PlummMeanGreen

Good idea, drex...........and I promise I will not hi-jack this thread! Hope all is well for you...........Here's a toast to better times for those of us who are running out of time to have such! LOL! Nutrias, great name for ULM, Bill. I have actually shot a few of those varmints in a few rice fields near Alvin.

JUST RESPONDING TO UNTLIFER... The last 2 NT head football coaches were released from their contracts after they completed their last recruiting classes. Some of us can only hope, you know? UNTLifer, yets its that kind of apathy (of why fight City Hall) that has our alma mater just hanging in there with subpar NCAA D1 talent on our payroll keeping such people on the UNT payroll who will be lucky to stay in NCAA D1 once they leave UNT. FWIW, how many NT athletic staffers the last 2 decades have left UNT for better situations? I can tell you for a fact that not that many have. TO ANSWER ONE OF YOUR QUESTIONS: Many have recently changed their minds with DD (even when we were reluctant DD supporters as we gritted our teeth all those years with his condescending radio comments (to people just like H-towngreen, to people like you and to people like me, UNTLifer); and all those radio comments from the most arroagant NT employee who has done absolutely nothing within the realm of the real mainstream NCAA D1-A football competition that we have ever had on our payroll. We have NT staffers who still cannot provide viable large group promotional programs (nor do they really give it the good ol' college try) that pulls over 15K per home game averages at Fouts (even during and after the bowl years). Also, they for damn sure don't take responsibility for any of their actions with any of that, either; yet------they pass the buck to somone else and some have even put the blame on all of us who actually do show up for the games (or those who did). Some of this same group who have failed miserably actually think they are the cock of the walk (so to speak) with nothing but veiled successes over a bunch of SBC nobodies to hang their hats on. It's almost laughable to see them bask in their low profile glory. THIS WOULD CAUSE MOST TEXANS TO BOIL: Some of this group in the NT Athletic Dept. have insulted our alums and our fans with their non-customer service oriented attitudes, yet still, they wonder "where are all the fans" when they open up the turnstiles to our campus varsity sports venues on Game Days (or Game Nights). Hey! And for damn sure don't get caught in the pre NT basketball game Boosters Club refreshments room (even as a guest of a large donor) because you will be called out "publicly" with a "what the hell you doing in here" type commments or "you don't give enough money to be in this room" type of attitude from one particular NT athletic dept. employee who should really think about reclaiming his own midwestern roots as far as most NT Exes are concerned. And then they wonder why 2,000 is now their top basketball crowd up there? This is all such a no-brainer of what should happen with many of this group in the NT athletic dept. that our campus leaders are completely stumbling over the simplicity of what they need to do as NT leaders to end all this bottom of the barrell athletic administration and on the field performance (save our NT ladys soccer program). Many others now have their reasons for changing their minds with a Darrell Dickey led football progarm, but for me, it was (basically) 3 losses this last season: Losses that a school who had gone to 4 bowl games (even as SBC/Botttom10 champion) should not have had and those were against Florida Atlantic U (our 2'nd loss to a 6 year old athletic program witih one of those during our last, uh, "bowl" year with DD), our worst home loss in history versus the Tulsa Golden Hurricane and then the icing on the cake for me, a loss to Louisiana Tech of Ruston, LA. All those losses should tell those who will just sit down and do some deep thinking that our recruiting the last 2-3 years has not been as advertised. It was more veiled and disguised results that this group at NT athletics depends on such apathy from all of us so they can continue their careers in Denton while those of us who have seen much better times throw our hands up in the air. FWIW............this group has (effectively) taken the passion away from many of us with their smug, condescending attitudes along with their low athletic performances against low competition. OOC wins are merely memories of the distant past. I will not support this and won't make a big deal over that since I am only one person, but I really do want to be able to support a 4 decade passion at a higher profile than we will get with this group, but for that to happen, I know that means NT leaders will need to make some wholesale changes in the NT athletic department.

JUST RESPONDING TO A POOR UNFORTUNATE & MISGUIDED UNT ALUM WHO IS LIVING A MEAN GREEN FOOTBALL DELUSION (and who did sorta' use part of my moniker in his subject title) But H-towngreen, do I need to repost (as you say) "whatever I was talking about" so that some of you who have your noses buried up DD's, well, uh, (I'll say just say his mediocrity) so even a few of you can understand loud and clear? (You don't live around some of those Houston area "air polluting" chemical plants down there, now do you)? Answer this question for a growing number of us H-towngreen: Who do we have on this present NT athletic staff that any other NCAA D1-A school (outside the SBC--insert a Norm Hitzhes giggle) would ever be interested in hiring away from us? If anyone out there says none (because H-towngreen, I think you probably might say they're all bound for Big 12 schools; but if the rest of you say "none", then why the hell do we continue to keep them on the UNT payroll and honor bottom of the barrell performance with this (seemedly at UNT only) phenomena called, uh, extended contracts for under .500 career coaches? Some of you who have your noses buried up DD's, well..............anyway, please enlighten the rest of us who can actually read (with our UNT educations) and can actually decide for ourselves what our 2005 NT Football Media Guides are really telling us concerning the cold blatant stark truth of a DD-led NT football program. Have A Nice Day, Fellow Texans!

Inbreeding, eh? So that's the reason every varsity coach we have a UNT (and who have been there plenty of time to make a difference) are all under .500 (save our lady's soccer program). Thanks for someone finally giving me some answers to this piece of crap athetic program that some of you will continue to throw good money after bad. They don't get another penny from this alum until they start cleaning house (which is a project way over-due). MG61, I was always taught to respect my elders so (with you) thats exactly what I will do; but you might want to make a trip up to Denton this year so you can see some of this firsthand.

