SMU2006

Swing and a miss on Buzz, but that's what happens sometimes when you go elephant hunting in college athletics. Also, I don't see as how this reflects negatively on SMU in any way. If anything it shows that we are ready and willing to make the financial commitment to play with the best in the country. Buzz got what he wanted out of the SMU negotations (i.e. raise and extension) so it was well played by his camp. However, with the kind of $$$ we are throwing out there we will net a quality coach. The 40M renovation to Moody and the 12M Crum Practice Center already on campus are two facilities upgrades that allow SMU to more than hold its own in the Big East. Tough luck on Buzz but this is a guy who turned down opportunities at A&M and OU. On to the next candidate now.

Saw this thread while I was looking through your football forum to see how things were shaping up regarding the MWC-CUSA Alliance. Hope everything works out for everyone involved. I don't post here often but as the husband of a UNT grad I genuinely hope the Mean Green find themselves in a better situation with more competitive and natural rivals than in the current Sun Belt. That said, I happen to know quite a bit about the Buzz Williams situation as I am a Mustang Club member and correspond regularly with one of the real heavy hitters or as Orsini calls them the Circle of Champions. Essentially this is a group of roughly 25 individuals who were responsible for raising the cash to hire June Jones. He says there is absolutely no way Marquette will match what SMU is throwing out there. I've seen 2.6 to 2.7M as a number but he says its MUCH higher than that. David Miller and Gerald Ford (two billionaire SMU alums) are the ones who are personally willing to pay Williams in excess of 3.5M over six years. This would make him one of the ten highest paid coaches in college basketball. In addition, they are willing to allow Williams and his staff access to private jets throughtout the recruiting cylces AND charter planes for all games. Its really shameful that SMU doesn't already charter planes for the team, but certainly as a Big East program we can't be seen as cheap or unwilling to commit the needed infrastructure that all other Big East programs already have in place. There have been numerous reports that Buzz and the new AD (Larry Williams) do not see eye on eye at all and have butted heads in the last several months. In addition, the AD has already reached out to high level Marquette boosters informing them that Buzz is talking to SMU and yes it is serious. Also, Buzz is a native of North Texas and is open to the idea of returning home. That's the sunshine aspect of the pursuit. However, there are obvious issues with taking over SMU basketball. Marquette is an established brand that he has elevated to Top 20 status. He is currently well compensated at roughly 2M. He is fresh off a Sweet Sixteen appearance (his third as their head coach) and there is no reason to expect any huge dropoff in the next few years. Also, my guy tells me that Buzz and his wife are happy in Milwaukee. Buzz is a very devout Catholic and enjoys working at a private Jesuit institution. Would he be willing to take over a program that is so far down? That remains the question. However my source said that there is no question Buzz is listening and is blown away by the financial commitment SMU is willing to make. Another factor in the negotations is the 40M renovation to Moody Coliseum that will modernize and make much better use of the current facility. If you've ever been there its a truly great venue for college hoops, but its in need of a serious facelift and thanks to the 20M donation by David Miller and another 20M from the Moody Foundation that facelift will commence construction this year and be completed in time for Big East conference play in 2013. IMO, its a 50-50 shot that we land Buzz. I know that SMU wants the hire made by Final Four weekend at the latest so we should know here in the next few days. If I hear anything else I'll pass it along.

Looks like a settlement is going to happen b/w WVU and the Big East in the next couple of days. SMU has already said they'd be willing to pay whatever it took to leave CUSA a year early. Boise is already on the record as saying they can't leave the MWC until 2013. Some believe that all CUSA teams may be able to leave in 2012 as well. http://www.wvmetronews.com/wvu.cfm?func=displayfullstory&storyid=50855 From what I've gathered on a few CUSA/MWC boards is that the merger talk may be put on the backburner and the creation of a completely new conference is starting to pick up steam. Should be interesting to see what direction this thing goes.

And no, a CUSA-Sun Belt merger would be viewed as a disaster by CUSA. MWC still has some decent programs (Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii). Geographically I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see UTEP move to the MWC. That would also open up another spot for UNT to fit into CUSA.

Even after the defections, CUSA is an infinitely better place for UNT than the Sun Belt. The casual fan is more inclined to see a game with Southern Miss, Tulsa, and Rice than anybody in the Sun Belt. From an on-field perspective, there is no question CUSA is substantially weakened. But there is still enough there to make a decent non-BCS conference if the right pieces are added: CUSA West - UTEP, Rice, UT-San Antonio, North Texas, Tulsa CUSA East - La Tech, Tulane, UAB, Marshall, East Carolina I think that is a dream scenario for UNT. Everyone in the division would be within driving distance (outside of UTEP unless you are just a glutton for punishment) and would be a better draw at the gate than anyone currently in the Sun Belt.

