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Rick, serious question - not trying to be a jerk. When I taught school for DISD (that socialist property known as public education) we put our money into the Teacher's Retirement Fund and were exempt from Social Security. Is that the rule for all government employees? Just curious how that works for firemen. And I have never been a fan of this bill. Any reform short of a single payer system or at the minimum, a public option - is just regulation. The insurance companies and drug makers were the biggest lobbyists FOR this bill because they will make some good bottom lines off of this crap. The only thing that passed on Friday was the right to buy insurance... from a for profit insurance company... How sad is it that we had to pass a law for that in a civilized country? NOW - Let's go shoot out some windows and tea bag one another, yee haw!

I saw on the news today that Social Security will now be broke (out of money) by 2037. So every paycheck that I put in that 6.7% is going out immediately (to my parents). You know - there was a guy that I voted against back in 2000... but I sure wish that his "lock box" would have caught on and our tax structure would have stayed the same. I can't stand that I will not get the same benefit out of the program that the last 3 or 4 generations have. What is the solution to the Baby Boom dilemma? Raise the amount we put into it? Raise the cap that is taxed (I think it currently only taxes the first $80K for a single person). Or should the age be raised to like 70? Or a combination of all? Social Security is not a perfect system but is something that is really important for our seniors... Your thoughts? By the way, the sooner we get people working the better - those are tax payers that can contribute more to the pot.. Unemployment numbers have dropped to the lowest level in 6 quarters as of today's latest report. Thank god the economy is slowly turning around.

Yep - I will captain the Green team. We can use the same rules as last year, draft for the players 2 weeks before the game. No ringers unless it is agreed upon. The biggest problem that we had last year was wrangling up the actual flags from Rec Sports. I think that Justin (UNT 92 Fan) came through on that but maybe it was Nightmare.... There are some traditions that go with the game, Andrew Smith picture, prayer, donation of proceeds to his scholarship fund, etc... This game has certainly grew legs since we had the first one in 2001 or 2002... I can't remember what the board was bickering about but everyone was arguing. Harry got onto the board and said something like "You all just need a football fix and it is a long way till Fall" - and the game was born. Hard to believe that this will be the 7th or 8th game... Whatever we need to do to keep the tradition going, let's do it.

We have really got to improve out OOC schedule. Any game that keeps White to 3 points will likely be a loss, you know? Stiil - very proud to see the Mean Green in the big dance today, despite the outcome.

I believe that we had two captains and two honorary captains/coaches last year. Green Nightmare and I were the captains for the Green team (I think that I am remembering that right)... does anyone remember the two from the white team?

Heck yeah - let's do this!

Just wanted to thank all of the fans that gave the Mean Green a somewhat homecourt advantage in this game. It looked like about 500 or so on the TV, not sure how close that guess is - but that was my guess when watching... which was about 480 more than Troy. They say that a home team has a built in 3 point advantage... we won by 3 (I think we won by 3 in all 3 games, right?)... anyways, thank you to the road warriors that made the trip and helped the men win the tourney. You were definitely a factor in the outcomes of these games and I just wish that I could have been there with you.

