or action between the center and QB that starts this because of the odd condition beyond center that exists..... it is not a called play usually. usually the Refs are contacted ahead of time that this plays exists so they won't blow the play dead as a offside situation. They do seem to be allowing more head movement by the center nowdays... in fact they commented on it in a game I saw yesterday.

--ok---LOL --- I just get tired of people who think anyone that disagrees with them are one of the above mentioned names. I don't hippy applies much to me however.. .. NT was very conservative at the time I graduated in 66*.... when I went back and worked on a graduate degree (1971) it was a totally different world. There can never be enough made of the year 1968 and how much things changed then. Now it has swung so far the other direction it is nuts... also now many people are way too intolerant of others.....almost as bad as the Puritans....they see everything in black/white. ---It can't be solved. you are right there... but those who think absolutely that they know the answer (either extreme) ... don't. It really doesn't matter what anyone invidual oppinion is.. what does matter is an open mind tolerance of others and their right to believe as they want about things that can never be proved. (flat earth doesn't count)...... that seems to be proved wrong...LOL * never saw any drugs or marijuana until a couple of years after graduation... and I even lived in dormatory... not a sheltered life. We suspected some of the music guys may have had some it though. LOL.. It is difficult now for a kid to get to the 6th grade without seeing it.... We often left our rooms unlocked and cars as well... the cars often were unlocked and had books, golf clubs etc in them and no one bothered them. [i can think of one exception, a guy went into an unlocked room and took some records.... a couple of guys on the floor figured out who, worked on his health some and the records suddenly appeared..hahaha] Try leaving things unlocked today...and see if things last one hour. The world has changed... well at least America has ..

--When you don't know anything to say. . just use obscene words and call people names and use unflattering labels ... socialist, pagan, unpatriotic, liberal, idiot, etc. ... LOL

To MeanGreen-93-98 (of Arkansas): ---Your arguments are is a little less ridiculous than than minister from Arkansas, but not a whole lot. Changing a simple organisms with a cell or two can not be logically compared with a complex animal or person ---well at least not in the same time frame. We are talking millions of years, not a a few months. Plants and animals live where is environment is "somewhat friendly to them" and if the situation changes then the life in the area changes. Some of the change is natural some of it is man-made. A lot of wild animals have disappeared from areas because of man, some for other reasons.. There are no wolves or bears near Denton anymore but there once was. Some disappear because we eliminated them and then the animals that fed on them disappeared as well. --- We have not been the only factor in changing this world. There are not very many Horned -Toads anymore in Texas (not like when I was a kid) because since the fireants appears (after WWII) they have spread greatly and they swarm them and do them in. I doubt there are 1% of what there once was when I was a kid, I once caught them and messed with (not killed) them all the time. I can't tell you you the last time I saw one. It is likely that the ones that have survived have something different about them than the usual horned-toad, thicker skin, smaller nostrils etc. (fireants crawl into them this way), something that allows them to survive and multiply and have offspring withthe same characteristic while the others died out. So what is left can be considered "evolutionary" changed. We have all sorts of different birds and animal around Midland now that were very uncommon 40 years old... grackles for one, squirrils for another. Even Hawks are now in town now feeding on the squirrils. That is only a couple of examples. Some types of animals don't get eaten because they taste bad. My cats would not touch a grackles to eat... after catching a couple, they then just left them alone. They loved doves etc. Some animals are less likely to get eaten because they are better camaflouged, faster, or just smarter. Some mice I can catch in less than a day... others don't care for cheese or whatever I put into a trap and can survive a long time and multiply before I get them.... That is evolution because their offsprings often have that same characteristic. The stupid or the ones with a bad characteristics are done in and don't get to multiply... they become food to quickly. Evolution means change and change is very slow and something forces it to change. ---One the biggest changes in my lifetime is the number of deer now. The government eradicated the screwworm fly in North America about 1960 which changed life for those of us that ranched (earlier we needed to doctor all newborn calfs immediately) .... but at the same time it increased the number of deer and some other animals in the wild...screw-worms would kill a lot of injured or newborn deer and other animals prior until then. Guess what started showing up more then...coyotes.... more food available now. The faster coyotes eat and live, the slow ones slowly get elimininated (opps, evolution again) . Evolution is not a conflict to the Bible at all as I see it. How things are created really isn't a big issue, God does it or allows it. . Anti-evolutionists insist that immediately everything appears...poof.... and nothing changes........does that make sense???

