PlummMeanGreen

UNTLifer, someone who knows him and can talk some sense with the man would be the only way for any of this to have any chance of making any headway for the cause of a UNT constituency who really sincerely thinks we can do better at UNT than what we presently are. And FWIW, I was born at night, but I wasn't born last night and would know better than to waste my own time talking to someone (I don't personally know or have any influence) and one who seems to really not want to listen to those outside his own little elite circle in Denton (headed by "non Phd" Chancellor Lee Jackson--also his own personal pick to lead the UNT System).

IE, you don't have to be a recruiting guru if you merely look at the results of poor coaching, poor disciplining, bad mouthing of your very own employer's fans, etc, etc, etc, . Have all the aforementioned galvanized our NT Exes and the Mean Green Nation as one family in total harmony. Such a characterstic that is vital for a school like UNT to have any chance to succeed at the turnstiles and in the donations department (across the board)s? How many football season tickets get sold this summer? I know many who will no longer re-new their football season tickets at UNT until our leadership starts listening to its constituency (which sorta' out-numbers those making the decisions in Denton I think we'd all agree)? Do some NT fans really need another 1, 2, or 8 years of Dickey Ball to figure out that he is (still) at best a journeyman assistant football coach (and not sure how successful he was even at that to be quite frank)? After all, Helwig signed him to a contract at UNT after he had been at SMU for (let's all count now) "1" year on the Hilltop. I know, one year at SMU and about 4 other journeyman stops in 10 years makes any journeyman assistant coach very elgible to be a head football coach at any level, right? Well, it seemed to be that at the University of North Texas who once chose Dennis Parker over Dennis Francione to be our head football coach. FWIW, we do seem to have quite a track record in head football coach hirings in Denton, now don't we? One can only wonder what we of UNT will do next time to avoid hiring a coach with the skins on his wall that could actually take us to Top 25, to take us out of all this SBC/Bottom 10 malaise that has some of our best fans in some kind of catatonic trance of acceptance of Bottom of the Barrell performance on and off the football field. 8 years of under .500 and with his most recent recruiting classes that showed all on the field of battle (where we sort'a judge recruiting classes, right?); anyway, Dickey Ball with its last few years of recruiting results showed that those were hardly of the quality that would even allow us to compete against schools like Florida "freakin" Atlantic U? Someone (again) please tell us what we are supposed to be hanging our hats on to feel we have a good football future under present conditions? We are all ears! And sir, FAU only started their football program 6 years ago and from scratch. BTW, to those who seem to have forgotten, we've lost to FAU 2 years in a row and one of those losses was a bowl year for DD--his last bowl year in 2004. Hellsbells, maybe we should just clean house at UNT and start over from scratch, it seems to have worked quite well for FAU, now hasn't it? (Do we stand a chance to "out-coach" Coach Schnellenberger and beat them in only our 3'rd attempt this Fall)? BOWLING FOR DOLLARS: Can UNT football fans put 2 and 2 together as to who might have gone bowling in 2004 had FAU been an SBC member at the time? ** What if Troy U had been a member of the SBC in 2001(which was their desire)when they also beat us as a NCAA D1-AA school? For those who will take the green tinted glasses off, that was DD's 1'st bowl year. So someone please tell the rest of us, what are we supposed to be excited about with all the veiled success we've had with one of the strangest head football coaching jobs and performances against the "sister of the SBC poor" in the history of the NCAA? So come on, Island Eagle, any novice can see what we have with Darrell Dickey in control at UNT and you don't have to be a recruiting guru to figure out what the NT Football Media Guide will tell each and every one of the UNT constituency in black and white; for those who choose to take their heads out of the sand, that is.

