GL2Greatness

very similar to north Texas http://www.unt.edu/admission/ http://www.utsa.edu/admissions/undergrad/requirements/2013-requirements.html

yea but 8 K less than SA's team and about 10.5K less than San Marcos's team

he was 32-28 in 5 seasons there that VS 56-85 in 12 seasons in the same conference for someone else I guess doing something special depends on what your view of special is and just because he did not win huge at TAMU that does not negate that he did win big at multiple other programs throughout his career.....and he guided a team in their first D1-A game to a win over a team that was 12-1 last year in front of the second largest home crowd ever for that team

1 14-4-2 at Southwestern in 2 seasons 53-6 in 5 seasons at Pittsburg State 6-5 then 7-4 at SWT his first go around 33-36 at UNM, but he took them from terrible to 9-4 in his last season there and UNM has been as a terrible program forever 25-10 in 3 years at TCU including 10-1 his final season there 7-5 then 10-3 at Alabama that was coming off a 3-8 season the year before and was on major probation so yea he has done nothing special and it was all because of LT football ignorance and avoidance of reality abounds on this forum

no no....it was Larry Coker that is the has been

Lamar Dinbar was my favorite MG player!

why would you think that....I am a big proponent of RV....the meanandgreen forum places the blame for everything on RV.......while I properly place it on the actual university and system administration

I just tried to log onto the meanandgreen forum and it crashed.......service 503 error

In the concrete will be a “Green Light to Greatness” motif, based on UNT’s new tagline, which the university adopted in February when it released its new five-year strategic plan yes!

giving tickets away will be a disaster....one need only look at the olympics where sponsors were handed loads of free tickets to give away and they did just that and people placed so little value on them they did not even show up to see the best in the world compete once every 4 years

in 2010 the THECB has the 4 year graduation rate for TSU at 3.6% the 5 year at 9.5% and the 6 year at 14.9% for north Texas it is 24.7%, 49.5%, and 57.4% the 6 year rates with persistence (student is still enrolled) are 31.4% and 70.6% so they close the gap somewhat over the longer time period.....the state does not collect data to see how long total it takes them to graduate or if the actually do after 6 years TSU should be closed and the land turned over to UH and TSU merged with UH Downtown (that also has pathetic graduation rates) and they can call it any name they wish (they should call it Houston Metropolitian University) and it should remain under the UH system......that would get rid of the redundency of having one very poor state school next to one very good state school while haing another very poor state school only a few miles away in downtown Houston and it would also cut down on overhead and administration at two very poor universities and it would get rid of the corruption that is rife at TSU that leads to their poor performance and lack of accountibility and it would get rid of one of the 4 independent universities in Texas add in giving north Texas-dallas to DCCCD and you have cut down on two unneeded and poor performing universities in Texas out of 36 total

I am not really what lack of leadership you mean for Dr. B she was way better than I thought she would be when she was first hired....she had been a mid level paper pusher and an interm president of a small arts college in the UNC system when hired and I figured that lee the idiot had her pegged as the perfect "yes woman" when he hired her with that background I did not agree with her "peas studies" degree program at a time when those types of degrees are becoming increasingly worthless, but on the other hand she clearly tried to stop the trend of trying to steal money from Denton students to be wasted in dallas proper and she stood up to that and was fired for it I was also not a fan of her make Cs in HS and get a free ride program either, but that is past now the THECB never wanted north Texas to buy the UCD and was specficially against it and made north Texas agree to host the other members of the UCD for as long as they desired and then after the "system" (Denton students) paid for that building (because northTexas dallas was still a part of the Denton campus at that time and still can't pay for their current buildings without "system" (Denton students) dollars) and the med school is funded differently (which means that "system" resources come right out of Denton students pockets) it was only a couple of years later that the "system" was telling the UCD members INCLUDING DENTON to take a hike because the building was going to be used for administration (after moving administration out in the little guys movers truck in the middle of the night) and it was going to be used for the law school that is also sucking "system" resources out of the Denton campus Dr. B stood up to that, she stood up to the movement of the IT infrastructure, and she stood up for Denton and was fired again Texas funds universities the same.....there are no special allocations for "north Texas is doing all these things".....and in fact north Texas keeps getting DENIED on trying to get resources to "do all these things"......their last "win" was the 5 million 4 years ago to waste on start up cost for the law school......they lost on getting extra infrastructure funding for the second building in south dallas to be built larger than formula funding called for and they spent the "system" resources anyway on a "calculated gamble" with some "belt tightening" and that gamble has been a failure because that campus has lost enrollment every year it has been open for 3 years running and more than likely because of that the "system" will never be paid back for that "calculated gamble" that money has been spend out of the Denton campus and is gone wasted in south dallas forever.......they have lost repeatedly on law school funding to even actually open and they have lost repeatedly on money to renovate the old dallas muny building and for the law school then on money to renovate the top two floors of the UCD for the law school....and yet they continue to waste "system" resources on planning and basic work towards renovating that building when it should be clear the law school is all but dead ask yourself in a state that funds on formula funding with two different methods for funding medical schools and 4 year universities.....in a "system" that consist of a medical school, a large 4 year university, and an unneeded and declining enrollment "university" that can't even pay for itself.....where do "system" resources come from.......and when the Denton campus is going to students and saying "lets not bond out the union lets increase fees on students to keep money out of wealthy bankers hands" and then at the same time that "system" BONDED OUT the expenses of building a building in south dallas larger than it should be on a "calculated gamble" while the "system will just have to belt tighten".......who is taking it in the ass on that deal....and then two long time programs in Denton (fashion and dance) will be housed in Tshacks right in the middle of campus because there is no "belt tightening at the system level" or "calculated gamble" to build them a real damn building after the union project knocks theirs down.....who out there is looking out for the Denton campus students....you know the university that pays the damn freight in the "system" and when VLR went to the BOR and wanted to increase admissions to keep up with UH and so that UTSA and TxState and UTA would not soon pass north Texas as well when they continue to rasie admissions......the BOR shot him down so fast it was not even funny....some "fight" he put up for the Denton campus......the "system" needed those warm bodies to keep funding projects in dallas proper......and after the Denton campus students paid more money in tuition specifically to hire new faculty.....when the Denton campus had a decrease in enrollment of 500 or so students (the first decrease in many years and under the watch of VLR) that is 500/36,000 or a .014 decline in enrollment....and suddenly there is no money to hire ANY new faculty.....but there is still money for building bigger buildings that state funding allows for in south dallas....there is still money for full speed ahead (into a brick wall of failure) for the DALLAS law school.....while two Denton programs get Tshacks across from the new union in the middle of campus.....and of course the enrollment decline was a reason for not raising admissions as was the need for warm bodies to keep funding dallas projects UH raised their admissions in 2010 and they have kept right on rolling with adding 1K students per year just like the last few years before that.....noth Texas is "stay the course" and LOSING 500 students the last tiem around....UH got "tier 1" funding along with TTU while increasing admissions and gainign enrollment......"stay the course" has ONE criteria met for "tier 1" funding tying UTSA and behind everyone else....."stay the course" is dead last even behind TxState in restricted research and by about 1/3 so a significant difference Dr. B at least had a plan for growing research even if it was not being met actually she had two to work with....the one that was in place when she started http://research.unt....cPlan0813-2.pdf and the one she did http://research.unt....May 24 2010.pdf VLR gave us this http://news.unt.edu/...an-and-new-look oh yea and some cold hotdogs and some swag bags (not even the good kind of swag either) boy that is pretty bold 4 things that every university should do, a color change, and a tag line.....oh yea and STAY THE COURSE!.....not even meeting the actual written goals of the past administration towards "tier 1" the ONLY thing that has been any big deal inder VLR was the outside fundraising.....and that is a big deal, but other than that he has been every bit the yes man that Dr. B was and in some cases way worse if you want to compare Dr. B to VLR then compare 100% of the truths and faults with each of them.....because at least Dr. B appeared to be in it for the long term and comitted to Denton while VLR is going to be 75 in November and he has done some of the things that he does well.....like raise funds, but he has absolutely 100% laid down to lee the idiot when it comes to taking up for th Denton campus and it has cost the Denton campus greatly in terms of money and in terms of the future and he was "hand chosen" after NO SEARCH from his temporary assignment specifically because he would lay down for 4-6 years until the next guy comes in and things will already be set in stone by then and the money will long sense have been stolen this HSC merger is just another one of lee the idiots half baked plans to try and make something happen without actually doing anything and The State of texas is wise to that crap by now and lee the idiot has ZERO credibility with them

