GrayEagle

Same thing that I expected to find Bill, that North Texas early administrators intended to build the largest and finest teacher-training institute in the country. Athletics were important but strictly second-fiddle to building the college. The man that changed it all was Dr. Joe McConnell. In 1949, he set up five different schools to form a university and dropped "teachers" from the official name. We were awarded our own Board of Regents and we largely became self-governing. He also began to change athletics from "small college" to "major college." The requirement then was simple...just schedule five or more major colleges and you were then a major college. We did that in 1953 and sealed it when we became members of the Missouri Valley Conference in 1957. Had Dr. McConnell lived a little longer then I believe that we'd be much farther along in endowments and athletics than we currently are.

Now you're talking! Dan certainly has a right to complain. His team and recruits looked directly across into a student section of what?...300-500 plus the band. God bless those students in attendance but they're far from enough to attract the caliber of players that we need to maintain a FBS university. Coach Mac is off of his butt doing what he can to garner support but he needs a lot of help. The administration and the faculty need to be behind this program big-time. We have made a significant investment and we need to promote it. Everyone in the AD needs to be selling students and alumni, but especially students, on the merits of all of the programs of this university. I remember Firefighting Rick leading a group of us over to the student side of Fouts after they had approved the athletic fee which allowed the building of Apogee. We thanked them and called them the greatest generation. Where are they now? What does the University of North Texas want to be? Do they want to be a complete university such as UT, A&M, Tech, Houston, and the like or do we want to be UT-Dallas, where little goes on beyond classes? No knock on UTD; they are highly rated and give their students a good education...and little else. Hell, UTEP puts us to shame when it comes to attending athletic events with little more than half our student enrollment. I hope that Dan, the athletic department, the administration, the faculty and alumni that get what the value of spirit, loyalty, and pride can do for a university are successful.

Oboroboros, although your post may be a little coarse (or shriveled, if you prefer) it was filled with good information for us. I mistakenly assumed that most of the students were like Matt, who takes it on himself to find the information necessary to get involved in athletic contests, fine arts events, guest speakers and all the extracurricular events that make a student more fully rounded and make college life more enjoyable. I'm glad to see that you also make your presence known at football and basketball events and I wish that we had 20,000 like you (o.k., we could use less for basketball). But, if just collecting facts and getting a degree is what universities are all about then I'd try some of the online colleges or a community college followed by a smaller college where there is little campus life. It'd definitely be cheaper. The information on these events is available but the athletic department can and should do a much better job of getting it to the students. The school administration and faculty can certainly do more to promote every event because it's also in their best interest. The other point that you made repeatedly is that we have no tradition. Not totally true but if you're looking at the last six years then I don't have much of an argument. Obviously, we'll never be able to match the tradition of the top programs but we're not on the bottom either. Coaches like Hayden Fry and Odus Mitchell and players like Joe Greene, Abner Haynes, and Ray Renfro have kept that from happening. There appears to be the coaches and athletes to regain some tradition if the students will make the effort. We certainly have the quantity we just need to develop quality students. By that, I mean a core of students who have the fortitude to attend every athletic event that time and studies allow. It may take leadership and sacrifice but if SAT scores are a criteria, this student body is more capable than any previous. If no one is willing to take any initiative then the tradition dies and we can close this board as well as athletics. I'm sorry to inject this somber post into the levity that this post had become but attendance is a serious subject. It is our lifeblood and controls our future athletically.

As of now, only A&M has talked to him and that is where he'd prefer to go. The Aggies have the second-rated running back in this year's class and probably the best JUCO runner as well. Does he want to play regularly or be good enough to get some PT and get a good A&M education? He probably thinks that he can be a regular with Williams and Grice in time and may take the chance. As soon as the playoff run is over I'd bet that we contact both him and Washington at Corsicana but I wouldn't bet the farm on our chances on either. UPDATE: Sadler added one more TD and 207 yards rushing to his career total as Devine fell to Wimberly in the playoffs. He ended the year with 3,887 yards and 58 touchdowns.

Good attendance acquires good coaches and good players. IMO, that eventually createswins. No disagreement on the second statement; only that we don't have 12,000 paid over what was there Saturday.

This was the worst case of skewing numbers that we've done. It was overstated by about three times (or more) the number in attendance. Had we been basing our numbers on tickets sold all along then it wouldn't look so bad but playing catchup all at once stinks. It's the last part of your statement that rankles me a little bit. If winning was the only thing that gave people a reason to show up then we should schedule every patsy in the FBS. We show up because they're our players. They're entertaining and they give it their best on the practice fields and in the games. Non-attendance is a slap in the face to the players. What recruit (and there were a number of them there yesterday) wants to come play before an empty stadium? If K-State had used your criterion then they would've dropped football years ago but they kept getting 30-40,000 every game with winless seasons. The wins eventually came and now they are perennially a Top 50 team; often better. So the reverse of the "keep winning and they will come" axiom is also true..."keep coming and they will win."

