Mike Jackson

Yes without that they offer little in comparison to FIU in the same market. FIU has a larger student body, actually the largest university in the Miami region. So if getting into the Miami market was a driving factor it’s a coin flip IMO and the Bowl game likely was a very important determining factor since they didn’t get both schools.

Wow I didn’t expect that. Let’s see if it really happens. If it does the MWC made a massive miscalculation not going into the Texas market after the AAC tried to raid them IMO. Maybe they had talks with their media partners and didn’t like revenue bump offered for going into Texas.

I think if MWC. were interested in us and another “available” team in Texas they would have made the more already. What I find as a particular intriguing speculation is that the MWC to gauge the strength AAC moves to replace the departing teams and countermove. The boss move to enter Texas imo would be going grabbing Rice, UNT, SMU, UTSA/UTEP/Texas State. If we were in the conference SMU local TV ratings for both teams go up. Instantly adding a rivalry game to your TV package. Neither SMU nor UNT drive local TV numbers (except when we have a big winning season) but us together would I think. So my potential boss move as MWC commissioner would be gauging SMU’s interest in moving after the AAC make its recovery move. There isn’t a lot of moves that make sense of the AAC after getting snubbed in their first attempt. They should move East drop their western most (Tulsa & SMU). teams, grab Marshall, App State. Maybe add Army (conference Army v Navy game might be a problem. They should be an east coast conference centered around stronger brands Temple, Navy, ECU, Marshall. Get as many of their rivals added to the conference that make sense. Hell with that core and TV partner willing to help them they MIGHT (1 in a 1000 shot) lure road weary West Virginia out of the Big 12. Rivals would be there for them in that new AAC. A conference they could not just win but dominate.

That was his choice. 🤷🏽‍♂️ So he ruined his career. Head Coach is about coaching your assistants more than X’s &?O’s. You have to have a vision for the kind of athletes you want on both sides of the ball and have them switch positions if that is what best for the team and the player. He bought his own hype and leveraged it the wrong way.

Yet another reason why we should have let Seth go to KSU in 2018. Yet some persistent in their support of that move or acting we were lucky to have him and the prospect of him leaving was disaster. The reason he didn’t go is because after already being near the top in CUSA head coach salary he got a raise with NO HARDWARE to justify it. So the only lesson in that is maybe the next coach should take the P5 job. But there are a few P5 jobs that aren’t good as the one here except for the paycheck. Kansas Vanderbilt Illinois Indiana Oregon State South Carolina Virtually impossible to win your division let alone Conference. But all of them except maybe Vanderbilt expect the coach to get them to 0.500 in the conference sometimes and go to a bowl. Meanwhile it is impossible for you to get a top 3 rated class in your conference unless you arrive having already won a National Championship or playing at least 2 national Championship games. If Skip Holtz wants to improve his financial situation and move up one day UNT is definitely up for consideration. Larry Coker a championship ring bearer took on the challenge of building UTSA from scratch without a stadium on campus.

You are absolutely right. BUT that has NEVER been the point. Either Wren Baker authorized that extension and salary bump or he went a long with it. It was a horrible move because while a little bonus was warranted he had not done anything worthy of being the top paid HC in CUSA. I expect the athletic department leadership not to fall hype or be pressured by fans to make a bad financial move. No one would have taken Wren Baker to task if Seth turn down a very modest raise with one year tacked on to his deal and when to a P5 school. We have the resources to survive a “hot coach” leaving for a P5 job. We don’t have the resources fire a coach like LSU just did. ( I get it he was fired for more than just football performance). We aren’t ULM or NMSU and we shouldn’t be extending coaches at the top salary in the conference without a bowl win, conference, or even a close hard fought performance in a conference title game. All the excuses of why we can’t win at the G5 level here are gone.