Hmmm, I am not so sure about this now. I did some searching on the Net and Exhibition games DID NOT count towards final records until recently. Here is our last Big Dance schedule/results according to the NCAA (as you can see, after we played Texas College - we won the game - but our record was still 0-0 (no win, no loss): Schedule Date Time Opponent# Rank# Site TV Result Attendance Record Exhibition Nov. 7, 2006 7:00 PM Texas College Super Pit • Denton, TX W 92-71 N/A 0-0 Regular season Nov. 10, 2006 7:00 PM Cameron* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 92-71 1,047 1–0 Nov. 12, 2006 12:00 PM @ Charlotte* Dale F. Halton Arena • Charlotte, NC W 90-72 5,129 2–0 Nov. 15, 2006 7:00 PM UT-Arlington* Super Pit • Denton, TX L 83-81 1,824 2–1 Nov. 18, 2006 7:05 PM @ Rice* Autry Court • Houston, TX W 71-69 1,496 3–1 Nov. 21, 2006 7:00 PM Tulsa* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 65-63 1,947 4-1 Nov. 25, 2006 7:00 PM Texas State* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 95-77 1,795 5–1 Nov. 29, 2006 7:00 PM @ Nebraska* Bob Devaney Sports Center • Lincoln, NE L 76-57 9,787 5–2 Dec. 6, 2006 7:00 PM @ Stephen F. Austin* William R. Johnson Coliseum • Nacogdoches, TX W 76-70 1,638 6-2 Dec. 9, 2006 2:00 PM @ Nicholls State* Stopher Gym • Thibodaux, LA W 74-71 224 7–2 Dec. 16, 2006 2:00 PM @ New Orleans Human Performance Center • New Orleans, LA L 97-93 2OT 458 7-3 Dec. 19, 2006 7:00 PM @ Western Kentucky E. A. Diddle Arena • Bowling Green, KY W 86-85 N/A 8-3 Dec. 22, 2006 2:00 PM Jarvis Christian* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 94-70 941 9-3 Dec. 28, 2006 7:00 PM Belhaven* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 93-66 1,227 10-3 Dec. 30, 2006 7:00 PM Denver Super Pit • Denton, TX W 91-79 1,880 11-3 Jan. 6, 2007 7:30 PM @ Arkansas-Little Rock Jack Stephens Center • Little Rock, AR L 86-75 3,312 11–4 Jan. 6, 2007 3:05 PM @ Arkansas State Convocation Center • Jonesboro, AR L 84-60 2,961 11-5 Jan. 11, 2007 7:00 PM Louisiana-Lafayette Super Pit • Denton, TX W 73-72 OT 2,387 12-5 Jan. 18, 2007 6:30 PM @ Florida International Pharmed Arena • Miami, FL L 67-66 644 12–6 Jan. 20, 2007 7:00 PM Florida Atlantic Super Pit • Denton, TX W 76-59 3,264 13–6 Jan. 25, 2007 7:00 PM Middle Tennessee Super Pit • Denton, TX W 66-53 1,323 14-6 Jan. 28, 2007 1:30 PM South Alabama Mitchell Center • Mobile, AL L 90-89 2,325 14-7 Feb. 1, 2007 7:00 Troy Super Pit • Denton, TX W 98-57 1,384 15-7 Feb. 3, 2007 7:00 PM Western Kentucky Super Pit • Denton, TX W 74-70 3,521 16-7 Feb. 8, 2007 7:00 PM New Orleans Super Pit • Denton, TX L 64-62 2,461 16-8 Feb. 10, 2007 2:30 PM @ Louisiana-Monroe Fant-Ewing Coliseum • Monroe, LA L 66-62 2,758 16-9 Feb. 15, 2007 8:00 PM @ Denver Magness Arena • Denver, CO W 78-65 1,024 17-9 Feb. 17, 2007 7:00 PM Arkansas-Little Rock Super Pit • Denton, TX W 74-69 3,112 18-9 Feb. 22, 2007 7:00 PM Arkansas State Super Pit • Denton, TX L 74-71 2,174 18-10 Feb. 24, 2007 7:05 PM @ Louisiana-Lafayette Cajundome • Lafayette, LA W 72-70 2,931 19-10 2007 Sun Belt Men's Basketball Tournament Feb. 28, 2007 7:00 PM Louisiana-Lafayette Super Pit • Denton, TX (First Round) W 93-78 2,778 20-10 Mar. 4, 2007 3:00 PM vs. Louisiana-Monroe Cajundome • Lafayette, LA (Quarterfinal) W 77-71 N/A 21-10 Mar. 5, 2007 6:30 PM vs. Middle Tennessee Cajundome • Lafayette, LA (Semifinal) W 59-52 N/A 22-10 Mar. 6, 2007 8:00 PM vs. Arkansas State Cajundome • Lafayette, LA (Championship) ESPN2 W 83-75 409 23-10 2007 NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament Mar. 16, 2007 11:30 AM vs. #5 Memphis New Orleans Arena • New Orleans, LA (First Round) CBS L 73-58 N/A 23-11 ____________________ Same thing with the next year (Win over Panhandle State was not counted): Date Time Opponent# Rank# Site TV Result Attendance Record Exhibition Nov. 10, 2007 7:00 PM Panhandle State* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 108-71 N/A 0-0 Regular season Nov. 10, 2007 7:30 PM Cameron* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 106-53 3,136 1–0 Nov. 14, 2007 7:00 PM Oklahoma State* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 82-73 6,793 2–0 Nov. 17, 2007 2:00 PM Indiana State* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 