PlummMeanGreen

UNT has fallen to #157? Again, how do we market this in 2006 leaving out all the personality aspects of this dire situation?

Your very last paragraph is the one I don't understand why so many are being blind-sided as far as all those 100 or below wins that have padded DD's wins. I'm also jealous, UNTLifer that you got to see the Mean Green team that all but beat Arkansas in 1968 and then that same Hog's team (with basically all the same players Joe Greene & Gang all but beat); anyway, it was that same Arkansas team who played the Texas Longhorns the followng Fall in what national sportswriters called "the Game of the Century." That game was for the 1969 NCAA National Collegiate Footballl Championship, of course. Wonder what all the Mean Green players from that 1968 team who are still with us think about who we are having to beat up on to be bowl elgible? Again, this is not about a personality , this is all about business or how the heck do we market all this in 2006? I've already spoken to 2 of our best longtime $upporter$ who say they can't support this if DD is still leading this football program. Now we can have posters of GMG.com get caught up in the emotional aspects about this, but this is still all about the bottom line: Butts in seats and Mean Green Club donations and will those numbers grow in 2006? NOTE: Folks, there is a big chance we will fall under the NCAA mandated attendance criteria of 15,000 per home game this Fall AND..........after 3 bowl games before the 2004 season, we barely were above the 15,000 even then. So the question is: Why isn't this football program catching the imagination of Joe Q Fan? Some of you have been answering that question for a long time. DD's overall record right now before we play the last 2 games of this season are 39 Wins's & 53 Losses. Does anyone see that differential improving that dramatically in light of the fact of how the rest of the SBC handled us this year and will all be improving across the board in the next few years, too? Anyone think FAU (which I think is still actually ranked as a 1-AA school along with FIU who we barely beat even with their 8 turnovers); anyway, does anyone see FAU's Coach Howard Schenllenberger's program retreating or going backwards even though they have only won 2 games this Fall (with NT being one of those wins)? But still...........it will boil down to dollars and cents; it will boil down to NT alums, NT fans & NT students approval ratings of all this in 2006 with too many who will unfortunately use 2005 as their measuring stick. You see, the kind of NT fans we need to fill Fouts Field have memories that are short in some areas, like in the summer of 2006 when we start trying to sell season tickets and increase Mean Green Club membership many of our new prospective fans will ask when approached: "Well just how did they do in 2005 before I invest into any of this" OR.................. "Well, I did listen to many of the NT games on radio the last few years, but I couldn't undertand why the NT head football coach kept complaining about too many things unrelated to the interview and even getting all over the very ones who I assume were supporting his teams buying season tickets and joining its, what do you call it, Mean Green Club?

Well, uh, errrr.......that was the short version! ! GOD BLESS TEXAS!

The main problem I have with 1 loss and a near loss to the 2 Florida schools are the fact that they just opened shop on their campuses to play football when our present 5'th year players were freshmen. Also, I am not sure if FAU and FIU are even classified (officially) as NCAA D1-A schools at this very moment which means they are still 1-AA. One alum pointed out to me today that if not for 8 turnovers by FIU, we may not have won that game with the final score as close as it was. Some of our most loyal elect seem content to beat SBC schools and then go play the 4'th place team in CUSA in a bowl game. Some of our paid elect have become almost entirely dependent on beating SBC schools to hang on to jobs. The following 2 years from our past represents some of the schools we played in my junior and senior years at NORTH TEXAS. First thing some may notice are the schools we played, the schools we beat and many of the schools we lost to (in most cases) were not by too great of margins at all. 1975 7 Wins<>*<>4 Losses W UT-Arlington............24-7 W Drake U...................7-3 L San Diego State.......12-30 (as I recall, a ranked SDSU Aztec team) L Oklahoma State........7-61 (Fry's biggest differential scoreboard loss at NT) L Memphis U...............19-21 W Houston...................28-0 (UH won the Cotton Bowl the next season) L Mississippi State........12-15 W Tennessee................21-14 W Cal (Pomona)...........27-17 W New Mexico St..........24-20 W West Texas St...........16-15 1976 7 Wins<>*<>4 Losses L Mississippi State..........0-7 (game forfeited to North Texas) W UT-Arlington...............24-7 L UT-Austin...................14-17 (Earl Campbell makes long run in closing minutes to beat the Mean Green--1'st ever NT vs UT game with Darrell Royal vs Hayden Fry L SMU............................31-38 (NT beat 'Stangs following year) L Oklahoma State............10-16 W Cal (Pomona)..............21-10 W West Texas St...............10-7 W New Mexico State.........25-14 W Louisiana Tech..............14-8 L Florida State.................20-21 W Drake U.......................63-0 Granted, there are some cupcakes on the aforementioned 1975 and 1976 NT football schedules we played as a major independent with no bowl tie-ins, but with the exception of one big loss (OSU in 1975) the Mean Green were competitive in most all the high profile games we lost while winnning a few of those OOC games as well. So when some of us from NT's dark ages get a bit concerned by our not being able to dominate SBC schools of which most are ranked in the 100's and this same SBC which basically has 2 NCAA 1-AA schools from Florida in it); while also being able to at least stay in games with the La Techs and Tulsas in our region, then some might appreciate where some of us are coming from with some of our frustrations. It was the belief of many that the past 3 or 4 recruiting classes had us ahead or at least equal with La Tech and Tulsa. AND........FWIW, many of us from many eras at NT feel we still have better talent than some of those who have kicked us in the teeth this year. So that has some wondering: Whats wrong with this picture? IMO, UNT needs to use ex MAC member Marshall U as a model, ie, as in dominate a league for about 10 years running without any hitches or detours of which we are already having such a detour this season with us having no idea how many other detours we might have after this Fall since the rest of the SBC seems to have caught up with NT (and I present the 2 NCAA 1-AA schools from Florida as pretty solid proof as to where we are right now). Think about this? Will we be that much improved compared to even those 2 Florida schools next year, least of all not mentioning the rest of the SBC schools who will all probably be improved themselves? Yet maybe if NT could use the Marshall U model of total league domination but in our case with our having an abundance of some key OOC wins which we have not had in many years. With that formula, with all on the same page and all pistons running with our football program we should be able to go across the interstate to the new stadium (2009) with a very marketable product that is not quagmired with mediocrity, status quo or a football program that has not taken steps backwards in a league that a school like NORTH TEXAS can ill afford to do. Just my nickel on this pickle. GOD BLESS TEXAS!