Nice van

Nice to dream. I wouldn’t scoff at Seth taking 1 million of the buyout. I think that is fair. Shifting some of the rest he is owed to the staff that aren’t retained by the new head coach would be classiest. A year’s salary for each of them for 2022. As disappointed and long suffering as I am, I appreciate everyone that has tried to make the program a success. Especially the ones just trying to make a living. But bad moves need to be called out. And our leadership needs to play hardball with our head coaches and demand winning the conference to be paid the TOP salary in the conference. Seth was NEVER the best coach in the conference but he was paid that way. I can’t believe we have been debating this and calling it hindsight. 😢

It isn’t hindsight when you call it in real time. It was above average performance at a program looked at like it was brand new to FBS. We aren’t that and haven’t been in a long time. Even back long ago in late 2018🙄 (Right now UTSA is about go 7-0 something Seth has never done even with that gift of catching a horrible Arkansas team. Traylor inherited a team that was 3-9 and 4-8 in the 2 preceding seasons.) - now that comparison is hindsight. But guess who you COULD have hired if Seth left. 🤷🏽‍♂️ Seth’s 2nd and 3rd year were nice but NOTHING to overpay for. Let say the team doesn’t bottom out and it finishes right above 0.500 both years is that worthy of the highest salary in the conference? Even if he does not get $1 extra in 2019 as a raise he would be 3rd highest paid in CUSA today instead of the top. Oh and by the way, if you had given him a very modest 150k raise that year it would still be almost double what half the coaches the conference make today. Offer him some great bonuses tied to division, conference and bowl championships and be prepared for him to walk. I am tired of us excusing leadership here for acting we are so lucky to have a coach take a great paycheck and coach in really good G5 facilities. The program wasn’t going to implode any worse than it is now if Seth left for a P5 job. And if it did we would have better financial situation in which to make a move.

All that SEC money will be great for them, but they better start dominating the Big 12 on their way out. It might be nicer to lick your wounds in a palace than a mansion. But either way you are in pain and nicer surrounding don't matter as much. That OSU nut kick was on national TV also just like all their games against midrange SEC schools will be.

I disagree it actually is. I wouldn't have extended him at the salary level no way. Winning 9 games is NOT the standard in with us in any G5 conference (short of the AAC before the defections). That is a Fouts Field lower paid FBS level coaching staff in startup SBC standard. I don't know why 9 wins while playing in a division with disasters like Rice, UTEP restarts/upstarts like UTSA & UAB was held it such high regard. It was fun yes, but that isn't what you base long term decisions and investments on. His performance taking everything in consideration was just little above average and he was already getting an above average salary. Facts are several coaches in CUSA with lessor resources regularly beat his team and out coach him. We couldn't be any worse of a situation today if Seth departed at the end of the 2018 season. Worse case scenario the replacement coach is bad and we have a considerably lower buyout with 2 years or less left on his first contract. So what was all the money for if he wasn't underpaid? Insurance against what? Let's dissect these great years worthy of putting our program over a financial barrel that we shouldn't blame Wren Baker for. I am only looking at unexpected poor performances. 2017 vs SMU Seth's 2nd year vs Chad Morris' 3rd year blown out 2017 vs FAU Seth's 2nd year vs Lane Kiffan's 1st year blown out twice 2017 New Orleans Bowl lost by 20 to Troy 3rd year head coach Neal Brown 2018 vs UAB team's second season back after 3 year hiatus we lose to them at Home 2018 vs ODU 4 year playing FBS football they finished 4-8 2018 vs Utah State blown out 52-13 That win against a historically beyond horrible Arkansas team was great. But that was luck of the schedule more than anything special Seth did. Seth was hot but not bigger than the program hot. Among P5 programs KSU was a mid-range job at that time and still is. If he were entertaining an offer from upper tier P5 program that might be different. I thought it was a miscalculation at the time and still think is today.

Nice to have this back here

Yes, he was "hot". But he had not done anything spectacular here. Nice because we had been a disaster most of the 20 years in our return to FBS level football. Good programs should be prepared to let coaches without UNT Hardware (trophies) walk at the right time. And just with just 2 winning seasons going to a P5 program it was best to let him walk. Head Coach here is a good FBS job (even better then with new practice facilities plans finalized and a talented roster). I believe more quality coaches would have jumped at the opportunity to come here at that time. I don't think the timing exactly lined up but I wouldn't have been surprised if Sonny Dykes had come here if Seth departed a little earlier. We would have had more money to hire Seth's replacement also.