I'll be a bit more civil about this than many other fellow NT Exes who I've communicated with via telelphone or emails since signing day, but the general consensus is is that this class is not difficult to assess at all. It's a class that may allow us to compete in the middle of the Sun Belt Conference and that's about all we are going to get. We now know from last seasons results against La Tech, Tulsa, FAU what we've been getting in recruiting the last 3 years that our coaches told us each of those years............."This Was One Of Our Better Classes"................(hey, I still have some ocean front property in Parker County for some of you that I'll sell at a premium price).;( Yet if some of you persists on trying to polish this t&rd and make it look like a gold brick, then go ahead, but how did you feel after the Tulsa loss last season--our worst home loss in UNT football history? Well, if that made you feel pretty low, then get ready for some more low moments in NT's upcoming football program under present leadership. SO GO AHEAD, JUST GO AHEAD &............... close you eyes, click your heels 3 X's and ask yourselves 3 X's: "This is a good recruiting class, now isn't it??? Nobody will stop you from what your personal thoughts are on this class, but in 3 years you will be asking yourselves this question: WHY IN THE HELL WAS BOBBY RAY AND HIS ASSOCOCIATES TRYING TO PERSERVERE ALL OF THIS BOTTOM OF THE BARRELL PERFORMANCE AT UNT IN THE FIRST PLACE? .........AND WHY WERE THEY DOING THIS AT THE EXPENSE OF ALL NT EXES AND THE MEAN GREEN NATION MANY OF WHOM HAVE FOLLOWED THIS FOOTBALL PROGRAM LONG BEFORE MANY ON ITS PAYROLL EVEN KNEW (or cared) THAT THERE WAS A DENTON, TEXAS, USA? ? ? ? ? ? ? (and won't care 5 minutes off the UNT payroll). **** Sorry, didn't mean to be so loud with the last couple of sentences, but being a bit hearing impaired just causes some of us to speak louder than most). YOU LOVE ALL THIS? IF SO, YOU NOW HAVE YOUR HEART'S DESIRE..... You love all this SBC/Bottom 10 competition with Top 25 being something that only happens at other NCAA 1-A schools, but at ("we po', but proud, redneck mutha' backs against the wall UNT) the Top 25 is merely a pipe dream that only happens at places like UTEP, Bowling Green and even other top football schools in the "lowly" MAC who visit Top 25 rankings frequently). You really all do love this? Well, if so.........you who do now have your hearts desires. You love all this veiled and disguised success (with some NT athletic employees winking at each other giggling "Norm Hitzges-style" as they plan to retire in Denton and all this because they've been able to pull the wool over the eyes of the Mean Green Nation? Well, if so..........you who do now have your heart's desire. You love watching all other Texas D1-A schools passing us by with facilities, better coaching, better recruiting while as they pass us beeping at us like the old Road-Runner cartoon series? Well, if so.............you who do now have your heart's desire. You like having about 99% on our alma mater's athletic dept. payroll who can't even get job interviews (and you know all the reasons why) with other schools at the NCAA D1-A level (and if truth be known, even at the NCAA 1-AA level)? Well, if so..........you who do now have your heart's desire. You like seeing Bottom Of The Barrell (BOTB) performance continuously getting rewarded at UNT with (with an unprecedented and most unusual style of athletics management at any level in the NCAA?); and rewarded with extended contracts after years of under .500 performance so we of the MG Nation can keep on seeing this "BOTB" style of intercollegiate athletics in Denton for the next however many more years now? Well, if so..............you who do now have your hearts desire. You think tweaking our assistant NT football coaching staff with the firing of a few and briinging in other new faces is really the answer in Mean Green Country? Is this the very thing that will continue to float the boats of many of the Mean Green Nation many of whom have already cea$ed their own per$onal funding of this sham of a athletic program operating in the SBC/Bottom 10 ? Well, if so..............you who do now have your heart's desire. <>*<> There are many of us who do not like what we are seeing and what even appears to be after national signing week a continuance of mediocrity in the University of North Texas football program and..............gettting 1 minute of attention, a smile or a beer from the head foootball coach is not going to change any of this one iota for a growing army of many who are just plain not very happy with what we are seeing. . ................................................................................................... DID WE REALLY RECRUIT THAT MANY WHO HAD MAINSTREAM NCAA D-1A TALENT (& above the SBC/Bottom10)? One recruiting service has UNT ranked in the low 100's (out of 119) and 4'th in the SBC (I repeat: "4'th in the SBC"...............honestly, many were surprised it was even that high); yet another national ranking service has UNT ranked dead last among all NCAA D1-A schools (but in all fairness, it had less than a handful of NT recruits on their list) but being dead last on any list no matter the situation is still not a very comfortable place to be. .................................................................................................... .................................................................................................... SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HIM PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO BOBBY RAY : We can do better than what we're doing, sir, because we have done better. Do the right thing, Mr. Ray, and don't delay for one more second or minute what can once again be a successful (at a higher profile) and proud Mean Green football program that used to swim with the sharks (and while swimming with those sharks at a higher NCAA 1-A co-existance got in some signifiant bites among those sharks as well). Mr. Ray, many who want to invest into all this are just not going to any longer under present conditions and leadership. Do you know many fans of the Longhorns, Aggies, Bears, Cougars, Red Raiders, etc, etc, etc, who would (least of all lay down and enjoy it while its happening to them)? FWIW, Mr. Ray: Corky Nelson was 6 & 5 and had beaten SMU his last year on the UNT payroll. Dennis Parker and Matt Simon were realeased from their contracts immediatly follwing their last recruiting class. Time is of essence, Mr. Ray, and time is (after all).........................money. Do the right thing, sir, and as an NT grad yourself, you'll be glad you did. ...................................................................................................... ......................................................................................................