78-69 2,531 3-0 Nov. 21, 2007 7:00 PM @ UT-Arlington* Texas Hall • Arlington, TX L 72-64 1,289 3–1 Nov. 30, 2007 7:30 PM vs. Western New Mexico* Pan American Center • Las Cruces, NM (Lou Henson Classic) W 84-82 382 4-1 Dec. 1, 2007 9:30 PM @ New Mexico State* Pan American Center • Las Cruces, NM (Lou Henson Classic) W 75-72 2,626 5–1 Dec. 5, 2007 8:00 PM @ #5 Texas* Frank Erwin Center • Austin, TX L 88-72 10,913 5–2 Dec. 8, 2007 2:00 PM Hartford* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 105-97 2,157 6-2 Dec. 17, 2007 7:00 PM Southern University* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 79-58 2,218 7–2 Dec. 20, 2007 7:00 PM Centenary* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 67-54 1,826 8-2 Dec. 22, 2007 5:00 PM @ Denver Magness Arena • Denver, CO L 63-59 1,196 8-3 (0-1) Dec. 28, 2007 2:00 PM Texas A&M International* Super Pit • Denton, TX W 97-70 2,231 9-3 (0-1) Jan. 3, 2008 7:30 PM @ Troy Trojan Arena • Troy, AL L 91-88 1,936 9-4 (0-2) Jan. 7, 2008 7:00 PM Louisiana-Monroe Super Pit • Denton, TX W 78-57 1,667 10-4 (1-2) Jan. 10, 2008 7:05 PM @ Arkansas State Convocation Center • Jonesboro, AR W 74-63 3,097 11-4 (2-2) Jan. 12, 2008 7:00 PM Louisiana-Lafayette Super Pit • Denton, TX W 72-65 3,453 12-4 (3-2) Jan. 17, 2008 7:00 PM New Orleans Super Pit • Denton, TX L 83-61 3,410 12-5 (3-3) Jan. 17, 2008 6:00 PM @ Florida Atlantic FAU Arena • Boca Raton, FL L 86-81 768 12-6 (3-4) Jan. 27, 2008 2:00 PM @ Middle Tennessee Murphy Center • Murfreesboro, TN L 69-60 2,852 12-7 (3-5) Jan. 31, 2008 7:00 PM South Alabama Super Pit • Denton, TX W 70-68 3,218 13-7 (4-5) Feb. 2, 2008 7:00 PM Florida International Super Pit • Denton, TX W 60-57 3,122 14-7 (5-5) Feb. 7, 2008 7:00 PM Western Kentucky Super Pit • Denton, TX L 94-84 3,246 14-8 (5-6) Feb. 9, 2008 7:00 PM @ Arkansas-Little Rock Jack Stephens Center • Little Rock, AR L 84-82 4,834 14-9 (5-7) Feb. 14, 2008 7:00 PM Denver Super Pit • Denton, TX W 62-48 2,318 15-9 (6-7) Feb. 16, 2008 7:00 PM Troy Super Pit • Denton, TX W 90-64 2,834 16-9 (7-7) Feb. 20, 2008 7:30 PM @ Louisiana-Monroe Fant-Ewing Coliseum • Monroe, LA W 72-40 1,147 17-9 (8-7) Feb. 23, 2008 7:00 PM Arkansas State Super Pit • Denton, TX W 82-77 5,237 18-9 (9-7) Feb. 28, 2008 7:05 PM @ Louisiana-Lafayette Cajundome • Lafayette, LA L 63-58 3,684 18-10 (9-8) Mar. 1, 2008 7:00 PM @ New Orleans Human Performance Center • New Orleans, LA W 79-77 1,022 19-10 (10-8) 2008 Sun Belt Men's Basketball Tournament Mar. 5, 2008 7:00 PM Arkansas State Super Pit • Denton, TX W 85-63 4,631 20-10 (10-8) Mar. 8, 2008 9:15 PM vs. Western Kentucky Mitchell Center • Mobile, AL L 84-70 4,734 20-11 (10-8) _________________ So we actually had 24 wins in the 2006/2007 season but the exhibition game did not count... and we actually had 21 wins in the 2007/2008 season but the exhibition game did not count. But then again - CMJ is correct that a game against Cameron CAN count, because look at the 2008 season, we played them in game 2 of the regular season. So I guess that the confusion is just dealing with the elimination of exhibition games last year. They are completely gone now. Those games are now in the schedule in the same basic locations (at the beggining somewhere) to warm the team up and build confidence... but where they did not affect our record in the past - now they potentially could. After looking all this over - It is my opinion that we should not be playing these games/teams. If the NCAA selection committee looks at us as an 18 win team (after this game), that is really all that matters. You can call them exhibition or you can call them whatever you want but wins over these types of schools just don't really count. I am going to guess that the rationale from the NCAA selection committee is that these teams/programs have lower resources, different rules regarding admitting players like GPA's, different scholarship arrangements, and limited budgets... with all this playing a role - they must have decided that these games cannot be factored into the success of a season when selecting the 65 teams because otherwise a team would load up on these types of pansies. Kind of like Texas Tech does with IAA schools in football

