PlummMeanGreen

I know, here comes the Hayden Fry gibberish from an old fart 70's alum once again but...........there was not a day in the 6 years we were lucky enough to have him as the NORTH TEXAS head football coach that we fans (students) were ever embarrassed with the product we got from him on the football field. Of course, I realize we are talking about one who came to Denton already a proven product {hmmm? what a concept that is, eh? } which I guess is a similar scenario and scene as to what UTEP (with Top 25 first time rankings ever) are experiencing now with their Coach Price (although the jury is still out if he will ever be in the College Football Hall of Fame such as Hayden Fry). There were hardly ever any games that we went into with the innovative Fry that we ever felt was a body bag game. Hellsbells! We thought Fry would find a way to beat most anyone we ever played any time we teed up the football. That was a good feeling for NT alums and students to have back in the day. It is an experience that I believe we will one day (again) experience, too. I just know in my heart of hearts my saintly mother looks down from above and is embarrassed with some of the things I've posted on this forum, ie, GoMeanGreen.com; but (God rest her soul) she has no idea how her only son feels how right he feels he is (along with others on this board and beyond) with our present and future situation with Darrell Dickey. Is it sport or fun for me (and others) to post things that will affect a human being and his family's lives? No, it is not fun at all, it is not what I consider to be sport and it still makes me feel uncomfortable with what I have posted many times; but on the other hand, we are just not in the business as an NCAA D1-A school of running a center of benevolence because people just happen to be good and decent people, either. I have made much recently about our NT Lady Mean Green head BB coach's 17 year career at UNT and with her still being under .500 and what I feel would never been allowed at any other NCAA D1 school who is serious about a progressive athletic program. I've even met Ms. Slinker on one or 2 occassions in those 17 years and found her to be (what many times we say here in Texas) "good people" but there are many, many, many "good people" out there that are not cutting the mustard in their jobs no matter the scenario or how a situation has caused that to be the case and are not given the time that we seem to give those at UNT. That part coming from our leaders amost bothers me as much as some of our coach's W/L records over long periods of time, too. It makes me sometimes think that our present UNT leaders are not giving us the kind of progressive leadership one would expect to get at a school that is a member of NCAA D1-A. Still (and as Yogi would say I'm being redundant all over again); anyway, any NT Ex or Mean Green fan only has to check the football media guide out to see that maybe we have been operating under some semblance of a disguised success and I will only have to defer to NCAA D1-AA schools we lost to in most of our bowl years. Like one said, you can fool the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time" and that becomes even more clear to me everyday with our present situation at the University of North Texas. I read a post on GMG.com last night from a long time NT EX who has been attending Eagle/Mean Green football games since the 1940's. He said (in his post) that he was going to give all this with Dickey Ball just one more year. I believe him when he says "one more year" but all this should have never been allowed to come to this level. Our NT leaders just merely need to put aside their Andersen's Fairy Tales book, face (and then admit) to the cold harsh realaties that they can easily see for themselves in an NT Football Media Guide and just show our entire UNT constituency and family that they really are aware of what has been going on with a football program that has been successful in a not so successful football conference. A football conference of which most of its members teeter-tooters in and out of the Bottom 10 most every football season. We all I believe just really expect more than this at UNT. One might assume the glaring fact that Darrell Dickey gets no inquiries (least of all any interviews) with higher profile (than an SBC level) NCAA D1-A head football coach's job openings would also serve to be a fairly ominous red flag as to what the rest of the college football world thinks about the progress (or lack thereof) of Mean Green football and even all that after 4 bowl appearances. After one reads all the facts with all this, I think even a novice amateur would see this as a "no brainer" with the football program at UNT and with the decisions that probably should have already been made as to nip all this at the bud now (rather than senselessly throwing another year with many NT Exes and Mean Green fans who see trends that are still not changing as to make any dramatic differences in the 2006 Mean Green football season. A Challenge to NT Leadership: Please do consider getting a copy of the 2006 NT Mean Green football schedule and go down the list of each team we play and (taking off your green tinted glasses) just count how many wins you seriously think we can win next football season. Many who have been DD supporters on this board even think we probably start out 0 & 3 and among those 3 a loss to an emerging SMU Mustang football team. Others have even posted about our alma mater's football team staring out at 0 and 5 in 2006. With the fact that we still seem to be recruiting at the same clip as the last 2 or 3 years with (not near enough) talent and similar overall talent that produced for us last season big losses to La Tech and Tulsa and now our recent recruting efforts have reared their ugly heads with the Mean Green now losing to SBC schools (such as FAU who "ONLY" beat us for the 2'nd time in a row with one of those 2 wins being in a year we went to a bowl); then after you come up with how many games you really think we can win in 2006--why do those who create the direction of our universtiy need to put this football program behind yet another year and delay the inevitable? In closing, just who is it do you owe another full season even with present trends that show no signs of change? So NT Leadership, plea$e do con$ider that you owe the one$ you are a$king to annually inve$t into all thi$ a$ the one$ you owe; after all, there are many, many, many more of u$ than a mere handful you all ($eemedly) want to be the con$ummate "Texa$ Good Ol Boy($)" with.