The strange logic of all this are those who are exhibiting such a deafening silence and acceptance of all this bottom of the barrell athletic program that has (last count) only one "non revenue" producing sport whose coach is over .500 in career wins and losses. If that is what you like for your alma mater's athletic program, then you all should be quite pleased because that is exactly what you got in Denton. The strange logic of all this are those who are still on the UNT payroll who have not produced, show no indication that they will (significantly) with all the time they've had to prove such and if given another 8 years will probably have a W/L record similar (or worse) than your Lady Eagles BB program's coach who can only beat the (real) sisters of the poor to pad her own wins column (which is still way under .500 with "only" 17 years to get over .500. A coach could reinvent themselves many time over in 17 years, but has our? Seems to many of us that we have still too many who are quite comfortable with al this overall losing which may be the saddest part of all this not withstanding a bunch of non-UNT educated outsiders on our payroll who will leave UNT and Denton at the drop of a hat (except no one ever seems to want to ever hire UNT athletic personnel away from us for some strange illogical reasons, now do they? So the "strange logic" in all this all started with a simple question to FFR as to why someone who has shown a great propensity for the want of high standards of athletic performance at UNT now seems so accepting of all this tommyrot of a college football program all of a suddden. I am not calling anyone out at all with this as I just asked a simple question and am just curoius; and who knows, there may be a viable and reasonable answer to my question to Rick (except I just cannot fathom what that would possibly be). It is anyone's perrogative to follow whoever the hell they want to follow at UNT, but Sagarin Ratings, the now realistic recrutiing results of the last 2-3 years of which losses last Fall to FAU, Tulsa and La Tech tells us all that our recruiting hasn't been too successful at all at UNT in recent years AND NOW EVEN TODAY WE HAVE.................. .................the Dallas Mornning News "AREA" 100 of which NORTH TEXAS is not listed one time on any DFW area recruit and if anything should tell us about our standing in our own Metroplex neighborhood with Texas HS seniors, that (alone) should tell us all who who call themselves Mean Green and say they want excellence at UNT (in every area of our school); anyway, that DMN Top Area 100 list and its shortcomings as far as we are concerned should loudly say to all in the Mean Green Nation that we are not doing too well in this season's recruiting wars. Many of you on GMG.com have for years shown less than what one might call any semblance of excitement for what some of you even coined as Dickey Ball, but now a hardy handful of you seem suddenly so accepting of all this and seemedly don't want to fight City Hall, ie, our UNT decision-makers on any part of this? What we all say now with all this DD business may have marked influence come this time next year, since I don't think we have NT leaders that are hardly made of the right stuff to take care of this problem now. So we still plod on with undisciplined Dickey Ball from a coach who shows moreso each day what his future lot in college football really will be and that will be the very same role his daddy and Craig Helwig delivered him from (while delivering to North Texas alums and Mean Green fan their boy all nicely wrapped up in a package) and the role their influence (not anyof our influences for damn sure) was Darrell Dickey's role as that of a journeyman assistant college football coach. I'm sure his daddy can just as easiloy get his son an assistant job somewhere else just as easily as he influenced fellow Kansas State connection Craig Helwig to hand deliver his son to us. Yep, ol' shooting fish in the SBC barrell Darrell D himself! (Any of you know how many SBC schools were playing 1-AA football in the last decade and that also includes the MUTS)? The strange logic of all this is what has been coming down from UNT powers that be who are force-feeding all this continued mediocrity down each and everone of all our throats and those of you who are still so accepting of all this bullshit is even just as sad as the performance we are getting from NT Athletic staffers. In a perfect world, a future new UNT Athletic Director will come in and clean house (like many of you told me UNT's last 2 AD's should have done); because the house we have now is pretty well dirty, in shambles and is a house that shows no sign of those who are presently residing in it that they will be the ones who will be the key players in getting our house cleaned up. If I were a present NT athletic staffer, I probably wouldn't be planning on buying a house in Denton, Texas, because there are many NT Exes who are not going to lay down on all this this time around, that is, give up until some key changes are made from the top or at least until most of this present group in the NT athletic department have their next jobs at (most likely) a Murray State-type school (since we know few schools above the level of UNT ever seem to be looking toward Denton, Texas, in the last decade or so). Have A Nice Day

] LOL! Out of due respect for our group, Phil, I editted that part!

] Funny stuff, BA, but you really don't need to read my posts if they are going to make you get so tense and feel insecure about our place with all our other SBC friends in low places. LOL! ................................................................................... FIRST OF ALL I WILL SAY THIS: Some of you who have been bitching about DD and Dickey Ball at tailgating events and other NT get-togethers for the last few years, where the hell are all of you now? Come on, show us some 'nads with all this. ................................................................................... But once you and a few others have DD (or one of his assistants or now even one of our uh, "press box celebrities" arriving in "your" section at Fouts next Fall and slaps off yalls "green smudged" glasses (along with some of their I'm most assured "very" customer service oriented comments---------NOT), yall can (right along with the rest) enjoy that 0 & 6 start next football season; but please do watch our for yalls boy Bobby Ray who seems to have some serious man-love for Dickey Ball (not the man, even I won't be that ridiculous) because he will probably give the ex Kansas St. Wildcat (who "very easily swung the NT job due to his Kansan St. connection) anyway, our Napoleon of the North will give DD yet another 1 one year contract extension (that will insure that our UNT System experts will have yet another under. 500 varsity coach on a lifetime contract in the NT Athletic Department. "You All Like That?" <>*<> Jeez, some of us really never knew what a nice retirement center for the "not so gifted" we were running up there in Denton. Our present NT administration and other key leaders are really revolutionizing NCAA D1-A administration with all their new concepts of "rewarding the losing" and having no expectation for them to do anything but............lose...........or win against some no one ever heard about 2 decades ago, ie, our jnfamous SBC/Bottom 10 (of which the SMU Mustangs would have won last Fall had they been in our league). Anyeay, I really do agree with you 2, BA and Emmitt, there really is much humor with all this and I guess (to some) I''ve supplied some of that humor with all this (while I have improved my keyboard WPM skills tremendously; BUT...............lets just see who is going to get the last big (belly) laugh when this time next year many of you, too, will be at your own wit's end with all this while cussing NT leadership who will have tied us to Dickey Ball for the next 2 UNT administrations (or even the next 2 U.S. presidential terms). FWIW, this present UNT administration wouldn't know Big Time NCAA D1-A athletics (or the kind of personnel who can deliver such) if it came up and bit them in their "low expection" a$$e$. Others on the UNT payroll need to hang it up too as they broadcast to all this mediocrity and think we really have it going on up there. I'd bet even their own radio ratings are going down right alongside DD's under .500 "8 year" record in "not so" Mean Green Country. Theron J. Fouts really has to be turning over in his grave with all this on-going and non-stop crapola of "no or low expectations" at all from our present (and hopefully soon to be gone) NT leaders. Even some of our alums/fans stuck in the muck and mire of this adminstration's SBC/Bottom 10 mediocrity can't see the forest for the trees anymore. That part is not funny at all, but (in fact) is even kinda' sad. It's sad what some UNT alums will accept (athletically) on an annual basis and just act like "all is well on the northern front." It's almost like watching sheep being led to slaughter--one just following all the others to the slaughter house oblivious to whats going on around them. It's the blind leading the blind. I see no humor in that at all for any of our fellow NT Exes no matter what era they were students. YAWNnnnnnnnnn....................so yall just go ahead and enjoy yall$ inve$tment (although my guess is half on GMG.com don't give one red penny or buy season tickets but do give us free HSO's about all this). Actually, there is an upside to much of this as many will be saving some ca$h next Fall because we are not going play any semblance of role in helping to enable Bobby Ray to keep his little "low or no expectations" Mean Green party to continue. He will see a difference in more ways than none. And many of us bet Bobby Ray will under$tand that part when he and his personal selection of a chancellor, Judge "non PHD" Lee Jackson will (the strong guess of many) see donations go $outh across the board at UNT. So if "here today/gone tomorrow OR "happy today/unhappy tomorrow" UNT AD Rick Villarreal doesn't schedule one of those 3 "body bag" schools mentioned in a MG Report for this next football season, he will surely need to get good ol' Mattress Mac to make up for $ome budget $hortfalls next year (and for years to come). You do all remember good ol' MM who has himself attempted to hold our school hostage with his "I'll support UNT as long as DD is there" statement? Hey Mattress Mac? A question for even you? Where the hell did you play your college football and get your degree? A HINT: Think on this.................Hayden Fry? What a sad statement that (alone) is and I will say this once again: Only at North Texas, folks, only at North Texas............................... Yet there is one thing even Matrress Mac cannot do; that is, he cannot fill 2 or 3 sections of Fouts Field for the 2006 (and beyond) football seasons; neither can Lee Jackson and Bobby Ray, but of course they will be sitting in those "world class" Fouts Field luxury suites as it is. BTW, next time yall see your new good buddy, Bobby Ray, ask him where his MG football season tickets were for the 4 decades preceeding his appointment to the NT BOR's? To this day, no one (I know) remembers seeing that man at NT football games or seeing his name listed in the old Mean Green Eagle Club listings of donors in all those decades past. He seems to have been M.I.A, that is, before Gov. Perry gave him his big "earthly" reward! A FAIR ENOUGH QUESTION THAT A FEW OF YOU HAVE ALREADY ASKED: A few (of which I've had 2 or 3 to email this question already) as to why I would continue to even care (as they for damn sure don't anymore) or would post non-stop on the subject of our "would be" NCAA D1-A head football coach who continues to show all that his is (still) nothing more than a journeyman assistant football coach? MY ANSWER TO THE FEW WHO HAVE ASKED: I am going to post (as I know others are doing in other avenues and ways of communication) and raise hell with UNT leadership or state officials that they even have to eventually answer to and will encourage others (who have not been too deeply "affected" by Dickey Ball & DD mediocrity) to do the same until strategic changes are made that will give longtime alums and Mean Green fans something to be proud about once again in a high profile sort of way. Are you all really proud of all this happening now? If so, please list all the reasons why? Are you even proud of this upcoming recruiting class that will probably even be equalled or exceeded by schools in the old NCAA D1-AA Southland Conference? Is going to Mean Green BBQ's and tailgating (which yall could do any Saturday of the year BTW) really going to be enough? Is that really going to do it for some of you? If so, that, too is also kinda' sad; but all that isn't going to to do it for many of us other longtime fans and supporters of NT and I will guarantee you that. SO..............SEND BOBBY RAY AND DARRELL DICKEY ON A ONE WAY TICKET PERMAMENT VACATION BEFORE THEY HAVE US PLAYING NCAA D2 FOOTBALL (or no football at all). Is that pretty funny to some of yall, too? OR should I ask...........Do You All Like That?