Memphis has some mega-huge boosters that are highly influential (CEO of FedEx) and the basketball program is nationally relevant. The word on most of the Big East message boards is that adding Memphis was done in attempt to quell the fire about Cincinnati and Louisville leaving the conference. Pitino openly promoted adding Memphis long before there was talk of adding Houston, SMU, Navy, San Diego State, and Boise State. Memphis can turn their football program around if Fuentes (former TCU offensive coordinator) can recruit some local talent. Basketball-wise, while not what they were under Calipari, are still a solid addition to the conference. I'm not thrilled about adding Memphis but if it helps in any way to keep Cincy and UL in line I'm all for it.

CUSA>>>>>>>>>>>Sun Belt. While I agree w/ you than the Sun Belt has gotten marginally better over the last few years, there are still some pretty solid programs in CUSA. Southern Miss, ECU, Tulsa, and Marshall have all had some pretty good success in recent years that dwarf anything that any member of the Sun Belt has accomplished. There are some bottom feeders (Rice, Tulane, UTEP, UAB) but every conference has a few of those. I think the next logical move for CUSA is to expand. Add La Tech, UNT, and UT-San Antonio now. La Tech is a program on the rise, UNT has committed itself financially to being competitive in CUSA, and UT-San Antonio is a mega wildcard in a huge market. They're worth the risk for CUSA to maintain a presence in Texas. After that, jettison UTEP to the MWC. So the end result is the following? MWC - Hawaii, Colorado State, Fresno State, Wyoming, New Mexico, Nevada, UNLV, UTEP, Utah State, Air Force (could bolt for Big East) CUSA - Tulsa, Rice, UNT, Tulane, UAB, Southern Miss, East Carolina, La Tech, UT-San Antonio, Marshall Not sure if I left anyone out but that is a solid "merger" between the two conferences. CUSA keeps a foothold in Texas with Rice, UNT, and UT-San Antonio and adds a rising program that is regionally friendly in La Tech. UNT would have several opponents within a reasonable driving distance that would interest the casual fan a hell of a lot more than UL-Lafayette, Western Kentucky, South Alabama, etc. The real hiccup is trying to convince CUSA to be BOLD. So far that hasn't been their strong suit.

I agree that SMU will need to keep our Texas-based nonconference schedule intact for attendance/recruiting/budget/etc. However, one of the things that needs to be considered is the looming TV deal that the Big East will get here in the next year. Depending on who you talk to the annual share per school from that TV deal will be anywhere from 5-15M per school. That is terrific news for a school like SMU that runs a deficit every year in athletics. Also, I'm excited about road games at San Diego State, Boise State, Cincinnati, Louisville, Rutgers, and South Florida. Those will be fun trips. In the next few years we have non-conference games with TCU, Texas Tech, A&M, Baylor, and UNT. I'd love for there to be some kind of consistent rotation of these schools. I've even heard whispers that A&M and SMU are considering a yearly matchup with the Aggies headed to the SEC. We will see how that actually plays out but I'd love to have A&M on the schedule every year. I'm stunned that they're actually going to play us at Ford next year. That'll be a terrific atmosphere.

Interesting and informative responses by most. Glad I brought it up. As far as being "proud" that half our students are non-Texans I wouldn't say that it is a point of pride. If you look at private schools around the country they all have relatively large out of state student populations. For SMU, it's about having a national presence. I also think that meeting and interacting with people from around the country in college is a good thing. I can certainly see where some of the bitterness towards SMU is coming from now. I won't post too much on here unless its regarding conference realignment. I hope UNT can position itself well to move up in the coming years. BTW, to the guy who thinks we will buy our way out of the UNT series, I highly doubt we do that. Its an easy travel game with low costs and we will need a few more games in the state of Texas once we head to the Big East. Houston will be our only conference mate in-state.

All About UNT, There seem to be several posters on PF that kind of have a running joke with the "blackballing of UNT" stuff which now makes sense to me. Again, really wasn't aware of what went down with the SWC stuff in the 70's. I can see the picture a little clearer from the UNT perspective certainly. I just never understood why the hate for SMU and not TCU. There are tools on PF just like there are tools here. I'd like to think that they both don't represent the vast majority of supporters for either school.

