BTG_Fan1

This team has added a lot to both sides in a short time. They added Wheeler, Jenks, English, HamBone on defense.On Offense they have added Siggers, Rico, Wilson, Guyton, White, amoung others. We can say that we think that we know about competition, but these coaches know traits to look for that can develop that we overlook as well. No one is going to argue about that Talent wins, but this staff showed last year that it could challenge teams with a roster of kids that went 1-11. They did not have much talent at all last year. Mac didn't increase the level of recruiting because he was not looking for another job. He was okay with staying here till he retired or got fired. He didn't make an effort to change or improve, while SL and his staff have improved the recruiting in terms of connections with HS coaches. The next thing is to improve the things needed for SL and this staff to bring in top level talent. While keeping up and improving on the level of coaching that was used this year moving the team from 1-11 to 5-8. You may not want to wait, and there is no reason that you should have too. The staff showed, they can take a 1-11 team to a bowl game the next year. The waiting game is more on the facilities and changing the mindsets of coaches, families and high school kids, but that can only be done by winning and adding things necessary to help these kids improve themselves for them to get drafted.

and IPF is an indoor pratice facility. The field of the alamodome is indoors, check. they pratice on it on, check. Proven. All the factors that you listed were invalid and thus debunked. Because HS recruits don't see much of a difference in terms of education. They see a major difference in terms of on/off the field production in getting them to their dream of the NFL. How the women rank on campus is up to the players, but just saying a liberal arts school like UNT (that maybe a strike). A nicer campus, no idea how that can be proven but if you are going by looks but UNT has alot of construction going on and old building. If you go by people saying hi, hello, how are you, yea no one says that to strangers while out walking around on campus, so this is a invalid question. UNT is not a nice location, because for everything that Denton has, SA has something better. We have the Square they have the riverwalk, they have the resort style hotels and we have a Hilton Garden Inn. We have Golden Triangle Mall, they have 5 malls within SA. Boom debunked again.. Because ben is like GMG's Hillary Clinton... the more Ben talks, the more people realize how dumb these points are that ben makes. Ben has no plan to improve or what needs to be done, Ben just thinks it will magically improve once Wilson is hired.

It wasn't a hypothetical question. It was Morris as the elder QB, and a freshman that was coming in with the previous starter having graduated. Morris spent what 1 or 2 years in the same offense while Hurts was just walking onto campus. Morris left because he wanted to be handed the job and not compete for it. Morris was a bust no matter what for Bama, because he was a back up for all those years and never amounted to anything outside of a 2nd or 3rd string QB and backed up 3 other QBs, 1 which was transfer to Bama because of the lack of talent at the QB position, and another QB that I believe turned into an RB in the NFL in Sims. Yes we would all like to add kids with a list of schools wanting them, but the offer list does not matter if these kids fit the scheme! The scheme and how plays are designed win games, not offer sheets! We will not recruit better if we don't improve the things kids are looking at. You think Wilson can sale kids on coming to UNT that has a SUBPAR highschool weight room and no IPF which most local highschools have now, sale kids on coming to UNT when they can't get 1 player drafted, and sale kids on coming to a school that has more losing decades than winning ones LOL

Figures you would pass over the IPF comment LOL. SL should make more because of resume that he has. Wilson was an RB Coach, and SL was an OC. The Ass. Pool maybe higher, but again who would turn down more money? Have i denied that UTSA made a better hire, so far? No the point is, SL could be a better hire if he is given the resources and the history that UTSA has had. IF SL didn't have Decades of losing to recruit against, a lost of facilities and resources, and previous coaches lack of NFL production then he would be losing to Wilson. Dear lord, most HS kids do not view UNT as a better Academic school than UT, TCU, SMU, etc. UNT IS VIEWED AS THE BACK UP IN EVERYTHING OUTSIDE OF MUSIC! We can say we have a nicer campus, but that can't actually be rated, so that is invalid. Nicer looking women, that is up the individual person to rank. Nice Location, that is invalid because of all the construction and nothing really do in the city of Denton compared to SA. Literally just debunked all the reasons why UNT is "Nicer."