Got it - I think - thanks guys. I can go back to work with some ammuntion tomorrow. From what I have learned - there are not just a set of records for the NCAA, there are a few different ones. And the NCAA selection committee does not count the wins. So his argument was in context to getting into the dance... and I guess that he is right. Those games did not help us and they might hurt us because we could have played 2 other teams to have 20+ wins and perhaps a higher RPI. So I guess that I was right and he was right... they count for some things but not for the post season (but I guess the whole purpose of the regular season is to get to the post season).

Ok so the NCAA selection committee does not consider our team to be a 20 win team, is that what you are saying George? When it comes to picking the field of 65 - they look at our record as 18 wins right now. Am I getting that right? What would happen if we had lost one of those games? Would that still show as a loss or would it just not be relevant?

I think that you are the one that told me that Court... but he pointed to Sagarin Rankings. So I looked it up, going into tonight's game - this is what they had for us: 165 North Texas = 71.95 17 8 67.43( 284) 0 0 | 0 2 | 72.60 156 | 70.96 179 So basically 17 wins and 8 losses. With tonight's win we get to 18. Does Sag use only Div I games because that is what is in the record books. The example that he kept going over was Trilli. Like - if we played Texas All Stars and SE Okl State during the Trilli years, we would always (at least) win those... but when you look up Trilli's records, those wins do not count. The argument is that the NCAA did away with exhibition games but did not change the way that they record win/loss records. Is it possible that the NCAA doesn't recognize NAIA schools because they are not NCAA participants and play by a completely different set of rules? Man, I think that you and I had this same conversation during a chat one night... lol. And you had me convinced but now I am not so sure.

Great game! A little worried at the half but this team showed the same consistent character that they have since mid January... when they really hit their stride... Bouncing back from the Arkie and Middle Tenn State losses really showed me that this is a resilient squad. Now I don't want to cause a ruckus... I really would simply like your opinions. I had a discussion with another NT grad today about tonight's game and I wanted to see how you all feel about his mindset. Do you consider this an 18 win team or a 20 win team? In my opinion (and only mine) - the two wins over Cameron and Southern count because the team played them and won them. According to my friend - they do not count (in the official NCAA records). Is that true? Like, are they not in the scorebooks? That was his argument - the games do not count for us but can count against us. I have no idea. Essentially that would make them lose-lose situations for everything but confidence and "feel good" press releases. Now - I do know that before the NCAA rules changed, those two games would have been called something like "exhibition" games or scrimmages or something. So did we used to count the scores of those exhibition games/scrimmage towards a milestone like a 20 win season marker? I honestly have no idea - does anyone know? Because he convinced me with the whole "exhibition" game argument - that they have never counted in the past and do not count now. I just don't know if he was right. I want to emphasize that both Rob's and my opinion is that the team is not done and has plenty of opportunity left to win 20 Div I games with the last game against ULM and the tourney ahead. I don't think that Rob was trying to take anything away from this team - he is a HUGE Mean Green basketball fan (much more into them than me) and he kept going on and on that they are playing AMAZING basketball. His asterisk was that they have a legitimate chance of hitting 20 wins in the 2nd round of the Belt tourney (granted they get a first round bye) but they are not quite there just yet. Thoughts? Is he right about how the NCAA keeps records? Would appreciate any feedback, thanks.

