GMG_Dallas

Don't know if y'all have heard of this guy. Pretty good basketball player from Rowlett. Went the JUCO route and now starts on the number 1 team is his conference. Wears number 11. Really excited to see what Joel Murray can do... that's right, Joel Murray, starting guard for Long Beach State of the Big West conference. . Now, I don't know if JJ Murray and Joel Murray are just each other's biggest fans and the rest is a coincidence or if they're family but they re-tweet dang near everything about the other. So, without knowing if they're related or if they just have a bunch in common including last name, HS, jersey number, and admire one another... I hereby declare Long Beach State University as my number 2 team this March.

Took my kids to their first UNT event last Thursday against Southern Miss and today my 5 year old tells me twice out of nowhere: "I live to say Go Mean Green!" I've also got 2 of my 3 step-kids wanting to go to UNT. Commencing phase 2.

No different than other Texas schools... if you think Houston had been dominating C-USA when they accepted their Big East/AAC invite, you might need to look at their football/basketball records by year. Per the UH forum, they accepted their invite October/November 2011. From 2000 to 2010, Houston made the NCAA tourney once and lost in the first round. In that same span, Houston football had two 10-win seasons but also an 0-11 season. Don't believe they ever won their conference. I'd say the Houston market has carried them but they've certainly taken advantage in the past 5-6 years.

Mark Few is a situation I've been looking at for hope that it can be done here. I'm not going to pretend to know Gonzaga's history but looking at historical records, it looks like he was part of building that program into what it is today. When he took over as HC they had only just started to find success and it's been persistent with him at the helm since '99. Prior to that, he was an assistant with the Zags for almost 10 years so his footprints are all over that place. I don't know if Grant can do what he's done but here's why I have hope. Salary. Few could have left a long time ago for more money. A quick Google search shows he makes about $1.8 million per year. Houston pays their coach $3 million per year. There's no doubt a big blue-blood like Michigan could have offered even more and maybe has but Few has stayed put. Few is from Oregon, went to Oregon, but has made Spokane home. He's chosen legacy over money (not that he's not earning a pretty penny already). As of right now, Few's commitment to Gonzaga has pave the way for him being regarded as one of the most dominant college basketball coaches of all time and he did it at a mid-major. I'm hoping Grant will do the same.

Hey, hey, hey... I was arguing about baseball and Houston WHILE watching MTSU lose. It's called multitasking.

Is there an expiration date on this?

Would you prefer bobsled? I may be able to get you both but no promises.

Thanks for your input. It's always easy spending other people's money. Different story when we have to write the check ourselves. Question: do any of y'all know the likelihood of getting a grant from the Moody Foundation? They donated around $130 million for UT's new arena. They also donated $100 million to Rice, $100 million to SMU, $5 million to ACU, they've donated to UH, Baylor, and others across Texas. Moody was a wealthy UT alum but the foundation had donated over $1 billion to schools and other entities across Texas, regardless of their ties to UT. Hopefully Wren and UNT has explored this option to help fund some of these projects. https://moodyf.org/application-process/

Give me 30 years and I'll get you hockey, lacrosse, a new basketball arena, and curling.

I think you're right on the competitive in both aspect. The reason why I view football as a bit of a waste to focus on right now is because when it comes to winning national titles, we can't do that in football. In basketball we can. Especially getting into a multi-bid conference like the AAC. I'm just saying basketball > football in terms of priority. That's just me though.

This would be the absolute wrong thing to do. G5s have no chance in college football with the way things are set. They threw Cincy a bone and let them in the playoffs and will use their loss as a reason to not allow a G5 in again for the foreseeable future. Basketball has the most even playing field out of the major college sports. Focus on that. Basketball needs to take priority instead of dumping money in a sport (football) we have no chance of playing a playoff in. Houston has had two 10+ win football seasons in the past 10 seasons. I would argue it's their six straight 20+ win seasons and final four appearance that has propelled them, not football. Frankly, I would argue the Big 12 is solidifying themselves as a basketball conference with Baylor's recent success, Texas Tech emerging as a basketball power recently, West Virginia's been a regular force, Kansas as a blue-blood, etc... they're losing their biggest football programs (OU, UT) and are adding three strong basketball programs in Cincy, UH, and BYU (two 30-win seasons and 16 20-win seasons in the past 20-ish years).

I'm sure if you rise up a blank check in front of Wren you'll be heard. In the meantime, I, also as a graduate and stakeholder of the great University of North Texas, would rather we not miss out on this basketball momentum for the sake of starting another program from scratch. I hope they add baseball eventually but not as much as I want a top 25 basketball program. We're closer to being top 25 in men's basketball than any other sport. The time is now to capitalize.