Whoa Nellie! Then you all go to the River Oaks Steak House, LongJim? IMO, the best steak in Fort Worth and very inexpensive as well. Of course, out here in Weatherford, the Mesquite Grill (off FW Highway) is sure hard to beat.

Hey SE-66, Baylor comes across "too Baptist" except to the almot 3 million Baptist who do live in the state of Texas! LOL! But from stories I've heard thru the years, there are some pretty liberal PK's (preacher's kids) who go to Baylor U and those being the ones who have left their most conservative family nests for the first times in their lives. (Of course, some of us Methodists are the ones who taught them how to dance and drink those spirits of the vine.

Well, if NT leaders start hearing more echos than crowd noise at Fouts Field, I would assume even they are probably smart enough to know when things need to be changed or fixed. In my heart of hearts, I really don't think we have a group of NT leaders who really want to burn the barn down to kill a mouse over all this with some key NT athletic personnel. After all, I am sure they don't won't such things (echoes at Fouts) to happen under their watch as the high visibility of intercollegiate athletics at UNT still seems to get more media coverage than even our NT College of Music's One O'Clock Lab Band. NT leaders (I presume) have to be concerned with their own legacy they leave behind in Denton once the are no longer involved (and we see them disappear into the woodwork like most other ex BOR's seem to always do). AND FWIW, I now know of many who have no plans (whatsoever) of supporting Dickey Ball at all next season (or any afterwards) outside next Fall's SMU game (and maybe not even showing for that game). I think this is more serious than NT leaders (who seem to be the most un-attached group to its constituency I've seen in about 4 decades at UNT) and who really seem to be most unconcerned about any of this; but I think they will soon get concerned. And who knows where all this will end with our NT's top leader's obvious lack of vision for high profile football or athletic success in Denton. Maybe they will one day wake up to the reality of their poor management as well as their (even poorer) decision-making as they've annually rubber-stamped mediocrity in the NCAA D1-A Bottom Quadrant & the SBC/Bottom 10; and and lets not even get started with their handling of our most expen$ive (to our main campus in Denton) pink elephant, ie, their present UNT-Dallas failure. Has that campus even hit 2,000 students with all the time its had to do such? Does anyone know just how short a drive it is to UTA for south Dallas county college bound students? What about some of them even making the drive to Denton to go to college--what a concept that is, eh? This whole idea was a complete waste of money for us the Texas taxpayers, IMHO. Nevertheless, with all this present group of NT leader's tunnel-visioned lack of seeing what their declsions are now producing for UNT both short-term and long term with NT varsity athletics (specifically football), lets just see who wins the war with all this when all the dust finally settles (and all the shi&) has ceased to run downhill. Only problem with that is we get stuck with what gets left behind while others move on. Since we are a public university and are supposed to have access to many things concering our "public" university, can someone find and link the details of DD's contract or even link his full contract to this forum? Sometimes there are loopholes that can be used to abbreviate longterm contracts and I think DD has some of those if what another fellow "very high profile" fellow NT Ex of ours says is true (and I have no reason to doubt him or think other-wise). I was at a football banquet back in the 1990's when College & Pro Football Hall of Famer (and NT Ex) Mean Joe Greene was the featured speaker. He very seriously challenged NORTH TEXAS to aim its football ship toward eventually seeking an NCAA D1-A national championship; not the kind of national championship Texas State told the Bush kid he could be part of (1-AA) that caused us to lose yet another recruit to another, uh, 1-AA school. Yet one has to wonder where Mean Joe Greene stands on all this now.