---My final comment... there are idiots on both sides of the argument... I found this site by accident when searching for something else entirely. This site is really disgusting.. look around at the site. It would be funny if it wasn't that this guy ( a minister in Arkansas) is actually serious. http://www.truechristian.com/apes.html He insists the world is flat among other things. Look around on the site. You will find something that offends you, I am sure. _______________ If you want more evidence that the Earth is flat, look here: 1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.” Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...” Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...” Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.” Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...” Isaiah 11:12: "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

---I pretty much agree with your last comments. But there is a serious flaw. I also recognize that just because part of them want to kill us off, most do not. You can't justify attacking one Islamic country because another does something wrong. This often the problem.. In Northern Ireland if a Catholic or Protestant did something to the opposite gruop that did not justify attempting the kill the others.......but that is what was happening. Our invading a Islamic country just because it is Islamic is no reason to invade. We become as bad as the Islamic extremists then. ---We have a right to defend ourselves and even go after people such as Ben Laden but not to invade and punish countries just they may have different religious beliefs. That would put us back into the religious wars of the late middle ages again. Keep religious beliefs and government separate. When mixed, it causes all sorts of irrational wars. The countries of the world understood us going into Afganistan.... they didn't Iraq.... besides Sadden was not a Islamic crazy at all, he was a thug as was Stalin but not as bad even..... he had no modern weapons and no capability to manufacture them after the Gulf War and really cause problems as Stalin did.

---I see no conflict between science and belief in God... Anyone who has taken a lot of science classes understands the complexitives of the universe and realizes it is far too complex for man to fully understand. The conflict comes when organized religions come up with odd ideas they want to believe is true (the world is flat for example by the Pope or that the world is only 10,000 old or whatever) and declare that those who doesn't believe as they do are somehow linked to the devil (as the New England Puritans who thought they were justified in murdering people as do many today) . ---More people have been killed in the name of religion beliefs than for any other reason.. The Cathlolic and various Protestants fought for several centuries in Europe. Even WWII had religious overtones as Hilter tried to eliminate the Jews and many Europeans "Christians" blamed the Jews for the crucifixian. Thousand if not millions were killed during the Crusades and today even the religious extremists wanted us to invade Iraq to punished the Islamics even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. Somehow killing people for religious reasons seems totally wrong. ---Most people of science have no trouble with religion... just with some of the nutty religious leaders that try to make up their "own rules". After all, the day I graduated from high school the blacks in my class, including the good student and athlete that sat behind me in math class was not not allowed to enroll at Baylor, SMU, TCU, or even the Baptist supported college in my home town... Many ministers and colleges could even come with with scriptures that justified their actions.... Many (not all) are just as nutty today. Just because a person is a minister just not mean they get any more "devine" revelations that the rest of us. Why am I not at church this morning...? my wife is ill.

Bang.... Bang... Bang....

Re Theory: There sure a lot of modern electronic devices that exist because of various THEORIES of electricity...... I will bet that you use them and don't worry about the "theories" behind them. I can't nor can anyone else really see electrons, protons, and atomic particles we but use them assuming they are true and use them to make our modern world. Just because we believe electons, protons, and antimatter, etc. exists doesn't mean we doubt the existence of God.... although some think we do. We have "faith" that these things exist and faith that God does as well.

---You missed it... The penicillin or whatever drug will wipe out maybe 99% of the bacteria but 1% survives and becomes the new common bacteria and resists the original drug as expected since future version are descendants of this tough 1% that wasn't killed....... thus the old drug becomes nearly worthless and a new drug is needed. I hope you did not major in any area of science, mathematics, or engineering.