H-towngreen, there have been few times that all on this board have been in complete agreement or harmony on most any subject, and I respectfully have to say you and I are on different pages with all this DD business; but I still enjoy reading yours and others feedbacks on most any subject whether I agree with them or not. After all, we are all still part of the same family divided as it seems, but we all want the end result to be our alma mater going to loftier heights than any of us from any era at UNT have ever seen with our football program. You mentioned Tulsa an La Tech? I haven't looked at CFN's bowl line-ups lately, but just what bowls are going to be available that La Tech and Tulsa are seriously being considerred? Have either been listed on any bowls short lists? Just curious. So you're from Sugar Land, Texas? I lost count how many times we grade schoolers of Danbury Elementary (near Alvin) visited the Imperial Sugar Company down there to see those huge mountains of raw sugar. Fort Bend County (as you would know) also has some of the nicest looking horse ranches in the entire USA. I think Bum Phillips still has his there, doesn't he? GOD BLESS TEXAS!

In 1972, Hayden Fry with a 7 & 4 record was fired at SMU. Selfishly, many of us are glad they did and after his Iowa stint he ended up in the College Football Hall of Fame. In 1990, NT Coach Corky Nelson with a 6 & 5 record was fired and that was during a season we beat SMU at Fouts Field. It's all about putting all the facts on the table, looking at the cumlative record over a number of years, who you have played, who you have beaten and then just deciding if your football program is going forward or is it headed in a backward trend. There are no NCAA D1-A football programs that are riding the fence. GOD BLESS TEXAS!