MG61, I think a review of this upcoming recruiting class would be a very sensible thing to do & with the one who would be doing the review being one who would have no connection to anyone on the UNT payroll. Fact of the matter is that whoever we sign next month will most likely stand a high chance of being coached by a completely different coaching staff than the one they were recruited by. STILL PROBABLY A LITTLE KNOWN FACT TO SOME BUT............both of DD's 2 predecessors, ie, ex NT head football coaches Dennis Parker and Matt Simon were both released from their contracts at UNT almost immediately following each of their last recruiting hauls in MG Country (several weeks after football season had ended, of course). So this has been done before (and even at UNT believe it or not).

Why do these recruiting lists "don't mean a jar of warm spit" (to quote ex U.S. VP under FDR/ Cactus Jack Garner) to many of us anymore during this era of NT football? Because whoever we sign will still need to get good (positive) coaching, need to be developed in the weight room as well as their talents being advanced post their HS careers, need to be taught (and shown) how to respect those who do show up for Mean Green football games, need to be taught how to become good campus citizens while respecting all curfews...........and need to be taught discipline on and off the playing field.

I'm trying to find on Harry's rules of ettiquette on this board where anyone is forced to read anyone elses post no matter what the hell the length of a post is. I don't particularly like the TV show American Idol, so you know what, I don't turn my TV channel on the station that shows the program. As far as GMG.com is concerned, I learned a long time ago you can't make all the people happy all the time (nor do I try). good-ken, you just hang in there with your Dickey Ball and you may even see UNT become a "basketball only" school in due time because no one I know from the University of North Texas (and I do know quite a few) will support this disguised and veiled success of a football program too much longer (or even at all at this junction); especially with all the radio broadcasted crapola DD has dished out about our school and its alums the last 5 years. DD is a genuine PR nightmare for those who will try to sell season tickets next summer. Also, with DD's (obvious) unhappiness with his "verbal" body langugage on those Metroplex radio airwaves and what seems to be his general unhappiness of his being in Denton at all. I guess all this was really not what Craig Helwig and his dad, Jim Dickey, had in mind for their journeyman assistant football coach and fellow Kansas State connection; as well as former "1 year" SMU offensive coordinator. Also, with those 2 KSU Connections pulling off this hiring coup in Denton while we North Texas Exes and Mean Green fans sat around with our fingers up our nostrils allowing this hiring coup to even take place in the first place. But what the hell, how were we to know that before we could even utter the words "selection committee of those who would be around for the next 3 head footbal coaches after DD is gone"; anyway, how were we to know that Helwig would already have DD signed to a contract which prompted most from the Mean Green Nation to say: "Darrell Who?" Yet, good-ken, are you really happy with bowl teams that never get close to Top 25 rankings, never beat OOC schools while also losing to 1-AA schools in our bowl years (hint: more disguised & veiled success?) and those schools (Troy U with a new stadium, FAU who we have yet to beat in 2 attempts and a U of South Florida football program that was only *5 years old (2 losses vs USF) with 2 of the aforementioned schools who are now in the SBC and going forward with their programs while what we have really been doing of late is now rearing its ugly head? *What is it with these 5 year old Fla. football programs (USF, FAU, FIU) that seems to be eating our "almost 100" year old football program's lunch? Just as many of you, I also know quite a few of the registered members on this board who are just not going to be fooled by another DD recruiting class and whose last few classes were not even of the quality as to where they were able beat (or even be competitive) against Tulsa (our worst home loss in history) or La Tech this last football season. And with many of this goup of NT Exes/MG fans I am now aware will not for long continue to $upport a DD-led football program at UNT (and much of this not only because of DD but also because of all this confrontational nature coming from NT athletic staffers toward its very cu$tomer$) All this is probably more serious than I think Bobby Ray would ever want to realize, but since he really doesn't consult with those he'd like to see fill Fouts Field (which a school led by a "private school" educated chancellor would moreso take on such a mode of elitist attitude and operation of non-communication to the masses at a Texas public university while communicating to a hardy handful of elitists (who will hardly fill our football stadium BTW). Still we have our Napoleon of the North (who no one I know on this forum ever saw him at Mean Green football games for 4 decades preceeding his appointment by Governor Perry); anyway, we have this guy who is single-handely force-feeding to NT Exes and MG fans (who deserve much, much more) all this SBC/Bottom 10 "nowhere even close to Top 25" football and I guess he will just continue to play his fiddle while things are burning down all around him? So we have all this tumbling down "Humpty Dumpty-style" with BRay who will soon enough see things from fan$ that will most likely cause even him to have 2'nd thoughts as to why he vetoed RV's desire to see our football program take on new direction with higher profile results in mind. With such a new direction that would elevate us to a level to where we could actually beat (or at least be competitive) with OOC schools on our annual football schedule and get Mean Green football out of the Bottom Quadrant of NCAA D1-A. So in essence and in many ways DDickey has made his bed hard in Denton with his (5 years running) radio broadcasted criticisms of his very employer, his employer's facilties and his employer's alums/fans and now he is just going to have to sleep in that bed (for whatever time Bobby Ray and our Chancellor determines that to be OR...........when those 2 start hearing more echoes at Fouts Field than crowd noise AND the kind of crowd noise coming from NT Exex/Mean Green fans who really want to be (once again) proud of their their alma mater's football program and the upwardly mobile direction that it could be going. So.................."You All Like That?' This famous oft' used quote after a "Dickey Moment" from our Mean Green Radio Network boys mean't to (sarcastically) put NT Exes and Mean Green fans down). And while on this very subject, anyone else see this continuing trend from several on this present NT staff of putting our NT Exes and MG fans down and doing so with such arrogance? The arrogance of a staff who still only fills half of Fouts Field after 4 bowl games as well? Hellsbells! All this NT fan bashing started happening publicly for all to see in the stands of Fouts Field last Fall to boot. So when has "customer bashing" become en vogue at NCAA D1-A schools who really need many more fans in the stands than we are getting in Denton? I see a whole bunch of people at UNT who could use a fresh new beginning and some new scenery because (to paraphrase eulesseagle with some variation) I think others have reached their apex at UNT, too, other than just Darrell Dickey. <>*<> And would someone of an official capacity outside the UNT athletic department please act like you give a damn to those who you want to $upport all thi$? After all, the buck does stop at your desks, right?

