SCREAMING EAGLE-66

----Who was richest.???---Searched the web some and it seems both claims are out there... obviously Franklin and Washington were both extremely wealthy, Washington married most of his while Franklin earned his. The History channel made the Franklin claim, that is where I heard it but th seems to be claimed as true. ---Washington's size may have been a factor in being chosen as General , also his wealth and personallity... but he unlike most of the men at Philadelphia, he had some military experience and had been in combat during the French and Indian War. Again a couple of Frenchmen helped Washington in organizing our military, Lafayette and Rochembeau. --Franklin had a lot of talent... including chasing women... and charming the Royal court into doing what he wanted.

---I saw a lot of it... It was very good and presented a lot more mature look at the revolution than what is presented in most public school classes. These were imperfect men that risked everything to succeed in creating a new country which was totally different that anything that had existed until then (no royal or dominating family). The economy of each state was very different as was their founding background, they were far from unified. ---Had they failed, they would have all been hung for treason against England. As Ben Franklin said. "We must hang together or we will hang separately". All had everything to lose... most people do not realize that Ben Franklin was the wealthiest man in America at the time because of his publishing and inventions. He was one of few Americans that was well known in Europe and then because of his scientific work. Because of this he had the best chance of success in France and plus he understood how to get things accomplished there. We were lucky to have so many with so much ability to get things done. --I know Rick (who started this thread) hates France, but without their support, especially the blockade of Yorktown which prevented resuppling or evacuation of British troops, it may have been impossible. France (Napolean actually) sold us most of the land west of Mississippi and even the War of 1812 occured because of France. Napolean (France) was at war with Britain and we became involved... this really is not mentioned much in our history classes. Also who provided the cannons to Andrew Jackson at New Orleans in 1814? --- Jean Lafitte, a French-Texas pirate. Most of the British killed were the result of those cannons. There is a lot to dislike about France but we have owed a lot to them. They are very independent and don't like others telling them what to do.. which includes the USA ( been there) . SE-66 whose grandfather's and gr-grandfather's middle name was Lafayette because the family (English name and background) served under the Marquis de Lafayette in the revolution around Frederickburg, Va.

---Well if you don't have any respect for your school's conference (can apply to oneself as well) .... how can expect anyone else to have any?? That is part of the problem with too many alums and potential fans.. It has always bothered me about people who think people or teams that must be the greatest or else they are on the level of cow manure. For example I never understood people who rip Super-Bowl losers as being awful teams and worse than dirt. Plus if you don't like what people think about you... then do something about it... in this case.. win a lot and see what happens.

---Don't know about this one but too many parents lack the courage to say "NO" when dealing with their kids. Unless this was extremely well supervised (doesn't appear to have been) they should have said no. [raised three kids, taught in secondary public school] Most of the kids I have seen get in trouble fall into one of two groups... homes with no supervision...or.... homes with way too much parental control and the kid never learned to make good decisions on their own and go nuts when given a little freedom. It also explains why so many flunk out of college early, they don't have the maturity and self-discipline to handle everything now that Mom and Dad aren't there. ---15 year olds may look rather mature but when you consider what they were like two years earlier, you realize it is unlikely that many are mature enough to handle many questionable or difficult situations, especially when dealing with someone a few years older.