Well, why did they leave their previous schools? Have we been paying for their education this whole time? Also - it could be a discipline thing. Remember that Dodge had some issues with players partying too much his first year... it could be anything. But damaged goods from somewhere else is always going to be a risk. There has to be a reason that a Big 12 player decides to come to NT and sit out a year. I just hope that we haven't been paying for his school, room, and board this whole time.

Bob Hoffman: "The more you complain, the more you find things to complain about.

Is it possible that he is in school but no practicing with the team?

I understand beer law bud. That is all I did for the first 10 years of my career. We don't do it because A) Cost, it is too expensive to have a regular license and insurance (mostly insurance) for that place when it is only open 5 or 6 times a year... Possible kickback from the community (as it is we are pushing it by having the stadium look like one big beer billboard)... and C) it encourages people to join the private club that is Mean Green Club to get their drink on - where no insurance is needed because we are not (in theory) selling any alcohol, just charging a "storage" fee to hold the member's beer and keep it cold. I put a bid in to the AD way back in the day when State Club let their contract expire.. it is definitely legal but the concessions contractor would have to pay the dram shop insurance and that is based on square footage. When I shopped around, the lowest priced option made it nearly impossible to even break even on beer sales. The Alamodome obviously has their license for other events so it makes sense. This is a Texas thing, other states don't have this problem. If we had a big money lobby machine, we would get the law changed like the race track did (the property of the race track is split between two counties and the state had no way of issuing a license for a property in two counties before they changed the law). So I understand the law - just clarifiying why teams playing at pro stadiums and arenas hae a slight edge in the state of Texas. Thank you sir.

The Dome is pretty far from the UTSA campus. About as far as Texas Stadium was to us. Was that an advantage for us? How did that build school spirit? The one good thing about playing games in an outside venue is the ability to sell beer. The downside is that tailgating will be non-existent, students can't "stumble" to and from the game, pep rallies won't be very effective, etc. If they can get the community behind them and not rely on the students, they might be able to hit their 15K attendance each year. South Alabama is doing it. If they start losing after the 1st year of prep schools an NAIA teams, it could get ugly. Certainly will be interesting to watch. If you go to their one fansite, utsatailgaters - it shows the timeline for the last three or four years. Plan A was to raise $15 million. Plan B was to hire a coach and staff, and so on... facilities were in Plan C, scheduling came next. They have accomplished hiring the coach. Over the last four years, they have raised about $2 million, not even close to the goal. Now, they do have student fees and that will help tremendously. I think that the Indy announcement/press piece was a recruiting ploy. Those kids are all asking the same thing - when will we be FBS? Coker wants to sell them that he can get them there by their Junior or Senior year so that they were a part of building something from the ground up. I just don't think that is a realistic timeline. Like their other timelines, it is too aggresive and not realistic. They haven't hit any of their othr goals but they seem determined to get to FBS. So with all that said, I believe that they will eventually get there, probably just not by 2013. If they do pull it off, they will have lightning in a bottle and the Belt would be lucky to have them. We shall see!

They need 10 FBS games at home, 5 in year one and 5 in year 2 of transition. No way that Big 12 teams honor those contracts. They will let the roadrunner "run" on into town and then conveniently decide to not return the trip. They might get one or two of them to honor the deals but it is going to really tough to meet the 5 home game requirement (for 2 consecutive years) withot a conference. If just one school backs out, the timeline starts over - the 10 home games against FBS have to be in consecutive years.