This is true, ipEagle, but the thing that concerns many of us is how we seem (more than ever) to be up against so many 1-AA schools (and even the Midwestern State types) for this NT recruiting class. In fact, I can never remember in 30 plus years of following Mean Green football recruting when we have been a D1-A school of having so many non-D1-A schools that we are fighting for recruits. This becomes even more bothersome when we all sort of discovered this last Fall that we have not even been recruiting head to head or ahead of (as some of us had previously thought) of the Tulsa's or the La Tech's in the the last few years of recruiting classes. And I think we all realize that most of this 2006 NT recruiting class (such as any of our past recruiting classes) will be redshirted except for our rather large number of JUCO transfers we seem to have.

Ditto, SE-66... With great haste, the state of Texas needs to proceed with what my late father's employer of 37 years (Dow Chemical Company, Freeport) first built in the early 1960's (a salt water conversion plant) and start getting ready to spend a helluva' lot of money to pipe Gulf of Mexico waters (converted into fresh water) to the norther part of Texas (and to the eastern and western parts of Texas as well). This will undoubtedly be the future for water in Texas; that is, for Texans to keep their reservoirs/lakes full in order to handle the continued population explosion in the future and what will enable all our new future fellow Texans (and ourselves) to have water. I cannot remember in my 50 plus years in this state of seeing such a drought as we're in now and it doesn't look good for Spring rains, either, according to the weather experts; and of course, we can forget any significant Summer rains here in this part of the Lone Star state.

Lidds located in SW Fort Worth's Hulen Mall had a fairly decent selection of NT caps with one partiular nice one with the "son of worm" eagle logo on the front of the cap and a side panel "son of worm" eagle (in kelly green) on this cap as well-----really was sharp looking IMO. The manager at Hulen Mall's "Fanz" store after telling him how many more prospective buyers that the MG Nation would be compared to "all those Oregen State DFW alums out there" (after seeeing a nice selectioin of OSU caps) he (sincerely) said he would then order some NT gear. The young manager was from Montana so he just didn't know too much about UNT nor where it was located. He knew more about it after I left his store, though. gmg!

No, untgirl04, (responding to your last sentence) you need about one more page of wordage (even if you have to repeat yourself on the same thing about 2 dozen more times). Come on people, we've all been told what the deal most likely is with Rick V. He apparently is the odd man out among the trilogy of Bobby Ray, Darrell Dickey and himself. He tried to fire DD when any other NCAA D1-A athletic director would have done the same and been expected by its alums to do such after the ULM game 5 years ago. And if I recall, about 99.9% of registered members of this board (now almost at 2,000) were behind RV on that decision: THEN ENTERS BOBBY RAY, who had appointed himself as our co-athletic director: Bobby Ray got a sudden rush of "self importance" and vetoed that firing. What if Rick V would have had someone in mind back then to take DD's place who would have gone to bowl games in the early years of the SBC yet would have had our Mean Green bowl teams also ranked in the Top 25? Personally, I think Rick V (overall) been the most successful of the three, but I think if he sticks around we could still stand some more significant "Big Donor type fundraising" and Game Week promotions that reaches out to large civic, school, church, etc, etc, etc, type groups. After all, folks, Denton County is now larger "population-wise" than the city of New Orleans was before Hurricane Katrina almost destroyed their fine city. NOTE: Guess what Denton County now needs with such a population is its on TV station? But if Rick V has been treated like the redheaded, freckle faced bastard step-son by DD and our Napoleon of the North, would any of you really want to hang around and try to work in that kind of (most likely) hostile environment? Even moreso, if Rick V were to leave, what kind of true, legitimate "NCAA D1-A" AD talent would want to come work in such an environment? And please, good Lord, if RV were to leave Denton please do not let our long-standing "less than succesful" administration hiring authorities hire anyone from within our present athletic staff to replace him. By that time, UNT will need a complete infusion of fresh new blood, ideas and athletic employees who have not alienated half the Mean Green Nation from their own alma mater.

buff64, thanks for that most interesting (at least to me) info on the late Wayne J. Parker. Do you know by chance what his dad's name was? I've met one of Quanah's great-great grandsons on a couple occasions over near the Fort Worth Stockyards at an Indian pow-wow and found him to be very cordial. We had some most interesting discussions to say the least. .................................................................................................. COWBOYS VS INDIANS @ FORT PARKER IN THE EARLY 1950's............. My late mother told me this story for years since I was about 3 years old when this event took place but we always sorta' got a little laugh out of it thru the years. Anyway, all families who were direct descendents of those inside Fort Parker when it was attacked by about 500 Commanches and Kiowa Indians were going to have a "first ever" reunion/covered dish picnic (to be held) inside the fort back in the early 1950's. In fact, the Indian Parkers (since there were also the Caucasian Parkers in the original story) had also been (graciously) invited to this reunion although none of their descendents (of Chief Peta Nocona and his white wife, Cynthia Ann Parker) would have been inside the fort at the May 19, 1836, massacre since it was their ancestors who were doing all the massacre-ing. Anyway, for all those who would be able to come inside the fort for this historic reunion/picnic there were special name tags sent in advance to all elgible families. Well, long story short, one of our Plummer relatives forgot to bring all our name tags on the day of the reunion so when our group enterered the old restored fort (w/o name tags on) and put our dishes on the tables and got in line to fill our plates, many of the Indian Parkers became most visibly miffed thinking we were breaking in on "their" party! LOL! (Nevermind that their group had not only kidnapped Cynthia Ann but also my great-great grandpa's wife, Rachel Plummer and their son (& my namesake) James, back on May 19, 1836). Well, some of our good white Parker friends assured the Indian Parkers that we were (indeed) a part of the original 1836 event and were eventually able to settle the Indian Parkers down over all this (who I presume were almost ready to go on the warpath all over again over some more blue eyed devils being on "their" land). So (yes in deedy) there was almost a 2'nd Massacre at Fort Parker back in the early 1950's. My late mother could tell this story much better than I have posted it, but some of you bothering to read this at all are probably just glad that you have actually read one of my post in less than 5 minutes! gmg!

shaft, we finally agree on something, my posts are ridiculously long epistles. I think the last one (now on page 2 of GMG.com on MG61's thread titled " Should Cajun official fly to Denton" ) was my longest post ever on GMG.com. Took me 3 days to correct all the spelling. It has from my understanding also pissed off a few (what else is new with that?) that I do seem to express my gut feelings about a 4 decade long passion of mine--mainly Mean Green football. Guess they'll get over all that----I always do. And MG11/MG61/Deep Green/SilverE, thanks for the concern. AND................Ol' Chief Quanah Parker's ghost has been seen at the Stockyards Hotel vicinity located at Fort Worths Main & Exchange where he actually stayed one night while helping Burkburnett and gang dedicate the Cowtown Coliseum early last century; but the old chief's ghost has pretty well left this Texas blue eyed devil and the part my ancestors played in the Fort Parker/Cynthia Ann Parker/Rachel Plummer/The Seachers part of this story pretty well alone. After all, ex U.S. President T.R. even recongnized that Quanah was one smart Indian! gmg!