I don't know that I care so much as it was just kind of surprising. As I said I just started lurking here once the Chase Walling to SMU stuff started heating up. In reading a lot of the comments on threads about him I was taken aback by some of the comments about SMU since there really is no rivalry (recently at least). Thanks to several of the posters on this thread I can see where some of you are coming from, but I guess I still don't understand why TCU gets a pass. Its OK. Like I said in a previous post, bitterness and hate are what make college athletics fun. To those that were treated rudely by the SMU douchers with the "Cash Beats Trash" sign, take solace in knowing you're a better person than them. Jackasses are everywhere and can take every form. Its my hope that when UNT comes to the Hilltop in a few years that SMU fans will be welcoming, friendly, and engaging. I know I will. Just so you guys know it sounds like Chase really struggled with his decision not to honor his commitment to UNT. He mentioned several times in interviews on PonyPride that he really had a great relationship with the coaches at UNT and the SMU offer kind of came out of nowhere. Said the hardest thing he had to do in the entire recruiting process was calling the coaches at UNT to inform them he was headed to SMU.

Interesting stuff. I really wasn't aware of all the political machinations back in the 70's. If it is any consolation, SMU can be largely blamed for the downfall of the SWC and thus being relegated to the little kids table when the league disbanded in the mid 90's. The Death Penalty really was the end for the SWC. Arkansas already had one foot out the door and when they finally did leave the floodgates opened. In all honesty, knowing what I know about the Death Penalty and how the university reacted afterwards, I'm shocked we have athletics at SMU. The school essentially tried to destroy athletics in the wake of the scandal with recruiting restrictions and alienating anyone who had anything to do with the Pony Express days. I think when it comes to bad blood over the SWC stuff, that really should be dead and buried. Its like some SMU fans I know that blame the Death Penalty for the subsequent 25 years of losing. Guess what? SMU deserved the Death Penalty. What happened in the years following it can easily be called a just punishment for the crime. But time heals all wounds. SMU decided to stop using it as a crutch for why it couldn't win. Once the university administration gave the athletic department the ability to win, we have done some pretty special things here in the last few years. Being invited to a BCS conference would've been beyond my wildest dreams just a few years back. Now its a reality. It certainly sounds like SMU was active in UNT not being invited to the SWC, but can you say there were not other forces at play as well? Was SMU alone in this vendetta? I think we all like to have a convenient "out" for why things went the way they did. There are elements of truth to it, but in reality there were probably a lot more influencing factors as play than simply SMU keeping UNT out.

Also, no one has really addressed why UNT fans seem to embrace TCU while they cuss SMU. Walk around that campus and tell me there aren't just as many BMW's and kids spending daddy's money. TCU is very similar to SMU in that regard. If its a Dallas-Fort Worth thing I can get that. But don't act like TCU and TCU alums don't have their fair share of silver spooners too.

Green Mean, I agree to a certain extent that the college rankings shouldn't be the "end all be all" when it comes to the overall rank of a university. There are far too many variables to consider and the fact that these rankings hold as much weight as they do is a bit comical. However, its undeniable that these rankings DO impact what sort of potential applicants a particular university will attract. Every university works its ass off to make sure they are putting themselves in the best possible light for these annual rankings because right or wrong, prospective students/parents care about that sort of stuff. College is about so much more thank rankings, but in the arms race that is university academia, it is a highly coveted commodity.

LOL @ Skilling comment.

Not having baseball is about as significant as not having women's bowling when it comes to realignment. Trust me that will not be the reason should UNT get left out. I'd say that UNT is certainly in the mix. It just depends on how many teams CUSA wants to add (if any). La Tech, UTSA, Texas State, UNT, Arkansas State, FIU, FAU, UL-Lafayette are all possibilities. I'm sure the AD at UNT has his ear to the ground on this situation.

SHOSS, Maybe its a message board thing then? I've been on ponyfans for several years and yeah there are those that poke fun at UNT, but I stick to the SMU Rivals site. Posters are much more mature and the information is obviously a lot better.

I think this is an opportunity for UNT to really push for CUSA. Lots of holes to fill in that conference now. Location, new stadium, large student body population, and budget make UNT a pretty attractive choice. Hope it works out that way!