I was there. I sat in my regular seat and got soaked but I thoroughly enjoyed the win. I excuse the handicapped, the fragile, those working, and others with a legitimate excuse but you can't tell me that many fans couldn't show up to see history made. I'll repeat what someone said earlier, this is a pathetic fan base. We have 36,000 students and other than the band, a few hundred managed to make it to the game. If you don't call that pathetic then you're not a football fan. Most of those attending were in or under the club level and that's fine because you were there. It's the thousands that didn't want to be inconvenienced and wimped out that I have an issue with. Sure we've come through some hard times but we need you NOW! We may have even blown any chance of moving to a higher conference because we don't support an improving team, under much better coaches, in a great facility. We can no longer blame our administration because finally, after more than fifty years, they have made financial commitments. The enemy is us...we are our own worst enemy. Our fan base will likely keep us out of advancing. If I were the president of another university I'd have a tough time voting for us based on our numbers.

Thanks Lifer, for getting this thread back on topic. Even though the Mean Green didn't get the wins, it certainly wasn't Dunbar's fault. The young man gave it all he had and should be revered as a catalyst for turning this program around. If he can possibly get the record he will be even more often remembered. It's hard to compare players from different eras so, to me, Lance will be one of the best running backs in our history. I'm still partial to Abner Haynes because he was the target of every team that we played and they couldn't stop him. That was true even in the pros. Best of luck to you Lance Dunbar, today and through the rest of your life.

The ECU chancellor can't even know his own school's fate, let alone the rest of the league. Everything depends on what the Big East does. One thing that baffles me is why would the two conferences want to merge. First it was going to be for football only; now I hear it's for all sports. Who gives up being a commissioner...Thompson or Banowski? CUSA already has a championship game so what are they gaining? It appears for the moment that Air Force has reconsidered; Navy is waffling without Air Force; Boise State won't go without a western partner; West Virginia and possibly Louisville will be gone in two years; and Villanova (and the basketball schools) won't allow Temple. San Diego State in the Big East? The Big East is a train wreck and only Notre Dame could truly save it. Boise State could end this madness if they would just say no.

I don't want to lose Bowen either but if we must let it be this year when Skladany is an option. Somehow, I don't feel that he would jump unless it's to Kansas (or another Big 12 school). I just wish that we could hire Skladany as the DL coach and move him up when Bowen eventually leaves (hopefully to take a head coaching job).

At this stage no one knows but I just feel fairly confident that we are in CUSA or the MWC on the next realignment. The reason won't be our improvement in record or big increase in attendance although there was movement in the right direction on both. It will mainly be due to market, size, location, facilities and financial commitment. The only potential candidate in CUSA with better qualifications than us would be Temple. La Tech has a better winning tradition but is pretty far behind in the other categories except attendance. We have had the larger crowds but a lower average. We would be #1 in the Mountain West based on those categories. Basketball would be a plus for us except against Temple in CUSA and Utah State in the MWC. It's not so much that we are great as it is that others are not exceptional.

We have an excuse for every occasion. We've used the Big West, Sun Belt, coaches, weather, unknown opponents, commuter school, hippies, fraternities, Fouts Field, tailgaters who stay outside, SMU, money games, administration (especially Lee Jackson), recruiting, publicity, fund raising, athletic department, lack of donors, no baseball, Denton, Denia Park, and injuries for not winning or poor attendance. There may be a small element of truth in most of those reasons but how many are willing to accept the blame for their lack of effort? I know that some do what they can toward the success of this program but most don't. We think that if we give to the Mean Green Club and buy season tickets that we have done our share. Financially, some can't afford a higher level but most can. It's a matter of priorities. Even if you are at the highest level that you can afford you can do more. How many others have you tried to get to support the Mean Green? The Mean Green Club, if indeed it is a club, should organize so that there are stated goals with plans and efforts to meet those goals. For example, the membership committee might have as a stated goal to add members and increase giving so that we can advance to a better conference. I, for one, would not increase my giving if we only planned to continue in the SBC. Put as many as possible on a committee to further the growth of the Club whether it be season ticket sales, attendance, publicity, or another function that would make us stronger. Getting started would be difficult but once rolling it would become easier to perpetuate. Have quarterly meetings (heard of that before?) to keep members informed of our progress and our needs. We need to quit making excuses and act. Pump the AD staff with ideas and follow through with whether they were accepted or rejected and why. Currently, the student body is not pulling their share and should be encouraged to attend at least one game per season as a show of school spirit. The alumni, many who have purchased season tickets (and even chairbacks) do not attend. There should be someone that they can call so that the seats gets used if they are unable to be there. Work rather than make excuses. Others have succeeded with a later starting point and less resources than we have. We can do the same if we try.

