Mike Jackson

I just disagree a road game in Wyoming does nothing for you also, especially if they are in a mediocre or bad stretch which is typical for them. People in my circle not invested in Mean Green football but are casual football fans are far more likely to come to a home game vs a FCS team they are familiar with than watch us play in Wyoming (Utah State, or Nevada) on ESPN 3 at 9:00 pm Saturday. Most fans are causal and that is where the growth potential is. So neither situation is ideal but from a revenue standpoint having a 7th home game is beneficial. SMU stopped playing Nevada 20 years ago. The last time they played Wyoming was 1998. Houston has never played Nevada and the last time they played Wyoming was 1988. We are supposed to be catching up with programs like SMU & Houston but we are scheduling OOC games like we catching up to being 20 years behind them. 🤷🏽‍♂️Having FBS* by your school name means very little. I wager that good percentage of fans and students that go to our games don’t know the difference and when Wyoming shows up in front of them in Apogee you could tell them they are FCS and they would believe you. I remember when Idaho was FBS but now they aren’t and similarly you could tell that same fan Idaho is FBS and they would believe that as well. For a knowledgeable ready to buy in fanbase; sure any FBS game is better. We don’t have that here so more home games are better. Now if return game for that game in Wyoming gets a season of all out of conference FBS opponents at home great. But I doubt that happens.

With logical speculation that the PAC 12 might be 💀 conference walking, I would call it ironic. Because I thought rats left sinking ships

Now who doesn’t follow College Football again? FCS teams don’t host FBS teams. (I think there is/was a rule against that but I maybe mistaken*). Furthermore even if they could in 99% of matchups the FBS hosting the FCS team is financially more beneficial for both teams. And in this discussion I never suggested a 2-1 with a FCS team. So you put out fake scenario that no one who follows college football would assume I was suggesting in this discussion. The simple comparison. Assuming we play well and win in either scenario. Rural away FBS game against a weak brand having an average season (or the season prior) 🟰 A home game against an FCS we local fans are familiar with and have a winning reputation. And financially probably more beneficial. The thread is about Wyoming and similar schools for non-conference scheduling nothing else. Never suggested doubling up on FCS games every year (you can count only one victory over FCS🤦🏽‍♂️ toward bowl eligible anyway) year either. *FCS teams in the process of transitioning to FBS can host FBS teams but their transition status makes them ineligible for FCS post season.

With the promotions of Cincinnati, and Houston there aren't many. And OK means toleratable if I were in a decision making roll and better options weren't immediately available from a financial/program marketability standpoint. Army, Navy, Air Force, and San Diego State. I would add Hawaii* especially if the provision of adding an additional game to your regular season schedule rule in still in tact. Otherwise the addition would be strictly a personal preference for a vacation in the fall with a built in excuse.

🙄 nope not at all. And the fact that you are comparing SEC schools and Clemson which would be a desired addition to the SEC to MWC programs that win nothing, don't' produce NFL players, and have horrible viewership numbers is laughable. When was the last time Nevada was ranked? Hell when was the last time Wyoming or Nevada won 10 games in a season? You can't be a weak brand, mediocre recently in football AND isolated and me or anyone else not from those rural states get exited to watch us play them. (Wyoming, Nevada, or Utah State). When I say "anyone else" that is an exaggeration but the point is the number that would be excited is few.

So far you have one like on this post. Also it is about all of FCS versus all of MWC. It is about road game vs home, the location of that road game and interest a FEW FCS teams might bring for students and local alumni. The fans who care enough to be on this board is a select minority anyway. For casual followers of college football and the Mean Green, winning the game is most important thing to advance the program forward. It is great to get Wyoming or any MWC team to come to Denton. But like the original poster mentioned, I would much rather a 2 for 1 contract with the Mean Green getting 2 at home.

If you looked at the list instead of just making this about conference affiliation you would have notice all those teams you just mentioned are in the list of top 84 brands. 😆 And USF and Temple are definitely not isolated geographically. And USF is huge and has been highly ranked a couple of seasons in the recent past. Temple is a historical elite basketball program and had back to back 10 win seasons under Matt Rhule 2016. Considering joining a conference is a much bigger decision with far more factors to consider than a couple of games. I am thinking about the bigger picture ELIMINATING schools that are net zero nationally. The 3 you mentioned are better brands than those isolated MWC teams that I am not interested in. That lack of interest is logically justified. So it a coin flip to me if we are talking one game a year versus an old Southland rival in Apogee or a weak geographically isolated brand in the MWC. There are a lot of MAC, CUSA, and Sun Belt teams that would be a meh for me scheduling also. It isn't just about the MWC. I judge each school on individual merit not just "hey it great they are FBS". I don't think anyone would be shocked that within 5-10 years programs like Nevada and Utah State drop down to FCS. And the only reason I don't in UNLV with their in state rival is their location in a popular city, Las Vegas. Location mean a lot when it comes to value of the program and perception of it. Hell if you keep everything the same with SMU but he campus is South Grand Praire instead of downtown Dallas they are Dallas Baptist, we are talking about 20 miles. And I wouldn't be campaigning for us to play a good DBU FCS program if they had one.