THIS IS ACTUALLY 2 POSTS IN ONE...........TAKE 2 DAYS TO READ IT IF YOU READ THIS AT ALL! DAFFYNITIONS.................Is bashing really the correct choice of a word when describing the actions of a head football coach who has (actually) put new meaning in the word bashing by annually criticizing his own employer, showing unhappiness of even having be around his employer or its supporters (except now that he's had a horrifically terrible 2005 football campaign and with him probably thinking his attitudes and actions in better times which were tolerated then might now not be so tolerated but rather such non-stop negativity will now be magnified? But still we have one of our higest profile UNT employees who gets to remain on the payroll (with an overall W/L record or no key wins over true mainstream NCAA D1-A football programs that sorta' suggests that a complaining employee (perhaps) should be accomodated with his apparent need to be somewhere else than his present work environment? Do any of you keep complainers on your payroll for you who have been hiring (and firing) authorities? Many of us who have had that role (whether now or in the past) would usually accomodate such an employee's attitude and one who seems to not like his work environment (by his actions and words) and as soon as we could we would allow such an employee to have his golden opportunity to go enjoy his life at another work environment. Also, many would terminate such an employee before he brought down other employees to his level of thinking, influencing many with his low expectation with our company and to keep him from having even one more minute to influence the key component in all this............namely, uh, the paying CUSTOMER$? Yet @ UNT we have rewarded on an annual basis an employee who has bashed our school and its supporters "non stop" on the DFW radio airwaves for 5 plus years running and almost at every turn. So some now want to use the "bashing card" when many of our alums are just merely questioning such unusual behavior from a department at UNT that some of our past NT leadership have even called the "picture window of our university?" So just what is it that we at UNT show in our picture window for all to see? Most others in NCAA D1-A would see thru the smoke and mirrors and call what we've had (7 out of 8 years) stark mediocrity. Yet some of our "accepting of anything dished down to them from present NT leadership" have the audacity to want to $upport (how many of that group one might even question really even does that part) and call such criticsim, uh, bashing? Just how many alums from other Texas NCAA D1-A schools do you know who would not have some comments about such activities from one of your most highest profile employees any Texas university can have? So (once again) is bashing the right choice of word with all this? Actually, I believe it is the right choice of word as far as one is concerned and he's made (at our expense) a nice living while having been allowed to do this, too. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< So why don't we just volunteer to help our Cajun friends out and just send them UNT Co-Athletic Director and NT BOR Chairman Bobby Ray as their new man and see how long any coach they might have under .500 for almost a decade gets to hang around while beating the Sisters of the Poor and losing to 1-AA schools even during bowl years. (I can't believe I am having to even say such things as I obviously referring to our own alma mater). I am most assured a ULaLa AD B. Ray would all but insure that the Rajun Cajuns would keep their place in the SBC/Bottom 10 with his superb knowledge of the in's and out's of NCAA D1-A Inter-Collegiate football. Just look where we've (realistically) been for most of the time of his leadership in Denton? Top 25? Not even close nor will we get close under present conditions as he keeps rubber-stamping all this on an annual basis; even sadder is how most NT Exes know in their heart of hearts that Darrell Dickey is not the man who will deliver us out of the bottom quadrant of NCAA D1-A (SBC/Bottom 10) but their apparent reasons for wanting DD to get to continue for even a 9'th seasons is-------because we owe DD another year. Come on now, do we of the University of North Texas really owe a known habitual year in and year out NT-basher anything, folks? Would your own bosse allowed you to hang around under similar (realistic) performances? How many of your own fellow NT Exes won't even come to Mean Green football games anymore because DD is being allowed to give us Dickey Ball and most unique radio performances? I can tell many who I know have (silently) given up on all this andI can guarantee you that that list will grow come this next September. Hellsbells! Even our own AD is trying to get the hell out of all this quagmire of a athletic program that shows even more signs of runnning further-------amuck. ............................................................................................................ BOBBY RAY, ARE YOU LISTENING? WELL, YOU NEED TO BE LISTENING TO ALL THIS BEFORE YOUR CONTINUED RUBBER-STAMPING OF ALL THIS CREATES ONE HELL OF AN ECHO CHAMBER AT FOUTS FIELD ON MEAN GREEN GAME DAYS IN 2006 (and beyond). FWIW, even that part has already begun, sir. ............................................................................................................. So do we really owe such an employee one more year? Are some of you into the pain thing at UNT, what do they call it, S & M? I do know we are going to be into S&MU the 2'nd game of next season (at our house) and they are ready to hand us our head on a silver platter. Yet some of you say we owe one of the worse ambassadors UNT has ever had on its payroll who dishes out his stuff on the DFW radio airwaves ONE MORE YEAR? This is just no longer the NORTH TEXAS I used to know who had alums with some semblance of self-respect, pride and a spirit of upward mobility in NCAA Division One, but many who are now involved with some of this kind of "stinkin' thinkin' they've allowed the BIGGEST STINKER IN UNT history to influence even them with his spirit of "low expectation" and total acceptance of SBC/Bottom 10 success or (now) shall we say non-success? And don't give me this Bobby Ray thing of "he led the way with this novel idea of building our "Athletic Center" business because what the hell else were we going to build at UNT to keep our hand in play at the NCAA Division One table-- an outhouse? FWIW, SWT, ie, Texas State U has had their AC for about 4 or 5 years now. Seems we have other facilities to build at UNT that will only help us hang onto our NCAA D1-A dreams. <>*<> These are not luxuries we are building at the Mean Green Athletic Village, fellow Exes, but rather bare minimum neccessities so that we can even stay ahead of some NCAA 1-AA schools (such as are in the Southland Conference, FWIW, you know like, Texas State U)? Even sadder is how many are buying into all this lower quadrant of the 119 member NCAA D1-A style of football that some of you coined as "Dickey Ball" several years ago; and a level that the last 8 years should sorta' be telling all that that is what we can continue to expect. HAS DD SHOWN ANY PROPENSITY TO CHANGE THINGS THAT ARE SIMPLY NOT WORKING? I don't see a magic recruiting year happening even now that will change any of this in one more football season from what we've been seeing or reading of late on recruting reports. And where will all the magic come from that will suddenly turn our NT defensive line into a, uh, 2006 OOC schedule or even a 2006 football season "SBC world-beater?" Does FAU Coach Howard Schnellenberger (whose offense ran thru our NT defensive line like crap thru a goose) need to be so fore-warned by some of you who completely forget about Dickey Ball and non-stop radio bashings every time during this time of year? And don't forget that DD gets his 3'rd attempt to beat FAU in 2006--but for damn sure, in Mean Green Country we surely don't even bash that poor record of performance against a 1-AA school that only started its football football program 6 years ago, now do we? Many on this forum I predict this very time next year will wonder why we so unneccessarily wasted a most important year that could have been used to raise NORTH TEXAS football out of the doldrums of Dickey Ball and this SBC/Bottom 10 malaise that we now have AND...............all the "we po', proud and our backs are always against the wall at UNT" crapola we've heard now for 8 years runnning (and 99.9% of all that on the Metroplex radio airwaves to boot). Question: Any of you know any other NCAA D1-A school whose leadership would tolerate what has made many of you extremely pissed the last 8 years (while we still suck wind with an under .500 in "8" years head football coach. Many are laughing at us while they pass us by (and one DFW school whose colors are Red and Blue are probably at that top of that list). BTW, they are our 2'nd game of next Fall's football season and they beat 3 (almost) 4 bowl teams last Fall. Get ready for that one at Fouts Field, folks, because it ain't going be pretty. And while on the subject of SMU, some say only beating them (1 & 10?) will save DD's job for an unprecedent 10'th year of under .500? Well in that case, the case is now closed on how