Mike Jackson

How do you get that wide open?

Absolutely my comment wasn't a shot it was just pointing out the obvious. With run block only OL they had and only being able to recruit good running backs I would have ran something very similar in his position

Anyone seen a commercial for UNT during the game yet?

Okay bad read by Fine. And the offense running in Memphis is nothing like the offense Dickey ran here.

Fine got too exicted on that throw. So how many of you take 7 to 7 with ball in your had at the end of the 1st quarter before this game started?

Guess that luck balances out.

If out D can compete for 4 quarters we can win this game.

Here! Here! and no tricked up kickoff returns when your Defense and Offense are playing pretty good.

I don't understand all the hate for Fine. He is not a P5 level starting QB I get it. But have we ever had that here? UNT Hall of Fame Inductee Scott Hall was great but he wouldn't be the automatic starter at most P5 programs. Only his scrappiness would earn him the starting job at mid-level P5 program. Hell even Major Applewhite got benched (underserved) for a "blue-chip" recruit. I don't know why we have such a hard time getting good QB here. I hope Fine's numbers in Seth's offense attracts some better QB recruits. But also what are the alternatives? I think that Quinn being the number one back up speaks more to the lack up quality depth at the QB position than Quinn's talent or performance in the Spring and Fall camps. If I were to make the switch at that position I would desperately want someone considerably taller than Fine. And have 2 RS upperclassmen that meet that description: Devlin O'Hare and Devin Issadore. They should be ones that really pushed Fine this offseason. The fact that it appears they didn't means 1 of 4 things to 1. They don't have an expert command of the playbook. 2. They don't trust them to stay academically eligible 3. They just don't execute well (physical shortcomings or accuracy). 4. They aren't good leaders. I just trust the coaches to know more than any of us when it comes to this. When we get these "more talented" QB recruits they need to have work good ethic and not think that the Mean Green program owes them something extra choosing not to go be a back up at Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, Texas A&M, or even Houston. "Negative Nancies" need to pump the breaks till we lose a couple of CUSA games.

Cerebus, omg usually I just type lol and don't actually do it physically. This had me rolling. lmao

Like it or not our team was whipped on the offensive line for 2 and half quarters. And regardless of whether you think SMU has a lower P5 level roster or not they still have better athletes than us. Also if you were at the game did you notice how many skill position players they have in the NFL. I think it would be correct to say they have out recruited UNT since 2010 at least. We do have the athletes to compete in CUSA. The wild swing of opinions on Fine in this thread reflects more poorly on our collective and objective knowledge of football than Fine. He is the best QB we have but his height is a limitation. With that limitation he cannot make an undermanned offense play above its head consistently. But for CUSA play he should do well if we have balance. As for the calls for Quinn Shanbour I will defer to the coaches who say Fine won the job. I saw nothing in garbage time against Lamar that made me doubt their decision.

Keep pooping winning conference championships, makes a lot of sense. smh

I'm in 100% agreement with everything you said. And I think pissing on Dickey is a part of that culture problem here. The casual fans aren't coming to Apogee unless you win Big and that means dominating your conference and winning 10+ games every year. When I talk about embracing students I get poop pooped on GMG.com. And I agree we do very little to get them engaged on average. Something simple like getting 100+ students to lead the band across the bridge and into stadium would be a start. I prefer going to college games over the NFL 100% because of atmosphere and the students are a huge part of that. It took a really long time to make the culture the way it is here at UNT so thinking a coach can just win and change that overnight is stupid. Other than an all-star big name coach coming here with an all-star support staff (invested in staying of the head coach moves on) could do that. UNT does not have that type of money so that isn't happening. Running off the best coach you had in over 20 years should be questioned especially since no coach has come close to his success since leaving. Winning the CUSA West Division is no more difficult than winning the Sun Belt back during Dickey's run especially when you compare our resources to our CUSA West Division foes. UTSA is brand new to FBS, Rice hasn't done anything significant (significant bigger that what has been reasonably achievable since returning to FBS) for since 1994 SWC co-championship, UTEP has 2 G5 level conference championships all-time, La Tech has 2 G5 level conference championships all time, UAB football has just returned from the dead and have virtually no historical achievements. The only CUSA West program that should have North Texas looking up is Southern Miss.

Nobody cares about the number of wins over bowl eligible teams you have. They care about wins and championships. No one cares that we beat marginal 6 win G5 teams. You can only beat the teams on your schedule and only win the championship of the conference you are in. North Texas could conceivably go 10-2 next year regular, lose in the CUSA championship game, lose their bowl game and could end the season without a win over a bowl team. Anyone lamenting that would be an idiot. The fact is that we at best will have maybe 2 winnable games against team that will eventually end the season bowl eligible each year. You could say 3 if you could a body bag game which you shouldn't. That isn't a low bar that is just realistic. If we had better OOC scheduling that might not be the case but we don't. It might not be the case if we were in a better conference but we aren't. Stop judging North Texas coaches on some made up bullshit instead of the actual job description. Win games and lead young men - In other words get young men to achieve the best academic and athletic achievement that are achievable with their gifts and hard work. So if you do that you coach should have a winning record most seasons and be in championship contention. That is what I wanted and what Darrell Dickey got us closet too while here. Dodge 0 championships 0 winning seasons, Mac 0 championships 1 winning season, Littrel 0 championships, 0 winning seasons. Dickey 3 winning seasons, 4 championships this shit isn't complicated.