I noticed you didn't answer my question, so I won't respond to yours? Mind you I am not campaigning for loading up to the maximum of 2 FCS opponents every year with the exclusive alternative being these small isolated schools in the Mountain West. But if these teams are perceived as being in a down stretch we all know that isn't those games are going to get good media distribution slots. So there is no other value than to say we beat another FBS level school if we beat them. Unless it is game that has a spectacular play, record breaking individual performance or very odd occurrence, clips of it won't be on highlight shows. I don't follow mediocre teams in the Mountain West like the vast majority of College Football fans. 🙄 I am not just going off of my opinion either. All the MWC than I am not interested in UNT playing are "magically" not on the this list of top 84 brands in college football. That would seem to strongly suggest from a national perspective very few fans are following these teams. The MWC teams I have no reservations about scheduling are all on this list too. (listed below for convenience) I just have the crazy idea that if you are already excluded from this list of schools, a long road trip to play another school that isn't on this list is a slam dunk positive vs home game. https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/new-and-improved-ranking-84-college-football-programs-by-brand-value-6e2c65f64515 1. San Diego State 2. Boise State 3. Air Force 4. Colorado State 5. Fresno State 6. UNLV

I absolutely agree, but "giving the at-a-boy" for possibly leaving us behind is a bridge too far for ANY Mean Green fan and I had to comment on that. I wish we were more demanding. I wish more of us were asking questions like "why not go after Coach Sanders" once he established he could bring 4-Stars in back to back years to a FCS school. The one thing I will say about the SMU alumni engaged with the program, they demand excellence and put money behind it. A lot of the half ass stuff leadership has done here since 1995 wouldn't have been tolerated. It has always be my opinion that quality head coach hirings, firings, and facility improvements are perpetually 3-5 years late. We have never let go of a coach right on time. This last opportunity with Seth to let him depart for KSU and receive a buyout was squandered. And they doubled down and put themselves in a position where it was too expensive to get rid of a coach who had reached his ceiling here without wining a conference championship. It is that ineptness and perceived lack of dedication that has some SMU fans looking down on us (regardless of the outcome of a game).

National brands know for what exactly? Being state flagship schools? Without Wiki/Google Search quickly name a noteworthy pro athlete from University of Nevada or Wyoming not named Josh Allen. I had do a Wiki search myself before making that request and found Jay Novack. The last player we had that was born while Jay was still playing was Austin Aune. It is a net zero to play any of these team including our Southland mates if you are trying to sway opinion of people not already invested in the program. Then it becomes about individual preference of the fan. You just can't logically make the case that going on the road to 27k stadium in Reno, Nevada is really better than a home game against SFA or Sam Houston (assuming you don't crap the bed on the field in either scenario). And I would that a last seconds home loss against a defending FCS Champion or runner up is better than getting blown out by a Nevada, New Mexico, or Wyoming team that finishes with 4 wins or less.

As they should. In hindsight does anyone think if that Mac team squeaked out a victory against Portland State that regime would have rebounded with the program? Scheduling shouldn’t include “worse case scenario” thinking. It is a show for the home fans. Scheduling the teams I mentioned gives students an opportunity to connect with high school friends that went to SFA or Sam Houston State. I hope the few Mean Green fans that make the trip to Wyoming have a great time. But I will always lean towards a home game against a former FCS conference mate in our state over away games in isolated locations like Reno, Laramie, and Logan, Utah. If Wyoming is bad and we are not stellar ourselves we will have to search for the game on a stream. I think you have student engagement in your scheduling strategy. There is a generation of alumni you will never get excited except when you play G5 and P5 programs they respect. Wyoming isn’t one of those brands. You guarantee the game is ESPN2, or ESPNU I am all in versus having one of the FCS teams in Denton. Otherwise give me a 3-7 pm kickoff in Apogee stadium with some Rudy’s or Metzler’s BBQ.

Nope but thank you for illustrating the urinating on 60% of Dallas while having “Dallas” on the uniform mindset. 🤷🏽‍♂️😂

If they are not expected to be good when we play them exactly what does accomplish? Great if we get 2 games vs MWC at Apogee versus going to Wyoming, Reno Nevada, or Logan Utah. But beating those teams don't bring more attention than normal to your program unless they are ranked. Colorado State, Boise State, nd Fresno State maybe a little attention. San Diego State and UNLV are great destination games for Mean Green fans who can travel. And it always good to play a national brand like Air Force. The same reasons many favor our membership in AAC over the MWC are the same reasons that scheduling' any MWC we can get' as a net positive seem short sighted to me. And there' many G5s I would want to schedule instead of Wyoming.

