Pseudo Nym

*I believe his total buyout is $1.215 million

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I think the price for a quality coordinator goes up every day, we're battling in a market with some more prominent openings and we lost leverage the day it was announced that Bowen wouldn't be back. The better play would have been what Texas did, stay with your guy until you find the guy to replace them. (Hard to know for sure but the earliest SL probably thought about making a change was before the bowl game and the latest the week after) From ESPN Article: Del Conte said the three administrators served as the search committee and that in one of their earliest discussions, Eltife said, "How about that boy Sark?" Both Del Conte and Hartzell followed by saying he was high on their list, too. "Probably the first time I sat there, walked out of that meeting going, 'Holy cow,'" Del Conte said. "We actually agree. We had our guy." No one knew those three were meeting to replace Herman (his job was proclaimed safe) and when negotiating with Sark's folks had the leverage to say: "Look, we like you, we think you'd be an upgrade here, but here's what we're going to pay you, if you don't like it then we'll stick with our guy." - Basically, we don't need a coach but we've got a job for you if you want it, here are the terms. There's no doubt that if they fired Herman before identifying and coming to terms with a replacement then the market and negotiating power would have shifted away from Texas to the candidate, and the market would also adjust with "potential candidates" signing lucrative extensions, all the while driving up the cost of the hire to Texas. Our position now is moving from, we need a coach and it's a great opportunity with nowhere to go but up, to we desperately need a coach and it's good opportunity for you to advance your career. When you don't have Power 5 resources ($$), the economics, leverage, negotiating, timing, etc. matter even more!

I'm really looking forward to this! I remember talking to Riley in the old snake pit after his dad was let go, he was shooting hoops by himself and he was so beatdown and dejected. I don't remember what all his injuries were but he had some significant ones, played through them, moved positions, took heat for replacing Vizza who had a great freshman year before he came in, and of course the failure to win on the field; he carried a lot of that with him, a lot of pride and heart with that one! I don't remember what we talked about but I remember feeling bad for him at the time and was disappointed to hear he was transferring but he looked like a sad, worn out, lost puppy dog that day.... Glad to see them both finding success (and hopefully some happiness) after North Texas!

A piece of advice I received once but haven't forgotten, came from a college coach who said "when things aren't going well, you better give them something to talk about, if not, they're going to talk about you." We were talking in the context of an administrator who had gone silent for a while and it was amazing how much was starting to come out about their perceived lack of leadership, ability, etc. A great example would be UT firing Herman at Noon and announcing Sark at 4pm (I'm not sure of the times but you get the gist). People were talking about Herman for a few hours and then it was all about Sark and the rumored staff he's putting together, how great he is at time-management right now and getting the job done etc... Maybe a short interview with SL about letting Bowen go, the defense last year, and the direction he's looking to go with the defense, or what he's looking for in a new DC and a timeline for making a decision (the old "we're not going to rush it, we're going to take our time, and thoroughly evaluate potential candidates to make sure we get it right" line) would have gone a long way - sell the vision. The longer it drags on, the less confidence there seems to be in the hire and I hope that doesn't follow them into the season.

Taking a look at it, going from this link: https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30675288/michigan-coach-jim-harbaugh-reach-contract-extension Harbaugh's new contract will pay him a base salary of $4 million in 2021, which will increase to $4.426 million in 2025. He can earn a maximum bonus of $3.475 million in each year of the contract, including: $1 million bonuses for winning the Big Ten championship and CFP national championship $500,000 bonuses for winning the Big Ten East Division and reaching the College Football Playoff. I laid it out on spreadsheet (it's easier for me to interpret that way lol) and I think it does two things: 1) UM is saying, we're going to give you a few more years to figure it out but we're not gonna pay you unless you win Championships or contend for them 2) Harbaugh's agent did him a solid by staying firm with the buyouts, really forcing UM's hands to keep him for the next three years (this is my opinion only: I wouldn't spend the money to fire him until 2024 with the $6mil buyout) To me the AD here is kind of hedging his bets, perhaps having "measured faith" is a better way to put it. Either way, the headlines will read "Harbaugh Takes a Pay Cut" which is good publicity all-round and buys himself a few years at his dream job to turn it around while the AD also saves some face by not "rewarding mediocrity" - I say that as I doubt there's many coaches that would get a contract like this after his most recent production, expectations, etc but won't go off track in that way. I'd say he's getting the "Alumni Exception" with this contract along with the question that should always be asked before firing coaches at this level: "If not him, then who?" - I think UM looked around and didn't see anyone on the market that they liked which makes this a good deal in their eyes at the time. If nothing else, they have a plan in place through 2025!