far all this has fallen in Mean Green Country. Only at NORTH TEXAS, folks...............only at NORTH TEXAS... ................................................................................................................ POST II: UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS @ DALLAS (and more of the same) Actually, Mr. Ray and his bud, Chancellor Lee Jackson could better serve the UNT System by leaving athletics to athletics personnel and then they (sometimes during this century) can then have more time to try to get our system's pink elephant, ie, the UNT-Dallas campus to one day become a free-standing university; a project that they are way behind by the way. The Texas Legislature is getting tired of all this with the UNT System, too, as I understand it. They keep having to stretch the rules for our UNT System officials to help them with our pink elephant campus (that presently and will in the future take monies away from our main campus and FWIW, that doesn't take a rocket scientist (or a DD supporter) to figure that out. Key Question: If big monies are suddenly raised for UNT-Dallas by UNT fundraisers from Greater Dallas contributors, why didn't our UNT-Denton fundraisers get even a portion of that 10, 20 or so years ago? South Dallas County officials rumor has it has (for awhile) been having "legitimate" second thoughts in their choosing UNT (over the Texas Tech and TAMU Systems) for this south Dallas county 4 year university project. Any NT Ex/NT alum or NT novice would have been able to tell south Dallas-based Texas State Senator Royce West before they made their choice that UNT did not have the re$ource$ or overall financial endowment (and we still don't BTW) to pull off this south Dallas County pet university project of his. IMO, these are just not the best of times at UNT, and things seemed to really start going south (as far as some of us are concerned) the day Dr. Norval Pohl announced his intention to relinquish his role as NT president. The wrong people at UNT are resigning and we are (as always) being stuck with those who will stay forever on the UNT payroll and the state of Texas teat while preventing this 32,000 enrollment university from going forward. If you ain't going forward, folks, then that usually means your going backwards. If there were ever a time to recall a Board of Regent (if that would be possible), maybe this is the time for our North Texas Exes group to take on that as a worthy project before our NT BOR Chairman, Mr. Bobby Ray, has our NT football program playing at an intramural flag football level and has DD on a 10 year extension (still giving him an opportunity to reach .500 in wins/losses in Denton). Any fool or jestor could look at (here we go again) the NT Football Media Guide and (hopefully) figure out for themselves as to where this football program has (realistically) been and where it is going for yet another (wasted) year. NOTE: If you think beating your sister in tennis matches for 4 years in a row is such a galliant venture in which to brag about, then you might think the same of our 4 bowl games as we were beating the SBC/Bottom 10/"Sisters" of the Poor to do (basically) the same thing. Get real with all this before you get completely lulled to a deep sleep (while others who are benefitting from all this silently chuckle with our naivety in Mean Green Country). And for those of you who think DD to be the next Vince Lombardy (pleezzzzzzzzz), do yall really think he will beat (just out of 1-AA classification or are they really?) Florida Atlantic University in (only) our head football coach's 3'rd try this Fall? Myself and many others on this board and beyond do not think that will happen--chock it up as another wasted year of disguised success. Hellsbells! DD didn't beat FAU the year he went to his, uh, "4'th" bowl game in a row, either, now did he? So come on some of you who are still living in Wonderland and who this time each year seem to completely forget about Dickey Ball as you think he's out there recruiting Parade All Americans; so get your heads out of your a$$e$ before Bobby Ray kills this athletic program (among other things) because he can't see the trees for the forest with these "would be" Texans from Kansas who kicks our alma mater (and NT Exes) around on the radio at every opportunity with Bobby Ray's apparent approval because it never stopped, now did it; and a coach who along with his KSU connection still pulled off a hiring coup on each and every one of us. Go home, Yankees! LOL! Post Script To Bobby Ray: Please do get out of the NT athletic department business, your extending of coach's contract's and let "your" alma mater (4'th largest in Texas) go forward beyond SBC/Bottom 10 annual rankings, Mr. Ray. It is absolutely no fun for many of us anymore who saw Top 20 rankings and high profile OOC wins in our student days, but now annually seeing pretty close to the Bottom of NCAA D1-A rung performances each year (and that even as as bowl team for crissakes)! Do you realize yet that the Tulsa loss last Fall was our worst home loss in NT football history? Most of us, Mr. Ray, just do not share the same enthusiasm you seem to have with DD and in your seeing him meet all your (apparent) very low NCAA D1-A goals for NT football. How much longer will all this continue, sir? AND Mr. Ray.........just what in the wide world of sports kind of legacy are you truly trying to leave behind at your alma mater anyway? Just our football program being the best of the worst is going to do it for you? ............................................................................................................ CAN YOU BELIEVE THESE NT FACTS? WELL..........BELIEVE IT! At any rate, DD's last 2 predecessors (Dennis Parker & Matt Simon) were both released from their NT coach's contracts right after each of their recruiting seasons which mean't several weeks after the football season had actually ended. So it really never is too late to do the the right thing that will ultimately give our alma mater a realistic chance to remove ourselves from our Bottom Quadrant NCAA D1-A existance and move forward in NCAA D1-A, football. For the life of me, in 30 plus years of following NT football, I've never seen any head football coach at UNT of which a very large number of its alums and fans were so displeased and had such confrontational feelings with and so ready to see a most unhappy NT employee move on (& only for the ultimate good of "our" school) than this scenario with DD. It is truly a most unique situation for an NCAA D1-A school to be in. >>>>>>>>>>>> IN A NUTSHELL THIS IS WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN IN A PERFECT UNT WORLD (which we now know is hardly a perfect one): Anyway, DD's present recruiting class needs to (now) be evaluated by an outside, unbiased recruiting Texas HS/Texas D1-A collegiate observer not connected to UNT in any way, and then after he tells us what many already sorta' know with how this new recruting class is shaping up (as we fight to even try to beat 1-AA schools for many of our new recruits) the right thing needs to be done ASAP. This could all become a very expensive venture if we don't because (even moreso) there is too much discord and confrontational attitudes with DD as our head football coach among the Mean Green troops. ...........NT leaders just simply need to release Dickey from his contract and with new, positive leadership that we can still actually get at UNT to come in and give our present MEAN GREEN football players an honest and realistic chance to be successful beyond the SBC/Bottom Quadrant of NCAA D1-A in their remaining year(s) at the University of North Texas. If for no other reason, they deserve such coaching and discipline that history tells us they will not get in one more year with DD. Folks, you know as much as I that we can (and have) done better than what we're getting and we don't have to settle with what some call success (that no one outside UNT seems to call it). We just all need a new fresh beginning so we can hold on to our present Mean Green fans and gain new ones that we will not be successful in doing any of the aforementioned until we do make a change. Do we need 9, 10, 15 years of Dickey Ball so he can get to .500 that coaches such as Mike Price have pulled off at UTEP in less the 3 years (with Top 25 rankings in that time as well)? BTW, UNT hold the all time series W/L over UTEP in football, so do we deserve less than UTEP? ............................................................................................................. PS II; And to Rick Villarreal, I don't blame you one iota for wanting to get the hell out of Dodge where you are not allowed to do your job while you helplessly have to watch other UNT powers bully their way around with some kind of ego trip that has all but created an impossible situation that no "NCAA D1-A" athletic director would ever want to come to UNT to work under such impossible circumstances. Yet, RV, I think UNT is still the proverbial "sleeping giant" that someone (maybe you) will one day have the patience to create and work the forumula it is going to take to wake up our Jolly Mean Green Giant (and beating mainstream NCAA D1-A football schools on a regular basis would be a pretty damn good way to start). Have A Nice Day