REVISED AND UPDATED ON TUESDAY, DECEMBER 27'th: Well, eulesseagle, for what its worth its like part of a verse of an old song many times we hear played on bagpipes: "I once was lost but now am found." I tried, I tried, I tried, God Almighty knows how hard I tried to be a good little NT Ex and support Dicky Ball, but a few kept bringing to my attention things that you can read in the NT FB Media Guide. Once I finally took off the green tinted glasses, faced the reality of the situation and discoved what I sorta' already knew were the way things really were I just asked myself: Why are we delaying our ultimate "higher profile" success at UNT by doing the same things with the same people that will keep producing the same results and at an SBC level?" As the old Hank Williams song title says: I Saw The Light! (and it wasn't a freight train coming toward me at the other end of the tunnel, either). In many ways all of us sports enthusiasts are all romanticists, that is, we all like happy endings to sports stories; we all like to see (or hear) of those Bill Mazaroski type winning home runs in the bottom of the 9'th inning of the last game of a tied series as was the case in the 1960 World Series versus the Yankees; we all love to see those old NFL film archives such as the "Hail Mary" pass from Staubach to Drew Pearson; and we all sorta' pull for the sports under-dogs since that is a very easy thing for us to do at NORTH TEXAS (since we've played that role for way too long) BUT............ ...........IMO, the best case scenario happy ending (to some of you-not me)that this can ever be with DD at the helm is only being the best of the worst, that is, being at the top of the SBC, to expect another loss to CUSA's #4 team in a NO's Bowl matchup and never, never, never have any Top 25 consideration (like the top schools of the MAC most always do). All this with Dickey Ball annually draws about 15K per home game at Fouts Field and even in each of our 4 bowl years and I just think that every UNT alum out there knows in his (her) heart of hearts that we can just do better than this. We actually have before and had the Mo Valley had bowl tie-ins, we'd stayed a bit longer there (probably) and had some bowls under our belt back in the 1970's when there weren't too many bowl games at all. OK, SO SOME OF OUR LIGHT BULBS HAVE FINALLY TURNED ON: Yet its time for NT officials (our Board of Regents) to wake up to all these cold, stark, blatant realities and to make decisions that allow this football program to go to the next level. I know there will be one more year of DD ball, but there really doesn't have to be after national signing day results are in this February. Are any NT officials (outside the NT Athletic Dept) even having evaluated on a daily or weekly basis how our present recruiting is going in comparison to those we recruit against? Shouldn't they be doing so with the money we spend on NT football? And especially how we are recruiting versus those who we thought we would have beaten this last Fall or at least played closer games (which we didn't)? If our campus leaders are not checking out present recruting they need to because what we are doing now on the recruiting trail will show up in 2-3 years no matter who the coach is. This is really not rocket science is it? Could not even a novice amatuer (oxymoron there? ) figure some of this out by just observing who we were beatej by even in our bowl years? NT officials and leaders who take this serious enough (and I hope they all take this serious enough with the budget our campus spends on football annually) can even go to some area outsider who are up on Texas HS recruiting to get their information on just how UNT has been doing (and is doing now) against those we recruit against who are at our level. How about starting with Dave Campbell TEXAS FOOTBALL'S own recruiting guru, ie, one Mr. Randy Rodgers" whose son (Jeff) played linebacker at UNT. Wouldn't most of us feel DC'sTB's Randy Rogers would probably give any high ranking UNT official a candid opinion on what he thinkgs of our overall NT recruiting and to all that free gratis; then if need be, go get a 2'nd or 3'rd opinion if one thinks the "coach's networks" is at work with some of these evaluations of NT recruiting. But FWIW, Tulsa and La Tech losses last Fall really should have given NT's leadership all the answers they really needed to know NT's recruiting has not been up to snuff the last 2-3 years. WE NEED MORE THAN JUST GOOD RECRUITING ANNUALLY: Then on the matter of who we do recruit and sign, once they arrive on our campus they still need to be taught disciplined football, they need to be developed physically and they need to be taught that they are actually allowed to beat other schools than merely just those in the SBC (which we have not for the most part in 8 years of Darrell Dickey Ball). Truly, why so much of all this has NT officials and Regents so blind-sided is as much a concern and question to many NT Exes as anything we are discussing about Darrell Dickey. None of this continuance of obvious mediocrity and low expection in Denton just doesn't make sense and it won't make cent$ much longer if its allowed to continue. W/O doubt, we will have "one of the best recruiting classes in the DD era" when all this is done and said this February after the national signing date. Already the spin-masters are at work (with the help of the DRC who is totally in the NT Athletic Dept. back pocket and has to be in order to get any scoops from NT's varsity athletics headquarteres-----------but haven't we all heard this "best recruting class ever" stuff before only to (now) see our heads handed to us on a silver platter during bowl years by 1-AA schools now in the SBC and this last Fall, Tulsa U and La Tech? Yet when it came to matching on the field of battle our recruiting hauls the last 3-4 years in compariason to the La Techs and the Tulsas, I think we'd all agree that maybe we were came up short, that is, maybe we were all wearing those green tinted glasses a bit too long all hoping those were (in deed) good recruiting classes those previous 3-4 years? Well for those who need further proof............I present to you the worst good old fashioned country lickin' and home loss in the history of Fouts Field in our home season opener versus the Tulsa Golden Hurricane just this last September. It proved to many that we are not even remotely close to where this football program should be in recruiting and IMO whatever the recruiting haul this Winter will still not be enough to turn all this around in one season--so why burn another year with all this? Surely we won't give another UNT varsity coach 17 years to figure it all out while still being under .500 in year SEVENTEEN, will we? One might also wonder if each of our NT Board of Regents have the most recent copy of an NT Football Media Guide (and have actually taken the time to read it)? What they might want to especially focus would be those season-to-season break downs all those lower profile schools who we lost to during most our bowl years. I think if they read that, it might be the very thing that takes their minds off their (I'm sure) very high profile Bourbon Street experiences and fun times as regents briinging them back down to earth to some pretty stark realities concering what they keep rubber-stamping each year with extended contracts. Anyone else think schools like Troy U (who beat us in 2001--our 1'st bowl year) may have thought back then that they should have really been in the NO's Bowl instead of North Texas? What about even 5 year old program FAU 2 years ago when they beat us in our first meeting ever at Fouts Field (and that when we went to our 4'th bowl game in a row)? Anyone think Coach Howie Schnellenberger had a few negative things he was uttering under his breath about North Texas, ie, the very school he beat in Denton, Texas, America, who went bowling instead of his very fine FAU team? You remember good ol' FAU, right? They beat us once again this last season in now only their 6'th year of football operations. PLEASE LET US IN ON THE BIG SECRET, NT REGENTS: Once again, what are we all missing with this that the NT Board of Regents just keep rubber-stamping with their approval. Are there special commendations for never being in the Top 25 and lingering toward the Bottom 10? Will we get special grants for that?!?!? Seriously, would any other board of regents or trustees at any other NCAA D1-A outpost's deem any of this as acceptable? I think we all know the answer to that question. Good to see others are apparently now reading their own NT football media guides (as well as reading the realities of what the Dallas Morning News and Fort Worth Star Telegram's top 50 or 100 "area" lists are telling each and everyone of us; that is what many of you already sorta' knew about our Texas/DFW area recruiting). So why delay our football program's eventual progress at UNT (as we know our leaders will) even one more recruiting season or football season if we see that some trends are still not changing and are never going to change under our present coaches? Whoever has been at the top of the SBC in football in recent years, doesn't the SBC bowl representative deserve to be of the same quality of the MAC's top football school each Fall with the MAC champion annually getting Top 25 rankings of which we have been light years away from even in 4 bowl appearances. Any of you who know Bobby Ray please do consider bringing some of these things up in conversation next time you have a private audience with him. Who knows, maybe some already have. Mr. Ray was so very candid, straight-forward and outright bold to tell one on this forum most recently that we are making "zilch" progress or headway with a new football stadium at our UNT-Denton campus; so I just wonder if he might also voice with that same candidness and boldness that (in light of who we even lost to in bowl years) it appears we are also not making any progress or headway with Mean Green football as well? In fact, haven't we been going backwards in light of what that NT FB Media Guide is telling us?

Thanks, Joe, and to your and yours......... A HAPPY NEW YEAR! (We will see upwardly mobile good times again in Denton soon.....wait, watch and see)!