Not sure if you were serious about this but Karl Scott, current CB Coach at 'Bama stands out if that's the case: https://rolltide.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/karl-scott/1077 Before 'Bama: Scott spent the previous two seasons as the secondary coach at Texas Tech before being named the defensive coordinator at Louisiana-Lafayette in late December of 2017. His secondary at Texas Tech in 2017 posted an impressive turnaround, helping produce 29 turnovers, including 14 interceptions. Before Tech: Scott worked at Southeastern Louisiana for three years, serving as the defensive coordinator and secondary coach in 2014 and linebackers coach in 2012-13. During his tenure with the Lions, he helped lead the program to back-to-back Southland Conference championships (2013-14) and two NCAA Football Championship Subdivision playoff appearances. His 2014 defense at Southeastern led the Southland Conference in total defense while ranking seventh in the FCS. The Lions also led the nation in pass efficiency defense (94.3) and ranked fifth in red zone defense, eighth in scoring defense (17.7 ppg) and 11th in turnovers gained (28). A native of Houston, Texas, Scott played at McMurry University. EDIT: Although... "Karl Scott drawing a $525,000 deal in 2019-2020, up approximately $175,000 from last year’s salary ($350,000)." Link: https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/sports/2019/03/20/alabama-assistants-earn-new-deals-totaling-7-5-million-2019/3224595002/

Thanks Y'all, and @untbowler yeah, one of his close friends and the guy who started at QB before him plays baseball (and starts) as a freshman at Sam Houston, I guess that'll be my FCS team to follow from now on!

Thanks for your responses and feedback. Little update: have heard that Sam Houston State has a very high interest in him but definitely an under the radar guy to watch - would like to see him in Denton and hope we didn’t overlook him (slightly worried that he ends up at UTSA which is close to home for him and burns us down the road).

How would you rate this recruit (asking for a friend).... Gage Lowry out of La Vernia, TX (South Texas) - 2021 QB - 1st team all district 15-4A - District 14-4A D1 MVP - 6'6” 215lbs..... https://www.hudl.com/video/3/11366012/5f95ef260dcac8103cd5aa17 UNT Potential? D1, 2, or 3? Other? TIA

I do believe contract positions are exempt from hiring freezes or exemptions as has been previously mentioned, to me it makes sense as there are a number of factors that don't calculate into the final decision such as retirement pay - I've often thought we could attract very serious and experienced coaches across the board with the attractive "TRS" retirements system which some coaches can avail themselves of while others are contracted employees!

These three are huge in my opinion, calling plays, scheming against FBS talent and understanding the demands and expectations of a HC, if success follows those three then the other two are proverbial "cherry's on top", if they have a plan in place that fits with the vision (recruits, talent, and scheme) then it sounds like a win-win. A "win-win" should really be appreciated by the fan base/alumni at North Texas, we're not a P5 school but we are a G5 with high expectations (appropriately so) so there will always be a factor here or there that may limit us as far as talent that you can attract; anything or situation that may mitigate that and attract the talent, be it on the field or on the staff, is indeed a win-win!

I agree with @El Paso Eagle and the quote's from Brian Kelly and the timing of the decision allows for coaches around the country that may be a positional coach, for example, to look at the personnel, look at last years film, and put together a presentation as to why they would be a great fit for the program and compete for the job. When you're third from the bottom of FBS Football in Defense, there's nowhere to go but up and you've got a HC, AD, to convince and ultimately a room of assistants to convince and buy in, all are relying on the next hire to get it right! All included want the best for the program, there's a lot on line, but opening the job up this way and at this time could allow for a "wild card" to come in and "wow" you with perspectives you haven't seen before - all things considered, it's a good place for the program to be in. Let's see how it plays out, there may be some folks that were mentioned previously that will reach out, and if you're on the inside, you're waiting to see who will reach out, but the onus is now on them, and if there's someone they had in mind that attacks the opening with a powerful presentation and thoughts, then it's a win-win, it's a person you thought could get it done, paired with a plan to get it done!

@UNTLifer DM sent.

Appreciate it @xyresic (and for sure no offense taken) and @UNTLifer!! More importantly though: Does no one "CAWWWW" anymore? That was a thing when I was in school!!! I was on campus for a day this summer but before that it's been a solid four or five years or so but I remember throwing up the Talon and "CAWWWING" when I was there haha! Well, if you see a random person throwing up the talon and yelling "CAAWWWW" at you in an airport or elsewhere because you're wearing UNT gear, it's a safe bet that it's probably me lol! 😆😆