The FCS game would be an extra home game. 🤷🏽‍♂️. And there are few nearby FCS programs I would welcome an extra home game with than Wyoming, Nevada, or Utah State on the road. Sam Houston and SFA would probably bring their bands also. I would even prefer a “body bag” game versus the top teams in P5. In these transfer portal climate it gives you an opportunity to get a peek at bench guys that may end up in the portal. I would much rather get a guy who couldn’t cut it at Georgia or a guy wanting to elevate from SFA than a disgruntled starter or bench player from Wyoming.

Nope can’t go there at all. They don’t really have fans they have trolls and alumni. No problem with alumni. But there is no such thing as “organically grown” SMU fan born after the death penalty. They aren’t Dallas’ team they are Highland Park’s team. Many of them wouldn’t urinate on 60% Dallas to put it out if were on fire. And a healthy percentage of them are T-Shirt fans Texas A&M, Longhorns, and Sooners fans most Saturdays if SMU isn’t going on an impressive win streak. I want them functional and in our conference only to kick their a**es every year. Otherwise they could visit the death penalty on their program again. Their historical refusal to play us before the “Safeway Parking Lot” quote is/was typical of the worst non-competitive elitism. I liken them to a young boxer too arrogant to earn his shot at the title by fighting other contenders and demanding a championship fight after just 10-12 bouts.

So what are the strategies to WIN? Because no amount of marketing is going to get people to invest in a local AAC team that doesn’t win. Unless your non-conference schedule is all old Big 8/SWC teams and you are competitive with them you can’t have an around 0.500 AAC record and get people to buy into program. Also you can’t lose all your most hyped home games for a decade (sans horrible weather game against UTSA) and expect progress either.

I would focus on the students. You win they will come out, if you don’t they won’t. I don’t think the athletic are foremost in students minds when the chose to enroll here. Sustaining success is definitely harder than a short spectacular successful run. But I think with our advantages over schools that had those great run and regressed are significant. I really think all we need to turn the corner is a good 5 year run that includes a few bowl wins and a combine record versus UTSA/SMU of 7-3 or 8-2 minimum. Then we can consider ascending from there.

The regression isn’t an excuse for half ass effort of leaders of our program imo. I hope that wasn’t part of the point you are making. They BEGAN a football program from scratch in 1997. You say they have been 💩the last 3 years and that is absolutely correct. We started with over 50 years of football history and already two years back in FBS under our belts head start. We haven’t even flirted with the level of success Boise State, USF and UTSA achieved coming to this level of football with no history on the FBS level (or ANY football at any level in the case of USF or UTSA). If you were to grade leadership when it comes to FBS football from 1995 till the end of 2022 season the grade would be C. The only way they could get a worse grade would be in the Sun Belt, dropped back down to FCS. They’ve done pretty much the minimum to for this program not to tank. All the proof of this I need is the turnouts we’ve had when the program did something noteworthy fans show up. But during that build up it hard to get my friends and family to come to games. And chiefly it is because well established reputation of the program of not swinging big and making moves late. The refrain I get from non-engaged alumni is that the program doesn’t try that hard. They want you to show up and spend money in comfortable mediocrity.

This entire post captures how my love for North Texas is matched by my frustration with the football program and the attitude surrounding it. It is hard to really say we have been 100% committed to winning with all the half measures we have taken over the years. With that in mind my criticism of Seth’s tenure would have be far less if leadership prior to his arrival gave me the impression they were 100%. It is also why I noted the lack of public courtship of Coach Sanders. I guarantee if the leadership that presided over USF during the early days of their ascension had a mediocre coach that had not won anything significant when uniquely hyped coach like Sanders was around they would have courted him. I think the silence on coach Sanders speaks louder to me than anything leadership had done since Apogee was completed. Coach Sanders guaranteed would have brought 4 and 5 star recruits here. He also would have motivated thousands local of alumni who are also mid 1990s Cowboys fans to pay attention to the program, buy tickets, merchandise, and donate especially if we started winning big. The PAC 12 is probably looking at adding North Texas and SMU as a package deal right now if we had Coach Sanders. We went cheap on facilities, support staff and coaches for as long as possible. Then when we have all those things in place we gave our mediocre head coach unwarranted contract security. And I believe largely because he was a nice guy and someone better would cost more (with or without buying Seth out). You can even look at Dickey’s tenure here and see the half-ass commitment. It would have been logical for the construction of Apogee to start somewhere toward the end of their undefeated run in the Sun Belt. But not only didn’t construction start end, it started 3 years after he was fired. I just get the feeling we are trying to win the budget friendly way without the elite academic reputation to support that model. So categorizing USF with UNT is just poor research on the author’s part. Who knows if our leadership will ever have the courage to make the huge commitment to getting us to P5 level. Because it is very reasonable to speculate that our move up to the AAC would have taken place a decade ago. If we played Houston and SMU annually for a decade (with a 0.500 or better record against both) and went to bowls the P5 are looking to package us with SMU and/or Houston to capture market share in Texas.