Does it have a roof and can they practice in it? If it does then its an IPF, sorry to break it to you. Its true UTSA has made the better hire because they are willing to invest in the AD Programs! We have no invested at all! UTSA also doesnt not have the history of losing like UNT, and they have more draft success than us! Dear lord, UTSA is an easy sale compared to UNT, just because of the records, and NFL Production alone! Yes, we should win them, but UNT has to give the coaches the tools to compete and take away weaknesses that our competition uses to our disadvantage. SL needs to keep winning on the field, and produce kids that go in the draft. Right now he has Jenkins and McClain who are the 2 most likely to get drafted. SL/Reff and everyone else needs to find ways to get to excel and for college scouts to see them. If McClain can go to IU and have the same game he did vs Army when we played at Army he will get picked, and if Jenks has the same game that he had vs Army as well he should get picked too. But WB job is improve and facilities, so that SL and the staff can tell recruits that he will have the best tools at UNT for you to make it to the NFL, and that they can coach them up. SL and them already coached up a 1-11 team to 5-8 and nearly a bowl win. Just have to give him the tools now and hope it wasn't a fluke season.

Morris would have been in competetion with Hurts for this past season, the one that he was at UNT. Oh my bad he started 1 game at Bama... oh man! Yes Morris had better stats, and as I said earlier I was a huge Morris Fan and wanted him to play out the year as well because he had traits, but from the outside looking in he was not a leader. The only reason he wore the C and was out there for the coin flip was because, how could we not have a RS SR QB from Bama not be the leader of this offense? He was a "ME" player, dear lord look at the dudes tweets. He was so happy to get out of Denton. And what this has to do with bad recruiting is that kids with multiple offers still amount to nothing! Morris was a flop at Bama, Morris was a flop at UNT! Who cares if he had how every many other G5 and P5 offers. The dude was a FLOP! In the eyes of most people on this board, it would be a homerun because of his offer list, but the dude was a FLOP!

No it would not keep me quiet. I've been talking about upgrading the facilities for months! I brought up back in the fall about them looking/discussing about a new superpit. UNT Athletic facilities are old and out of date. Hell, our track team can't even have a home tournament. Our best program, girls soccer, just a couple of years ago couldn't even water the grass that they practiced on. Why the hell would any recruit want to go to a place like that? Wilson would have a hard time selling, a small weightroom, no IPF, no winning history, and no NFL-Success at the time that he would have gotten here. We have no idea about the state of the facilities at UTSA. But they have 1 thing that we don't have and its a IPF. We have no IPF. We have no idea the status of their weightroom either, or their position group rooms, but if anything they are on the same status as us which still has us ranking behind them because of no IPF. (Their IPF is the AlamoDome!) I'm not being an apologist. I'm being a realist. The state of UNT athletics is piss poor. They have been working on this IPF since last fall, and its still not announced. They can show flashy photos of what it may look like to recruits, but that isn't helping SL and the other coaches when they say we have something in the works for nearly 9 months now. I'm validating the porous recruiting because UNT literally has so many areas that just have to be upgraded to get on par with other schools that are below where we would like/should be. We can think that UNT is in the dumps because of recruiting, but recruiting will only improve if the other things step up. SL has to win on the field to change the mindsets of the people like Parents and HS Coaches, the facilities is how you get recruits. Again, Wilson could not sale recruits on no NFL success, crappy facilities, being the bottom of the barrel in this market. Just like a great sales person couldn't sale you on joining a company that is has no success in terms of employment promotion, a company that is downsizing, and a company that makes you pay for your own equipment, parking, etc. If that sales person did sale you on that company, then the person that is at fault isn't the sales person, its you. Thank you, preach it!