I’m split on if this thread is trolling I'm not trolling, I'm an alumni and have followed this message board since my days at UNT. I never thought about joining, posting, or commenting as I coach college athletics (Not at UNT, not football and not D1) and would one day like to coach at UNT (dream job!), so it's always been a catch-22 if you will. I'm passionate about UNT and have literally "CAWWWED" and thrown up the talon across airports and casinos in Vegas when I see someone wearing UNT gear. The idea for the Sumlin deal came about a few weeks ago when I was looking up information on some Dallas Cowboys contracts (also a fan) and read an article about Jerry and the 'Boys front loading contracts during the uncapped 2010 season. Then Sumliin was fired, I follow him as through a friend I hung out with him once a few years ago during the offseason, nothing big, haven't seen or talked to him since, but as a young coach he definitely made a positive impression on me and you tend to follow the careers of folks you've met in your respective fields. Then, reading the threads on here where some were questioning the $1.8mil base salary for SL, the Cowboys front loading, Sumlin's availability and contract details ($7.29mil guaranteed/mitigated), all kind of came together as one thought and I sat on it for a while and wanted to get some feedback on it, as it just kind of kept creeping up in my mind. The first person I shared the idea with privately thought it was pretty insane, doubted the validity of it so I can get where you're coming from with the insane part. From my perspective the only way I see Sumlin getting another opportunity at a Power 5 school (assuming he wants another go at it), would be to have a successful run at a Group of 5 school. He could go the 'Bama Analyst route but I still think that leads to a G5 job before a P5 job for him. Coaching at UNT gives him the G5 job without going to 'Bama or somewhere else as a Coordinator (again, assuming he wants that) and saves him a few years (at 56 years old, time's ticking). Also, I think his recruiting background is a great fit at UNT, considering where he's been in the past, I think he'd bring some recruits with him (Power 5 recruits) and I think by virtue of his CUSA and SEC credentials, he retains a lot of current student-athletes. Then capitalizing on the buzz this would generate, turns the recruiting up another notch, we know the facilities and location are great at UNT, attracting quality assistants and support staff would follow. I'm of the belief that the next five years looks more promising with Sumlin than it does with SL (again, I hope I'm wrong, I hope that if it's SL or someone else, that the next five years and beyond exceed everyone's expectations!). Anyway, insane perhaps, I can accept that 😄 but definitely not trolling lol.

I really like SL, I've loved watching our team compete under him and win under him. However, five years ago on December 5, 2015, the day he was announced as the HC, the expectation was not to go 4-8 and 4-8 in years four and five. In year one, 5-8 is understandable, years two and three of 9-5 and 9-4 respectively was outstanding and I think most would agree either met or exceeded expectations. For me, had Sumlin not become available WITH the financial caveats I started this thread with, I wouldn't have thought about making a move. I have always supported all of our programs regardless, but I don't believe SL will meet or exceed expectations in year six, next year, I hope I'm wrong, I really do. It's because of that I think making this move with Sumlin now, gives the program the most qualified hire in program history and financially, with the money that would be available to be reinvested in the AC pool a more qualified/experienced DC for example. I'd rather make this move now than after next season if things don't go well and we have to compete for a new HC in the open market. For me, Sumlin check's all the boxes, many that haven't been checked before at the HC position for football at UNT and I believe his hire would be the one that takes the program to the next level, ranked in the Top 25 going into a bowl game!

I'm a UNT Grad (Twice!) - this stuff takes 10 minutes!

I put together a this chart to compare the experience of HC hires at UNT prior to their hire and how their tenure went at UNT as far as record, bowl wins etc. and included Kevin Sumlin to see how he compares to past hires. I only went as far back as Hayden Fry with it as I would consider his tenure and what he did as far as moving the program forward as an independent (and more) as most impactful to represent the "modern era" if you will. You can draw your own conclusions but I'd be open to suggestions on what categories to add to the spreadsheet for comparison. I've attached as a .png and .pdf - one may be easier to read depending on your browser but may be difficult on mobile due to the layout of the spreadsheet. UNT HC Exp Prior.pdf

I can answer the second part, all staff/coaches at an NCAA institution have access to the transfer portal which lists the players name, school they are transferring from, classification (Freshman, Sophomore, Junior etc.), whether or not they received athletic financial aid, what level (DI, DII, DIII) they would consider, and their preferred method of contact and contact information (typically personal email and cellphone number). From there, coaches at other schools can reach out and talk to the potential transfer.