I don't know that there is a rosy picture if we don't get into CUSA or the MWC but I think that we'll be in one or the other. If we don't obviously we stay in the Sun Belt. The good news might be that three teams would be added. For us, adding La Tech, UTSA and Texas State would benefit us most. That would put six teams within 500 miles which would be a significant improvement over our current situation. My preference for CUSA replacements would be North Texas, Louisiana Tech and Temple. The first two would replace SMU and Houston in the west and Temple would replace UCF in the east. Per Commissioner Thompson, the Mountain West would like to have a presence in Texas. The DFW market is already a part of the TV contract, so we could simply replace TCU. With SMU and Houston gone from CUSA (leaving only Rice), UTEP might strongly consider returning to a more western conference. They could then consider either adding two Texas teams and/or increasing to 12 by also adding Utah State and San Jose State. Any of those scenarios would be an improvement over our current situation. In time, the Sun Belt could surpass CUSA or the MWC if it adds the right teams.

I believe that the Big East's hands are tied unless and until the twelve football schools breakaway from the eight basketball schools. Then there should be some kind of settlement on NCAA money and the two can go their separate ways.

Nope. NIU is in DeKalb. The only county between DeKalb and Cook (Chicago) is Kane County. DeKalb County is part of the Chicago TV market.

I honestly don't believe that there is a key to an improving offense (or defense for that matter either). This is a team game and a good coach will exploit any weakness. It's true that the game can be won or lost in the trenches but without the skill players they can have all day to run or pass and if you don't have the hosses to throw, run and catch you still won't score. Everyone has a job to do and a chain is just as strong as its weakest link. It is good to see the line gel. They're opening holes, giving the quarterback more time to throw and allowing the other players an extra second or two to make plays. Lastly, as we saw with Hamilton, it's also very important to have depth.

We weren't shut out. Channel 11 had film and a short report about our win.

That was an eye-opener. I'd also add '05 to that group. The class of '08 has been a little better with only about half of them that won't finish their eligibility. The other classes that you named had about three real contributors each and a few more that lettered but what really grabs you is that about half never played at all or even set foot on the campus after signing.

That is certainly true, but... A major part of that reason is the conference. If you're a recruit and you're offered a chance to play in CUSA or the Sun Belt which would you choose? Basically, it boils down to recruiting. CUSA and the MWC get better talent overall than the Belt, MAC and the WAC. The attendance is better, they have better TV contracts and they can afford to pay for better coaches. Plus, the SBC has to play tougher teams to pay the bills. It will be a slow build for a Sun Belt team to have eleven wins in a season. So, while it is the team wearing the patch is the one that will be ranked the conference helps that to happen through bowl alliances, TV contracts, and public perception.

For all we know Micah Thompson might be one of the top 5 offensive linemen on the squad. Some that are now on offense might be quicker/faster and would make better defensive linemen. We'll just have to trust Coach Mac that he'll find the best defensive tackles to put on the field. But I do hope that they find some 300 pound defensive tackles that are FBS quality players to replace Boutwell. Ryan may be strong, quick, tough-as-nails and the other qualities needed for DT but he has to give away 30-50 pounds to the O-lineman blocking him. I see him as an all-conference defensive end but only an adequate tackle.

Maybe not now but if Todd Dodge were still here you'd see page after page about UNT football (or lack of it).

They were offered football-only memberships so that they wouldn't have to travel their teams in other sports such a great distance. Navy was the exception. Thay wanted to keep their olympic sports teams in the Patriot League with Army. I believe that both the WAC and the West Coast AC have offered AFA and Boise membership for their other teams. If they insisted on all sports then I'd guess that they'd be accommodated.

Who knows what the CUSA members have in mind but as long as the conference is still rather far-flung I think that returning to 12 teams would be appropriate. The reduced travel costs for all sports and the additional revenue of a championship game would help compensate for splitting two less ways. Have the champions of the MWC and CUSA meet in a bowl unless one qualifies for a BCS bowl. I'm partial to 12-team conferences, so I'd prefer that both leagues have that number. That would be a real reach for the MWC because there aren't enough qualified schools available in their area and would require a tradeoff with some western CUSA teams. That could mean an additional seven teams. Since those teams would come from the Sun Belt and the WAC that would cripple the Belt and kill the WAC.

This is some sort of misquote. In the first place why would he care about CUSA's losses? Boise State has never been a part of that conference. I assume that he meant the MWC; the conference that he may be leaving. Except for location and the fact that they haven't expressed interest in the MWC, Louisiana Tech would be a decent replacement. NMSU, on the other hand, would be a tough call. They have one of the poorest all-time football records in Division IA. They struggle to average 15,000 attendance. They have good basketball but so does Utah State and they have even better attendance. Funny, Utah State and San Jose State weren't mentioned. Several reports have speculated that they would be the replacements for Boise and Air Force should they leave. It appears that either the columnist or the BSU president made a Freudian slip.