Both schools have arenas big enough to hold their entire student population.

I feel like we'd be better off not spreading our money too thin until we can be more consistently successful in football and/or the basketballs. If we can dump a bit more money in basketball and keep on this trajectory, baseball may find itself a bit more easily funded in 5 years if the basketball program can bring us more revenue. I'm not saying it won't still be at a deficit but maybe it'll be less of a deficit. I don't like the idea of having every program possible just 'cause without being successful in what we already have first.

Think of the fun we could have in 10 years arguing about whether to build a new and smaller stadium because we can't fill the one we have and it would look better on TV if we had a smaller one that was full OR to start up the new lacrosse or hockey program because having a top lacrosse/hockey program would FOR SURE put us on the map.

Winning the NIT wouldn't do much locally, much less nationally. A sweet 16 appearance would put UNT on the map much like it did VCU for several years and more recently Loyola Chicago. It might be the deepest run a dfw based college team has made in years.

Well that was fast.

Anybody going to make a "Most Incredibly Excellent Case Scenario"? No?

I'm not saying they will be and I'm not suggesting a UT size facility. I'm just asking we have something a little better than Rice which has a capacity just below 6k. AD is proposing 6k to 7k. For y'all to understand how small 6k looks, that's about Rice. No matter how full it is, it won't look good. Deal.

No, my frustration is that you can do both. 8500 is not an absurd size considering our school size. The thing is, you have to get it right. Can't just throw around 60 million every time. 6k is too small. It's not about what looks good on tv today, it's about what we'll likely need.

Good Lord... I addressed this not being like an open air football stadium. You can build onto those. If in 20 years, UNT is a big time football program, you can add wings or build on top of what you have to add seats. You can't do that with a closed arena like you'd have for basketball. The AD is planning 6k to 7k seats. That's terrible. You can have a more intimate experience with sellout crowds without building such a small arena. I've suggested in multiple comments a good size would be 8,500. Big enough to sell out occasionally and grow into for regular sellouts if we find sustained success. This cap of 6k to 7k that's being proposed is absolutely horrible. You can't put that strict of a cap on occupancy levels.

No it won't. This will be Big 12 athletics with a huge Texas footprint. Those fans travel and many are already in Houston. They'll be able to fill that arena every game before UH fans can get their tickets based on the other schools' fans alone. Houston's arena will be the smallest in the Big 12, smaller than TCU's, until Baylor builds theirs (mind you Baylor's enrollment is less than half of what Houston's is and is located in a small town). You can't downsize every time success eludes you because the fans are no longer coming in droves. You still have to be able to accommodate the large crowds when you do have a successful few years or when you host a big program/tournament. If 8,500 is too big for us based on current attendance then so is 7,000. Should we just downsize to 4,500 to meet current attendance so we fill up every game?

I don't know how many times I need to repeat this but it's not about the past, it's about the future. If you build for the present based on the past you're setting yourself up for failure moving forward. Houston's attendance did not justify more than 7k at the time. Fast forward 6 years and they're going to the Big 12 with an undersized arena they just dumped $60 million into. They regularly sell out in the AAC and when they don't, they're still in the range of 6500 fans. Add in the big 12 fans and hype in a major city like Houston and they could easily sell out a 10k arena every game. Texas Tech bought up all the general admission seats when they played in Austin a week ago so the students were kicked out to make room for paying fans. That's going to be fun for the U of H students when they can't go to their school's games. To your question regarding if I were consulting Wren, I would recommend an arena in the range of 8,500 not including suites expandable for other events. I understand there's no point in having a huge arena that's empty but 7k is too small. I agree with wanting a more intimate experience but you put that low of a cap on your future attendance at the cost of $60 million. I personally hope they just renovate the facility because the location on campus is great. As a student, it was great being able to walk there after a late class and catch a game but I realize it may need too much work.

I think you're all missing the point. It's not about now it's about the future. Houston is going into the big 12 with a newly renovated undersized basketball arena. Let us not make the same mistake.

I noted size and not attendance to compare the venues strictly. Getting fans in is the job of the AD. Should USF downgrade to a 3k seat facility to meet their average? That would be ridiculous. They just need to put out a better product and market better. Negative, I disagree. Houston's arena was 10k capacity prior to 1998. They reduced it to just below 8500 in 98 and then to 7100 in 2017, prior to this latest success. When they started their renovation plans (funding, developing, etc...) in 2016, they hadn't been nearly as successful (I've attached their record by year for reference). It may have been a good size at the time, but I'm willing to bet if they knew they'd be going to the Big 12, they might have made a different decision. This is why we need to avoid building too small.