How much more black and white (or red and blue) does anyone need to understand what I am posting? I'd say I am pretty clear and concise in what I am wanting to say. Now those who don't agree can vent their own personal frustrations by attempting to poke a little fun at something that (most likely) many of that same group know in their heart of hearts know is probably pretty damn close to being true. If anyone can't accept what I am expressing in one of my post one only has to put their heads in the sand and ignore them; just like many are choosing to not face the real truth as to why DD has had success by merely piling on wins with some of the worst teams in the worst conference in the NCAA. It pains me to post that, but its what many of you have been saying for years. My light bulb only came on when 5 year old football program FAU beat us 2 years in a row. So if one can't quite understand what I am saying (or just don't want' to accept what I am saying) I will say this in plain ol' English: "Don't link on to read my damn posts!" I will surely not send my Sicilian cousin Guido after anyone if I find out they haven't. Personally, I know for fact that some of the right people on campus who I want to read what I (and others) have to say are reading many of these posts, so (in a nutshell) thats all that really matters to me. And BTW, how many decades have you who can't understand a simpleton post by me been following Mean Green football? And how many hundreds of NT Athletic Dept. coaches and staff members have you seen come and go with most of them never being offered jobs at schools higher than UNT? You might say when a university has that kind of track record in hiring those who will never have jobs higher than UNT, that just maybe from time to time some of us alums may have a question or 2 about some hires? (FWIW, I think most of the time most of us are content with who they do hire if truth be known and it doesn't matter to most if Notre Dame doesn't come to Denton a-callin' as we'd like some of them to make Denton their home for a long time). DENTON RECORD/CHRONICLE!?!?!?! Anyone who would cower down to what anyone from the Denton Record/Chronicle thinks about them or what they have posted on GMG.com is a real wus'! Hellsbells! There is probably as much writing talent from some posters I have read on this board with as much talent than some out there who get paid to do it. What more can one say about that than that? So I do hope this post hasn't been too confusing to some of our elect who say they seem to have problems in comprehending posts that are usually pretty well to the point I would think; OR............ is it more a case of not wanting to comprehend posts that they vehemently disagree with so they use other tactics or diversions to express that? Fact still remains, we have some damn good football players at NORTH TEXAS who are not being led to reach their full potential. I am not alone with that feeling, either. NORTH TEXAS CAN DO BETTER & NEVER FORGET THAT, EITHER, BECAUSE MANY OF US HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN BEFORE!

And stebo, just what have I posted that you consider, uh, obnoxious? If posting what many on this board would call the cold, stark naked truth is what you call obnoxious, then your's and my's generation gap as NT alums once again is most obvious. Most of us remember when you were ready to tar and feather a certain NT football coach. What did he do? Buy you a beer or something? Oh, I forgot, he showed up for a flag football game and that did it for you? So we tag on an extra year on his lifetime contract at UNT for that? Gimmee' a freakin' break! You need to get your Websters out and get a definition of the word obnoxious and then lets pull out some of your archived GMG.com posts from months/years past so all will know what the true defintion of the word is. Have A Nice Day! GMG!