UH has no medical school....they have Optometry and Pharmacy the TTU medical school has always been seperate and the full 4 year medical school in El Paso is under the Lubbock medical school, but they are looking at making it seperate as well.....the TTU Pharmacy program is under the medical school and is in Amarillo and has now expanded ot Abilene as well....the nursing program at TTU is also under the medical school and is in Lubbock and Odessa and possibly Amarillo in the future the TTUHSC research is not counted towards the NRUF requirements it is stand alone if the two north Texas schools were combined they would have about 40 million in restricted research with a needed goal of 45 million.....that is 14,476,509 for the university in actual restricted research and 26,236,587 in federal research for the HSC.....not all federal research will count as restricted research and there MAY be a very small portion of state, institutional, and private research that counts towards restricted research, but not much if any.....so about 40 million is where the two would be combined the HSC has 6 million in endowment according to the THECB so that is little help towards the 400 million in endowment qualification the HCS awarded 17 doctoral degrees in 2011 so that is not a huge help towards the 200 needed, but north Texas is not that far from 200, but not all doctoral degrees are PhDs and only PhDs count so there could be even less than 17 that would count towards the total othar than that the HCS will really not help with any of the other "tier 1" metrics UTSA looked at merging with the UTHSCSA in 2009 and decided against it http://www.mysananto...THSC-840822.php the UTHSCSA did 117.5 million in federal research in 2011 so that would easily push UTSA over the needed 45 million since they were at 30.429,992 in restricted research for just the university in 2011 and only about 10% of the federal research for UTHSCSA would need to be national competitively awarded "restricted" research and I am sure way more than that is the UTHSCSA has a 412 million dollar endowment and that alone would be another metric met for "tier 1" without the 90 million included for UTSA alone so the two would have a 500 million+ dollar endowment the UTHSCSA awarded 49 doctorial degrees in 2011, but it does not break down which are PhDs and which are professional degrees as well and UTSA is a ways away from 200PhDs awarded annually so that would not be a big boost in that metric the fact that UTSA decided against it (the UT System) and the fact that Texas uses a completely different formual to fund universities VS HSCs tells me that there is only a small chance this merger happens the fact that UTSA (the UT System) decided against it also tells me that even if it does happen it either will be excluded from helping towards "tier 1" or the "tier 1" metrics will be significantly elevated either for everyone or for those including a medical school that has been merged Texas Tech could have easily merged and met the requirements the first year, UH does not have a medical school.....UTA and UTD (either one) could have merged with UTSW and met the requirements and UTSA could have merged and come very close to getting the funding and none of them did so and that tells me they knew it either would not help them or the funding formula differences would have cost them to the point that the additional "tier 1" money would not have helped over come the cost of the merger in formula funding TAMU is looking at merging theirs into the TAMU campus, but the TAMU system is a bit different than the others in that 1. they do not have any schools in the emerging research category to be eligible for "tier 1" participation and 2. because the main university already has a large number of "outside" things under the main campus like Ag Extension and Ag Research and Engineering Extension and Research and The Forestry Service and Texas Transportation Institute they already have a large main ccampus administration dealing with locations state wide and they would not have to be as concerend with formula funding differences not covering overhead cost or costing them money overall lastly the whole main idea behind "tier 1" was not so much to make Texas universities look better to outsiders based on numbers alone, but to actually increase the amount of federal research dollars flowing into the state and a side effect of that would be an increase in stature for the universities......merging schools and HSCs does not accomplish that goal at all and it really would not significantly raise the stature of most institutions even if it was done there is a very limited amount of funding available now because the NRUF endowment is so small and the amount it pays out is not near enough to raise the stature of even a single university much less the two it pays out to now and spreading that money around even thinnner would pretty much make the amount of money awarded meaningless in the overall scope of the goals UH would complain the loudest because they have wanted a medical school for a while now and do not have one to merge with and TTU would either be against it (they have looked at merging in the past and the formula funding issue stands in the way and they are looking at having El Paso as a stand alone school as of now) or they would simply merge and keep right on getting funding.....UTD could easily merge with UTSW and make the requirements and UTSA would be close that would leave UTA and UTEP and TxState without an option to merge and I don't think the UT system is looking to pick winners and losers in their system right now between UTA and UTD and leaving UTEP and UTSA out in the cold......which tells me the UT System will be against merged university and HSC metrics being allowed to count towards "tier 1" even if mergers are allowed also since UTD will easily be the next campus to qualify for "tier 1" funding (even though it will still not be enough to make a difference overall) and that was pretty much the plan all along for the UT System I doubt they will want to allow a move that lowers the payout to UTD along with UH and TTU so basically even if the merger does happen I personally feel it will be of no benefit, it will only lead to increased metrics for "tier 1" with the possibility of higher metrics for schools with a merged med school, or it will significantly reduce the awarded funding to the point that it is of no benefit to anyone and I don't think that the other 7 emerging research universities and their systems are going to allow that it will not be a full medical school so far in dallas it is only 3rd and 4th year similar to Round Rock and the Baylor College of Dentistry is a TAMU institution already so TAMU already has a presence in dallas and they already have one "Baylor" affiliation even though the Baylor Hospital System is independent of the university and the College of Dentistry