Yes Morris had the Size, and the Arm Strength but the dude was not able to be complete more than something like 53% of his passes, and he had to many costly turnovers. We can keep saying what may or may not have happened with him but we will never know. We can say that he was a great guy in the QB Room, but from his twitter posts, he did not want to be in Denton, and on video we have from the sidelines it was always Quinn that would talk/work with Fine, not Morris and Fine. Morris was a "ME" player, and they very rarely, if ever work out at QB. You can say that he had the traits to be a good QB but he never was. That is why he never played 1 serious down at Bama! He left when they had a completely open competition and it was him and a True Freshman. He only played because Fine was injured. Your comparing what is fiction and what is real life...

So let me get this right. You don't like/regret the hiring of SL? Also, it was not RV that made SL the Million dollar man it was WB just as an FYI. Oh yes lets have a hissy fit over the recruiting, because UNT is such a great place.... I mean 0 NFL draft picks in what, 16 or 17 NFL Drafts? In that time we have produced a whooping like 10 NFL players (and that may be to many). A school that has facilities that are worse than local High Schools, i mean hell my High School is building and IPF now, and has 2 huge weight rooms! UNT has 1 weight room, and no IPF. Poor almuni attendance at games (even when tickets were free vs Southern Miss), and being low on the marketing side of DFW as well. When UNT improves on any of those, then we can compete with the likes of TXST, UTSA. Once we improve on all of those, then we can talk about competing with LAT and bigger schools in the state.

How can you say that he would have shattered all the records and everything? I was a huge fan of Morris but he was far from great. The point is kids that have multiple offers still fail at the G5 level. You may be pissed off that Martin doesn't have more offers, but he is the commit of the class. He is ranked highly by DC Texas Football over the likes of the kids going to Tech a P5 and LAT, a school that people on here compare us too when we have far more in common with the likes of SMU/TXST/UTSA than LAT.

You have no idea if they can complete! SL and GH are not coaching like Mac was, who was on his last leg. SL and this entire staff will be coaching for another 10-20 years. UNT has nothing positive going on for it. We have facilities that rank below local High Schools. We have had how many seasons? We have had 1 in like the last 10 years+. We do not produce NFL Talent, when the local G5 have produced it. LAT had a 1st round pick last year, UTSA has had kids drafted, Rice as well, UTEP as well. We are at the bottom of the entire DFW Market when it comes to things to do. People would rather go to a Mavs, Cowboys, Rangers, or Stars game, or go to a TCU/SMU game, or go to downtown FTW or Dallas, or even go to a minor league game in frisco. UNT ranks at the very best maybe 3rd or 4th. UNT is hurt big time by not producing kids that play in the NFL. Orr was well on his way to getting a big contract, and was well on his way to putting himself and UNT on the map when it comes to talented/notable players in the NFL. Our most notable is Robertson, but he is not a guy who will be a Pro-Bowl/All-Pro Player like Orr was. UNT needs to hope that Jenkins and McClain have big seasons for them to be selected in the draft.

So people are already looking to replace SL after getting us to a bowl game, or we want to drop down a level because we are having a hissy fit because we can't beat out LAT or UTSA for recruits, when they have clearly produced better outcomes than us in terms of kids getting drafted, Facilities, the history of losing here at UNT, and the piss poor AD that we had been under in RV. Dear lord the UNT90 Virus has swept over this board. With how some people talk, we should have put the option to just dismantle the entire Athletic Department as well.

I do agree, but that is why the US should be supporting countries like Jordan and UAE more. And show to the people why those countries are improving!

Agreed, if SL can keep winning on the field, the recruiting will improve. UNT has alot of going against it in recruiting compared to other schools. The on-field is something you have the most control over. Morris had multiple D1 offers... how did that turn out? I'm asking for a friend

Maybe that is why the IPF has not been announced and why the soccer stadium was put off?