---The Pope once declared the word was flat.... His believe was based a biblical passage referring to "the four corners of the Earth". When Galileo made claims about the Solar system and that the Earth revolved around the sun he was excommunicated and would have been executed had re had recounted his claims but he was very well know.. The Babylonians had claimed 1000's of years earlier had said the earth was round and had measured it fairly accurately.... Oh yes... There is 360 degrees in a cicle because of them... which meant the Earth traveled aabout one degree per day around the sun. The Pope also believed that God would have made man the CENTER of the universe asnd that Galileo claims were absurb. It almost cost him his life to say othr wise. --- I don't get why some religious people have such a problem with people of science... they need and like doctors, drive cars, use electricity, and enjoy the modern world because of scientific developements. Personally I don't see that much conflict betwen the areas... Most believe in a devine being.... just not on some of the details..... like the Pope's declaration that the world is flat.... or even that the people that disagreed with the Church in Puritan New England (Salem) were witches and deserved to be hung...... and were.

First don't even start to claim that I am claiming than man came from a monkey...I am not....... And don't claim I am some Godless pagan... I am not. ----Evolution absolutely exists... Some of it has been controlled.... the Aggie Agriculture department among many others (also Tech and many in other colleges elsewhere) changes plants all the time... The corn we produce today bears little resemblance to the original corn plant that the Indians had when Europe began to settle in America. Agricultural scientists have controlled many plants such as wheat so that 99% of the plants are the same height so that they can be easier harvested. at one time it was taller with a wider variety of heights. Cotton plants today look a great deal different than they did 100 years ago.... Now they are shorter plants with "less plant" and more "cotton". Granted this is not "natural" evolution but never less it is a type of evolution. Viruses change constantly so that we are able to eliminate one a different appears (evolves) . Change of "germs" appear as one disease is nearly wiped out another similar version appears. There are varieties of dogs now that never existed several years ago. Again the result of controled breeding (evolution of a sort).. Because of these germ and virus changes new medicines must be developed to fight the "nearly same" disease... --I suppose some will claim changing plants and animals isn't evolution...well if it isn't, what is it?? Some is natural change (viruses for example) some isn't.... new animals appear (somewhat, especially domestic animals) and many have disappeared. Evolution in general is not a theory... the evolution of man somewhat is..... but we have changed somewhat as well, in size, heigth, and appearance some..[ examine bodies in tombs 100's of years old and military records ( and uniforms) of soldiers through the years regarding size of men.

Really---That is Horse manure.... probably stated by Rush Limbaugh or someone....then why was the GOP Senators and Reps wanted to cut taxes, and do other things in 1998-99. Your memory is very short. They were alway talking about the surplus... Some (mostly Democrat want to reduce the national debt and some wanted to put Social Security on a firmer basis.... I suggest you go back and look and learn the true facts. Try this site, it is a US government site... not the propoganda of any party: IT SHOULD BE ACCURATE http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports...bt/histdebt.htm The increases of the late 1900's was interest not because unbalanced budget... This is what was being in 1999-2000 argued at the time, what to do with the surplus.... Pay the Debt down??? or tax cuts. Bush won and the debt increased greatly again. Date ---------- Dollar Amount 09/30/2008 ----------------- 09/30/2007 not available 09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23 Bush II... it will double by the time he leaves office at this rate. 09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50 09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32 09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62 09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16 09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06 09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86 28% increase of wht it was when took office ( 8 years) Clinton 09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43 09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62 09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34 09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73 09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39 09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32 09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38 09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66 42% increase of what it was went into office ( 4 years) Bush I 09/30/1991 3,665,303,351,697.03 09/28/1990 3,233,313,451,777.25 09/29/1989 2,857,430,960,187.32 09/30/1988 2,602,337,712,041.16 186 % increase of what it was when went into office ( 8 years) Reagan 09/30/1987 2,350,276,890,953.00 09/30/1986 2,125,302,616,658.42 09/30/1985 * 1,823,103,000,000.00 09/30/1984 * 1,572,266,000,000.00 09/30/1983 * 1,377,210,000,000.00 09/30/1982 * 1,142,034,000,000.00 09/30/1981 * 0,997,855,000,000.00 09/30/1980 * 0,907,701,000,000.00 last Carter year. * rounded off