actually major investors invest in things all the time that go broke that is why there are bankruptcies look at Victory Park the whole development went under and several of the condo buildings have gone under....the Stoneleigh Condo project went under.....the "stonehenge" parking garage in the arts district went under and has sat for a decade or more......the museum tower will most likely go under and it is not an argument that the convention center hotel will necessarily go broke (although there is little chance they will see their expected room rates for many many years) it is the argument that it will cause several other new hotels in Denton to either go under or struggle to remain a nice property and that will not be good overall for Denton and it will play against the convention center overall since the convention center will need more than 350 rooms at the CCH to draw larger conventions and when you are driving three of the newest nicest properties in town out of business or into low or no profits you will suddenly find what many are talking about now which is a city with a bunch of very worn and dated hotels if the convention center can't attract enough NEW guest to make up for the existing guest it will poach from other properties then it will find itself becoming less and less attactive as Denton struggles to keep mid level and higher properties updated and open to serve the larger groups it hopes to attract with the convention center the three hotel owners are not saying a convention center will fail (or even that the hotel next to it will fail) but they are saying that it is not fair to tax them to pay for a convention center with 350 new rooms next to it when they do not believe the convention center will draw in enough NEW business to keep both the new convention center hotel open and their hotels open (that do not have the benefit of a convention center right next to them paid for with taxes on all Denton hotels) the fact that the old hotel in that location that was a Sheraton and then a Radisson and was the most "full service" hotel in Denton struggled for years and years even when the economy was good and while located right across from the university and was ultimately bought back by unT and imploded shows that there is questionable demand for a hotel of that type.......true it did not have a convention center next to it, but it had the best "brand" of any hotel in Denton the entire time it was open with the most "service" and it struggled to stay updated and to make money which is why it is gone now nothing has changed abuot that location and the only market changes are the fact that the economy is much worse off now than when that hotel was open.....the fact that a football stadium is now on the same side of the freeway is hardly relevant since it is still about the same number of fans showing up to games and it will be the same number of games per year and that Radisson was still the closest "full service" hotel to unT and fouts.....and that was not enough to keep it from not being able to renovate or stay relevant or open and in this economy I and at least three new hotel owners in Denton do not believe that a convention center will bring in enough business to support 350 new rooms and not steal existing business from existing hotels the Sheraton/Radisson at the time it was open had some of the largest meeting spaces in Denton and it was not able to leverage that fact into enough profits to stay updated and at least one company that is in the business of building hotels and convention centers with over 80 in the USA and several in Texas that invested a large amount of money putting together plans (J.Q. Hammons) seems to think that the time is not right for this project and that it is not viable which is why they walked away the Radisson may not have had a full "convention center", but it was the top "name" property and the top services offered in Denton and it struggled one can see what they did offer in this photo....that is easily large enough for 150+ people if not more