Since we know how good Appalachian State was this last Fall with their perfromance against LSU among others, we know that 1-AA has produced some good football thru the years. We all know that NT has had some good teams in 1-AA and at times better than some we've had at our present level, too, but if truth be known: McNeese State and whoever the top SLC football teams have been the last few years would have most likely been competitive in the Sun Belt and probably would have won it on occassion. No, no advocating we ever go back to what we are (IMO) still trying to recover from, ie, 12 years of "off the radar' 1-AA college football, but lets just get our Mean Green football product back to a high quality and cast our sails to a bigger pond (CUSA?) than the one we're in; but (seemedly) we are not having a good start in doing that. Just as many of you who have emailed me (and each other I'd guess), I, too, am equally disappointed with this recruiting class and who we were (not) up against to sign most of this class. Sure there are projects in this class, but NCAA D1-A football schools cannot always continually rely on projects to raise itself from the bottom. At best, this 2006 class may get us back to the upper division of the SBC (but not necessarily to the SBC's top), but this will just not be where a school the size/scope of UNT should be and (especially) with the fact that we are located in a major league sports market in the 6'th largest U.S. TV market (with as many North Texas Exes, ie, TV viewers in this 6'th largest TV market than any other single Texas university; and yes, that even includes the 2 Texas flagship schools. BTW, I've been looking for some UT gear and Longhorn souvenirs, but can't seem to find any here in the Metroplex. (uh...................NOT)! Can you believe the blitz of UT gear and stuff (even when there was hardly a shortage of such before they won their NC)? Yet at the University of North Texas, we simply just have to have a good football product aimed toward Top 25 rankings due to the (Lone Star) state we are located as well as the sports market we're located as well (among other reasons). This is not an impossible feat as UTEP has proven that to those who might even suggest we cannot attain such a lofty status (again) in Denton, Texas, America.

First, foremost and concerning the real things in life that count the most: I am sorry to have heard about our coach's health situation and (like each of you) have offered up prayers that Coach Dickey will have a full recovery. We can lose many things in our lifetimes and have many setbacks (as most of us have) but when anyone loses his (or her's) health, one has just about lost everything. Here's to a speedy recovery for our head football coach. ............................................................................ AS FAR AS RECRUITING GOES..........Some who have called each other throughout this national recruiting day, emailed or did some Private Messaging through GMG.com have the same genuine concerns that one of our posters who has "only" been an NT fan since the 1940's (Gray Eagle One) has stated such in another thread/post; but that is his (and our) present concerns that we seem to have hardly been up against any schools of note for recruits that will be the kind of kids who will take us to that proverbial next level. And I guess by now most have all read the official recruiting list from the NT Athletic Department that in year's past showed many of the (significant) schools we were up against to sign those recruits, but the 2006 list seemed to not mention any of the schools we would have all liked to have seen as those we out-recruited for this 2006 recruiting class. I (once again) use the phrase "going to the next level" for NT football and have noticed in past weeks a few of our best fans with how that concept seemed to have gotten under some of their skins (as I read their posts stating such) but when an NCAA D1-A school from the Sun Belt Conference that is already toward the bottom of this league in performance and recruiting, I think many might agree that going to the "next level" may now be the only direction we can go at NORTH TEXAS. If our recruiting did finish 4'th in the SBC (as Rivals has projected), then we will just all have to observe how that translates on the football field and beginning this Fall. We have to also remember that most of the 119 NCAA D1-A schools are going to do their best to redshirt as many of their true freshman as possible, so I don't think we can depend on any of this group for the upcoming football season. IT'S STILL ALL ABOUT EDUCATION: All those we did recruit will get a good education at UNT-Denton and that will be something that will last them long after their football playing days are over.

Then I wonder how we ever recruited the top ranked Texas HS recruit in 1977, ie, **Milton Collins. TAMU (among about 75 other schools) wanted him very much, too, but that was back in the day when NT leadership didn't "po' boy" everything about NT, yet instilled a "can do" spirit and pride that even little ol' NORTH TEXAS could swim with the sharks and also go after high profile recruits while even being able to sign some of them, too. We just simply had a higher self esteem about ourselves back in that day. A university's constituency most always seems to adopt the attitude of those in charge or at the top. Garbage in--garbage out<>*<>if you think you can't--you probably can't and you probably won't. ** Nevermind the fact that Milton Collins was not the raging success all Texas D1-A schools (& many across the USA) who recruited him thought he would be collegiately, but the fact remains that it was UNT (out of all those others) who was still the one who signed him on that cold, snowy national recruiting signing day back in February, circa 1977. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **** None of this has never, never been about a person's character, worth or their personal integrity, but just merely what many feel are simply limitations of talents and abilities as to how far up they can actually take us up the NCAA ladder and away from our present standing among the balance of NCAA D1-A membership (outside the Sun Belt Conference).

