SCREAMING EAGLE-66

---Don't you have to win a lot and finish in the top three to get one of those medals???? Does a "titainium medal" mean you finished in a tie?? Inquiring minds want to know. ---I am betting on some METAL other than those.... they are sort of expensive and likely to be torn off by Vandals [ Which also means we can't schedule Idaho ]. I do hope it is not the "unobtainium metal" as was mentioned earlier.

Can you say $$$$$$$$$... it is not about quality football or anything deserved. The teams that might finish 9th will be looking for easy non-conf. wins to qualify.

---GMG is now an educational site (on a football thread no less) .... I had no clue either.

---It seems this guy is bit too harsh considering the "audience" reading this is in Denton. he should always consider where he is before opening his mouth and perhaps could say the same thing without "ticking" everyone off. I still think the same situation may exist at least one more year because Dodge has "lost" players from the DD era this past season. This penality may have served as a wake-up call for his staff to keep those athletes in school even if you did not recruit them or really want them. Those that were lost this year could hurt us for 1-3 more years. Coming out of the HS ranks (instead of college coaching) he may not have fully realized the importance of this. --- It was not said but I expect the current staff to now make a better effort to keep these guys in school and also to recruit players who are more interested in being students and graduating. Many of those lost (that counted on this past report) were lost prior to our new facilities across I-35. That should also be helping now that athletes can be monitored better on progress and class attendence. This is not just about keeping just starters eligible but all players on scholarship going to classs and graduating. This likely what RV was implying.

---This could really get strange... This would cause the Big East to have 17 basketball playing teams in ONE CONFERENCE! .... way too many in my opinion and apparently in the eyes of some of the announcers during March Madness..... I doubt the basketball only teams are wanting this to happen. Could this be the beginning of the Big East East breaking up into two conferences (which I think will eventually happen) ..... those who play football and those who don't (8 of each of those teams, at present). ---This could start another chain of conference realignments. The football half of the big East would likely want 10 teams which would give them 9 conference games and 3 non-conf. games. If Memphis is one, who is second and from where, CUSA or the Belt.??? They would want one with a pretty good basketball history as well as football. Tulsa might make sense but it is so far from the others. In any case if it happens CUSA would change some and the Belt might lose and add some teams... I am sure Texas State is smiling a bit over this one, because some teams in the Belt may disappear to CUSA or somewhere and openings could occur. Stay tuned on this one--- it could become very complicated.

Tulane????... the Green Wave.

---Their or daze that yew wonder if thay ever sawed tha inside off a Anglich klassroome. The funnie thang is them calls sumwon an idiot and darms near proves that thay am wons. and such manners-- LOL. By the way... great picture... and the comment about the personal attack is great too... the self punishment was enough. [We can always hope they received their English credits elsewhere]

--I doubt it... North Texas will win......LOL... ( you have to think like someone from West Texas, every loss is an upset )

--Not sure if this is how you meant it but it is a big deal to lose those schlolarships..... How many times in the NFL does a late round draft choice turn out the one of the best? [brady was sixth, about 150 players deep in the draft] How many walk-ons make the team and do very well? Beasley Reece did for Fry and made the team and later played ten years or so in the NFL. A lot of those last "ships" that are given out late often turn out to be one of the best players from the group. It can really hurt. I believe Patrick Cobbs was one of the last given out that year. ---Part two, it just looks bad when you go recruiting next year for that to have happened. It sort of gives the message that we are concerned about only his playing ability and don't care if he gets an education. ----Having said that.. wonder what will happen at USC.... they now have a basketball player who took a lot of money and had a plasma TV in his dorm room despite the fact he came from a family of limited means...... and that comes on the heals of the Reggie Bush deal a couple of years ago where is family had a very nice house provided to them while he was at USC. Doubt the NCAA has the courage to do to USC what they did to SMU or even what they have done to some others.

---Sound like he has been making a lot of bad decisions (financial and otherwise). Why should he be hired as college coach... there are a lot of current high school and community college coaches that would like to coach at a university as well. They have experience, he has very little. Why would they hire him? If he really want to coach, trying getting HS certified and see what happens. I would start in a small school program and try to move up by being successful. He needs to face reality, perhaps he did the right thing, but that doesn't mean he is qualified for a college job.