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' November 15'th Addendum (in black letters) FWIW, my feelings in all this concerning DD could hardly be described as personal. I've met the coach in person one time best I recall. It is never any fun for any of us who feel the way we do with all this now to suggests anyone should lose their job--it's really not. This is not a dissing of our NT football players, either, because with any of the over 7,500 posts I've made on GMG.com, I have never dissed any NT football player. This is all about giving our present and future NT football players an opportunity to reach their fullest potential which I believe would give us some of those OOC wins that we all feel would raise this football program up and give us much more respect than waltzing thru the (not well respected) SBC conference would ever do. From all that many of us have heard and leaving football out of this, DD is probably as fine a person as we've had in Denton and as one that has manned the head football coach's office at UNT. But many (trust me, "many") are looking at this as a situation that may cause a rather negative hit in the business part of NT Athletics; you know, as in, uh, money? In America, one doesn't keep a job based on how people like him/her, yet one keeps a job based on his/her overall production and if that employee staying on the payroll will give that company a good future with a positive and good upside. I think the large majority of posters on GMG.com will admit that it is still Mean Green football that is the engine that pulls the NT Athetic Department's train so we have to insure that that engine is in its best possible shape to lead us to higher and loftier heigths than just wins over SBC schools will ever do. Many on this forum have been around this for awhile and can almost forecast way too close for comfort the accuracy of what the UNT community litmus test response will be with DD as our future head football coach even in 2006. We have to start selling more season tickets in 2006 and do you who are still reading this think that will be a possibility in light of everything that we've observed the last few years? Dont' forget, this is UNT and Denton, Texas, America. We will never be confused with South Bend or Tuscaloosa. And way too much of this with the dark cloud of not very positive things that have been dished out by our head coach as described in the "So How Much Capital Is Left For DD @ NT" paragraph below. Amazingly, most of that dished out toward our NT Community even during the best of times at NT albeit those best of times somewhat subtley disguised with wins over schools in the lowest profile athletic conference in NCAA D1-A. Some of our most loyal elect are still being blinded by that as to where they cannot notice DD's OOC record over the last 8 years and seem to only see NT's future in the very neighborhood that many of them in recent years have professed to want to get out of. Now we can all kid each other till the cows come home about what it has taken for us to be bowl elgible in a league that will hardly be mistaken as the Big 12 . Again, this with DD is not about the class human being that I sincerely feel he is (although he has made probably too many "broadcasted" public relation blunders aimed toward UNT's customers that many could not understand the strange timing of those radio comments. This is still all about the business aspects of NT Athletics, ie, a great possibility of already low season ticket sales getting even lower in 2006, how many who will drop 2006 season ticket orders and/or MG Club memberships with some thinking NT leaders believe everyone are buying into this veiled SBC charade. So yes, this kind of fan/alumnus response might be considered as "burning the barn down to kill the mouse,' but when many of our most loyal elect some of us have heard from in recent weeks and some of that group some of NT's largest donors (of which my $500 is not one of those) start thinking in terms of withdrawing their investments in 2006 if there are no changes that will affect longterm success at UNT, then just how long after that do we see that barn smoldering on the the ground? End of Addendum ........................................................ (Anyone else notice SMU & TCU aren't listed)? Someone please go and lock SBC Commish' Wright Water's bathroom medicine cabinet and hide the razor blades while you're there. ................................................................................ Before we lost to a 5 year old football program for the 2'nd year in a row last Saturday and during a time that I was (somewhat) supportive of DD's leadership, I (as many of you have expressed) still felt even during that time that he had probably taken the NORTH TEXAS football program as far as he could take it. (Insert subliminal "how the hell we going to sell football season tickets in 2006)?" What one sees with our ranking on the above list is the culmination of things going south over the last 3 years. We have some damn good football players on our Mean Green football team now that are not reaching their full potential in the opinion of a growing number of fans and alums. Some (I surely hope not many) will be satisfied to see DD merely get this thing back to the same level we've been before as to where we can beat SBC schools, go to the NO's Bowl, get beat by CUSA's 3'rd or 4'th place team while still continuing our annual tradition that began since DD arrived at NT of getting wallopped by most OOC teams we play each year. There are for sure some big name schools in the following chronology of DD's OOC career at NT; but FWIW, most non BCS schools play similar high profile schools each year AND................over the years schools like La Tech, Troy U, Marshall and similar are like the old blind hog and have found an acorn, ie, a win, over one of those "ranked" high profile teams from time to time. DD's OOC W/L Record @ NT: 1998 L Oklahoma........ 37 NT 9 L Texas Tech.......30 NT 0 L Ariz. St.............34 NT 15 L TAMU................28 NT 9 1999 L UNLV.................26 NT 3 (home opener with decent crowd of which many left at the half because of boring offense) L LSU...................52 NT 0 W Texas Tech........14 NT 21 (Corky Nelson & Matt Simon had wins over TTech) L Baylor............... 23 NT 10 L TCU...................27 NT 3 2000 L Baylor................20 NT 7 (largest attendance in Fouts Field history & a time to make big impression with new fans--we didn't) L Texas Tech.........13 NT 7 L UNLV..................38 NT 0 L Kansas St............55 NT 10 W Samford..............41 NT 6 (Samford is 1-AA) 2001 L TCU.....................19 NT 5 L OU.......................37 NT 10 L Texas Tech...........42 NT 14 L South Florida.........28 NT 10 (USF a football program less than 5 years old) L Troy U..................18 NT 16 (Troy still 1-AA & making transition to 1-A & not in SBC yet) 2002 L UT........................27 NT 0 W Nichols St.............23 NT 0 (NSU a 1-AA school) L Alabama................33 NT 7 L TCU.......................16 NT 10 L Arizona..................14 NT 9 L South Florida..........24 NT 17 (USF a football program less than 6 yrs. old) 2003 L OU........................37 NT 3 W Baylor..................52 NT 14 (SMU almost beats BU the next week) L Air Force................34 NT 21 L Arkansas................31 NT 7 W Troy U.....................0 NT 21 2004 L UT...........................65 NT 0 L FAU.........................21 NT 13 (FAU football program less than 5 yrs. old) L Colorado..................52 NT 21 L Baylor......................37 NT 14 2005 (9 games played--2 home games left on schedule) OOC losses to Tulsa, Kansas St., La Tech and LSU Conference losses to Troy U, ULaLa and FAU (2'nd year in a row) Just A Little Food For Thought...& once again, insert subliminal "how the hell we going to sell football season tickets in 2006?" So How Much Capital Is Left For DD @ NT? After continuous radio Mean Green fan/facilities bashing (one of which was an interview on ESPN national radio with a golden opp to brag about what good is happening at UNT? That interview became an opportunity lost), creating an "Us vs NT fans/alums" mentality with his players, still complaining about a short stick given to him at NT, lack of player (now coach's) discipline, seemed and obvious unwillingness to be a positive ambassador or representative of the university with nice things to say about our alma mater of which such an attitude has been known to sell extra tickets to new fans at similar non BCS locales, "You fill in the blanks with what I left out"___________________________________________ CAPITAL LEFT FOR DD @ NT DUE TO AFFOREMENTIONED: $0.00 So is just getting back to a level of being competitive in the Sun Belt Conference going to do it for you and make you feel good about your alma mater? Not with this NT Ex--Class of 1976...