ADLER, I think they originally showed that Madison Avenue produced and (in deed) slick 8 millimeter silent movie as to what Fouts Field would look eventually like at the old (now demolished) Fine Arts Theatre on the Denton Courthouse Square. In fact, one on my ex professors I had for an elective, ie, the great Fessor' Floyd Graham was said to have played that theatres organ during the showing of the Fouts flick as some Dentonites were overheard saying: "Why in hades would they want to take all that good farming (and hay producing) land away from us, dabnab it?!?!?! On the serious side, I do get the message you are sending us.

And going on 55 years, Rick.

Sadly, many who have given up with all this you will no longer see post on this forum any longer. My days of doing such will probably also end in due time, but (what the hell) I want to get my shots in now toward those who I think are profusely abusing the power of their position or title at UNT and at the expense of the entire UNT constituency. Only someone who has had the attitude of "low expections" ingrained in their brains would want to see UNT Athletics continue in its present form with most every varsity coach we have up there operating under .500 after several years to do otherwise. (Hey, folks, we are hardly in the Big 12 up there with our level of competition which should have any coach operating at an above .500 clip; although, I still think Coach Jones will eventually do well in basketball and also believe has has the talent and ability to take this up a knotch, too. Just my .02 on NT basketball, though. I guess I am just a glutton for my own self punishment even talking about all this cause it pains me to see what's happening and how many of us feel the best we will ever do will still not get us any Top 25 votes in football.. So like many of you, I am. too, just none too pleased with those who have taken away what used to be many of ours "high profile" dreams at NORTH TEXAS at an NCAA D1-A level. Do any of you have an appreciation for those who would play a significant part in taking away your own dreams (whatever those may be)? Our young gun alums have no idea what the hell many of us are talking about with all this and will never (under present conditions) be able to wake up some Sunday morning, get a Dallas Morning News SportsPage and read how our Mean Green rocked the entire college football world with an upset of the University of Tennessee (and other similar high profile schools we have kicked some butt in an era long past). I do look forward to the eventual changes that will come at UNT and our getting back on the high road with NT athetics. This will happen because things just cannot continue as they are; but I am just as impatient as many of you with the present detour we're in the middle of and untimely delay for all this to happen for all of us (again) in Mean Green Country. I do like the latter part of your 3'rd sentence, though, Bill. AND.....Bill, after I finish a 2 week training program/in-service and indoctrination type program at my job, I'll invite you over to my nice new office for some coffee (if you can slip away from your own job to do such things).