Arkstfan, UNT is perservering its reputation as an athletic employee's dream job with very nice Texas state benefits, ie, the NCAA's version of the Haven of Rest (isn't that the title of an old gospel song they sing at funerals)? Get your daddy to help swing you a job at UNT and you don't have to do much in Denton to please many of our fan base; hellsbells, you can even kick their arses around on the radio 5 years running just for the sport of it while some of the recipients of that just lay back and think that is part of what they are supposed to stay loyal to. But FWIW, there really are many of us (wish more of them would actually take the time to post) that are not happy with beating schools who (quite frankly) many of us had never heard of during another era when the Mean Green were playing, beating or (at least) playing close schools like Tennessee, SMU, Texas, Houston, a Top 20 ranked San Diego State, Mississippi State, Memphis, Oklahoma State, etc, etc, etc, If all the schools who are now in the SBC had been in the SBC its first year (2001), I think I count (maybe) "one" NO's Bowl game we would have gone to, but our "very easy to satisfy" alumnus fan base who seemedly don't much won't a football program (that doesn't have a snow balls chance in hell of ever getting in the Top 25 under present conditions); anyway, many of our fan base just don't like to hear this kind of talk or even look at their NT Football Media Guide with some strategic scores in most our bowl years that would easily verify what some of us have been posting. You see, Arkstfan, mediocrity is a disease that is very difficult to cure when you have a bunch in your fan base who think its already been cured. Hopefully just one more year of all this and then maybe we can start getting serious about getting one who will lead and recruit toward Top 25 rankings (instead of Bottom 10/SBC success). Amazing as it is, there are a helluva' bunch of us who feel merely winning the SBC and playing the 4'th ranked CUSA team (and losing to them) is just not what we have in mind for our alma mater's football program. What many still feel we can do we can even do as an SBC member, too. One only has to look at the MAC who seems to get their top football school(s) in the Top 25 from time to time. During our 4 bowl years, Dickey Ball could not even smell a Top 25 ranking (even when we won 1 of those bowl games we couldn't smell Top 25-----many would call that (alone) a red flag about a school's true direction with its football program, but at UNT we just want to get back to the top of a league that stays pretty well toward the bottom of the NCAA D1- rung. WE EVEN HAVE A REWARD STYSTEM @ UNT: Thru the years, we have put a few people in the NT Athletic Hall of Fame not so much based on accomplishment, but rather because they merely were on the UNT payroll for way too many damn years. I even had a PE instructor at UNT who was one such inductee. Now some will (once again) call me negative, but I will call what I am posting positive as I (and others) are identifying negative things that are happening to our alma mater while we teeter-totter non-stop in the bottom 1/3'rd (as you said it) of rankings with now some 1-AA schools ahead of us in Sagarins football rankings. I am trying to discover where I am missing what others seem to be seeing; that is, some semblance of a trend at UNT that indicates things will be much different in the near future (but be much differerent at a higher profile is where I feel will be the main shortcoming with NT football). QUESTION: Don't most fans when there school goes to a bowl want their team to be in (or at least) pretty close to a Top 25 ranking............or to at least get a sizeable amount of votes for Top 25 consideration that indicates some are noticing and acknowledging with votes your school's football program's progress)? There are some things or people in life that are truly worth being loyal to, but being loyal to "most easily identifiable" mediocrity is not one of those times to exercise such a trait that (even if you did) you may never get back in return among many employees at NCAA D1-A outposts. Hell, some of them if you don't watch out will attack you in the very stands you buy season tickets for each season. Now thee are some out there that might even say such activities as that may be the true measure of what a school's athletic employee-base might really think of its cu$tomer$, ya' think? Next year will be a tough $ell with all of this and I really do empathize toward the one who will have that responsibility. HAPPY NEW YEAR! & Congrats Arkstfan On Yalls Good Showing in the 2005 NO's Bowl!

A BELATED RESPONSE: CMJ, to respond to your last paragraph, I feel I am doing something positive by pointing out many things that bear being looked at and examined with our program. Basically, I am doing the same now others did with me on the DD situation even when I was giving it the good ol' college try in supporting the direction of our program under him. Even then, I was hardly ever comfortable with much of what I was observing with our football program in general. Yet with me all I did was take off those green tinted glasses for about a minute, checked out who we lost to in OOC this last season (and by how much) and then the clincher for me I found in the NT FB Media Guide and that was looking at who we lost to even during most of our bowl years (can we all say "1-AA" schools in unison here)? Some of those 1-AA schools had they been in the SBC (as they are now) we would probably not be discussing any of this now at all because they would (most likely) have gone to the NO's Bowl most of those 4 years instead of us (since they beat us head to head) and DD's under .500 record coupled with his poor and very well documented (and radio broadcasted) public relation abilities with our fan base (that now seems to have infected other employees presently in the NT Athletic Department). FWIW, have they all forgotten who their customers are out here? Anyway, if all those schools who beat us during our bowl years had been in the SBC , I feel even at UNT there would have been a change of our head football coaching position. What gets my goat with much of this is how many want all this to have some kind of Hollywood happy ending with DD (still) only getting back to the top of the SBC/Bottom 10. Folks, we've been there before yet still could not even smell Top 25 and could not beat the 4'th place CUSA football teams in our last 2 bowl appearances. Is that really what will float most of your boats out there with our alma mater's football program? Once again, I hope when you young gun alums are in your 50's and after many of you having had all the high expectations (& those seemedly a bit low at times during the DD era); anyway, hopefully when yall hit the half century mark that you will see an NT football program that is way further down the road than anytime in its history and you all don't have to experience the roller coaster ride many of us Baby Boomers (and olders) NT alums have seen with all this the last 20 plus years. Some of us of the 1970's who saw a different style of leadership and for darn sure a different type of (innovative) offense, have just seen little since then that could hardly be called media attention grabbing progress since we were playing and beating (or at least playing closer) higher profile teams on our schedules during most of the 1970's. Honestly, most of our group just thought we would be (at the minimum) exceeding successes of the 1970's era as would be the normal progression at most NCAA D1-A outposts--but at UNT, we are infamous for going 3 giant steps forward, then 5 giant steps backwards and those backward steps usually having everything to do with who we hire. Ask UTEP about hiring, it really is key or strategic proven performers at high levels who turn programs around and take programs to prior unseen levels (at least in football, for the Miners). But at UTEP, they seem to want all this more than some of our own who are more than content at being at the top of the SBC, playing the 4'th place CUSA team in a bowl and NOT even being able to smell any semblance of a Top 25 ranking. Also, comparing our situation to Frank Beamer's situation is like comparing the Bad News Bears to the Boston Red Sox. Little that we do at the level we do it at can ever really be compared to many programs who operated at a much higher level than we. I would think that Coach Beamer's bosses,ie, his athletic director with the VT board of regents approval) saw something with his program that indicated a positive trend of good things to come. I see no such trend at UNT at this point in light of 1-AA losses (which few on this forum seem to ever consider with all this) and those even during bowl years, our overall recruiting of the last 3 or so years which this Fall more than proved has not even been at the level of La Tech or Tulsa (as most of us had previously thought) and then culminating with a football program coming off of 4 bowl years in a row to the bottom of the SBC/Bottom 10 this Fall. A football program that recruits well every year doesn't got to 4 bowl games in a row then suddenly to the bottom of the bottom of the bottom of NCAA D1-A in one year. So does all this show a football program that has been built on a solid foundation? All the aforementioned trends mentioned above I feel bear more serious thought than NT's (always) biggest nemisis, ie, apathy is allowing to transpire. Amazingly, that same apathy at NORTH TEXAS has also been some of our NT athletic employees (present and past) ace in the hole for a continuance of a mediocre performance. 17 years on the NT payroll by our NT women's head basketball coach who (herself) is still under .500 is about as good example of this NT "employee-friendly" apathy as one can come up with as a prime example. Yet is anyone else ever curious why our average football attendance most every year (even after 4 bowl years) still hovers around 15K plus? With the enormous UNT constituency, ie, our enrollment, DFW NT Exas, Denton County population (larger than New Orleans even before Katrina); anyway, this is a total abomination. Some of you years ago coined something called "Dickey Ball" and most know what the true interrpretation of that is by now and it has something to do with "non-innovativeness on the offensive side of the football. OFFENSE? Where our Mean Green offenses rank most every year among all others in NCAA D1-A is a pretty big clue on that, too. With Fouts Field being half full (hey, I could have said, uh, "half empty" most each game of most each football seaosn in Denton, are we still really content with the product we are getting that many times allows you observe borderline or casual NT fans (you know, the ones we need to fill the other half of Fouts?); anyway, you see many of that group looking disgusted when they are witnessing a not so remarkable performance in most of our season home openers under DD and those openers a golden opp to impress first time fans. But go to your car at half time and you will observe many of these Mean Green curisoity seekers people leaving with many of us assuming we won't see them again any particular footbal season. I never, never, never diss NT football players and haven't since I've been a member of this forum, but they have to be given the chance to use their talents in disciplined, innovative ways that gives them a chance to win in the first quarter, the 2'nd quarter, the 3'rd quarter and the, uh.............4'th quarter. Wherever this non-aggressive (almost passive) "we want to put our football players in a position to win in the 4'th quarter" philosophy came from needs to go back to its very origins and put in file 13. A football program in today's NCAA D1-A cannot be successful with such a philosophy (unless its operating toward the bottom of the 1-A heap). Yet (again) that type of philosophy (expecially) on the offensive side of the ball, tends to keep a D1-A offense ranked in the 90's all the way up to #119 among NCAA D1-A schools most any year. The NT Football Media Guide is full of interesting facts and figures for those of you who will dare take off your green-tinted glasses for a few minutes to check them out. Here's That Same Question Again: So just why is it that we annually hover around 15K plus per home game at Fouts Field and that even after 4 bowl games, too?