Dallas drafted these during the 80's....See any big names in their first 6 rounds.??.. This is why Landry did not win more... Hershall Walker, Jeffcoat, and Gene Lockhart, seem to be the best known ones and Walker never really did that well for Dallas . Those were terrible drafts, Landry (who had little say in the draft, Schram did) did well considering the talent that was walking in the door. In 1988 (his final draft) Michael Irvin and Ken Norton appeared, he had them one year. Two or three names should jump out at you from every year... lately the Boys have done well in trades, free agents, and undrafted players (Romo), not so much in the draft except 2005---D.Ware, M.Barber and M.Spears. 1987 - Dallas Cowboys 1 12 Danny Noonan DT Nebraska 2 39 Ron Francis DB Baylor 3 68 Jeff Zimmerman G Florida 4 95 Kelvin Martin WR Boston College 5 124 Everett Gay WR Texas 6 151 Joe Onosai -- Hawaii 1988- 1 18 Mike Sherrard WR UCLA 2 33 Darryl Clack RB Arizona State 3 74 Mark Walen DT UCLA 4 100 Max Zendejas K Arizona 6 140 Thornton Chandler TE Alabama 6 150 Stan Gelbaugh QB Maryland 6 158 Lloyd Yancey -- Temple 1985 - Dallas Cowboys 1 17 Kevin Brooks DE Michigan 2 44 Jesse Penn LB Virginia Tech 3 76 Crawford Ker G Florida 4 103 Robert Lavette RB Georgia Tech 5 114 Herschel Walker RB Georgia 5 119 Matt Darwin -- Texas A&M 6 144 Kurt Ploeger DE Gustavus Adolphus 6 157 Matt Moran T Stanford 1984 - Dallas Cowboys 1 25 Billy Cannon LB Texas A&M 2 40 Victor Scott DB Colorado 3 81 Fred Cornwell TE USC 4 110 Steve DeOssie LB Boston College 5 113 Steve Pelluer QB Washington 5 137 Norm Granger RB Iowa 6 152 Eugene Lockhart LB Houston 6 166 Joe Levelis -- Iowa 1983 - Dallas Cowboys 1 23 Jim Jeffcoat DE Arizona State 2 50 Michael Walter LB Oregon 3 77 Bryan Caldwell DE Arizona State 4 108 Chris Faulkner TE Florida 5 135 Chuck McSwain RB Clemson 6 162 Reggie Collier QB Southern Mississippi 1982 - Dallas Cowboys 1 25 Rod Hill DB Kentucky State 2 53 Jeff Rohrer LB Yale 3 81 Jim Eliopulos LB Wyoming 4 101 Brian Carpenter DB Michigan 5 109 Monty Hunter DB Salem (WV) 5 137 Phil Pozderac T Notre Dame 6 143 Ken Hammond -- Vanderbilt 6 165 Charles Daum -- Cal Poly-S.L.O. 1981 - Dallas Cowboys 1 26 Howard Richards T Missouri 2 53 Doug Donley WR Ohio State 3 81 Glen Titensor G Brigham Young 4 91 Scott Pelluer LB Washington State 4 108 Derrie Nelson LB Nebraska 5 137 Danny Spradlin LB Tennessee 6 163 Vince Skillings -- Ohio State 1980 - Dallas Cowboys 3 78 Bill Roe LB Colorado 3 80 James Jones RB Mississippi State 4 105 Kurt Petersen G Missouri 5 133 Gary Hogeboom QB Central Michigan 6 162 Timmy Newsome RB Winston-Salem State 7 189 Lester Brown -- Clemson -----1975----- has to be their best, Most made the team and played several years. 1975 - Dallas Cowboys 1 2 Randy White DT Maryland 1 18 Tom Henderson LB Langston 2 44 Burton Lawless G Florida 3 70 Bob Breunig LB Arizona State 4 90 Pat Donovan T Stanford 4 96 Randy Hughes DB Oklahoma 5 113 Kyle Davis C Oklahoma 6 148 Roland Woolsey DB Boise State 7 173 Mike Hegman LB Tennessee State 8 200 Mitch Hoopes P Arizona 9 226 Ed Jones DB Rutgers 10 252 Dennis Booker -- Millersville 11 278 Greg Krpalek -- Oregon State 12 304 Chuck Bland -- Cincinnati 13 330 Herbert Scott G Virginia Union 14 356 Scott Laidlaw RB Stanford

Dallas Picks: one Big XII ( Aggie) one Sunbelt (MTSU) one Southeast (Arkansas) one Big East (South Florida) one ACC (Georgia Tech) one WAC (Boise State) Houston: one Big XII (Texas) one Pac-XII (Washington) one Big X (Minnesota) one Big East (West Virgina) one Ohio Valley, I-AA, (Eastern Kentucky) two ACC (Virginia Tech, both) Lots of variety.