to hickotyhouse I don't doubt that in a particular market a hotel renovating can make it competitive with a newer property but what you seem not to get is the three hotel owners that had the meeting are the three owners of the newest hotels in town and they are the three owners of the hotels in town that are at the highest service level of any of the current properties in town.....and they are struggling......so saying that the way to help them or any of the other hotel owners in town is for the other 20+ hotel owners in town to spend money to renovate makes no sense.....because the owners of the three newest and nicest hotels in twon are struggling.....they are struggling with BOTH low occupancy and with low room rates......so they are either losing out to other hotels in town (that are also 50% full as the article states) based on price or based on location....which means the other hotel owners in town again should probably not renovate because they would then not be competitive on price and yes you have a point that lower end and crappy properties can drive down the rates on average, but the higher end properties in Denton with the highest levels of amenities in town should be at the top of the room rates correct......and yet all three of those properties are the ones that are struggling and they are the ones that showed up to the meeting......so how will it benefit other hotel owners to renovate, raise their rates, and then still lose money if not more money when they lose the price advantage.....because as of now the three newest and highest amenity level properties in town are struggling because of low occupancy and low room rates......which shows no reason or incentive for others to spend more money on their properties and as I showed in the REVPARs for individual hotels in dallas property even extremely high end properties the $145 a night is not realistic at all for any property in the metroplex.......because some of the nicest hotels in dallas are not coming close to that and as I showed with basic math above the new hotel at 60 million for 350 beds would need an occupancy of 50%+ and at $75 dollars plus just to come close to hoping to make a profit and any way you slice that 50% of 350 rooms over 365 days a year is 63,875 visitors per year any less than 50% and you would need even higher room rates.....room rates that would be higher than many of the highest end properties in dallas are dealing with and even if 20 other junk properties in Denton are dragging down the average for the three new properties in town.....the CCH would still need a room rate higher than those three new properties while being only 50% full every night of the year and to do that is still almost 64K new visitors per year........if any of those 64K visitors are not new visitors to Denton then they will be visitors taken from existing properties and since the people staying at the new hotel would be paying a very high rate well over the average rate in Denton and surely over the average rate for the three other new properties only a slight level below it would make sense to suggest that would be business lost by those three new hotels because the people staying at the CCH instead of at some other property are willing to pay a high rate...they were not price sensitive guest they were the exact existing guest that the three new hotels are hoping to lure in that would instead be lured away by the CCH again I showed with the basic math that to even come close to breaking even and staying relevant the new property needs to either be 50%+ full at $72.50 per hight or it needs to be even more full at a lesser rate or less full at an even higher rate and while it is easy to toss out what DJ Plum Plum is talking about.....a SINGLE EVENT that does not even come yearly that takes up beds for 3-5 nights out of a YEAR....that does not pay a hotels bills and even if the event brought in one MILLION people for three nights the fact is that you can't go around building hotels for events that happen for three nights per year much less ones that happen three nights per year not even every year.....that is how you end up withn a ton of hotels empty and broke you need to look at the number of guest every single night of the year, what you can get from them, and how many nights you can get them and work that into the number of hotel beds in the area/market and for the CCH to come close to doing anything that would remotely pay the bills and deliver any type of profit that would need to be nearly 64K NEW visitors over a year period paying somewhere over $72.50 per night as I showed before and since not one, but three of the newest and highest amenity level properties in Denton are struggling to make it there does not seem to be a reason to think that a new CCH would compete without taking guest from those properties unless someone can show how that hew facility would contribute 64K NEW guest per year and not all those guest in a single weekend spilling well out of the market and staying all over the metro area.....because again hotels don't expand and contract based on how many people are in town on a given weekend and while they do have proice flexability it is not like they can charge $1,000 because they are the closest hotels and people will just ignore the gouging and suck it up and stay there while the price sensitive people go to south dallas to stay at $15 per night so this facility will not need to bring in one single home run or two home runs or even 5 home run events with millions of people......it will need to bring in events every week week in and week out of 350+ people and then when it does not have an event that week it will either need to sit empty or the next week it will need to bring in enough people to an event that will make up to the other hotels in town for the guest it had while there was not an event (existing market guest) or it will need to do enough guest that are willing to pay a high enough rate that it will make up that canabilized business......and that is the type of room rate that would start making the Denton market non-competitive with the very high end properties all over the metro area and as the article stated the government pays $77 per room night max......so there is one rate point set right there and surely other busiess men and convention planners are not just going to ignore the market rates all over the DFW area at comparable or even higher end properties and spend more to come to Denton so as we can see the three nicest hotels curently in Denton with what should be the highest room rates are struggling with both price and occupancy......and we can see that a single event a year or even 5 events per year or even 10 events per yearat three nights per event of extremely high prices is not goign to do it.......because there is still 335 other nights in the year and because at some point those extremely high prices are not going to be competitive and as shown before for the new CCH to come close to doing anything it will already need nearly 64K guest per year at al already high rate just to come clsoe to paying the bills if it gets an event of 35K people for 5 nights and it can charge $1,000 per night while others stay on dorms ect it will still only have 350 rooms to offer and even if those guest are willing to pay $1,000 per night that is only 69 room nights average at $72.5 and that means there are 296 more room nights left in the year to attract 175 guest per night at $72.5 per night.....because attracting less than that in NEW guest means the CCH will either struggle to pay the bills or it will pull guest from the exsiting properties and some people might say screw those other properties, but when they (and the other 20 hotels in town that are already not renovating) can't keep renovating or can't stay open eventually the number of local rooms of any decent quality declines to a point that you can't attract even the few home run events because of lack of available decent rooms because those rooms have fallen into disrepair.......and when you start losing those events....your CCH starts falling into disrepair you can't rely on other hotels in town to provide quality guest nights on one hand to land the big events and then on the other hand when there are no big events say screw them I need the business here to keep the lights on and cut the price and when your new CCH needs 63,845 guest per year at $72.5 per night to stay HALF full and to come close to servicing the debt, covering the light bills, paying the employees, and making a profit and it only has 350 beds a single event or even 10 events is not going to provide that because that facility can only see 350 beds a night

here lets do simple math again http://www.dentonrc....o-cover-gap.ece from the article above it will be $60 million dollars for a 318 bed hotel room lets say that O'Reilly hires Manhattan Construction and manages to get the 350 beds talked about in the other article for the 60 million over 30 years (a long time to finance a commercial property development) that is 2 million per year in needed revenue just to cover the construction cost and that is WITHOUT including any interest payments and that is WITHOUT including any profits on that 60 million and that is also not including any overhead for utilities, employees, or for renovations.......so it will require 2 million dollars for 30 years if this hotel is to open, interest free, with zero employee cost, no utility cost, and zero return on the investment of 60 million for a 20 year investment of 60 million with zero overhead, zero interest, zero profits, and zero renovations or improvements for 20 years it will cost 3 million per year so if you can somehow operate a 60 million dollar hotel room with 350 beds for 20 years with no interest payments, no profit on the 60 million investment, no employee cost, and no utility cost and with no additional renovations improvements, new towels or any other investment it will cost you 3 million per year 3 million / 350 /365 = $23.48....so for this hotel to operate for free and to be full every single night of the year for 20 years it needs to bring in $23.48 per room for 350 rooms every single night of the year for 20 years just to cover the cost of 60 million dollars to open and "exist" the above article states they are projecting $145 per night (even though the consultant out of Houston says that is in no way realistic) so if this hotel is going to run for free without improvements or overhead for 20 years and break even on a 60 million dollar investment with no profits and it wants $145 per night hen it sells rooms $23.48 / $145 per night = 16.2% so this hotel running 16.2% full every night of the year for 20 years with no overhead and no profits and no renovations they could do that with their projected $145 per night so we all know that for anyone that actually wants to make money, for any bank that wants to do more than borrow at the Fed Discount window at 0% and then loan out to a hotel at 0% there has to be an interest paid and there has to be profits on that 60 million dollar investment over 20 years......and that is not even getting into the overhead of utilities and employees and that is not even getting into the renovations that will need to take place at some point over that 20 years but to ignore all of that and just make 60 million back over 20 years the hotel could charge $145 per night and be 16.2% full per night16.2% of 350 = 56.7 so this hotel would need to sell 56.7 rooms per night every night of the year to return 60 million over 20 years with no overhead or renovations or profit or interest and for this hotel to not steal business from existing hotels it would need to draw in all 56.7 of those guest with the fact that it and the convention center exist and nothing else 56.7 X 365 = 20,695.5 room nights per year so this facility needs to attract nearly 21,000 new guest each year (not existing business it takes from other properties) just to produce enough to run with no overhead and no profits so now if you look at reality and realize that $145 per night is a joke and nowhere close to what this property will bring in......and you reduce it to something closer to reality like half of that or $72.5 now the property needs to average 32.4% full per night or 113.4 guest per night.....and that is making no money, no overhead, no interest, and no renovations for 20 years 113.4 X 365 = 41,391 guest per year for 20 years at $72.5 per night ......with no interest payment, no profit on investment, no employee cost, no utilities cost, and no renovations for 20 years once you start adding in employee cost, money for renovations every few years, utilities, interest payments, PROFIT and on and on....suddenly you need to sell way more than 41,391 rooms per year of NEW business or 113.4 rooms per night for the same or more $72.50 per night see how that works so can the hotel cover the employee cost, can it cover the utilities, can it pay interest on that 60 million, can it return a profit on that 60 million, can it put money aside to do renovations every few years if it is 50% full per night?....can it do that at $72.50 per night at 50% full.....or does it need more than that......can it take in $100 per room sold at 32.4% full and do that....see something has to move....it needs the price or it needs the room sales.....if it gets the price that just means it is less and less financially competitive with other metro area properties that are not coming close to getting a revpar of $145 per night......and if it is not getting that revpar then it needs to sell more and more rooms per night and either way just to cover the construction cost over 20 years it needs to be 16.2% full.....at that ridiculous $145 per night...and that is with no overhead profits or anything else....just 60 million over 20 years so it seems pretty easy to say that it will need to be somewhere around at least half full at somewhere over $100 per night for 20 years just to come close to even breaking even, covering debt service, making a profit, renovating every few years, paying employees, covering utilities and the like so this property will need to sell 50% of the rooms at over $100 per night or probably more than that to come close to making any type of decent return and staying relevant 175 X 365 = 63,875 guest per year.....and to not take guest from existing businesses it needs to generate 100% of those guest because it "exist"......otherwise it is stealing guest from existing properties and driving down profitability at existing properties and I think that is probably pretty conservative to say a hotel can be 50% full each night and return a profit to investors, cover expenses, keep renovating and stay competitive....because as we can see the existing new hotels in Denton that are staying about 50% full at $55 per night are having trouble staying profitable and paying the bills so this hotel as a new property, with higher end amenities, higher cost associated with that....will need to generate to generate 63,875 guest per year at a price over $55 per night and it will need to generate 100% of those on it's own or it will either be stealing guest from existing property or losing money and the sad fact is that it will probably be doing both.....stealing guest and still losing money.......because 175 guest per night or 63,875 guest nights per year is quite a stretch for NEW business and again all of that is based on making just the most slight profit IF any profit at all and especially to do so at nearly double what mid level properties that are 3 years or less years old are averaging per night again that is simple basic math....and that is not including the 25 million dollar cost of the convention center and that is using 60 million for a 350 bed combination of hotels VS what the article says is 318 rooms for 60 million so giving this hotel all the benefits of a doubt that it will pull in $100 per night, that it can get 350 beds for 60 million (when they are saying 318 beds in the article I linked) that it can sell 50% of the rooms every night and that it can operate with extremely low overhead and employee cost and a very small profit margin and extremely low interest rates.....it is still quite a stretch to think that facility with the sole "it exist" will generate enough NEW business to the Denton hotel market to not steal business from other properties or to lower the average room rate or both