I am partly copying what I said on another thread, some is new: ---- Religious Extremists have done this extreme separation of church and state to themselves.... I have heard devotions over the intercom (I taught in public schools 30 years). l that I thought went way too far and tried to advance the beliefs of their particular Church---- trust me, not all Christian Churches believe the same at all. That is THE problem. A local Catholic Church sells beer at a fall festival... meanwhile a few blocks away the Baptist and Church of Christ try to absolutely forbid it. ---I have had students want to discuss "their religion" or in class instead of doing their assignment [most were close to failing]. School is school and church is church... that doesn't mean you can't be a Christian at school.... just not a "preacher". I had no problem with a kid having Bible in class ..just reading it when he needed to be doing his/her math. After they were finished doing what was required.. who cares..READ (not Preach) what you want. Oh yes -- I do attend a Christian church regularly and my wife is currently teaching at a School founded by the Episcopal Church. We belong to a different mainstream denomination, however. The oil fields of West Texas bases their income on geological facts which not no doubt irritate some religious groups. This is how they find oil and yawl have gasoline to use.

--I would daytime confrontations are very likely in today's world. When I was a kid most businesses closed down at 6-7:00 PM, not true now. The grocery store where I worked (Safeway) at closed at 7:00. Today people work all types of hours and there are a lot of people in homes during the daytime. Those who criticize "absolutely" what happened just aren't thinking. If I yelled at a bunch of four "thugs" and I was armed and then they started toward me. You bet I would shoot. They can have hidden weapons, including knives and in fact since four of them they would not even need weapons to "do me in". If nothing else they could use my weapon on me. Maybe he was justified, maybe not, I wasn't there. I know one thing if you threaten to use a gun you better be willing to use it or you will be in serious trouble. ---For those you consider Democrats bleeding heart, pagan, socialists... you haven't met me. True a lot of big city Democrats are rather anti-gun, especially those in the North-East but is a function of where they live not which party they belong to. I once voted for GOP candidates a lot but once they got the part that they try to "demonize" those that dare disagree with them as socialist, gay, unpatriotic, pagan, and total liberals then I decided it was time to support people that were more open minded. As for being conservative... on what issue.. ??.. financially, religion, socially or what? Very few people are more financially conservative than me (a Democrat) [fact: Clinton administration balanced their budget 6 of his 8 years, Bush never has nor did Reagan] Both Bush and Reagan more than doubled the national debt.... is that conservative??? And for it is worth I do go to church regularly... unlike some of those who want religion taught in schools. For the most part, Religious Extremists have done this extreme separation of church and state to themselves.... I have heard devotions over the intercom (I taught in public schools 30 years). l that I thought went way too far and tried to advance the beliefs of their particular Church---- trust me, not all Christian Churches believe the same at all. That is THE problem. A local Catholic Church sells beer at a fall festival... meanwhile a few blocks away the Baptist and Church of Christ try to absolutely forbid it. An "almost exact" quote from Thomas Jefferson: "Sometimes the most patriotic thing a person can do is disagree with what his government is doing". I graduated during the '60s... but not by any stretch of the imagination a flower child or extreme liberal... now or then.

---I am not going to defend him , not sure what really happened but you right... the four punks that broke into the house of the NFL player from the Redskins was not going to kill anyone either... just "harmless" theives...... but they did. ---Comparing Martha Stewart to the Enron guys is like comparing a kid that steals a piece of gum to Al Capone. She made less than $100,000 ......they took BILLIONS and ruined people's lives, cost them their jobs and even worse cost a lot of hard-working retired people their pensions and health care. Most are way to old to work or recover a fraction of what they lost. Many are now having to depend on their children to support them........ this happened to people who never worked for Enron but worked for companies that were aquired by Enron...... who then raided all the assets. Guess who Enron furished an airplane during the 2000 elections.....

geeeezz... that took a lot of work....or at least it looks like it did.

Our next opponent (Southern) has a 1-6 record. Their only win is over that "powerhouse" SMU. hahahahaha. They have exceeded 50 points only twice... against SMU and Paul Quinn (the other other Dallas County powerhouse, they lost that one). Our game is on Monday..

Iowa STATE is Big-XII... Iowa is Big-10 ... hard to keep to northern schools apart.....LOL

If it means we get to sign all the best athletes in the North Texas area [none to Tech, UT, and A&M, etc. ] then maybe it is a good idea.... --just kidding--