Way too speculative without knowing how hypocrisy of the term “student-athlete” will be adjudicated. If FBS is forced into a significant bump in revenue sharing among all FBS teams all to stave off making players employees then we can make some predictions. I also belief that at least 20 teams need to drop down to FCS regardless of what happens. Twelve teams max in 10 regional conferences and maybe 6 independent programs.

Congratulations Jeff. Please save and invest your money for the long haul. I hope to see you at Mean Green games often if you aren't in football in another capacity after playing days are done. 🙂

Well you can't talk about "academic elitism" without hypocrisy and send "student athletes" across 2 timzones in the middle of the week for a conference game. In the court case filing that will result in players becoming employees, I am certain that conference game travel hardships will be brought up by representatives of the players. I would like to see the government draw a logical line in the sand between school that plays to enrich themselves, coaches and administrators and school that do it purely to help keep alumni/students engaged. A financial structure needs to be mandated to prevent pros from getting financially rewarded for curb stomping Amateurs. I think the only way to do that is to put travel restrictions on teams that don't want to pay players and 1/3 of all media revenue and neutral site gate/merchandise sale revenue be shared among all FBS team have non-employee student-athletes. Once a split happens and these greedy programs will see a massive decline in revenue. Also with the salary restraint paying players will introduce, there needs to be a framework for a equitable and return to the student-athlete model with regulated NIL. (Probably all NIL contracts have a healthy percentage of it going a medical insurance program for all student-athletes, that extends month for month past graduation for low cost)

I think the demise of the Pac 12 as a P5 conference this year or within 6 years pretty much a done deal. Because not only is their new FBS media rights deal likely to be slightly less than the Big 12's deal, they will start the deal in a hole $50 million. I can't see SMU, another AAC school or any top G5 program playing for "free" in 2024 in the hopes that in 5 years they will get an equal share of a P5 level FBS media rights deal. Also looking at the current Pac 12 deal that includes UCLA & USC it just doesn't look like a per team payout of more than 25 million is possible. And if they get 25 million or more it would be a deal tilted towards an media outlet than doesn't have any FBS. The PAC 12 Network with it's existing staff and infrastructure would probably be responsible for the production cost with a streaming partner. If your program is competitive in a conference above the MAC and CUSA (in payout), a move to the Pac 12 doesn't make a lot of sense given the risk especially if you aren't in the original Pac 8 geographic footprint. I think we are in the best position possible given falling short of our goals during our tenure in CUSA. --- Also considering that current Pac 12 boss George Kliavkoff in the midst of their chaos still looks like a better option than Judy it is amazing that we were able leave that dumpster fire just in time. https://www.outkick.com/pac-12-conference-owes-comcast-50-million-due-to-their-own-incompetence/

I am watching The Monty Show on YouTube and they are begging Utah to let go of its “academic elitism" and make a prudent move. It has always been a stupid notion to look at an ATHLETIC conference affiliation as a source of "academic" pride if you want to compete at the highest level. Students with the grades and money to go to elite academic institutions are not thinking athletic conference affiliation. Stanford and Cal only nominally care about athletics. I could see them dropping down to FCS and trying to form a west coast version of the Ivy League. The academic elitism mindset of some of the leaders of the Pac 12 will be in the autopsy report for the Pac 12 if it is dies. Adding SMU and SDSU was a last ditch effort to stop the media rights contract value from dropping to much. SMU can't draw TV viewers in its home market. And the Musty-stangs are certainly not drawing PST viewers.

It is a very stupid way for them to look at any local FBS level program. If I am TCU or SMU of course I would want to play UT, TAMU, or maybe even Tech if it is one for one trade. Financially it just makes too much sense not to play D1 programs within 30-40 miles of your campus. Cheap travel, easier to sell tickets and have events for the “away” game. It isn’t like hundreds of local students will switch which school they want to go to simply over one football game win. And plenty of alumni have undergraduate and graduate degrees 2 of these schools. I maintain if there were a series held between all 3 schools consistently since 1995 all 3 programs would be in a better place today. (Or in TCU’s case in a P5 sooner than when the Big 12 added them).