The Embassy Suites is hardly a true full service property and barely above the level of the three hotels mentioned in the article....the only difference would be a bar and restaurant in the Embassy which all three of those existing hotels mentioned in the article have in the immediate area because they are located right at the chain restaurant row in Denton.....while it is true that some might wish to not leave the property at all or to have some lunch catered for their business meetings in the afternoon the Embassy restaurants and bars are not known for being anything great they are just one additional service above the properties mentioned in the article also while the rack rates per night that you quote might be accurate.....no large group is going to pay anywhere near that rate and more importantly that is the rate per night on a single night......revpar is the average rate over all nights that hotel is operating.....so a hotel might have an advertised rack rate of $1,000 per night, but if they only sell that room one night a month their revpar is $33 dollars per night which is how one goes broke you can't just measure the rate charged on any single night you have to measure the rates charges along with the number of rooms sold VS the total number of rooms offered......so your use of online per night room rates is not of use......because it fails to take into account the fact that not all rooms sell every night and not all rooms sell for those rack rates every night one would have to know the full story of the over all market in the Little Aplle to make a meaningful comparison.....just because that single hotle is "booming" in your words does not mean that the other hotels in that market are enjoying the same success or that the facility that you mentioned did not draw market share away from existing properties to their detriment.....without the full picture fo the overall market that is not a good comparison a better comparison would be what is mentioned in the article where Frisco opened a convention center and hotel and their earnings per night at surrounding hotels dropped 10 dollars per night.....again this is not the rate charger per night with more nights sold....the article states that is EARNINGS per room dropping an average of $10 per night....so that is LOSING money VS what was being made before.....sure the actual hotel attached to the convention center might be doing better than that, but the existing hotels in the area (probably paid for and run with private dollars) are losing earnings on a per room basis because on the nights that new facility is not drawing in NEW business that new facility is competiting with existing hotels for existing business and you are 100% flat wrong that "development drives development"........that kind of thinking is why this country is going broke, strip centers are half full, Las Vegas is broke with half built and unfinished casinos and hotels littering the area, malls are half empty across the USA, convention centers across the USA are struggling to break even and being subsidized by tax payers, dallas is fulled with unsold over priced condos downtown, uptown, in Victory, and everywhere else, California and Florida are littered with forclosures, Miami is littered with empty condo buildings and on and on.....because people are dumb enough to believe that if you just build the same crap as everywhere else without taking into account any of the actual real world market factors and demand that it will just "happen" because "it" has been built when the reality is even if what has been built new is itself a success that success often comes on the backs of many other existing businesses and when those close it has a worse effect on the overall area than if the new had never been built.......because nothing drives away business like failure and blight and loss of revenues and tax dollars associated with the former businesses that closed you also seem to miss where I quoted the entire revpar for downtown AND uptown dallas combined which includes all the properties in those areas.....and it was 68 dollars and change which is well below what the Denton property achieve and surely you are not ignorant enough to try and say there are not rathole hotels in downtown and uptown dallas......well actually YOU might be that ignorant, but that is one of the flaws inherent in trying to pick and choose small parts of an overall agruement so as to "win that point" while losing the overall discussion....not that you had much hope anyway and also while it is true I listed high end properties for the most part......in your failed attempt to win even a single point you miss out on the concept that I am quoting revpar for HIGH END properties in a huge market with a large convention and business presence......and yet those single property revpars for HIGH END and very high end properties next to and very close to major convention facilities and business centers.....are still not close to being as high as what the denton property hopes to achieve which is $145 per room......which means the Denton property is using stupid high numbers they will never achieve for an Embassy Suites level property next to a small convention center in an outlying market with many many similar and better located facilities litterng the metroplex currently so not only did you fail on your single point (much less the over all discussion) your single point is easily refuted with the overall downtown and uptown revpar number I quoted and is is also easily refuted when it is shown that even HIGH END and very high end properties in a much larger market are not making near the revpar that the Denton property hopes to pull in so fail and fail......you are getting good at failing....very good....you should open up a school of failed and flawed single point logic...you have a PhD in it and a bright future again you present the perfect example of why there is so much vacant space, so many failed convention centers in the USA, so many failed hotels, so many failed malls, and so many failed big box stores sitting vacant how is an owner suppose to renovate a hotel that is less than three years old and why would they.....much less three of them especially when they are new and the busineess does not warrant it you are trying to accuse three hotel owners with brand new mid level or higher properties that are not amking money of being "stagnant" when the reality is they are the exact opposite of that....THEY BUILT THREE NEW HOTELS.....they made the damn investment in hotels that are national chain properties......what type of person calls that being stagnant?.....what are they suppose to renovate the hotels every year.....every 6 months......are they suppose to ignore the fact that convbention facilities all over the metromess in better locations with more amenities are not making a profit and build one anyway with their own money.....so they can go broke....what a horrible horrible point these people MADE THE INVESTMENT even when at least one of them knew the market was already going down fast because he had already spent so much time and money that it would have been worse to walk away.....and now your answer to that market reality is add more hotel rooms and they should renovate or invest more money.......you must be a wonderful business person and investor......for those wishing to lose a great deal of money then you go on to say that there are tons of things going on in Denton right now.....EXACTLY.....and when the new convention center opens.....the places that USED TO GET THE BUSINESS......will now lose that business to the new convention center......that is not building new business that is canabilizing business from existing businesses......which is why the USA hospitality, restaurant, retail, and property development business is a total disaster......because one thing canabilizes business from another and people like you respond with "well invest more and renovate"........yea brilliant idea ignore the fact that the actual business you are going after is in decline be it restaurant diners, the convention business, big box retailers, casino gamblers, high price condo buyers......ignore that all those clients are tapped out or having their needs more than met....just go out there and renovate or build bigger or newer and steal that business right back....then it can be the other guy that is "stagnant" with a 2 or 3 year ld hotel or convention center or strip shop or mall or casino that can eat shit....except over time it gets to the point that everyone has "new" and everyone has the sam amenities and everyone has the same size facilities.....and then you ALL eat shit because there is simply too many comparable things competiting for the same total overall business 400 new restaurants built yesterday with big name chefs running them will all go broke if they are in the market for 400 total diners.....that is just a simple fact....it does not matter if they all renovate and expand every day.....because at the end of the day only a dolt thinks that renovating and expanding and building new service industry things creates a new market and more overall business I gu ess you think the answer for Golden Triangle is they need to build a new mall next door and then renovate the old one because two empty malls next to each oter has better economies of scale than one empty mall....or maybe there needs to be a Foleys, Jc Pennies, Dillards, Sears, Walmart, Nordstroms, Lord and Taylors. Palias Royal, Bealls, Kohls in both of them......then all the same can be at Razor Ranch...then all those same brands and the companies that they sell can have outlets up the road a bit further at the outlet mall!!!! maybe have a convention center up there too.....and if any of them start to fail or struggle the answer is piss on them they should renovate or build bigger or add more stores!!! and as for REVPAR....it is just that REVENUE PER AVAILABLE ROOM TO THE HOTEL......priceline, orbits.....none of that matters....REVPAR is the revenue per available room per night for the hotel.....that includes occupancy rates.....it takes into account fees paid to outside booking companies, it takes into account rack rate VS discounted rate.....it is the REVENUE PER ROOM....the actual money coming into the hotel that they can use to pay their bills....it is THE industry standard for calculating the profit and loss on a per roombasis of a hotel........because it takes into account occupancy, number of rooms, discounts, big nights when bookings allow for higher rates.....and nights when the hotel is empty......that is whay that number has meaning.......because it shows just what dollar amount each room produces after all the other BS is cleared out of the way and again.....TMS already exist.....the convention center and 350 new rooms will not bring more business because of the race way......the raceway already exist.....that is what is called EXISTING BUSINESS.....weddings already exist.....that is called EXISTING BUSINESS.......because someone chooses one property over another for their Denton wedding does not mean that is new business....that just means that an existing business lost out to a new business....that is not new business....that is canabilizing existing business....the inability to understand that very simple concept is why Vegas has half empty casinos and shells or partially completed casinios littering the place......and that is why casino companies all over the USA have property after property going broke in various crappy locations and then they get refinanced, renovated or they expand.....and the one next door closes down....then gets a tax break, refinances, renovates.....and then both of those properties are losing money because they can't afford to renovate because someone with a clue finally did the math and realized they were losing money and refused to loan any more money.....and then you have two crappy, half filled, declining casino crap holes going broke....and then it gets all the worse when some other group of idiots in some other are of the USA says "lets get in on that action" and they build new, go broke, get refinanced, start hiring only part time instead of full time to aviod paying benefits, and you have yet another crap hole casino filled with loser service, declining revenues, paying less and less taxes and asking for more tax breaks, delivering fewer and fewer poor quality jobs....and repeat....but of course every new pile of crap with nothing to offer is "not going after that market" or think of all the weddings we can host at our new casino......then all the other places in town go broke because the casino, convention center, new condos or whatever poorly planeed idea has sucked away all the existing business without creating any of the new business they promised the same failed ideas over and over until it all crashes and you have places like Razor Ranch with torn up land sitting around blowing dirt all over the place, half fllled outlet malls littering the countryside, convention centers running at a loss, casinos going borke time and again or stopping half complete and sitting there rotting, empty big box stores all over the place, half filled hotels, empty chain store restaurant shells, condo shells sitting empty, housing developments sitting half completed filled with half build or vacant houses rotting but yea if we just renovated all of that and put some turn polish on all of that.....think of all the new business it would generate.....we can have a whole country producing nothing but turd polishing things and hanging out at the casino, shopping at the mall, eating at chain restaurants, before going home to out over priced hip new condo before we get up to go to work turn polishing all of that stuff all over again you should run for president with that concept sadly you would get at least 55% of the vote especially if you told people that someone else was going to pay for it all or that you would not be the one losing the "stagnant" guy with the brand new property across the way would be the loser...but hey he has not renovated or expanded in the last year so screw him right!!!