No, but it is fair to judge him on his decision to extend him with the terms that has us in this financial position right now. Seth wasn't underpaid at the time. Give him a very small bump in salary, increase/add some bonuses tied to real accomplishments, and add a year to the deal. That is what I expected but that isn't what happened. Raising your compensation by 1/3 isn't a small raise. That is why I said we can't just use Wren as the fall guy for this whole situation. If he were on track to earn 2 million with a bowl win or CUSA championship game appearance no one would be complaining about his salary. But this garbage AND you getting 1.8 while lessor paid coaches in conference have be kicking your going on 3 straight seasons? Can anyone say it was definitively 100% his call to extend Seth with that size of buyout? I hope there are some upper management people on this board that can attest that a lot of time the bigger decisions involving your direct subordinates are taken out of your hand. In general Wren Baker has been good for the Athletic Department. I wouldn't want to throw him out if this wasn't 100% his call. So I am judging him by what happen with the HC position at season's end. Firing not him does give you more time to contact coaches above board and express interest. Better coaches that know they will have options at season's end are going to take "what if" calls from "UNT sources" seriously. Their agents might mention us to them but their more valuable clients are likely to say; ' meh keep news about potential offers for schools at this level to yourself and let me focus on my current job.' Wren should have been the voice of reason in the extension process more level headed than your average alumni, booster or fan. He should have been warning that this worse case scenario we are in now, would be actually worse than loosing him to KSU at the time.

Don’t let Neal off the hook. I am not sure the extension (especially the size of it) was all Wren’s call. I think most smart AD’s at programs with resources to lure good head coaches aren’t rushing to extend a coach after just 2 winning seasons with no bowl wins or conference titles. (And remember was before the transfer portal blew up so you couldn’t be scared then that half the stars on the team would try to go with him)

Bravo to you sir for supporting this program through all these hard times. Take a break sir and please come back next year. Or if by a miracle they put on a competitive performance at one these road games come back for the home game following it. And if you meet Mike Jackson at a game mention to me you’re “long suffering” Marty from gmg.com forum and the first drink is on me. You deserve a break. And You deserve a competitive football program.

Not defending the magnitude of the lost at all but Portland State was a very good FCS program at that time. And traveling west to play an evening game is easier on the cross time zone traveling scale of difficulty. The west coast team ends up playing closer to a regular home kickoff time. Portland State was on par with where Sam Houston is today. And Sam Houston would have kill us today. They would have brought a couple thousand fans (maybe even their band) and they would been amped to beat us. So this lost looks better but this team was coached up just as poorly (I lost count of penalties midway through the 2 quarter at about a dozen). This wasn’t better in any significant way.

I for one wasn’t happy about the extension, especially the size. Like I said he was already well compensated for a CUSA program head coach. And had not reached some basic goals achievable goals here. ( Win a bowl game, Win conference or at least earn a conference championship game at home. Side.Show.Joe went off the deep end. I agree with the frustrated passion. Operating like you are desperate to keep a coach that has just performed adequately is something a program just moving from Fouts Field to Apogee in CUSA I would understand doing. If Mac had done similar I could maybe understand a desperation move. He had experience at the P5 level and he had been well compensated as a coordinator and head coach for over a decade. Seth had 3 WR with borderline NFL talent all 3 either on active roster or practice squad right now. A great running back now also in the NFL. (Probably a QB in the league to if he closer to 6’ 3” than 5’ 9”). We shouldn’t be in a rush to extend any coach that hasn’t put 3 winning seasons together within his tenure. I don’t think any school with resources better than most of its conference opponents should. Let the hot upstart walk and you are in position to hire another one. 🤷🏽‍♂️ Imagine what kind of staff we could afford to hire if we weren’t other 3 million in the hole with the current one.

It’s more than just football. I just want to know what was the discussion between Neal and Wren when they were pondering extending Seth. He was far from underpaid before he got the extension. He had not won anything significant. The offer should have tacked on 2 years with an extra 200k in each year, add in a bonus for a conference championship of 750k. If Wren was cheerleading the extension he got, then he would be on my hot seat. If Neal pressured Wren into extending Seth the Wren should be safe.

Are the receivers breaking off their routes knowing the OL won’t hold? The QB’s get adequate protection maybe 20% of the time at best?

Anyone interested in Spencer Rattler transferring here? Would there be an available coach that could help lure him here? (Hey weak topic maybe; but better than talking about this Marshall game)

Why ruin another QB that might have something? Let’s see what the walk on can do🤷🏽‍♂️ At least there is zero expectation with a walk-on.

If you get rid of the coach we might. Seth stays all year we don’t.

We play Liberty again? I thought that was an offer to for season ticket holder’s to get free of their season donations. I am guess I getting older I might need readers 🧐 next time I look at the schedule. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Give him half that money. Court makes your school look bad. Give the other half to the assistants he brought in to help him save his job. I feel bad for them.