Just got an email asking me why I am on the warpath with this now. My response is that we just got beat by a school (FAU) 2 years in a row who didn't have a football program 5 years ago. The first year they beat us we had a bowl team and the 2'nd time they beat us (yesterday) we had a "young" team--just like FAU had a "young" team. One of our NT coaches said earlier this Fall that if we get behind in a football game by too much, that with our style of offense it is difficult to overcome such a scoreboard deficit. My main question related to that is: If we get too far behind other SBC schools in football year in and year out, just how long will it take us to catch up in that scenario? And lets say we get back on track again with present staff. Just what track are we going to be on? The track of where we get back of beating only SBC schools while getting our asses kicked by OOC schools like La "freakin' Tech, Tulsa and next year---SMU? Is that the, uh, fast track that any of you want back on? I've said it before and I mean't it that IMHO I've always felt DD was a good recruiter but jumpin'jehosophats, you have to do something with them once you get them on campus. We cannot afford to just get to the point (again) that everyone will think all is well on the northern front when we start beating (only) SBC schools again to get to a bowl to then play the 3'rd or 4'th place CUSA team. NORTH TEXAS needs to do something much more grandiose than that and I hope NT officials will wake up and smell the coffee with that. AND........any of you want to market all this next Fall in light of the fact that a school (FAU) that has only been open for business 5 years just beat our school for the 2'nd year in a row? HELLO?!?!?!?

Actually, I'm sure very few things I've ever posted would be classified as "important" but please do here me out on this: Since I've followed NT Athletics (1973 till the present), I would say that probably 95% of all the employees who have worked and then left (voluntarily or involuntarily) the NT Athletic Department have gone to jobs of a lesser scope or level than that of the University of North Texas. So when some NT alums do care enough about their school to follow this for a few decades and still see a need to express themselves about some of our alma mater's athletic employees who one might think might just be keeping us from reaching our fullest potential, it might be that these alums are merely having to look at NT's long running track record of hiring athletic employees period. Even a novice could come up with some conclusions if they were to look at that "95%" (give or take) of NT athletic employees who have not bettered themselves. So in many ways, that could really be looked at as a barometer of sorts? YET THE QUESTION STILL REMAINS: If they can't get a better job than they have at UNT, are they just being so unusually loyal to UNT (albeit they have degrees elsewhere) OR are they just not gettting the job done at UNT to a level of quality as to where other schools are knocking our doors down in Denton to hire them away from us? (In all fairness, some of our ex NT athletic employees chose to go into completely different careers after they left the athletic department). Sorry about all that unimportant trivial stuff there.

Let me interrpret this before someone else misinterprets it. The changes in fonts with a mixture of colors are to help some of my fellow older nestors who have a bit of narcolepsy. They actually serve the same purpose as a cold glass of water in the face of one who has gravitated into slumber-land. Actually, stebo (where is he BTW?) has taken over my title as "Longest GMG.com Poster" and has had the title for several months now. I do hope the rest of the manifesto is pretty self explanatory; that is, if one can just read thru the whole darn thing. This Too Shall Pass.....