Not sure Payton Manning could have had a good year with the offensive line blocking we saw for most of last football season. That seems to be the variable that is most always forgotten when the position of QB is discussed on this forum. For certain each and everyone of us who call themselves Mean Green are all waiting for our messiah to arrive for this football program, but I am afraid he is not yet on our campus at this moment in time. ......................................................................... ON ANOTHER FRONT: I wonder who Rice U will end up hiring as their head football coach? I heard one of the M.G.R.N. guys make a comment on the UHouston/U of NT broadcast during the half time show and with that comment being: "Just walking past us is a candidate for the Rice job." Anyone else hear that comment on that radio broadcast and who could he have ever been talking about?

Doesn't it seem that most JUCO QB's usually make their biggest impact the 2'nd season they are on campus; that is, unless they ran a similar offense at their JUCO as the school they transferred to? Seems we have also leaned more heavily on JUCO signings this year than in recent memory; and I say that only because I don't think we are thru even now looking at JUCO signings even if they have to come in and enroll this Fall. Most D1 college football coaches would still tell you the best way to build your football program are with recently graduated HS seniors. And Rival's Crabtree's comment when he said "a program like North Texas" 99 out of 100 X's would usually be such a comment that would hardly edify our standing among the other 118 D1-A football programs. QUESTION: Might this same Rivals recruiting guru have said "a program like UTEP" before Price became their coach? Obviously, many of us are duly impressed with just how quickly Coach Price turned the Miner's football fortunes around, yet at a higher profile and at a Top 25 ranked level which we were never able to get even close to in any of our 4 bowl years. That part has to eventually change (and change very soon) at UNT if our officials want to keep our fan base interested in this football program; in other words, being merely the best of the worst on an annual basis will get old pretty quickly for most on this board, even those who think our present direction and level among the other 119 schools in NCAA D1-A is just fine.

Yet it shouldn't take a decade in Denton of 2 steps forward/3 steps back to reach Top 25. Just look how quickly UTEP did it. Look how they got in some pre-season Top 25 polls overnight after they hired Coach Price. I'd run naked drinking margaritas in a baby bottle out on Fort Worth's Loop 820 if we even made a pre-season Top 25 poll. But we are talking about UTEP the World-Beater here? UNT still has a most impressive differential of wins versus losses against UTEP in our all time football series with those Miners. This is do-able folks, but to get to the moon, you have to aim for the moon. And money where our mouths are?!?!? Thanks for the reminder, iluvius32, as I need to mail a check to the MG Club this next week. (I knew I had forgotten something here in the busy Chrismas season). GOD BLESS YOU ALL REAL GOOD, FELLOW NT EXES & MEAN GREEN FANS & ALSO........... A MERRY CHRISTMAS, TOO!

At times it can be difficult to get many in our Mean Green family to agree on many subjects, but this is one I feel we would all mostly agree is a project that brings to us a real life perspective of (basically) what life is really all about compared to trivial things such as game wins/losses or how we feel should be the ultimate direction of our athletic program. As I said before, I remember the late Ron Shanklin and Abner Haynes talking most highly of Mr. Larkins many years ago at a Dallas gathering. They both thought most highly of Herb. I also remember being moved back then with their interpretation of the Herb Larkins story. I hope we all can help his Christmas and upcoming New Year become a most memorable one and that because of his extended University of North Texas family. Again, thanks for bringing all this back to our attention on the great Herb Larkins, 125'th Street Gang. I hope he has many more "green tinted" guardian angels who will head to the Post Office this next week to send him a (belated) Christmas card and a love offering befitting each of their budgets. I guess we all never take the time to sit back to count each of our own blessings until we find those who have had such unfortunate things happen to them in their lives and have had to deal with the consequences of their personal tragedies most all of their adult life. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL !

Now gol' darn it Rick, I heard you were even the featured speaker at the 2005 NT football banquet so what in the wide world of sports is-a goin' on here with that announcment?!?!? How can you even think of doing this to us now at such short notice!?!!? Just kiddin' pal, everyone needs to do what their conscience tells them to do considering our current state. As someone once said: "This too shall pass?"