---Gotta to agree with Rick on this one.. There are a few things in life you don't second chances. You maybe get second chances for "one or two unfortunate incidents" of bad behavior but not for a string of regular bad behavior. That is one thing in life that often bothers me. Some people are just "too forgiving" and get the same again behavior when the guy (or kids) doesn't learn. This guy is no kid and isn't likely to change much. . One of my sons had a youth coach that had a history of such bad behavior and did it again and again and became so bad he was finally not even permitted to attend games, much less coach them. Found out later he had once coached in a HS and was ternimated there too. Most are just bullies and have a serious personallity problem. After being in public schools a long time I can assure you that you really don't want the type of guy around that badgers kids [seen some, they were soon gone and lousy coaches anyway]. Coaches need to be firm and have discipline but they also need to know when and how to behave themselves. Sounds as if he needs to get another occupation (and not be in charge of anyone). ---Second or third chances are ok for "questionable coaching skills" if his behavior is decent (maybe he gets better or talent changes) ... but not for having poor behavior. Too many parents are too tolerant with their kids and they get what they get. You can't imagine how often I have over-heard kids in my class claim "my parents won't do anything, they never do", so their ridiculous behavior continues. This guy to sit out of coaching a long time and learn people won't tolerate it... if not forever. --If you like him, perhaps you would not mind working for him, I wouldn't. The players have less freedom to walk away than we would from a job. [ I didn't see the stand situation , but my son and his friends did ]

---The Big-East at present has 16 members.... and only eight play football.. In some cases this seems to work, and sometimes it doesn't, but I think the MVC died (or changed greatly) largely because of the conflict of interest of those who played football wtih those that didn't. It now is a basketball conference without football (I don't know about other sports) . The SBC is different cat somewhat...It was a basketball conference for many years before it added football and we became a member. This is not really a new conference, it just added football and then we joined. After the last round of changes (when Utah State and NMSU left) we seem to have one member that really doesn't fit... Denver... which is far away from everyone.

--Exactly... His statements are close to the truth but not exactly as everyone else saw it... and maybe distorted some. GreyEagleOne may have told it better than I did but there is nothing that GreyEagle said that I don't agree fully with. Wichita after their plane crash in 1970 was never what they had been before and for several years after that they really suffered (all upperclassmen were gone) . They were rather weak when we left and never had a winning season until 1982... In 1986 they dropped football after I think MVC -football totally folded in 1985. Even MVC basketball is not what it was and they then added a lot of new schools including Southern Illinious and Indiana State (Larry Bird's college). Leaving the MVC was the right move. Not staying connected somehow to Memphis and Louisville may have been the mistake ...if it was possible. ---Fry was very disappointed at not being selected for a couple of bowl games (our attendence hurt us because Bowl committes liked large crowds especially in an era before ESPN and so much TV ) and one of those would have created a rematch at the Independence Bowl. We should have been selected maybe two of his years. However I really think the reason he left had more to do with not getting into the SWC and a bigger paycheck at Iowa State. --Perhaps my original statement should have read three colleges opposed our admission instead of three college voted against us... It seems no official vote was taken because it was obviously not going to pass with three against. SMU was the most vocal of the opposition group.

---Two things really matter... ------What is true, and what people think is true!! -------- This includes what a company is worth (stock prices) , how qualified or capable people are, people's reputations (esp girls) , and a lot of other things ...including this....

--Yep they are outstanding in their field... the are the ONLY school to have achieved the honor and being smart enough to receive the DEATH PENALTY....LOL.

--We have momentum???? ....We won two games last year and we won three the year before and even before that we won 2, 7 and 9.. ... Only twice in the history of North Texas have we lost 10 games and last year was one of them. Darn, I sure thought I had passing grades in Engineering Physics, we must have skipped that chapter.

----LOL.... I agree that Leach has the personallity of a stone fence and he is no Mr. America but he is one of the most educated coaches out there (Law Degree, Pepperdine) and his kids seem to do pretty well in school. Some here may not like the fact that he wins a lot but his games are fun to watch... and I haven't noticed him insulting us like that school in Dallas. No doubt he is a different cat with different stripes than most coaches but so what... he wins a lot and his players seem to like him and enjoy football...... that is what matters. --- Why hate Tech? They like to win and have fun doing it like most West Texans. Their "Guns Up" is no more annoying that "Gig-um"or the Horns "Hook'em". Granted Lubbock is no Garden of Eden (it even makes Midland look great because of all of their dust and dirt) but they do fill the stands despite a limited local population and remote location. Just be glad you don't live there (especially in March) . You might get a bit "gritty" too.