Are you wanting to get a job at a company that has years of losing profits? Do you want to go to a company that is 4th or 5th or 6th biggest in the region? Do you want to work for a company that has subpar equipment and facilities? Do you want to work that has not been puting out a quality product in years? You may not care about it but it is facts. Decades of losing, Lack of NFL Talent, Marketsize, and subpar HS Facilities basically are major strikes vs UNT compared to the likes of LAT. Everyone wants to compare UNT to LAT or UTSA, those schools do NOT have the Decades of losing compared to us, those schools have had NFL Draft Picks while we have NOT. Those schools have facilities that we do NOT have. We can pour money into to Ass. Coaches pool and more into gas money for recruiting, but it comes down to the extras that the school has to offer. When we can be like the rest of the big boys and have improved facilities that actually appeal to higher ranked kids, and have some success in terms of sending kids to the pros then we can start comparing ourselves to the likes of LAT, WKU, UTSA. Yes everyone here would love for us to get into the "mid-level" of CUSA. but we are competing with HS facilities. WE HAVE TO IDENTIFY AND ADDRESS THE LACK OF INVESTMENT HERE AT UNT. Give a coach gas money to drive from UNT to Denton Ryan isn't going to make a kid commit. For every kid that commits like T.Davis because they want to be close to home, is 5, 10, 15, etc kids that want to go to the best program to get them to their dreams of the NFL! Gas money isn't going to convince that kid to pass up LAT for UNT. No LAT has history and the facilities to improve that kid, and that kid will come to us and think my HS has better facilities than here. Again a IPF, a weightroom, a film room, a nutrition center to build these kids into the best shape possible and help them on the field as well is how you win them over, because those things are not going to leave for a P5.

The guys on Dave Campbells talked about the class, Tepper as well. Also, isn't the term "underrated" viewed as you should be ranked or graded higher or someone who has been passed over?

The thing to also notice along with the size, is the accuracy as well of the QBs. That is why at times this year when our offense was moving, it was because the QB was able to get multiple completions in a row and get defenses on their toes. Fine and Morris were in the 50s in terms of completion %, I believe last year. Arm Strength can be gained but accuracy is something that takes a lot longer to work on and polish. Bulk up Kason and Pearson and let them battle it out. If Kason can be a Dec Grad, it will be interesting to see QB Battle in a year or 2.

Never said that you said that they couldn't play. The point is that its nice to beat out other schools, but just having an offer list doesn't mean you will be a great player or a bad player. Everyone on this board would take a kid like Siggers for example that had a P5 offer from Tech 10/10, and 10/10 times we could take a kid like Darden as well who had P5 and multiple other G5s. Yes it not as sexy when we have a kid commit who doesn't have any other offers. The point that I'm trying to make is that SL and his staff are professionals at this, and we are all a bunch of average joes who have no idea in most of how the evaluation and recruiting process happens. How many people had them winning 5 games last year? How many of us had them playing in a Bowl game? We can complain about the recruiting but again SL and his staff is going to keep doing their thing. UNT has to compete against DECADES of losing records! UNT has to compete against schools that put out NFL Draft picks year after year, UNT has to compete with programs that are some of the top entertainment choices in those cities (UNT is behind 2 other schools, 3 ML Teams, and multiple minor league teams). UNT has to compete against the mindset of HS coaches/Parents as well that still most likely view UNT has a negative. UNT has to compete with a lack of facilities such as an IPF, Weightroom, etc compared to High Schools. Hell, there are even students at UNT that DO NOT want to be at UNT. We may not like the rankings of these classes or the recruits, and we can be critical of the coaches, but they are competing vs A LOT of outside factors. When everyone on here can come up with answers on how to top LATech when they recently had a 1st round pick, along with the stats of a top 10/20 offense. Because of our losing history, UTSA looks better than UNT because we have had what, 1 winning season in like 10-15 years? We can ask and complain about why kids would rather go to TXST over UNT but yet they are one of the main things to do in SM. We can then say that we should be like WKU, but yet they have been investing in their program while, RV was just trying to rub 2 coins together to pay the waterbill for us to water the soccer practice fields.... SL has shown that he can coach, or atleast get these kids to play above their abilities at times with kids that didn't fit his scheme. True in SL and the process, because a lot of different people from all over the country have talked about the turn around that SL did. Coaches have talked about a change as well when Vito has talked to them at practice. Recruiting experts as well have talked glowingly about the last class, and some of these recruits as well. Just because can't hold only a Top 50 recruit in Gage or get a kid to flip from XYZ school to UNT isn't because these guys suck at recruiting, its most likely the outside factories and non-investment into the program.