Come on now CMJ, please do reveal that you also grew up in a Track & Field oriented Mean Green family. Mean Green football to most of the minor sports people at UNT in decade's past has most always been the big (necessary) evil; although the part that many times gets un-noticed or swept under the carpet is that it has usually been football and some of those big money games that helped to fund most of NT's minor sports, that is, if they weren't cut due to Title IX demands. AND.....just look at the present membership of the Missouri Valley Conference for anyone who thinks UNT, Memphis and Louisville all 3 made mistakes by leaving that league all around the same time. So UNT was not alone in this "leaving the MVC" venture, its just that the other 2 schools didn't wave the white flag and retreat in football as UNT did post-Fry of which we still are suffering in many ways like say in, uh, our difficulties in getting in leagues we would really prefer to be in? All that became reality for us now because post-Fry we did retreat in football to such an extent that schools we even perceive ourselves to better than in football (until this football season reared its ugly head) are getting the conference invites we each and everyone covetted. The age old problem in Denton is that we didn't hire personnel who could carry Hayden Fry's jock strap once he left and most of them who would try either as AD or head football coach became some of the very ones who would lead the parade in becoming Fry's biggest critics because they knew they couldn't carry his jock strap (and still can't even today). And yes, the "bonehead" decision of leaving the MVC usually became that groups big battle cry towards Fry. How utterly silly and futile all that seems today as we look at all the national attention NORTH TEXAS of that era had never had; and that was during a time when small conferences (like the MVC or today's SBC) did not have bowl tie-ins for its football champions. Yet it was all of the aforementioned NT leader's Small Dreams post-Fry's career in Denton that pretty well got us where we are today, ie, the SBC/Bottom 10 of which being at the top of that league still seems to be just what the doctor ordered for some who don't think UNT can do better or even deserves better. Yet isn't it proven leaders (not projects) that 99% of the time are the ones who take your athletic program forward or to the next level? If they just happen to have charisma, that is an added bonus (and a season tickets seller at most places). So you who are still in your 30's, please, please, please consider to start raising some well-placed hell to the appropriate ones on campus so you won't be like some of us who are now in our 50's (or older) and with many of our group still wanting to know why our alma mater hasn't progressed in football with high profile wins (or at least) being able to play those kind of schools closer as we did in the 1970's for the most part. BACK TO THE MISSOURI VALLEY CONFERENCE: Of course, the much lower profile look of today's MVC may remind some of you of the Sun Belt Conference so in a sense I'd understand why some who are judging all this 30 plus years later (with 20/20 hindsight, of course) may have thought we (in deed) made a mistake by leaving a conference that has schools with not much higher profiles than most of the schools in our present league. Of course, had we not left the Missouri Valley Conference (a league with no bowl tie-in), our biggest victory may then have been over Drake or Bradley or Wichita State (all MVC'ers who have since dropped football) rather than the University of Tennessee Volunteers in only our 2'nd season out of the MVC. We also for the first time in our history were able to schedule games against the Texas Longhorns as a major independent, too. So anyone tell me if Fry made a bone-head decision by giving us a chance to even tee it up in Knoxville, Tennessee, and with a chance to win that football game (which we did) if you don't think "high profile" football is the engine that drives the train at any NCAA D1-A school (which it does whether one accepts that fact nor not). Yet even today, much of this goes back to what good ol' Jerry Moore of Appalachian State said just days ago when asked if his school ever aspired to be in NCAA D1-A (and I quote him liberally): "If a school doesn't want to budget and be in at least the Top 80 schools of NCAA D1-A, then 1-AA is a better place to be." So come on, North Texans, lets do whatever it takes to become part of that Top 80 (preferably) higher that Jerry Moore spoke about. Wonder if our present UNT powers-that-be read that quote from ex UNT head football coach Jerry Moore and soaked it in? If not, some of you who may know our campus "leaders" personally might want to consider sending them a note with that quote from Jerry Moore.

You've been listening to some "non-progressive" old timers in Denton who wouldn't know Big Time football if it stepped up and bit them in the ass as far as suggessting NT's dropping out of the Mo' Valley membership was a bonehead decision. Fry left Denton for a Big 10 job. Who wouldn't have done the same? In a strange sort of way, it's a good thing when you lose your head football coach to (really) big time schools because that means they probably were doing big time things in Denton over a period of time (but against high profile schools, of course). Seems success against low profile schools doesn't seem to impress those Big Time schools looking for head football coaches and I think that has been proven of late in Denton, Texas. Not the first time we've heard all this on NT's leaving the MVC. Yet the all time bone-head decisions I'm afraid are being made now at UNT. Why? Check out our successes (with even much closer losses back in the day) against high profile football schools during the Fry era compared to (so called) success against the sisters of the poor football schools we are now playing. An NT Football Media Guide pretty well tells the tale of all this for those who would dare to read it to see the comparisons. Some of us who were students when UNT dropped out of the Mo' Valley would say that it was not a bonehead decision at all. In fact, it would have been a bonehead decision to stay in the MVC for the changes it would soon be making (as far as its membership was concerned. Hellsbells, I even remember as an NT student driving near the present Denton C of C building near Carroll Blvd. and seeing a huge sign on wheels from one Denton business that said: " We Support Independent, Hayden!" Also, I never heard anyone on campus say other-wise. And being one who frequently drank coffee at the Denton Square as an NT student, I also remember talking to the "boys downtown" on this and they were almost 100% in support of Hayden Fry's decision to leave the Mo' Valley. Check out the Mo' Valley of that era to understand why. Also, keep in mind that the Mo' Valley did not have a bowl tie for its football champion, either. If that had been the case, it may have been a more difficult decision for Fry to have dropped NT out of the MVC . In fact, Memphis and Louisville may have delayed their leaving the MVC as well had there been a bowl tie-in. Honestly, I think all was on schedule for Fry's grandiose plans for NT being a major independent because he felt back then that we would have a better chance of getting into the SWC after having a successful run as a major indenpendent than as a Mo Valley football champion. Fry always had a grand plan for most anything he did. He didn't just sit around and make knee-jerk decisions that didn't have a purpose. He also had entertaining (and D-I-S-C-I-P-L-I-N-E-D) football teams, too. You knew whoever he would recruit would receive good coaching, would develop their skills post their HS/JUCO careers and play disciplined football in Denton. Fry also saw that being successful in the (then) Missouri Valley Conferrence of that day would not generate much interest from the SWC people. At the time, Fry did not realize how strongly the private SWC schools would be against UNT (or any large state university for that matter) coming in as its 10'th member. They would not want to lose their 4 school voting bloc power and adding UNT (or any other state assisted school) would have created a voting imbalance even moreso for them as far as SWC matters were concerned. Yet as far as our NT football schedules as a major independent, if one would look at their NT Football Media Guide they would soon observe that there were many more higher profile opponents on our schedule back most of whom we were competitive with on the football field (with no comparative facilities, either). FWIW, I can't recall that we ever played any present SBC schools (save ASU and ULaLa) during that era. Not sure many of us knew about most of them, least of all where they were located. Now we find ouselves right smack dab in the middle of that group as a league member. Wouldn't be so bad if we were all ranked somewhere in the Top 80 of the NCAA D1-A than where the SBC presently resides. Also, count in rarely considered factors now that during the Hayden Fry era how there was a much smaller Denton (40K pop. then/100K today), a much smaller Denton County (99K pop. then/approx. 560K today), a much smaller NT enrollment (17K enrollment back then/32K today) and an NT that was really more a commuter school at the time with fewer dorms and apartments near our campus; and (for certain) a much smaller DFW NT alumnus base (probably half the number we presently have in the Metroplex). All the aforementioned constituencies still did not partner with Big Dreamer (and future College Football Hall of Fame coach) Hayden Fry to give his dream a fighting chance. Wish we had the demographics and numbers we have today as it would have made a big difference because of the charismatic leader that Fry was. It just stands to reason had our Pied Piper had todays much larger NT constituencies, he would have had more who would have joined his parade. His first few weeks in Denton, he went out and raised what would be the equivalence of $1,000,000.oo for the NT athletic coffers. Yet Hayden Fry still did this with practically no viable football facilities on our campus. Quite a remarkable thing he did even considerring that alone. The Missouri Valley Conference that AD Hayden Fry took us out of was beginning to evolve into what you see of that league today. Memphis and Louisville would soon follow our lead in gettting out of the MVC and we are not talking about the upward bound Memphis and UL football programs of today, either. They were also trying to decide back then if they wanted to raise it up a knotch or 2 in NCAA D1-A football. So FWIW, its was the Missouri Valley football connection that kept all 3 of our schools from doing so and which created the very reasons all 3 schools would leave the MVC.