To GGII: Now Rick, why should dear ol' alma mater recruit in an area that the North Texas Council of Goverments says now has 5.6 million population (or citizens) and all in our backyard in Mean Green Country? We shouldn't ever have anyone listed on such lists, now (insert sarcasm) should we? Don't forget our infamous "under the radar theory" ((& might this have really been a GMG.com created theory all this time--that's just a theory, too BTW) that other schools like SMU, La Tech and Tulsa have apparently picked up on in recent recruiting years and are (apparently) mastering "The Theory" quite well (as last Fall's scoreboard results might indicate). Hellsbells, Rick, has it come down to our having lost our ace in the hole with all this under the radar theory gone kaput! {:<( GGII, let's you and I come up with some new recruiting theories, OK? }:>) .................................................................................................... AN OVER THE RADAR THEORY..........What can we possibly be hiding at UNT with such a radar theory that other schools that get in the Top 25 regularly (or even the Top 60 NCAA 1-A schools) would want to recruit to the extent that we do each Winter? (BTW, the MAC's top football schools get in the Top 25 regularly, so with that glaring fact in mind what are we waiting on at UNT to emulate the MAC's top football schools)? ....................................................................................................

REVISED FOR YOUR 2'ND CUP OF SUNDAY AM COFFEE: Being in the Top 19, buff64, is something that we won't have to worry about 'round these parts until UNT gets a whole new group of "higher thinking/higher recruiting" coaches I'm afraid, but this alum was damn proud when as a UNT student I woke up one morning to read in the Dallas Morning News sport pages that the Mean Green had been ranked in the Top 20. We have regressed each decade and I don't understand why so many seem to have accepted all this as our place among all others in NCAA D1-A. Yet I don't think beating the "sisters of the poor" for post season rewards has hardly caught the attention of the following: (1) ...the local, regional or national media; (2) ...NT fans, especially the "would be" casual or borderliners; after all, we still have 15K (+/-) per home game averages after 4 bowl games for crissakes'---so what's wrong with that picture----duh?); (3) ...area newspaper's local top 50, local 100 lists or state-wide Texas HS blue chippers; we say we recruit for need, but our need is to recruit to get out of the bottom quadrant of NCAA D1-A. (4) ...and for damn sure the Top 25 pollsters. We are total strangers to that group of voters and even during (or after) our 4 bowl appearances they still don't know who we are, least of all will cast significant votes our way like they have no problem doing for the MAC's top football school. SEARCHING QUESTIONS: It's just that many of us think we can do better (but we have to have better) to do better. In fact, might it take a program like NORTH TEXAS to catapult to Top 25 rankings with our football program in order for us to impress our own T. Boone Pickens-types, ie, the infamous............."Big Donor." Would you give Big Monies to a program operating at our present level that I think too many (even on this board) seem most content? I mean how many of you think DD will have really pulled it off if he only gets us back to the top of the SBC? Have you checked lately where the SBC is ranked in football? Do any of you think our former 1-AA football league, ie, the Southland Conference and its football champion could give our SBC champion a good game most any year, even beating our top team at times? Could any SBC school have beatin Jerry Moores' Appalachian State last Fall? I don't think so. And after all, didn't NT lose to 1-AA programs (now in the SBC) during most of our bowl years? GIVE ME MONEY, THAT'S-A WHAT I WANT: Not sure how such high rollers as the T. Boone Pickens-types think, but can we really expect any one of them to give their multi-millions to NT for a new football stadium after they do their own research as to where we have been ranked recently among all other schools in NCAA D1-A (and even after bowl games)? Would you? (Probably not a fair question as I think most on this forum most "admirably" would, but most out there our fundraisers are talking to are not into all this Mean Green business as we all are, no matter to what degree). It is really my hope that I am wrong about many things I post about with our present situation concerning Mean Green football, but my gut feeling after observing much on this football program (and the kind of personnel that succeeds or doesn't succeed in Denton) for 30 plus years tells me I won't be. Success is defined with most of us with the Fouts Field turnstile count each year and we haven't seen our averages go up at all even during bowl years (other than meeting the NCAA minimum standard). I know many others on GMG.com (and well beyond) who have these same feelings that being around this for a few decades has given them, too. Still, I hope we are all 100% wrong about most of this and that someone proves us all to be wrong in a very big way (and does it very soon), because if that happens, it is our alma mater who will be the winner in every bit of this (and after all, isn't this all about our alma mater than any one person, any individual or group in the NT athletic department or a significant group of concerned NT Exes who merely want to see UNT operating its varsity football program in a higher profile NCAA D1-A co-existance)?