To me its not a Darrell Dickey decision at all because if it were that, you keep him because he's a good family man who probably pays his income taxes every year, doesn't curse his players too much (since that seems to be another assistant who does that) AND who goes to church every Sunday, but the light bulb that came on in my head last night after we got beat by a "young" Schnellenberger team (that had lost its starting QB) was that all of this will eventually boil down to economic$ in Mean Green Country. NOTE: Should we all be reminded that FAU has been playing football for only 4 or 5 years? Economic$? In NT's situation, the lack of selling tickets to the last 2 home games which will probably take us too close to the NCAA D1-A mandatory 15,000 per home game (or well under it). That is part of the economic package we are being dealt. Oh, we could lie about the attendance at those last 2 home games as some schools out there we all know do, but we won't at UNT. BUT.......................the killer will be trying to sell season tickets to all this next summer. Its one thing to finish toward to bottom of the Mountain West Conference, but its an entire different deal to finish at the bottom of the Sun Belt Conference which annually abounds with schools ranked in the 100's of the 117 school NCAA D1-A. One of you called it being "the Best of the Worst?" I think DD is a good recruiter and have stated such numerous times, but I just don't he is one who can lead his coaches to coach this talent to much higher competition levels than that of the Sun Belt Conference. It has been said many times that "IF" NT doesn't beat the 3'rd or 4'th place CUSA team we have played in the NO's Bowl, that we are not showing improvement at all. Again, folks, I said "3'rd or 4'th place CUSA team. We have some good football players on this team, but the last few years we've seen lack of discipline on and off the football field (personal foul penalties at really stupid times in the course of a football game?) and now we have one of DD's coordinators rushing after one of our fans who didn't say anything that was inaccurate. Unfortunately, the last 3 years outside SBC competition, we've been out-coached in many games. Economic$? Isn't this a time in our program that we should be building solid fan support aimed toward NT's projected move to our new stadium in 2009? FWIW, the last 3 years we have been been slipping each year and we are much more closely ranked with all the SBC schools who are annually ranked from #100 to #117 than we are ranked with D1-A schools that insures this football program is for certain progressing and making marked improvement. We just cannot continue being the Best of the Worst as one of you posters has coined that phrase. The last 3 years, fellow Greenbackers, we have not shown such progress and a much needed distancing from the balance of the Sun Belt Conference football teams. If NT were in a conference that did not have a bowl tie-in (like during the Mean Joe Greene era and also Hayden Fry's 1'st Mo Valley football champion did not have as well)...........then one should ask this question: How many bowl games would NORTH TEXAS in today's political NCAA D1-A have gone to the last 4 years? That is the question some NT officials really need to ask of themselves if they get hung up on the bowl part of all this. This year we were soundly defeated by OOC schools that we thought we were at least even with. In conclusion, if you can get 1,000 NT students on our main campus who'd say they really like watching Mean Green football and who also like the direction this football program in the Sun Belt Conference is headed under DD and staff, I'd change my mind on the whole thing, but I don't think you could find 500 NT students who would say such. It's really going to boil down to economics and how much a hit our NT leadership now thinks we can handle if we are content to only compete at the level of play most SBC schools compete. That is not the quality of NCAA D1-A football we need to be taking across the interstate to our new football stadiium in 2009, folks .

OK ALREADY! OFF GO THE GREEN-TINTED GLASSES & ONTO REALITY HERE! If we were at the bottom of any other NCAA D1-A league maybe that is opportunity waiting to happen for coach's like Morris at Baylor; but you cannot be at the bottom in the Sun Belt Conference any year because that puts you at a ranking of about #117 in NCAA D1-A. Yesterday was a disaster for this program. We allowed FAU's "young" team to beat our "young" team and FAU w/o their starting QB. Does that bode well for the immediate future of a Mean Green team that does have some talent? It doesn't with the economic (future ticket sales) part of UNT and that's leaving out all personalities in this situation. Those of us who have been around few decades know this will be the case. Upon further review and much thought after collecting some data from past NT media guides, this will (in deed) boil down to econmics for UNT Athletics. Oh, we can go the usual route and start firing coordinators and assistant coaches just like other NCAA D1-A schools at higher profile locales might do, but that may not be the answer if you are a member of the SBC and you are ranked close to #117 in NCAA D1-A, subsequently. SBC membership makes this a unique scenario that you probably wouldn't have in any other NCAA D1-A league. I hesitated to post this because I am such a Hayden Fry fan, but I remember when Fry got fired at SMU with a 7 & 4 record his last season on the Hilltop what happened with one SMU Board of Regent (or Trustee). The Dallas Morning News former sports icon Blackie Sherrod wrote this in a short blurb and I will never forget it as it concerned the great Hayden Fry. But what happened in Fry's last year at SMU (as Blackie Sherrod reported in his old Scattershootin' column) is that an SMU trustee (regent) went off campus and "outside" the SMU Board of Trustees to a very, very high profile Dallas Cowboy official back during the Murchison-owned Cowboys era and just simply asked this question: "What kind of overall job do you think we at SMU are getting from Hayden Fry?" The Dallas Cowboy official gave Coach Fry a thumbs down and then Fry was terminated a few weeks later after a 7 & 4 season at SMU. Yet in Fry's case, a lemon became lemonade in Denton, but Hayden Fry also had NT teams ranked in the Top 20 and several high profile OOC wins as well. It was probably those OOC wins that got him a Big 10 job. Had the old Mo Valley had a bowl game, Fry would have probably kept UNT in the Mo Valley and he would have taken several of his very good teams to a Missouri Valley sponsored bowl game; you know, just like one that the SBC now sponsors? I will trust that our NT Board of Trustees (or regents) will look at the economics of all this longterm, because they are not going to like what they see short-term IMO. NOTE: If someone can put some easy to link email addresses on this forum to the NT powers that be that Dallas Green mentioned, that would be appreciated.