I still marvel at our alma mater's athletic modus operendi.......Seems we sometimes do more for non-North Texas graduated employees than we do for some North Texas Exes. In your sector of business (assuming that positive production is a requirement and criteria) would you get 17 years to get it all figured out (especially if in your first 7-10 years you were not all that productive or successful)? In my sector of business, sometimes you don't even get 17 weeks if you miss the target. We are all proud of our NT Lady Eagle's academic accomplishments from the recent report that showed their GPA's from 5 years ago, but something tells me that most NCAA D1-A school's varsity sports head coach's (for both men and women) don't get hired to be academic specialists or tutors. Nor do most NCAA D1-A programs get their programs into the Top 50 merely because they have some students who succeed only in the classroom. If we are recruiting students for that, just give them academic scholarships and let them play intramural flag football on the intramural football fields or basketball in the PEB or old Men's Gym. Our alma mater just simply continues to amaze (and depress) me with some of its hiring procedures (and retainment of non-productive) employees. Non-productive? I mean that as how we compare with 118 other NCAA D1-A schools, not schools at any other level such as schools who have "Ant-eaters" as a freakin' mascot. Sorry, but Prairie View A&M as fine a schools as it is, also should not be a measurement of our program, either. So I guess job security for many UNT employees is the least of their concerns? Any of you know any other NCAA D1-A programs who gives some of its key athletic employees as much time to succeed? I (for one) have never heard of one and can't ever remember hearing or reading about such a benevolent school in my 40 plus years of following college athletics at the major college status. You who get excited about UNT beating the "sisters of the poor" I guess our present situation in the NT athletic department is just what the doctor ordered, but I gurarantee you when most of our present NT varsity coaches apply for other jobs, it won't be at the lower level they are (sometimes) beating that seems to satisfy way too many of my fellow alums who just seem to be laying back and enjoying it while its happening to them. Former Aggie Clayton Williams once said something similar when he ran for governor of Texas and some even think the "just lay back and enjoy it" quote cost him an election back in that day. The question I have to my fellow NT Exes and fellow Mean Green fans is: What is all this costing us now? GOD BLESS TEXAS!

Seriously, if we don't address our defensive line situation in recruiting, it won't matter how many 2'nd team All American JUCO offensive linemen we sign (if we see next year what we saw this year from of defensive line). I am not sure I remember a Mean Green defensive line as porous as the one we saw this last season unless it was during our NCAA 1-AA era. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!

Ditto... I also took you on your word, 125'th Street Gang, and sent a Christmas card and some money to Herb. You just seemed to know much about what I recall hearing many years ago on his story. BUT............. please, please, please understand this really doesn't have to do with you or the great Herb Larkins, but rather some horror stories from other $imilar $ituations that went south very quickly. Our society (unfortunately) is one that is suspicious and untrusting of most other fundraising situations. Heck, there are people who won't give to the Salvation Army or Goodwill because they don't always feel their money will get to those who have the real needs. Harry is a most fair-minded person that you may want to email and with the 2 of you talking (via telephone) on this project so we can really do somthing real big with it (because from all appearances and hearsay, I don't think UNT ever really did help Herb Larkins back when all this unfortunate situation happened with him). The fact remains is that he is part of the Mean Green family and his extended Mean Green family (who can) should rise to the occassion when one of its members is (and has in the case of Herb) been hurting for decades on his most unfortunate tragedy. So please do email Harry from his GMG.com email address and please consider talking to him on this, I think its very important that that contact be made. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!

Dropped my Christmas card and (enclosed) modest gift to Herb Larkins this afternoon at the Weatherford post office. In response to a couple of alums, it is my belief that our Christmas cards and cash gifts will get to Herb Larkins because the person who posted the story on the basketball section of GMG.com (although going by his GMG.com moniker like most of us do when we post) just knew very much about what many of us have heard in past decades on this University of North Texas tragedy. And a tragedy that I'm not sure NT officials of that era ever completely addressed (or tried to help in some semblance of a voluntary compensation to Mr. Larkins back in that day). Also, much like the Spirit of the Season we celebrate now, don't we just have to do some things in life on blind faith as it is? At any rate, I think we'd all rather see North Texan Exes taking care of our own especially when they have their backs against the wall. Might be amazing for a few to realize, but the Former Students of Texas A & M University don't have a corner on the market in doing that type of thing with their own; although I know most of us admire that most positive trait of Texas Aggies everywhere as they support each other in many endeavors after they graduate (especially in the job market). Thanks for linking the Herb Larkins Story, UNTLifer. GOD BLESS HERB LARKINS! (and a special thanks to you 125'th Street Gang for bringing this story back to our attention.