thank you for at least taking the time to read and try and understand http://www.dentonrc.com/local-news/local-news-headlines/20120721-hoteliers-warn-market-glutted.ece but as the article mentions all three of those properties are under 3 years old and they are all major chain properties with at least a very slight upscale amenity level over say a Motel 6 or a Super 8 also as the article states the new hotel and convention center is projecting $145 per night which is $20 dollars over what the Gaylord can charge and the Gaylord is charging over 2X the average revpar of the downtown and uptown dallas hotels and I agree there is a difference between an Embassy Suits and a Gaylord or similar facility, but the Embassy Suites will be the facility that will be competiting for the business that the Hiltons and all the other major chain hotels surrounding the DFW airport are competiting for.....and that is the business of sales groups for major national companies that have monthly or bi-monthly sales meetings where 20-100 people fly in, stay a night or two, meet for 9-10 hours per day and rarely if ever leave the property if at all.....meals are catered in the conference rooms or dining is in the hotel restaurant there is very little convention business that is looking for a 350 room facility, 25+ miles from a major airport with few if any amenities located on site or within walking distance or an easy drive away especially with the still limited service that a traditional Embassy Suites or similar property would offer on site there is simply nothing to attract sales meetings or the like that are the life blood of a 350 room property away from the numerous similar sized and even larger properties that surround DFW currently and there is simply nothing attractive about a 350 room property with an Embassy Suites level property with no surrounding amenities within easy driving or walking distance to attract a larger convnetion that will have spillover to other Denton properties when it brings in that new business so the Denton property will not be attractive over many existing options for smaller meetings or even smaller conventions and it will not be attractive to larger conventions.....and for the price desired of $145 a night there is no way it will be financially competitive with the existing options even if it had all the location and amenities that those existing options offer while Denton may have some crappy hotels and that may be an issue the three owners of 3 year old or less mid-level national chain properties making $55 per room night sold and having trouble paying their mortgage would disagree the answer is to open 350 new rooms that will be at the same level of amenities as their properties or only slightly higher even with a convention center attached....because they know that convention center will not bring in enough business over the period of a year to make up for the rooms lost when that convention center is bringing in no new business and it is competiting with their three new hotels...and when you add in the new hotel projects $145 per night.....there will either be an issue of the hotel not making their revenue, or they will drastically lower those rates and pull business from existing hotels.....and they will be doing so with the aid of the draw of a convention center funded with room taxes on the backs of those privately funded hotels