----I have never bought into higher speeds decrease MPG except very high speeds. I did not see any differece in MPG when the limit was 55 than later when it went to 70. It might in some cars/trucks but not in the ones I owned. ---Ethinol is a poor replacement for gasoline. Besides diverting corn/plant production to fuel raises the price of food including grain fed to animals which become food. ... No biofuel please. --- Price will dictate drilling... there is quite a bit going on but nothing like about 1980 which oil prices collapsed overnight and people in the oil businness went bankrupt along with other people who were located in the oil fields [banks, construction, lumberyards, plumbing companies, etc., could not sell houses even repos after people left the area]. They are much more careful and conservative now after seeing what happened before. This deal looks more permanent as long as the Asian ecomomy continues to expand. --- Not sure I agree with Rick fully about mpg but I do agree with him about these guys in cities who hit the gas to get to the next red light and just stop are nuts, that really uses a lot of gas for no purpose. Just getting there slower gets down the road just as fast and uses less gas than quick accelerations and speeding into stoplights...just coast.

--In Parcell's last year, the fumbled field goal attempt (Romo) cost the Cowboys a playoff victory over Seattle... Seattle made it to the Super Bowl. That sounds like a contender to me.

Looks as if they are cleaning house.. These were cut Thursday... but Patrick is apparently still hanging in there. Looks as if they well be going after defense and maybe WRs an not running backs... Maybe he will hang on. Miami Dolphins : Tuff Harris CB Cut Jereme Perry CB Cut Kerry Reed WR Cut Mark Washington LB Cut Chandler Williams WR Cut Cameron Worrell S Cut Casey Bramlet QB Cut Marcello Church LB Cut Parcell seems to believe it is possible to win with a good defense and barely decent offense... The reverse never seems to work... see NT 2007. Considering Ricky Williams is still in the mix, you never know, which Ricky will show up or will he at all. Their QB situation is not that great either so look for that to adressed before any RBs are considered. Also since their first pick is an offensive lineman perhaps that signals they are going to what Parcells like to do... run the ball.

-- I do agree that there are a lot of busts maybe more than successful ones. I disagree that it is popularity contest.... these teams want to win and go for who they think will do well (and keep their jobs intact) . They do sometimes buy in the media hype about how good a players is. Some of the teams are poor judges of talent and often just look at stats such as speed, size, and performance in college relative to their competition. . Great in college may not be enough when facing faster, smarter, and larger players. That may work some for some positions but not for others. Marino was trashing that lately especially for the QB position which is more about leadership and making good decisions. Some look good on paper but determination and work ethic often puts them far ahead of others that get by on just natural ability but don't try near as hard or can be out-smarted.. that is largely why so many draft failures occur... ---Only three #1 picks since 1978 (30 years) have made the NFL Hall of Fame... Earl Campbell, John Elway, and Troy Aikman. Peyton Manning who is still active likely will. Also two #2 picks have been HOF players: Laurence Taylor, and Eric Dickerson. Dorsett and Randy White were #2's and made it from 1977 and 1975.

--It is no cinch that he will play for anyone... The NFL has not reinstated him. It appears that the Cowboys are becoming the new Raiders...by taking everyone's rejects. I did not have any problem with the "Tank" deal ( some of what he was guilty of was actually legal in Texas and in Ariz. where he grew up , gun possession) and TO is just an prima-dona idiot, not a criminal, but not so sure about this one... this guy can't seem to stay away from being checked on by the police. I am afraid if the Boys get too many of these guys that the "wheels will come off". We definitely are past the Tom Landry era now (squeaky clean or gone). I am not so sure anyone can trust anything this guy says.

--- Some of those Big XII teams travel with an enormous band also and the Bowl money is used to pay for them as well.

---At 18 people legally become an adult... I don't care where they come from... Once they enter a college environment they have the opportunity to change and pick a new group of friends since their old ones aren't around them. It would not shock me to learn that he wasn't much a student and was completely overwhemed by college classes. Also he likely wasn't the super-star he had been in HS and perhaps just could not handle the lack of attention either that he had received while in high school (not just to athletes). I taught in public schools a long time and some people just fall apart once that happens in the "real" world and they are no longer anything special and just one of the herd. It even happens to some kids who were very mature in junior high and athletic superstars but while in HS suddenly become average at best in athletics. Guess he will get to grow-up behind bars.