Thanks for this update and story about Mr. Larkins which I heard many, many years ago. I believe it was either the late Ron Shanklin or Abner Haynes who brought this up about Mr. Larkins at a gathering in the early 1980's. Mr. Larkins was a student at UNT before I transferred from Alvin JUCO (also near Houston) in January of 1972. Mr. Larkins will get a (late arriving) Christmas card from this 1976 NT Ex and (what is called at many churches) a love offering albeit a modest one. Just as you have done, 125'th Street Gang, and as I know others of you who knew Mr. Larkins or his story, too, would also encourage NT Exes of every era, especially (as you have said) in the Spirit of the Christmas Season to do the same. Thanks again, for this update 125'th Street Gang and to you and yours........ Merry CHRISTmas James Plummer UNT Class of 1976 ................................................................................................ When upon life's billows you are tempest tossed When you are discouraged thinking all is lost Count you many blessings name them one by one And it will surprise you what the Lord hath done. (a verse from a favorite Hymn)

It's thit nerth taxes edgee-kation @ werk agin, MG61. Of course, there are things (goals) at NT we really do need to exceed, but it's Christmas Week and I'll spare all of you the ramble & rant, fellow grunts & storm-troopers. I sang in the tenor section in a Christmas cantata last Sunday AM and hosted a Karaoke Christmas party just last night out here in what used to be the Commanche/Kiowa Indian raids section of Parker County, so I am really getting into the spirit of things (which this time of year always seems to mellow most all of us out, now doesn't it)? For one of many New Year's resolution, I am working on a GMG.com attitude adjustment as I post since I know most all of us really want most of the same things for dear ol' alma mater, but FWIW, I still mostly post not so much for you the registered regulars of this forum, but mostly for those who anonymously lurk from campus and beyond (of which we know by now are apparently numerous). For certain, I have not changed my feelings for what I feel is a most uncertain future for some areas of UNT athletics and the UNT System, in general, but I will make an honest effort to back off (unless I feel I need to respond to an HSO I vehemently disagree). (So, uh, Harry, with all this now a matter of public record, do I still get the Christmas gift from the Miers' family)? MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL & TO ALL A GOOD DAY!

Plus.........UNT has just as many of its students living on, within blocks of campus or within a mile or 2 than the combined enrollments of SMU and TCU. Really a good time for NT leaders to take advantage of all this. I think all of the aforemenioned (coupled with Denton and Denton County's dramatic growth) are finally beginning to translate to more new faces at Fouts no matter the quality of the product. I think all this happening because (once again, IMO) many more fans are feeling more personal ownership with this program. And because of all that yet another reason our campus leaders need to do everything to see that this kind of momentum continues and for them to make the decisions that insures it will (and continues to grow). You know, as in, uh, W.I.T.--- Whatever It Takes? GBT!

SUNDAY MORNING COMIN' DOWN... Let's see now, Jake the Snake "Plummer" (NFL player), Christopher "Plummer" (actor/'Sound of Music), Amanda Plummer (actress) and Glenn Plummer (actor). I am trying to remember in the past 5 decades when I've ever seen it spelled any other way. And you also mention Cerebus? He's a company man. Doesn't he really have to respond as such as to maintain his ties with NT athletics so they want black him out on "much vital" info? I often wonder how Brett Vito of the DRC puts up with such poppycock coming from our present NT athletic department. BUT......no conspiracty factor at all, just mostly personal disappointment with how I feel a bunch of dead head Freds are letting Darrell Dickey lead them to the un-Promised Land (while he verbally kicks their asses on radio broadcasts the last 5 years)? Jeez! Some of you enjoy that kind of crap? Yet some of the MG Nation remind me of the ones who made fun of Noah even as they began making that gurgling sound. Still some around here who know nothing about OOC wins (since such OOC D1-A wins you can count on 1 hand in DD's last 7 years). And others who just cannot seem to fathom (or just don't want to fathom) which NCAA D1-A scavengers we have beaten the last 4 years (prior to this one) which has given some a false semblance of success with DDickey. Again, I defer to the NT media guide and which 1-AA schools OR schools in business for less than 5 years we lost to in our bowl years). Whats it really going to take with all this? Do we need to hire a sky-writer to spell all that out in big letters over the NT Administration Building? Yet............where is the conspiracy factor of anything I've posted on this subject at hand? Sorry to make this revelation to some who are comfortable with DD mediocrity, but there just happens to be many more than just myself who feel as strongly about all this. Yet for now, DD has the chairman of the NT BOR's in his back pocket (but those scenarios don't last forever). But such NT employees depend on the usual "non reponse" of the UNT community and know there will be no organized efforts, a mobilization of the masses and that to tell present powers that be that we just really think we can do better because many of us witnessed such days of success at a higher level. We are (simply) getting schooled at UNT by those who know that the last 5 years of low level competition and the kind of apathy that even some on this board are showing will help them perservere their jobs for about as long as they want in Denton, Texas, and on the UNT-Denton campus. More conspiracy stuff with such blasphemy as that---------hell "freakin' no. Why? Just check out your NT Lady Eagles basketball coach and how may years ( try 17) she now has under her belt and still having an under .500 (just like yalls boy Dickey who will never hit .500 in wins/losses as long as he is in Denton IMHO). But hellsbells, give anyone 17 years at any job and eventually they will probably stumble into some kind of success at one time no matter its brevity. Sorry (and again) no conspiracy with the above thoughts, either; but rather more blatant reality that our alma mater just really doesn't know how to successfully hire and then administrate this thing called intercollegiate athletics at the NCAA D1-A level; but it is all us of the NT community who are the ones who will (once again) stand to lose the most (as we are asked to $upport all of this low expectation and goals). ........................................................................................................... Some of you young gun alums in your 30's or younger please do hear me out on this. This time no tongue in cheek or manifesto type lagniape for what I am going to say but.............many of you remind me of me when I was in my 30's and you couldn't keep me away from anything relating to NT Athletics or other campus functions. Some on this board would verify that. But then you wake up one morning and suddenly discover that you are no longer in your 30's, but rather in your mid-50's. Then you begin to see your alma mater hasn't made one damn ounce of progres as to what you would have expected based on where NT athletics was in the 1970's when we were playing (and beating) schools like Tennessee, SMU, Houston, a Top 20 ranked San Diege St, etc, etc, etc. So in a nutshell, all of that pretty well capsules my own frustation as an NT Ex and as an annual NT investor of Mean Green athetics. You beat your head against the wall with all this for a few decades and you all but get to the point that you feel you are doing nothing but thowin' good money after bad. Not a very happy destination point to come to after 30 plus years of following Mean Green football with those (forever) high hopes that someone would lead us to way more "high profile" wins and successes than we ever witnessed under Hayden Fry. So in closing, to all of you young gun NT alums in your 20's and 30's (who I really do admire from a distance), I only hope that when all of you wake up some Sunday morning to find yourself at the same point with this program that many of us have found ourselves decades after our graduations; yet where do you think (in light of what you are presently observing and recent trends) this football program will be in context to most of the other 119 schools in NCAA D1-A? I only hope that each of you are part of the very NT generation that sees a dramatic shift of good fortune (specifically in football) for a school that just flat out deserves much better than its getting now and at a higher profile. GOD BLESS TEXAS!