Yep... any player that has been lost this school year was not counted in this report... Dodge whether he is thrilled with DD recruits or not will have to live with them and try to keep them in school..... and not encourage them to just go away.... it could get worse next year or beyond if he does not succeed in keeping them in school and getting them to graduate.. Hate to tell you bad news but the truth is what it is. He needs to hang onto them and not encourage them to disappear. Coming out of HS coaching he may not have understood the rule this year but I bet this got his attention. He needs to recruit well and hang onto to them and keep even DD recruits in school or take a hit on scholarships.. This report Dodge had nothing to do with, all future reports he will, because those leaving (anyones recruits) will hurt us. Good athletes need to be recruited but they need to be decent students as well. Can't have one/two semesters and done students....doesn't matter why they leave.. grades, kicked off, unhappy, or what...or it could get worse.

---Not really.... just because there was no formal vote doesn't mean they did not oppose us. Why vote and put it on the record when it becomes obvious that it will not pass with the needed 7 votes. That happens all the time in Congress. It sure isn't exactly what was put out at the time.. The three could just as easily been obviously opposed to it and gave what ever public reason they want to say. SMU saying that we were inferior as an academic school fits the typical pattern of what they always claim (just another put-down) , after all they have always thought of themself superior to most places. I think this remark was very sugar coated from what I remember happening... Any old alums out there remember it otherwise??? --- or even a newspaper report from that time--- Fry still has some favorable relationship with SMU (former coach) and graduated from Baylor as their QB during the 1950's. . I doubt he would want to trash them if he could help it. Maybe we had a chance if he had stayed but it is believed one of reasons he left was it became clear to him we weren't going to be allowed in and also he wasn't getting as much fan/alum support that should have been there.. ---At that time Houston was still refered to by many from Houston as Cougar High and to say we had lower standards is nuts, after all the SWC admitted Houston. I know nothing about Houston's academic standards today. ---Note this article is exactly what I said about Arkansas and Texas supporting us...also Houston. Obviously the "academic standards issue" was not an issue with them and Texas is not exactly a college with poor standards. I think the rest I said is pretty much correct as well...

--About if not the same year we left... Louisville and Memphis left the MVC and I think Cincinnati had already left a couple of years earlier. We may have been the last to decide to leave... that I don't know. The MVC was coming apart or at least most of the football playing schools were. Lots of travel was part of it and not a lot of non-football schools in the league... Bradley, St. Louis and maybe some more. Wichita stayed but had recently lost its entire team to a plane crash at Loveland Pass, Colorado and was barely recovering from that. Tulsa was still there and NMSU and West Texas State had just joined.... again a long way from Louisville and Memphis. The MVC had a lot of problems at this point. It was not very stable at this point and the MVC football conference no longer exists. Otherwise... Houston had left the MVC many years earlier and been admitted to the SWC as a ninth team. The Pac-8 had just become the PAC-10. (added both Ariz. colleges from the WAC) . The NCAA had just changed the football season from a 10 game season to a 11 game season (one more game). NT was doing very well at this point in football and basketball and Fry expected the SWC to admit us to make the SWC 10 teams as was the Big-10 and Pac-10.. I think the SEC had 10 and the ACC was considering it... both Texas and Arkansas was on our side and wanted to go to ten teams and most of the others in the conference seemed to be ok with it. [they probably wanted another larger college since TCU and Rice especially were very small and very weak at this time, SMU was fairly decent but small, 5000?] That would mean 9 conference games and 2 non-conference games. Times were somewhat different in that there was no ESPN, and few games on TV and little TV revenue (radio and attendance mainly) and not so many across country games. ..... the SWC looked very promising. It was obvious that SMU did not agree but not so sure about TCU, Baylor, Rice, and Tech. Tech and Rice voted for us and the metroplex group decided they would not --likely because SMU convinced them they did not want a large state school in the area. I do not blame Fry at all.... it just did not work... it was worth the risk... and SMU convinced those other two to vote with them and we needed 7 votes, not just 6. ----This all from my memory so if any details are wrong I apologize. The history of MVC tells me that the Big East will eventually come apart... the football guys and the non-football members will eventually split in my opinion. It is huge--- 16 teams, and only eight play football.. It looks like an accident that is ready to happen. Even during March Madness I heard a few comments on how ridiculously large it is.

--Funny SMU story.... until lately there was a rusty looking beat-up car (1977?) that I regularly saw drivng around town with a fairly good-looking SMU sticker in the window (not that old a sticker) . I guess he thought he was advertising his alma-mater....... personally I thought it was making a statement about what an SMU education would do for a person.....LOL... Haven't seen it lately... guess the car doesn't run anymore....hahaha.