--- The most accurate statement of the day. I spent 30 years in a public school classroom (mostly 8th and 9th grade) and still teach college classes. After seeing all the things I have seen you get a different perspective. We have religious groups that oppose all birth control, the religious nuts at El Dorado (they claim to be Christian) that try to see how many kids (and wives) they can have, and those groups that oppose abortion in ALL cases... including 12-13-14 year old girls, druggie or alcoholic moms, and many other terrible situations too numerious to name. The resulting kids ( and mothers) are doomed from the start. Sometimes there just is no good solution unfortunately, just better ones. Those who oppose it should contribute lots of money and personal time to help those abused and neglected kids, either that or just shut up. . Unfortunately usually their actions don't support their mouth. Adoption may be an option but many "moms"will not give the kid up and many are so messed up that no one wants take them. I know this is not football but has any of thread been football.? ... It is not football season and most threads tend to wonder a bit anyway.

---Think about what you just said.... If we drill in our domestic oil fields (there is a limited supply of oil) and use every bit of it up.. (we could in 50-100 years) then what do we do*.?? The Middle East and other foreign countries would then have an absolute monoply on oil and we would be in one hell of a fix. You don't want to think what they would charge when we had no other options. I live in West Texas where we now have to drill 1000's of feet deep to maybe find it and then have to pump it up.. It is terribly expensive to do (millions to drill each well). Middle Eastern oil is usually not so deep and it does not have to be pumped either (remember those Kuwait fires after the Gulf War) it just flows to the surface. Production of that oil is very cheap compared to ours. Cheap American oil is now all used up... Obviously you are not in or near people in the oil bidness. ---I do agree that Congress can spend its time on more pressing issues that college football... the war in Afganistan and also Iraq (that one I think was a stupid idea.. where are those WMD that he KNEW existed) and the economy-- for example. What makes anyone think Congress would improve the situation in college athletics if they became involved. * I won't be alive but my grandkids should be. If the above post are thinking oil is a monopoly..... there is a lot of oil stock for sale on Wall Street, buy some and be part of that monopoly, I know I do. There was once a "Windfall Profit Tax" that applied to old oil wells (that is where the obscene profits are, not new wells or current supplies) but it has been repealed..... and we have group of politicans that constantly promise no new taxes (even to cooporations). ...... and our schools get worse and tuition climbs at colleges. You get what you pay for. ..enjoy

--You must be too young to remember the George Allen era... No self-respecting Texan was a fan of Warshington* then. *Landry pronounciation.

huh..??

--- Most people have no clue what is really going on in this world and what public servants such as the police, teachers, social workers, have to see and deal with. Those domestic cases can be the most dangerious. There are a lot emotions flowing and you never know what some idiots will do. They want to you to fix the situation but not really do anything to the other person sometimes. We lost a couple of policemen in Odessa this year during one. They can be rather calm one minute and violent and crazy a minute later. Just be careful. Tough job to assess what is really going one and what needs to be done..

--I really hate it when it proves to be correct.... [ note last year's scores ]

WAC....never... I am getting a headache.... that is an awful choice. ...I guess some of us miss Utah State etc. We would even get less media attention by playing west into time-zones that play games ending after the East Coast and Middle America (most of the population) goes to bed and their papers are published. I can't think of a worst choice.