I have to ask the question as to what have I said that is not true? I don't give a rat's a$$ whether you like this poster or not because (honestly) I don't waste 2 seconds of my life thinking about most of you any more than you would me--hellsbells, I don't even know most of you except by this message board. I will say that many on GMG.com have emailed saying they are 100% on board with all that I (and others) have said in recent weeks. Be nice if some of that group could put those on threads like this one every once in a while. Yet to you all who do agree, if we don't stand up for what we all think we deserve with UNT football, then who the hell will? Only a visually handicapped person would not be able to see what Dickey hath wrought with all those big wins over the Bottom Feeders of NCAA D1-A. Can yall really get exicted about next Fall with DD in charge? We all know what we will see. What surprises could there be that we haven't seen in 8 years? I still defer to a 1975 NT FB schedule to some of you who want to know why some of us older alums could hardly be excited about what we are now getting in Denton and mostly with who our present competition is that we have to beat to go, uh, bowling. (Come on now, I dare you to get those NT FB media guides out and just see how far this freakin' football program has fallen). But still, the main thing that seems to have not gotten through to a few of you were those bowl years when we were beaten by future SBC schools who were (only) in their D1-AA transitional years. What more proof of what we've been getting do some of you (seemedly a bit slow of wit and learning capabalities) need than that? What zip codes are yall in? Is it part of this galaxy? To you who took me up on looking at that 1975 NT football schedule (as well as other schedules very similar in the 1970's) you might then see that some of us actually saw much better times (against better known opponents() than some of you young gun alums are seeing now. And recruiting? Come on now, how many times are we even showing up on "Local" lists? Do any of you really see that much difference this year than what we've been getting the last 3-4 years which produced some talent but not near enough? And our limited talent base that would lose to such schools as La Tech, Tulsa U (only our biggest home loss in history) and............... freakin' Florida Atlantic U for the 2'nd year in a row? BTW, for you who are having a most difficult time getting your heads out of the sand, our first loss to FAU was also during a bowl year for DD's footbal team. CALLING EARTH! ANYONE HOME?!?! So yall go ahead and make fun of this poster since some of you seem to have problems adding to a discussion whether you agree with it or not. In fact, some of you with the quick hitter posts continue to show your small stature and complete immaturity (and you know who you are) with your responses; but you can mark all this in 3 inch headlines that what this 1976 NT graduate is (and has been) saying on this subject is about as close to the truth as some of you are ever going to be capable of handling. So if a hardy handful of you really think being the Best of the Worst is just where its at in Denton, then some of you whose posts I do actually read are most correct in saying we are (in deed) in different zip codes. Since we are now talking, uh, zip codes you want to know what my zip code really is? Well, just check out some of those 1970's era NT Mean Green football schedules (again) in your NT football media guide because that is the zip code I started with as a UNT student resident. That is my zip code. Those of us who were NT students 30 plus years ago should not have to watch as Mean Green football goes back to the womb. In a perfect world, a college football program over the course of a few decades should be going forward and be advancing--not going backwards as is our present mode. Mediocrity is a disease that has run rampant at UNT, and one glaringly sad fact is how some of its employees need that (and apathy) as their main ally to even be able stay on the UNT payroll; but even a bigger shame is how some on this very board are accomodating that need for a few UNT employees who are getting paid a whole bunch of money to have such multi-year W/L records. Any bets on which NT athletic employee is the next one to attack a NT Ex and/or Mean Green fan? Of course, I jest with that, but that is also another red flag as to where this program has been allowed to degenerate. It's called leadership folks, or in our case, a lack thereof. GOD BLESS NATIVE TEXANS!

Right or wrong, UNTLifer, just stating what I 've been told. Actually, some of the names planning on doing this would probably surprise some NT officials. My meager MG Club $500 is for sure not among the group I am referring to. We have a problem that needs to get fixed at UNT and I think that is what those ones I refer to are trying to say with the best way they feel catches most people's attention: $ GBT!

Why do any thought process differerent from others on this board always (and suddenly) have to become a conspiracy theory? I think it is evident to all what is going on at UNT. Start with the sudden resignation of President Norval Pohl with no job lined up to go to once he leaves Denton? Sure he had his VP problems, but most would stick around and solve such a problems. There is just more than meets the eye than most will ever by privvy to and some things that cannot even be put on this board unelss you have a good attorney. I think Lee Jackson is your basic good southern gentleman, but thats not what we are talking about here, but rather what I fear to be his agenda after talking to a few that have me concerned that our main campus (UNT-Denton) is going to be at the short-end of the stick because of this 2006 Jagaur that we bought (namely, UNT-Dallas) that we cannot make payments on (and couldn't from the git-go). Check out UNT's total financial endowment to further prove that point. It will convince some of you that we really did screw up by taking on that south Dallas county project (and still at the expense of UNT-Denton). GBT!

I guess I just don't get as tense with the place of Adolph Hitler in world history or anyone else. What they did cannot be changed. Actually, I had to study about the guy at UNT since history was my minor. Yet Hitler showed the world what happens to most dictators I suppose one might say? Yet, many of us do have a problem with those revisionists out there who hide their heads in a hole (ostrich style) and sweep the realities of any situation under the carpet; you know, just like when someone has a difference of opinion of what they see as the progress (or lack thereof) of Mean Green football as some of us used to actually know it outside the SBC/Bottom 10? Honestly, the biggest surprise in all of this to me is how just getting back to the top of the SBC is going to be just good enough for many of you NT young gun alums, but what the hell, all some of you know are the MUTS, the UL's (both of them), FAU (with both our 2 losses to them), etc, etc, etc, Well, you are a GMG.com administrator, so do what you need to do with this less than Polly-Anna'ish thread. I'm sure your good buddies at the NT Athleic Dept would be proud if you really showed some real power of censorship here. But the cold harsh fact remains that its still W/L records and who you play and lose to (even in bowl years) that still speaks most loudly and no poster needs to say a word on any forum for that to be noticed. Trust me when I say that it is now being noticed. GOD BLESS THE ORIGINAL TEXAS RANGERS WHO KNEW WHEN TO KICK A$$ WITH THE ONES WHO NEEDED THEIR A$$E$ KICKED! (Sorry, even more history that just cannot be revised no matter how hard some may try).

What basisi? How about 1 or 2 top NT Exes types telling me that that is what we could expect with Lee Jackson as the UNT chancellor? You tell me what basis you know of that such would not happen? Many of us would celebrate such a basis if you had one. A Non-Hitler "Illustration": Yet, if "Joe Big Donor" such as a U of Houston Big Donor did years ago; that is by asking the UH chancellor at the time where his monies (how about $50 million?) could best be served on campus, do you think most chancellors would first suggest that we do need a new football stadium at our UNT-Denton campus? And that suggestion being made while our most very disappointing (which describes the feelings expressed by NT Regent Chuck Beatty weeks ago); anyway, that our disappointing UNT-Dallas project would continue its non-stop delays in getting its free-standing status)? Do look at the entire UNT System situation at this particular time, Eagle1855, and tell me where big monies very well could be diverted to (or away from) by those on campus who are in a position of power to do such? GOD BLESS TEXAS!