Did not think my "just venting" would get so much attention. Long story short even all very interesting and solid feedback I would have still taken 3 more season of Dickey (if we get Apogee on the same timeline) than Dodge or maybe Mac. I doubted both of those hires. Seth on the other hand had no glaring red flags.

UNT’s bowl teams the early 2000s were build on the backs of a terrific class that was loaded with talent and the overall recruiting prowess of Darrell Dickey and his right-hand man Kenny Evans. There are some stubborn old timers who hate to admit it, but Dickey brought in more highly rated and regarded talent than any coach UNT has had since returning to the FBS level and he had less to work with than anyone. He also enjoyed more success. -Bret Vitto I would have been pissed too in Darell Dickey's shoes. How pathetic has this program been for 90% of the time since Dickey has been dismissed

Yes but you still have to coach them up. Also, did anyone think Matt Simon was a great recruiter?

So I am looking at all the information and analysis of UNT's recruiting class and I can't help but think about what could have been. Yes Darrell Dickey's last 2 seasons were bad but, 4 consecutive conference titles and: Phil Armour center, Indianapolis Colts (2000) Adrian Awasom defensive end, New York Giants (2005–2007), Minnesota Vikings (2011) John Baker punter, St. Louis Rams (2000–2001): Punted for the Rams during their Super Bowl XXXVI season. Patrick Cobbs running back, Miami Dolphins (2006–2010) Brad Kassell linebacker, Tennessee Titans (2002–2005), New York Jets (2006–2007) Cody Spencer linebacker, Tennessee Titans (2004–2005), New York Jets (2006–2008) Brian Waters guard, Dallas Cowboys (1999, 2013) Kansas City Chiefs (2000–2010), New England Patriots (2011): Pro Bowl (2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010), First Team All-Pro (2004, 2005), NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year Award winner (2009) Just saying he did a lot of things right and should have been given more resources to work with. I can't help but think we ruined our chances to be good now being short sighted then. Maybe if we had hired a "John Mac" type back then with college coaching experience and a staff with coaching connections in Texas high schools UNT would be a solid G5 program on par with Houston. The moral of this story is patience and try to see the big picture. UNT hired a first time FBS head coach so they need to give him at least 3 years get this program right. And for God's sake if Seth is fired 2 years from now, UNT needs to put on big boy pants. That mean going to get a big name coach who can recruit to "His" brand not UNT's. I am talking somebody Chip Kelly like otherwise like someone said in another post "continue to be like the Cleveland Browns"

This is why I said that bowl game didn't matter as much as the practice time. We don't need to be on TV at half empty Cotton Bowl Stadium in the middle of the day on a Wednesday. We need to on national TV in Denton in a sold out Apogee Stadium. And good ole RV scheduling made that virtually impossible without winning multiple conference titles and bowl games in consecutive seasons. But it is no time to dwell upon the past (at least in this thread). Seth knew (of should have known) the challenges he would face at UNT given its history. And this is also why if I were a hot FBS head coaching prospect looking for my first HC position I would pause long and hard before accepting it. With all that being said I am against any "consequences" now other than maybe reducing roles of some of the staff and adding one staff member. Give these guys a chance to coach up their additions from the first 2 recruiting classes. UNT doesn't get 6 wins or more next year and the recruiting is looking just as bad by mid December then heads need to roll.

@BillySee58 great breakdown. I don't follow recruiting much but I was still disappointed. They brought in a lot of bodies but nothing jumps off the page at you. When 247sports has the UNT recruiting class rank 12th out of 14 that is terrible. We all know these rating services can be grossly inaccurate but 12th out 14 making allowances for reasonable inaccuracies of their analysis would still have you in the bottom half of the conference ranking. This season will be critical going forward with Seth. His staff and him will have to get more out of on paper talent this team has to earn a bowl game appearance with wins instead of grades.

Exactly because it is not like we are getting Michigan, Ohio State, USC, Alabama, Texas or Texas A&M to come to Denton before Apogee is upsized to hold at least 50,000 plus. We are talking about getting middle of the road well known P5 teams that UNT could beat. You name any of the perpetual "also rans" in the P5 conference if we have played them 5 or more time in our history we have usually beaten them at least once.

What the naysayers seem to forget about the possible beating UNT receives in Apogee by any well known, well run P5 program is that it isn't about recruiting against those schools. Yes, all things being equal a recruit is most likely going to pick the more popular program. However recruits also what to have a good chance to start and a chance to be on the big stage occasionally. If these guys are not going to a P5 school they at least want to play against them somewhat regularly. I would like to see Colorado come here also. I think it makes a lot of sense for them if they want some more relevance in DFW recruiting. I think the Arizona teams would be nice P5 scheduling partners also. Most of the team we are listing are beatable for UNT in down years especially if they come to Denton. The primary focus in scheduling should be getting Apogee sold out and on National TV. If you do that twice in one season it could do wonders for the program long term.

No we need more quality bowls in the right location, on the right day of the week at the right time of day, against the right opponent. I am sorry but playing ULM in the "I have never heard of your company or product" -Bowl on a Wednesday afternoon in Provo, Utah isn't going to do anything significant when it comes to enrollment. UNT has problems but low enrollment is not one of them.

Education first, I hope this guy bounces back somewhere and gets his degree.

Only if you go with a younger coach who wants to keep one of them on board. This isn't a quick fix job where older good experience would be lining up to coach. This is tougher place to succeed in Basketball than it is for Football.