You are right on target, untgirl04. All this is a most sensitive subject I think we would all agree but all this has now slowly been transcending the last year or 2 (or 3) to much more than just one athletic personality or employee. Our school has always been much larger than any one person as it is and for certain more than any one alum. And GG "Rick" II, sorry you fell asleep reading the manifesto which some now want me to start transferring to toilet paper (of which I may agree some of my posts probably would have been better suited). LOL! Hellsbells, Rick, with this flu I can't seem to kick, I fell asleep typing the darn thing as it was! See you at Homecoming and will look forward to it. Heck, I'll just look forward to getting out of the house period other than to just feed some quarter horses and 20 goats who always need feeding whether I'm healthy or not. (Again, Rick, lunch in Fort Worth later this week if I'm not contagious)? GMG!

There is only one on our campus who will insure that DD gets an extended contract or if DD gets terminated and that is NT BOR Chairman Bobby Ray. This seems to have become common knowledge among the masses. GMG.com posters will not be firing DD and if anything, will cause some campus officials to dig in on this subject with the normal human response that reverse psychology sometimes (surprisingly) creates. After all, we know how many among the NT Administration feel about this mesage board after Branding/LogoGate now don't we? FFR received one erroneously sent email from one of their committee members--who will really ever know how many others on that committee felt the same way. WHAT SHOULD BE NT OFFICIALS BIGGEST CONCERN NOW? Just like in last week's Dallas Morning News SportsPage article with some of SMU's most ardent supporters quotes and some interesting info on SMU football season ticket sales (or now lack thereof); anyway, the Mustang faithful are now more concerned with future significant ticket sales than what a win or another mounting loss will create if they continue with Phil Bennett as coach. I think NT officials may now want to begin looking in that direction (tickets sales) with our situation rather than just getting into pissing or shoving contests with NT alums or posters of GMG.com; that is, if they choose to clam up and get defensive over this subject. What subject? The subject of firing anyone they were responsible for giving annual extended contracts and one whose future lies on their very lengthy conference room voting table. In some of our regent's cases, they do sorta' take some of this just like any of us would if we were on the NT Board of Regents, you know, as in uh, personal? Diplomacy from those not on the NT payroll or its BOR's is now essential and not a choice by those who want to express themselves on this sensitive subject. As we all know, ticket sales are the lifeblood of this athletic program and our NT Athletic Dept. needs everyone on the same page to sell tickets in Denton, Texas, America. I suppose you cannot realy have it any other way at any non BSC school outpost AND........you also cannot have departmental dissension at UNT if that has become the case. Yet any ticket sales they get from NT alums outside the school's hometown base of Denton, Texas, should be considered gravy, but we can ill afford to lose the Denton fan base (however strong or not so strong that fan base is). Barring the continuance of this damn flu which caused me to miss the entire FAU game broadcast today as I have been sleeping most of today, I will be at the 2005 Homecoming football game (hellsbells, I have 4 season tickets and a Mean Green Club investment and FWIW, Patrick Cobbs and his teammates really do deserve our support no matter how we are fuming now). 99% of us will be at the NT Homecoming game, too, and we know we will be there because we all also know that Homecoming is more than just about a football game. Oh, some may plan to boycott the Homecoming game over all these frustrations with annual OOC losses that have now suddenly become SBC losses, but such things as boycotts only end up hurting we the fans and $uppoter$ in the long run and in an era when any high ranking NT official may just be looking for an excuses or 2 to cut back on athletics (which for this moment in time I don't think to be the case). Still..............we have some darn good talent on this Mean Green football team who will see brighter days ahead and that is how I choose to end this post. GMG!

Toilet Paper?!?!?!? We use corn cobs out here in Parker County, greenjoe. Explain this new concept of, uh, toilet paper, please? Thank you in advance....

I can just see this upcoming newspaper headline: NCAA D1 football player catches terrifically bad cold due to A/C'nd shoulder pads, bad cold turns into nasty case of pneumonia, NCAA football player succumbs. Buriel services will be held in Alaska on............the frozen tundra. (NFL Films is part of this tragic story, too). Uh.............GMG!

I have this feeling just like after the 1999 down season when Dickey (with no facilities such as we have now) brought in probably one of NT's top 3 recruiting hauls of all time; anyway, I just have this gut feeling his upcoming recruiting season will be one bonanza of a haul for NT. In fact, I hope this next group (with the very nice talent we have on the NT campus now) will be the group who takes the Mean Green to Top 25 rankings and hellsbells, why not? If Bowling Green of the MAC can do it, why shouldn't NORTH TEXAS of the SBC do it, too? GMG!