the Gaylord Texan is just one of the multitude of convention facilities that a Denton convention center would compete with in the metroplex one is either a fool or just clueless if they believe that being close to a major airport is not a factor for many conventions or even large business meetings.....half of the hotels surrounding DFW make their money by hosting small conventions and meetings that are drawn to them and the DFW area because there is a major airport with flights from around the USA and the world and there are a large number of hotels with facilities set up so they can fly in, host a meeting in a day or two and then fly right back out often without having to rent cars or even leave the facility.....to ignore this fact is to just be clueless or a dupe....I believe you are both and again the Gaylord was just used as an example because it was one of the few hotels that was charging a rate that would come clsoe to the rate that Denton hotels would need to charge to get a profit from convention business coming to Denton and to offset the fact that on nights that Denton is not hosting a convention there will be 350 additional hotel rooms competiting with the existing hotels.....something you either can't understand or can't refute or both if there are 350 new hotel rooms in Denton that means that for 365 nights per year there are 350 new hotel rooms competiting with the existing hotels for business....for that not to be the case those 350 hotel rooms would either need to sit empty every night there is not a convention while the other existing hotels bring in the same business as before with regular Denton hotel guest or those 350 new hotel rooms need to generate their own new business for each room they sell every night they sell a room...and since the existance of a new hotel room does not in fact generate any new business they will suck business away from existing hotels on nights when there is not a convention in town it is simple math (probably why you lack the ability to grasp it) Denton has X number of hotel rooms now....Denton has Y number of people that stay in Denton hotels now.....according to the article Denton hotels average $55 per night per room sold so for a new hotel to not suck away business from existing hotels or to lower the room rates per room night (or both) that hotel needs to find a way to generate business that is equal to the number of rooms they sell each night or they need to find a way to generate the type of demand that increases the room rates per night.....be it 10 rooms sold or all 350 rooms....if they can't do this then they are canabilizing existing hotels and their business so if the convention center has a convention or otherwise finds a way to generate new hotel stays in Denton for 150 nights per year for whatever number of rooms it sells .....that means for the other 215 nights a year it either needs to be empty or it needs to generate enough business on those 150 nights when it generates new business to throw enough business to the existing hotels to make up for the rooms it sells on the 215 nights per year when it is not generating it's own business or to raise the average room rate high enough to make up for the lost business on the other 215 nights per year when it is competiting for existing business this is just simple logic, business, and fact and of course you can't refute that which is why you try and go with personal insults which to anyone with an ounce of brain matter and that can understand simple facts makes you look like a fool

1. your mom made me breakfast this morning 2. Gaylord is not an "area" it is a hotel complex....Grapevine is the "area" and you can argue all you wish about Grapevine Vs Denton, but it is a fact that Grapevine is much closer to DFW and it is simply a FACT that this will matter to convention planners because again conventions are places where people come to conduct BUSINESS and that does not mean driving 30 miles away from the major airport to the convention site.......nor does it mean having to go longer distances to get decent food options or to do even simple things like shop real quick the failed Razor Ranch, Golden Triangle Mall, and all the same chain eating estblishments may be impressive to you in Denton and an attraction, but I am 100% positive that people coming in from out of town would just assume have many more chain restaurants to choose from, a convention property with many more options on site, and the many other shopping options (even if chain stores) that Grapevine offers VS what Denton offers......mecause more options is always more options period and when they are as close or closer that is just more attractive 3. your "point" so far was not even close to addrsssing the fact that the new convention center will need to generate the amount of business to cover itself and it will need to generate enough business to cover all the other nights when it will just be 350 hotel rooms competing with all the existing hotels in Denton for the same number of guest that would stay in Denton without a convention center....that or it will have to be content sitting empty or it will be sucking business away from existing properties

of course you are not going to point out the flaws.....because you are too ignorant and immature to even attempt to try....instead you are going to try and make a personal insult to someone that already knows you are a fool and void of intelligence or ability to reason or present a factual case for anything other than your own stupidity