I think Martin is similar to Brin, with Martin having the advantage over Brin in my book.

That is true, and starts with the US calling what is, and us forcing the hand of our Allies to call it what it is and for them to get in line with modern day cultures. Once its identified, then we have Allies that are willing to work, then we have to hold them to that standard.

Totally agreed Will be interesting to see him and Pearson challenge for the job

This makes no sense. Kids have offers expire all the time. Heck we have happen at UNT, that we recruit the kid for a period then we move on to other targets. If the kid had a P5 offer at any time, that means that the school thought that kid could play at the P5 level. We can say that its in Whites case its not sexy that we flipped him from Grambling to UNT, but he had other offers as well. They may not be sexy but they are other G5 offers that he had at one time that the schools likely moved on from him because of them wanting to purpose other kids just like we do. All of these kids were highly ranked in by 24/7 as well.

Amen! An IPF is not going to leave for a P5. Improving the Weightroom will not leave for a P5, etc. Facilities have to be invested in big time and upgraded ASAP! We have to give these coaches the tools to be able to bring in kids. If kids see the facilities decrease from HS to College, can you really say that they (the school) are really that interested in that program? It also leads to a lack of success as well, because these kids are not getting the same benefits as other schools. Yes we can compare ourselves to the likes of UTSA, but UTSA has been around how long compared to UNT? They again do not have the losing image that we do, nor do they have the image of not being able to put kids in the NFL Draft. Also, they have an IPF (the alamodome) that we do not, even if its crappy. But with us thinking it is crappy, we have not seen the underbelly of the stadium that the players see.

Just saying Western Michigan has had multiple guys go to the pros via the draft and guys that have performed, while UNT has had no success in the draft. Nor have we had anyone outside of Orr's (1 break out year) and maybe Robertson that have Name recognition like they have. Greg Jennings was a 2nd rounder, Tony Scheffler was a 2nd rounder, Jason Babin was a 1st rounder, just to name recent notable Also, just a heads up. Western Michigan had the #5 pick in this years draft, Corey Davis, and the guy was a 2*(.7444) ranking with only 1 offer which was Western Michigan. http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Corey-Davis-30611/RecruitInterests Also, compare the Facilities to ours.. http://www.wmubroncos.com/facilities/ ------------------------------------------------------------------ We can keep saying that Fleck and SL match up, but it is not even close. Yes the may in terms of resume, but the other outside factors are not even close. WM has notable Alumni, that have signed big contracts in the NFL that have likely given back ( haven't had time to research this). Also have the history that they have will put them #3 in there state of 5 notable G5/P5 schools behind Michigan, and Michigan State. With Central and Eastern Michigan coming in behind them. They also have multiple facilities that UNT has plans to build as well. ----------------------------------------- But back tot he topic of the QB Martin. He is another solid addition to the QB room. A big kid, that comes from a solid HS Program. Martin is a HS Coaches son, so he is likely someone that has good practice habits and ability to lead as well. Multiple experts as well have ranked him high, and have talked glowingly about him as well. We have no idea why he has been passed over in terms of offers. He ranks 8th on Dave Campbells top 25 QBs, with him ranking directly Tune who is going to Kansas, and head of LATechs QB recruit, and Techs QB as well. The likely reason for the lack of offers, is because this past season (his JR Year) was his only year of starting. This is also his first round of camps that he is the known as the starter and colleges have almost entirely locked up their QBs for the classes. HS QBs are some of the first targets and "commits" to teams so that they can help appeal to other recruits. The film of Martin is solid, and he is looks alot like Sam Bradford at QB just in terms of build and accuracy. It will be interesting if he is able to be a Dec Grad. Wouldn't hurt him to put on some weight but it will be interesting to see him and Pearson compete for the job.