As an outsider (who hasn't been to many Mean Green BB games in recent seasons) looking in, I applaud Mean Green Coach Johnny Jones and his staff for what seems to me to be the highest rated NT basketball recruiting haul in our school's history. I don't think ex NT Coach Coach Robbin's recruitment of Fred Mitchell, Kenny Williams and Melvin Davis ever got these high of grades nationally; that is, if they were keeping such recuiting rankings during that era. Still getting over this flu which doesn't seem to want to turn me loose, but I did tell one of our most ardent BB supporters on GMG.com last year that I will be trying to make some of our weekend games this year (and that is my goal). Congrats, Coach Johnny Jones! GMG!

I didn't vote for Bush--didn't vote for Kerry, but voted for others running during the last presidential election. I'm an Indy', neither a Democrat or Republican and wasn't that excited with either Bush or Kerry overall, but I do support whoever we elect as our U.S. president (just like I know many of you do the same) and George W. Bush just happens to fill that bill. Yet I did think Sadam Hussein "WAS" (alone) a weapon of mass destruction and should have been removed just as he was; in fact, probably should have been removed after he chemically poisoned the thousands of Kurds which included their women and children. So do we of the world community ignore that? I don't know why world opinion is so anti-Bush/USA/England/Allies on our removing Sadam Hussein, either. I bet none of this world's present citizen's grandparents or great-grandparents had no problem with the U.S. and Allies' invasion of Germany and subsequent removal of Adolph Hitler (who like a coward committed suicide). In fact, shouldn't we have done that with Hitler even earlier? OK, Harry/Cerebus, yall can now remove this political thread.

I know one NT alum (among others) who has been saying the high-lighted part of FFR's post for a few decades now and that would be, uh...............ME! Some of us older nestors talk about the Hayden Fry era @ NT ad nausem to many present day NT officials and I'm sure to many of you young gun NT alums, too. Certainly, even some Fry-coached NT football teams should have won some games it lost and we all know we won some games most had us pegged to lose BUT THIS ONE WORD PRETTY WELL DESCRIBES HAYDEN FRY'S MEAN GREEN FOOTBALL TEAMS--WIN OR LOSE: entertaining NCAA football isn't the Iraq war, it isn't always a way for anyone to prove their manliness, it isn't always a way for anyone to prove their intelligence (or lack thereof)........BUT THERE IS ONE THING THAT NCAA D1-A FOOTBALL IS (or should be)..........................ENTERTAINMENT (and at which time it ceases to be that, the people who can make a difference at NCAA stadium's turnstiles will stop buying tickets to watch it). This probably even more the case at the majority of non-BCS college football outposts. I believe NT officials in the past and present may sometimes need to remind themselves as to just what NCAA football is still largely all about and the most important constituency it direly needs to have to purchase tickets non-stop in order for it to co-exist. GMG!

That is a very, very big and exciting personnel development for next Fall's Mean Green football team, Harry. Those of you who can should really subscribe to the Mean Green Report. Sometimes even just one exciting thing you can read on it makes the entire year's subscription worth it all. Much like after having a very dismal 1999 NT football season, at that period of time also having no facility improvements on the way and then (Lo! and Behold!) following that 1999 season with one of the top 3 recruiting hauls ever at NORTH TEXAS, we need to duplicate that year and have a super recruiting haul this December (for JUCO's) and this February for next year's Mean Green true freshmen class. One of the things I have read numerous times on this board that Mean Green Coach Darrell Dickey does as effectively as any NCAA D1-A coach out there is that he doesn't write our recruits checks that cannot be cashed; or in other words, Coach Dickey shoots "arrow" straight with recruits about what he has planned for them in Mean Green Country and we've had several parents of present Mean Green football players come on this board to (proudly) verify that fact. I guess we've all heard the horror stories of other NCAA D1-A coaches who blue sky recruits telling them everything they perceive the kid wants to hear and then many of those same kids finding just the opposite is true once they arrive for their first few weeks at the choice of a school they will exhibit their football talents. GMG!

Well said Rick, Run at all cost only works agains teams we have better athletes than. Anytime we come up against a team with greater speed, we lose. Just need to give the guys more to work with. Then again, RF knows much more than I do. ................................................. That "run" theory, Green92, seems to have more merit each day for this alum. GMG!

MGP, we are looking for Charley (and hopefully his brother) to being most integral components of this football program's turnaround from the brief detour we had this Fall. Best I can project with all this, all those recruits who sign with NORTH TEXAS this February and RS next Fall; anyway, all of that RS class will get to play 2 seasons in NT's new football stadium at Eagle Point Campus at least according to the announcement a few days ago of a 2009 stadium premier AND that announcement coming from our Mean Green official athletic website. This new football stadium opening will be at the very top of the list as one of our school's most shining moments for all of us who have ever been associated with the University of North Texas. GMG!