"thousands more" people is pretty meaningless in the overall picture the convention center is being proposed with a 250 room full service hotel and an additional 100 room hotel for 350 rooms total so "thousands" more people would fill those 350 rooms a few nights per year while the rest of the year those 350 rooms compete with every other hotel out there for the usual number of hotel stays in Denton with 365 nights in a year even if that facility was able to attract 700 guests per hight for 100 nights a year that still means there are 265 other nights per year when those 350 beds are competing with every other hotel in town for guest hotels don't always charge the same rate per night especially when they know they are going to fill up, but it seems to be a stretch that a new convention center in Denton will attract 70,000 guest nights (700 guest X 100 nights) per year especially ones that would be willing to pay double the $55 per night that the article states Denton hotels are averaging per night and even if they were able to get 700 guest per night 100 nights in a year that is still 265 nights per year when that facility will be knocking down the average $55 per room rate because it will be there with 350 rooms competing for the same business so really the facility will need to attract probably 700 guest per night times 182.5 nights and those guest will need to be willing to pay at least double the $55 dollar average rate they will need to be willing to pay probably $120 per night or more to equalize the fact that for the remaining 182.5 nights per year those 350 beds will be knocking down the average $55 dollar room rate so this convention center will need to attract 127,750 guest nights per year (700 guest X 182.5 nights) willing to pay $120 per night at least to make it a break even deal for the other hotels in town that would be about 60 conventions per year with guest staying 3 nights average so the facility would need to attract on average more than one (some weeks more than one) 700 person convention per week with guest staying an average of 3 nights per convention per person with top level hotels in many areas of dallas and the metromess right now averaging under $120 per night it will be difficult for Denton to be competitive with that to attract that massive number of conventions the new Omni dallas had a May revpar of 94.55 Hyatt Regency $50.78 so less than Denton hotels average per night (in 2011 it was $84.64) Fairmont $88.98 down from $91.52 in 2011 Adolphus $58.86 down from $77.31 in 2011 Magnolia $65.21 down from $67.08 in 2011 Sheraton $53.88 down from $56.14 in 2011 total for downtown/uptown hotels $67.22 in May of 2012 down from $68.54 in May of 2011 Gaylord Texan 1511 rooms 125.48 in May of 2012 up from $121.89 in May of 2011 so in 2011 the Gaylord with over 4X more hotel rooms, a much larger convention space, a well known brand backing it, in a much more attractive location averaged just under what Denton hotles would need to average per night (on convention nights) and in 2012 it averaged just over and that is a property that is located much closer to the major airport, it has many more amenities on site, it can hold over 4X what the Denton convention center hotels can hold on site, Grapevine has many more attractions locally and "near local" than Denton, it is owned by a major brand that has a rotation of conventions in place for their properties, and it has much more on site and in walking distance than the denton facility will which is another issue with this Denton Convention center......it will be next to nothing unless you consider that average conventin visitors will want to stare at an empty football stadium for 359 nights per year, or they will want to go walk around a university they probably have zero connection to.......the closest food is fast food and it is a stretch that people will want to walk over tog et that which means it is a car trip to get anything to eat off the property......which really means it would be just about as attractive to have just a convention center that visitors can drive up to from an off site hotel since the vast majoirty of them will have to go off site to do anything at all besides eat at the restaurant the hotel might offer which gets back to why this facility will not be competitive with the numerous other existing facilities in the metromess....those facilities are located closer to the major airports, they already have better amenities on site or within easy walking or driving distance, they have many more local attractions for guest either on site, within walking distance, or an easy drive away.....they are still located closer to the other major attractions in the DFW area even if those attractions are not right close to the facility....they are cheaper per night.....they can hold as many or more guest right in a single hotel....and they are a "known" so that those coming to town already know what is near by to do and see and eat and visit many people coming for conventions do have "free time" but often that free time is not time to just go exploring and trying to find something to do, somewhere to eat, and seeing "what is new" it is time to hit the "known" from last year where they know how long the wait will be, how long it takes to "do something", how long it takes to get there and back, and what to expect.....they are not in the mood for and do not have time for surprises or the unexpected.....that is why major and minor conventions go to the same place or places year in and year out....that is why the Gaylord and similar companies can get a rotation of conventions to their properties.....guest know exactly what to expect on site and after the first time there they know what to expect at each of the various locations off site for the most part there is little if any chance this facility with 350 hotel rooms will attract enough guest nights, willing to pay a high enough price, to make up for the remainign guest nights when it will not be attracting guest and instead will just be 350 hotel rooms competiting with the existing hotels already in denton for guest and knocking the revpar down even lower for everyone one or two large conventions and a few other scattered ones here and there will not come close to doing that just to hold the same this facility would need to attract 350 guest every convention it holds and then it would need to be EMPTY every night that it is not attracting a new convention (and convention guest) so the remaining hotels keep their existing business....or it would need to settle for being less than full each convention and then still being EMPTY each night there is not a convention in town so as to not suck guest away from existing facilities anything less than that and it is sucking business away from existing hotels and it is doing so with money from taxes charged on the guest of those existing facilities

this thread started by someone that is disgusting enough to accuse Mack Brown of being the type that would cover up the sandusky incident if it happened at UT or making cracks about the new AD at SMU looking like a pedophile clearly he doesn't understand what it means to be lower class than those he takes shots at

he is really really really bad at his job and he is too stupid to even know it.....I doubt he is respected in the legislature (and it shows) and basically he is a shill for dallas proper and he waste a great deal of the Denton campus and students resources in dallas proper on ideas that have not only been called a bad idea when they were conceived they have now proven to be failed ideas....and just as damaging he has wasted a lot of political capital on those failed ideas

http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/government-employee-salaries/search/?q=chancellor&x=0&y=0 he makes $508,877 per year and he is the second highest paid chancellor of any university system in Texas and unT is the smallest system in the state and Dr. Khator serves as chancellor of the UH System and the President of the main campus.....and she has out performed lee by about a million miles and Kent Hance has given Texas Tech more in donations since he took the job than all of his pay combined and that does not count donations he made before he took the job TWU does not really consider themselves a system anymore, but they did when Dr. Stuart took the job so she still has the dual titles and they do have multiple locations that offer full degrees TAMU-College station alone is larger than the unT system and Tech the next smallest system is 3,600+ students larger when you count all their system components lee is quite the bargin!! he has done great things though....there is the failed dallas campus, the inability to get a law school open in 6+ years, the pharmacy program with no ties to the "flagship" and specific entrance requirements that makes it easy for potential students to never set foot in Denton for any of the 6 years of course work, the inability to get the M.D. program going, the huge increase in endowment, the wonderful performance in "tier 1" metrics, the lack of ability to meet research goals even one year into the various plans, the turn over in the presidents office, the consolidation of system functions in dallas for no real reason (other than the desire to funnel more system resources into failed dallas economic projects), watching TAMU make the move on the law school in Fort Worth and probably being caught flat footed and surprised, the hiring of his buddy to fund raise that left in less than 9 months.....but hey he has the "big time dallas money connections" there is the stadium though!