---On the surface this is likely very true.....BUT.... college athletics also causes people to contribute back to their schools in many other departments. This just can't be truely evaluated. Check out our donations to any department and then compare them with UT or A&M or other school our size with a high-profile athletic program.. Athletics is also cheap advertising... UTA was identical to us in size when I was in college (about 13,000) ... they have grown very little compared to us since dropping football..... Our enrollment has increased more rapidly since going back to I-A. I also think it help graduates in getting jobs as well when people have actually heard of the college.

---This is evolving into the big problem in education and what to do.. I have coached very little but spend 30 years in public school and even more years (obviously overlapping) in college classrooms, mostly evening classes... which I still am, some day classes now. . I just think college scholarships should be given to players who want and will benefit from an education and not just to those who just can play "whatever" ball game well and go to college for the glory and to have fun. I have no problem giving college scholarships to borderline students if they are basicly good guys and will work in the classroom and want to improve their lot in life.... I do if playing sports is all there is to them... I don't care how good they are. ---What you have described is the "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation in education. Keeping these "non-students" types in school often hurts the overall education of the real students who have to put up with these guys and some are sometimes influenced by them to do less. Option II: Kicking these guys out causes crime and problems in the streets. Most parents, real students, and teachers, don't really want them in classsrooms but the public in general understandably doesn't want them walking the streets either. This spring we had a guy sentenced locally who had been an extremely good basketball player (college material for sure, NBA maybe) but he was an outlaw. His HS coach did all he could do to help this kid.... he failed to turn him around. 10 years later he killed his own mom and now will spend the rest of his life in prison. My son and his friends were amazed by him and his ability but said he would likely die in prison... guess they were right. ---I don't fully agree with no-pass, no play because it discourages some from enrolling in more challenging classes, but the basic idea is sound. On this subject...give scholarships to those who at least will work hard to pass classes and benefit from a college education , not just play around and seek glory... --I may have put too much blame on DD, because the athletic dept in general needs to keep an eye on the guys and give help or see that they are somewhat forced to do what they need to do.. But these guys are legally adults and are responsible for themselves. The coach (DD) in this case should have recruited better and got kids that actually wanted an education, not just glory and a free meal. Don't blame Dodge a bitfor this one.... he may have "seen" them (not worked with them) their last semester but too much time had passed in their college years for him to get any blame. One thing for sure this may be a wake-up call to the present staff.... they may not have recruited them but they need to keep them in school and not run them off.. ---The NCAA rules are trying to help education....give scholarships to people who will benefit from an education. College teams should be filled with student-athletes not just athletes (who are going nowhere ). Don't take this as an insult but it is obvious from some these posts that they have never stood in front of a high school or college classroom and understand what problems are out there.

---It is a bit tough to judge the 1958 schedule by todays standards...... some teams have changed a great deal. For example Florida State and Miami weren't on anyone's radar then. Houston was not well known then but later improved and put into the SWC as team #9 and now is down some again. ---I too am a bit sad about losing the MVC teams especially when it comes to basketball... We are not even close to what we were then in status. The old MVC was great and constantly had several ranked teams. The games were fun and the crowds were really into them. ---I really like Hayden Fry but he gambled and we lost when we pulled out of the MVC, and went independent . We may have been invited to join the Metro with Louisville, Cincinnati, etc. which later became CUSA, I'm just not sure. He was certain we would be invited as the tenth member of the SWC... which would have changed everything. UT (Royal) and Arkansas (Broyle) really supported us. We lost out on a 6-3 vote and we only needed 7 votes. SMU, TCU and Baylor (all private schools and fairly close) voted against us. Sometimes the door opens and is never open again for a long time. SMU was very vocal about not wanting us as a member, I don't remember the others saying much. I think they feared a large state supported school in the same conference near them plus Fry was an ex-coach of SMU. I don't put any blame on Fry because it could have really paid off...... the trouble is... it didn't...... ---About 5 years later we were dropped to I-AA status..... I think it was more about being "forced" into I-AA than chosing it (crowd and stadium size were some of the issues) . Lamar and UT-Arlington were "forced down" also and their programs did not survive and they dropped football.. West Texas State kept football but at a much lower level of competition.

Again--READ CLOSELY.... the date said through 2007..... Dodge had nothing to do with these guys, he came in the spring of 2007 ...thus had no connection to what has happened. It is you that doesn't understand how the system works. Beside this year's graduation has even not happened yet so how could it have anything to do with what has happend this year under Dodge.... THINK...