In thinking about this a bit more today and reading some of the feedback, I've attached a Five Year Prospectus to evaluate the potential financials of the deal. In doing so, it raises an interesting prospect of having more money which could be added to the assistant coaches pool, to the tune of $457,000 per year (averaged out over five years). This could go along way to bringing in a quality defensive coordinator and/or offensive coordinator or position coach. For example, Mark Snyder who was Sumlin's D-Coordinator in 2012 at Texas A&M that beat #1 ranked Alabama in November (in Tuscaloosa) and beat OU in the Cotton Bowl, is currently the D-Line/ST Coord at Florida State University making $450,000 (Info link here). Our current D-Coord is making $350,000 per other posts on this board, with an additional $450,000 per year to spread around, you could really envision a scenario where orchestrating this deal with Sumlin can set up a two (or three) for the price of one scenario where we are able to add an experienced coordinator in addition to Sumlin. The big question for me is do you believe SL will have a substantially better season next year? If you do, then all good, stick with SL. If not, then you're in a position next year where you're looking for a new HC and will be competing with other programs for quality HC replacements. Right now, with the financials being what they are (Sumlin's buyout language at Arizona) and the fact that we would more than likely be his only suitor for a G5 HC position, and the best considering his recruiting ties and experience in Texas/Oklahoma and propensity to recruit Louisiana, then this is the deal and move to make. This deal won't be around three months from now and frankly for UNT may not ever come around again. All things considered, this a coach a few years removed from his sixth consecutive winning season as a head coach in the SEC, with some big wins against ranked opponents and in big time bowl games, who has coached a Heisman Trophy winner, and in his fourth year at UH with his recruits, went 12-1. To me, the closest comparison to this would be the Lane Kiffin hire at FAU and all things equal, Sumlin is a more experienced and qualified hire at the same point and we know what Kiffin did at FAU. Making this move would be similar to what happened to Sumlin at Texas A&M, when Jimbo became available, they felt it would be an upgrade from an already good coach and they made the move. This is what we would be doing here, it's not personal against SL, it's business. Thanks for the continued feedback, I'll continue to update the original post as necessary with your suggestions but I think between that and the attached chart, it illustrates what could go down as a pretty savvy move on and off the field to take us to another level over the next five years.

UPDATE: - Added SL's Buyout (TheColonyEagle Suggestion) - Increased Sumlin's base salary in Years One and Two (Mean Green Matt Suggestion) *Updates in Green Just wanted to get some thoughts on the following deal, I think it would be worth exploring, take Sumlin's Arizona years out of the mix, six winning seasons at Texas A&M, success as a HC at Houston, success as OC at Oklahoma and I think it's worth looking at going after Kevin Sumlin right now to replace SL. There's a unique reason that also should be considered with the timing and language in Sumlin's buyout at Arizona and I've laid that out below. Hire Kevin Sumlin: Structuring the Deal (Steal) of the Century Preface: SL Buyout is 30% of his base salary for each year remaining on his contract through 2023, here's how a deal with Kevin Sumlin could look, considering his current buyout situation in Arizona: 1) Arizona is on the hook for $7.29mil for the next two years with any money made by Sumlin subtracted from the amount owed to him from Arizona (Info in linked here) It's safe to assume Kevin Sumlin knows there's no job waiting for him to make anywhere close to $7.29mil over the next two years - but UNT could be the perfect place at the perfect time. 2) Backload a 5 year contract for Kevin Sumlin Year One: $1 (Arizona Still Paying Sumiln minus the $1 earned at UNT) $250,000 Year Two: $1 (Arizona Still Paying Sumiln minus the $1 earned at UNT) $250,000 Year Three: $1.5mil Year Four: $1.5mil Year Five: $2mil 3) What Sumlin's take home pay looks like Years One and Two: $500,000 from UNT and $7.29mil From Arizona (Minus $2) $6.79mil From Arizona Year Three: $1.5mil Year Four: $1.5mil Year Five: $2mil Total Over Five Years: $12.29mil Yearly Average: $2.26mil 4) Out of Pocket Cost to UNT To Sumlin Years One and Two: $2 (Yes, $2 even, not a typo) $500,000 Year Three: $1.5mil Year Four: $1.5mil Year Five: $2mil Five Years: $5mil $5.5mil Yearly Average: $1mil $1.2mil SL Buyout Current contract calls for 30% of base salary for remaining years (3 years at $1.35mil base) (Info link here) Year One (And Total of SL Buyout): $1.215mil SUMLIN + SL OVER FIVE YEARS: $6.715mil YEARLY AVERAGE OVER FIVE YEARS: $1.343mil By back loading his contract, you get a proven winner in the SEC (Beat a #1 Ranked 'Bama team while he was at A&M, and coached a Heisman winner, never had a losing season as a HC in the SEC). You could list a lot of reasons that qualify him from his time at A&M, Houston, and OU, if you're willing to look past his Arizona tenure. I just think now would be a perfect time to strike with all of these considerations as well as the financial implications for UNT (Saving money with huge hire), at the end of the day, this would be the best job Sumlin could get and I think he'd be a perfect fit - to say nothing of the fact that this works out for him making an average of $2.26mil/year for five years to be the HC at UNT! Thoughts?