Such a positive statement

The Pullman airport is about as big as Denton's. They do have commuter service for about $300 bucks round trip from Seattle or Boise but nothing from Dallas. So you have to buy a ticket to Boise or one of a couple places in WA... then another into Pullman. We just chartered busses when we were in the Big West. I suppose the football team could charter a plane into Pullman though. We would still need a bus when we got there and hotels are scarce. I was really responding to the availability of flights for fans and the non-football sports to attend a game in Moscow. The basketball team certainly can't charter a flight into Pullman. Nor can any of the other sports, they had to fly into either Boise or Washington and then charter a bus and drive. I have been there for a game, it's not a fun adventure. Very dreary trip actually. Boise is not as bad because you can get there via Denver (still need a stop to get there with a fare below $400 bucks)... but it sure is expensive... and like Pullman/Moscow, getting the other teams there for games is very expensive. Football has never been the problem with a WAC invite - it is all the other sports. The same goes for Logan, UT. The same goes for Las Cruces in a way - you have to fly into El Paso and then drive. The Belt is far flung but other than Troy - there is a major airport near or in every city. Is Miami far? Sure... but round trip airfare is half of any trip out west. Multiply that by 200 atheletes and you have significant travel costs. The only location with travel problems in the Belt is Troy. You have to fly to Montgomers and then bus it the rest of the way. But we have a reasonable travel partner for Troy because of the conference footbprint. Now - with all that being said, we are getting ready to build a new stadium and we will now have a much bigger budget. Maybe we can afford to be WACky in a couple of years if the Belt is showing insecurity. But how attractive would that WAC be if they lost Boise? What if they lost Boise, Reno, and Fresno? That is another problem with the WAC - everyone wants out.

Do kickers count? Our kicker recruit is like #18 in the nation

Totally agree about the MWC - if that invite were to come along, I think that we would all jump on it. I thought that you were alluding to the WAC overtures. No big deal. As far as the newspapers are concerned - its not just newspapers, its the local news - and perception. Try having a wathing party at the Pourhouse that starts at 10 pm. Ugh, what a nightmare. We get very little ink as is and cutting into that would just be another bad thing about being WACky. But we are on the same page... MWC would be a no brainer. The local news that we would miss would easily be replaced by the national news that we would pick up.

Flying the football team there isn't a problem. Football pays for itself. It is the other 15 or 16 sports that really drain a budget. I don't think that you can really compare a one time trip to Hawaii (which I am sure that Hawaii will pay them $250K for as there is no return trip) to a trip to Idaho whether it be Boise or Moscow. To get to Moscow - you actually have to fly into Washington, rent a car, and start driving... a long time. Playing them one time means that you probably have to stay up late to listen to the game and it doesn't get into the paper... playing them and other far flung teams on a regular basis means that you are not able to listen to or watch most of your games AND you rarely get to read about the game in the Sunday papers with all the other game write-ups. West Coast games are great for West Coast and Mountain time zones - they just don't fit in with Central time zone media... as we learned in the Big West days.

That's pretty cool... and with the timing, WKY can treat it like a "bowl" game. Fans can travel there before the holidays and the players can get a nice trip.

The rules have changed since then - in order for UTSA to even qualify to become a IA Independent - they have to have 5 FBS home games for two consecutive years. They might be able to fudge the attendance - if FAU/FIU can fudge it than anyone can get away with it... but they can't get around the scheduling requirements. I think that the reason we see schools moving up with a conference now is because that is their only way to move up. There are conferences talking about moving up as a group because there is no other way to hit that requirement. It is a strict requirement and I suppose that UTSA could buy 10 home games with Div I schools... or somehow schedule 3 for 1's over a decade to come up with 10 games (and hope that nobody breaks the contracts). I just don't see how they can move up without a conference, the rules are much different than back in the mid 90's for a reason. Oh, and there is a moratorium on schools moving up without a conference... that could be a problem, too