QUOTE(meangreenacct @ Apr 4 2008, 04:36 PM) Rick, I would believe that. However, using average income is a bit misleading. Kind of like when Bill Gates is in a room with 30 people, the average wealth of each person may be a billion dollars. I think a more comparable stat would be based on median income, which I doubt the median income has kept up with gas prices. --Interesting.... I do teach stat and that is one of the examples I use to demonstrate how stats can be misleading or corrupted by politicians or industry or others.. I had never heard anyone else use it... Gates was a kid when I was in college. That why standard deviation should be quoted with mean when it is used so one can tell how much variation in the stats there are. I agree.. median is usually the best "average" to use to give a true picture when talking about average. It is the toughest to corrupt or mislead and is the one usually quoted in newspapers, magazines etc. . ---Not so sure about 80's but here goes mid 60's... Min wage: $1.15 bought 3-4 gallons of gas, 11 cokes, even a movie ticket and perhaps a coke to drink. Min wage now about $6.25? which buys almost 2 gallons of gas, maybe 8 cokes (usually less), maybe a movie ticket but probably not. The largest problem is that the min wage had not been raised from $5.15 in more than 10 years until recently when Congress changed some. Things were really bad for those people until recently when it was raised some and it still isn't good. The really poor can barely make it now. ...although instead of a better wages for them we have lots of government programs.. which somewhat discourges them working for min wage since it is so low (some just turn to crime because min working doesn't pay the bills). I would like to see a better min. pay and less programs.. we would all be better off. ---Min wage for a teacher in 1966 would buy about 13,000 gallons of gas.... now it will by about 10,000. Again the last 6 years the state of Texas has done about nothing for education and educators.. just cut funding which has increased tuition for college and local taxes for public schools. ---The huge difference is in electronics... worlds cheaper now. ... due to the microchip and circuit boards. Color TVs that are now pretty nice can be bought much cheaper than they cost then and todays are much better besides. ---I think gasoline is higher now (and will get worse) ..... largely because much of Asia with its huge population is modernizing. ie. buy: oil stock (I do). The way Reagan and Carter equalized it somewhat was the "windfall profit tax" on old oil wells... doubt it will happen now with the current group in power in Washington.. policy: no new or reinstated taxes and worse schools because of it (either that or higher local property taxes). Even the state of Texas has removed some taxes on the oil industry since Perry/Craddick took power. The regular citizen has had no cuts in what he pays. ( taxes based on sales which includes beer, liquor, tobacco, and gasoline) The Windfall Profit Tax was eliminated after oil prices dropped so low that no one was even paying it anymore.. not much if any profit at $8-12 per barrel which it was during much of the 90's. Midland now... unemployment 2.5%... mostly those who can't pass drug tests or have a criminal past. House prices rapidly climbing... help wanted everywhere.... but most people can't move here because of housing costs and lack of affordable housing. Repo housing is unheard of locally.

---Ten years ago oil dropped to $8 per barrel... no one was about to build anything at those prices. and the price had been dropping for many years... in fact many marginal older refineries were closed and dismantled rather than updated and repaired.. (one north of Abilene for one, Cosden). One small one in Wickett (near Odessa) was as well.... there are many more. You can't expect companies to build them or even keep them running at those prices... so they disappeared. I remember paying 79 cents a gallon on a trip to Galveston in 1995 or 96. (it was commonly about 89 cents then) oil companies were not making much money at all (I live in Midland) and were suffering with a lot of cutbacks. ---Don't blame companies or even politicians for this deal... either party.... With the modernization of China, India, and others --the demand has skyrocketed and they they have now competing for international oil as well as us. Not much more supply and a lot more demand has driven up prices. Plus most people think gasoline when they they oil.... oil is also the base chemical in plastic, carpets, roofing, asphalt roads, clothing, synthetic cloth, and many other things. It is not just gasoline and diesel. Gasoline taxes in Texas is over 30 cents.... and used to maintain and build roads. That 79 cent gasoline had less than 49 cents left to cover drilling, refining, transportation and a small profit for the station/store that sold it. that left about nothing for oil companies during that era. (often a loss in the case of some oil wells which are very expensive to operate... they are 1000's of feet deep) A well in West Texas cost millions each to drill. Middle Eastern oil is oftne not so deep and it just flows out without pumping---remember the fires after the Gulf War shooting into the air... much cheaper production costs. Don't blame the environmentalists for this deal... they are just a small factor....a very small one.

---The Big Spring refinery has dropped production drasticly.... it blew up and is out of commission. It will be back on line in several months. Could it be that you are quoting stats of reduced production because of this. It is the largest inland refinery in the USA.

---This is a good news/bad news situation. The good news is that students/families are more likely to owe nothing or at least less by going to North Texas compared to private schools... which rarely are worth any extra cost. The state places are similiar in cost (at least on campus) ... and I would expect the real difference is location more than actual school expensives. Austin is not a cheap place to live for example. The bad news is that some people are equating expense and quality which is not always true about anything. If that is the case then the school in Dallas is the greatest place in Texas and we all know that isn't true...unless your goal is to develop "attitude problems".

Like it or not.. we are rivals.... we compete for media attention, fans, and recruits.... even if we do not play on the field.