fouts, I don't presume to speak on your personal experience with SMU law/business grads but to say that both of those entities are not exceptional contradicts almost every college publication out there. I agree there tends to be a bias in the ranking system, but the metrics by which they are measured are about as close to accurate as we can get. Whether its US News, Forbes, Princeton Review, etc... All of them have both the law school and business school among the very best in the country. Also, if anything SMU is fighting many of those built-in "East Coast" biases. Since 2004, SMU has risen from roughtly #100 on the US News & World Report to as high as #56 in the 2010 edition of the rankings. That is a significant improvement that shouldn't be ignored. Also, SMU has more billionaires on the Board of Trustees (six) than any non Ivy League school in the country. I agree with you however. SMU isn't and will never be Harvard. That said, there is no reason SMU can't be in that next tier of elite privates like Duke, Vanderbilt, Rice, and USC. One of the really interesting new initiatives at SMU is requiring undergrads to live on-campus for at a minimum of two years. The goal is by 2020 for that to be bumped up to a third year. This is something SMU has been slow to address due to the relatively small size of the campus. The heightened visibility of the Bush Library will also be a feather in the cap of the university moving forward. Regardless of how one feels about his politics, having the George W. Bush Presidential Library is a wonderful asset for the university. I'm optimistic about where SMU is headed both academically and on the athletic field. The Big East will provide us a level of visibility that we need on the east coast. As of last year, over half of the incoming freshmen were not from Texas. I think the goal is for there to be a 50-50 balance between Texans/out of state students. As the average GPA and SAT scores rise, SMU will continue to move up the rankings. Its a lofty goal, but certainly not impossible for SMU to be a Top 30 national institution in the next 20 years.

Wow. Taking shots at my degree? Really? I work for one of the best commercial appraisal firms in the country. Account Manager is a bulsh title for sales douches. Don't think there is any need for that. And to the guy who doesn't think SMU has a beautiful campus I think you might be trying to convince yourself of that. I've seen Vanderbilt, Emory, Stanford, UCLA, Duke, and many of the other top institutions in the country. SMU stands right up there with them from an aesthetic perspective. It certainly is no slouch in that department. To the others thanks for the responses. I can see where some of you are coming from. I graduated in 2006 so I don't know a lot about the backstory of the SWC stuff. I also agree that I bet most of the hatred is from the older alums.

First off, I'm an SMU alum and this is not a flame thread. My wife is a UNT alum and I've been to the campus several times. I have several friends and family members that have attended UNT and they all have nothing but positive things to say about their experiences in Denton. That said, I started lurking this board around the time that SMU started recruiting Chase Walling and was stunned by the hatred of SMU. I guess the real question is why? We hardly ever play each other in any sport and have absolutely no rivalry whatsoever. I could understand if there was any sort of consistent on-field or on-court rivalry, but that clearly doesn't exist. So I really wonder why so many of you are so consumed with what's going on at SMU. Also, why the hatred for SMU and not TCU. I can understand people that think SMU is a bit of a "pink polo" culture, but have you ever stepped foot on the campus at TCU? It's the EXACT same kind of thing. Yes J.Crew makes purple shirts too only at TCU they throw on a pair of cowboy boots so I guess that makes it okay. Both are small, private schools that have a relatively large student population that come from wealthy families. However, it seems like most UNT fans on this board like TCU and hate SMU. Is this a Dallas-Fort Worth thing? I have a ton of respect for TCU, but be honest. They have their fair share of country club alums just like SMU. For the record, I wish UNT all the best. The new stadium is a real gem and I look forward to making a trip out there in a few years to see the Ponies play. I also look forward to welcoming any of you when you make the return trip to the Hilltop. My family has a tent on The Boulevard and we never turn any fans away regardless of affiliation. I think UNT is on the right track with the new coaching staff and has a chance to vastly improve their lot in conference affiliation here in a few years if you can have a little more success on the field. CUSA was good to us at SMU. It was a marked step up from the WAC days and it provided us the platform to get the attention of the Big East. I would be very happy to see UNT in CUSA as I think they provide a real value to the conference. I also understand hate is what makes college sports great so I take it all with a grain of salt. But I bet if some of you took the time to head over to SMU and see it for what it truly is the stereotypes of the past would melt away. SMU is a top 50 national institution with a 1.3B endowment, a presidential library, a top twenty business school, a top fifty law school, a member of a BCS conference, and has one of the most beautiful campus settings in the entire country. Are there some kids there that are on a four year vacation with daddy's money? You bet. They exist. Guess what? There are some of the same type kids at UNT and every other campus in America. SMU is a much different place in 2012 than it was in 1990. I was the son of two public school teachers in East Texas that was fortunate enough to attend SMU and met several kids at SMU who come from similar backgrounds. Not all of us were born with a silver spoon in our mouths. Lastly, good luck with everything in the future. Again, I think UNT is headed in the right direction and I'm pulling for the Mean Green in every game that doesn't involve the Ponies. Also don't give up on the conference realignment scenarios. Its way too early for that. That story isn't written yet. With a little luck I think UNT will find itself in a very competitive league that dwarfs the Sun Belt. I'll be sure to post here if there are any rumors that invovle UNT in the CUSA-MWC merger talks. Best to all.