SUNDAY MORNING COMIN' DOWN........... Funny, BA! Well, Baby Arm, but since you 've sorta' now turned this into something other than a baseball thread I will respond with this: B.A., after about the 6'th game of Dickey Ball this next Fall, whatever section you are sitting in, many may start calling you the, uh, "Lone Gunman" since you will most likely not have that many sitting around you. Still totally amazing (almost unfathomoble for some of you who I suppose have a good UNT college education) is how some of you still seemd to need 2 or more years of boring, undisciplined, "radio bashing aimed at "YOU" Dickey Ball to figure out what many of us knew after his first 8 years. Sorry, but those 4 bowl games and who we had to beat to get those just don't do it, just like they never did it for most of the regional and national sports media---except the boys of the MGRN, of course). Now some of you can walk around all you want, high five each other till the cows come home and state (while some of you may now even ask): "Well, we really do have it going on at UNT because (after all) we were SBC/Bottom 10 football champions and went to 4 bowl games? So surely that means we really do have it going on at UNT, uh, now don't we?" >>>>>>>>>>>A Lone Star State college football fan's question to any Mean Green fan: "But how far into the Top 25 did all that Dickey Ball get yall? "HUH?!?!?!?" "Say it again now........just how few votes toward the bottome of the Top 25 voting list did yall get during that 4 bowl game run?" "Oh, I see.............." Is UNT's most unique reward system of athletic mananagement (at an NCAA D1-A level, that is) going to make an obvious North Texas misfit the next Tina Slinker and give him a chance (I'd say 17 years is a rather big chance, wouldn't you?) to get that W/L record up to .500, but that being against a bunch of nobody schools since we know we rarely beat anyone outside the SBC/Bottom 10? To you who have an obvious passion for the kind of college football we are presently getting in Denton I really have to ask to you this question: "Why don't we just aim this ship back to the Southland Conference (of which the last 8 years of Dickey Ball many of us wonder now how many times we would have actually beaten their best 2 football schools)? ....................................................................................... Dear Bobby Ray: (and I know your listening since you truly value the opinions of the NT constituency) (a bit of my own sarcasm with that). Yet, you have single-handedly with your tunnel-visioned "not looking at the short term or long term ramifications of your decision-making" created a malaise at UNT where fans are accepting of just about anything you keep dishing out to them and of which you also keep giving contract extensions to. Mr. Ray, you have single-handely taken UNT to new and lower depths and its all happening under your watch, little buddy, ie, our little Napoleon of the North who few I know still seem to have ever seen you at Mean Green football games 3-4 decades before it sorta' became your job as an NT Regent to be seen at Mean Green football games. Have A Nice Day! ......................................................................................... Uh..............You All Like That? (Hellsbells, if I haven't gotten anything else of value or substance the last decade from the Mean Green Radio Network boys I did get that phrase from them. A phrase (which BTW) was a condescending sarcasam coming from paid NT employees aimed at each and every one of you. So...........Do You All Really, Really Like That? Many of us don't any longer and we won't $upport such condescending $hit such as that coming from those employed by the University of North Texas. BTW, Baby Arm, I am not "the Lone Gunman" with those thoughts, either----you'll see. ......................................................................................... SLACKER? And hey now, whose saying I don't have a job out there? After 25 years in the tech school recruiting business, just recently got my highest salary offer after those 25 years, grabbed it (of course) and am back to being a tax-payer (but FWIW, I sure as hell enjoyed some time off; in fact, I recommend it (but probably moreso on a permanent basis) to many presently on the UNT Athletic Department payroll who have delivered to the Mean Green Nation low set goals at an SBC/Bottom 10 level that we are not even reaching any longer. SO ONE MORE TIME I ASK THE QUESTION: How many more years of Dickey Ball and Dickey style leadership do you need before your own lights turn on with all this. 3 most strategic losses last Fall (and a near loss to FIU even with their 8 turnovers) turned my lights on big time with all this and brought me out of my own "self-induced" malaise and back to what I sorta' knew all the time was the true reality of what we've really had with our MG football program operating at a low level. I think many of you know exactly what we have, too, but why some of you still want to support its perseverance is the $64,000 question to many of us. Like that scene in the Frankenstein movie, we should all be marching up that hill with our torches lit demanding some answers and some changes in Mean Green Country. (And don't take that too literally, Baby Arm)! LOL!

Are we casting pearls before NT's versions of Porky the Piggies, eulesseagle? We just have those who like being average, that's all, ee. Sorta' sad in many ways. Wonder how much they will continue to give to Bottom of the SBC Barrell college football? I won't give a penny, don't mind others knowing that and won't give a damn-yankee dime till we raise our standards back to where the 4'th largest university in Texas needs to have its standards. For you who don't like that-----sue me! I love all the responses, though; sorta' healthy in many ways, although a few of our distinguished posters with their Junior High'ish type responses are kind of surprising me just a tad. Funny how some people react toward you when you don't accept the kind of low expection type shit they are so readily accepting at UNT. I hardly know these people anymore. Yet, who knows, maybe some will get so pissed (even at me--I don't really care, I can handle it); but, eulesseagle, I hope some finally wake up to smell that rank odor coming from the NT Athletic Dept, figure out what we are really getting with all this and march right into Denton and demand changes now. And kicking a few strategic asses while they are there up there probalby wouldn't hurt, either. I think frontier justice has its place when used at the right and proper time. Hmmm? Chuck Norris, eh? (No, not really, I believe in MLK non-violence if truth be known). I also believe in people taking away what NT leader$ need until they finally get the point. I hope we don't have another "Pull the Plug" type photo of an empty Fouts Field in our near future; for those of us who have been around UNT awhile, we know to never say never with such things in Denton. GOD BLESS REAL TEXANS! PS: To H-towngreen: You asked for my expectations of Dickey Ball? Darrell Dickey cannot meet my expectatoins and his 9'th year of an under .500 career in Denton will continue to prove that. I don't buy his beating the "100 and up" worse football schools in NCAA D1-A in order to get a bowl game as our ultimate panacea for where this football program really needs to go. I could probably beat my sister 4 years in a row of tennis, but I don't really know what I would have proven with that. You mention something about me saying something positive? Well, I think it is positive for my desire to have personel in Denton who will take us out of this muck and mire of a NCAA D1-A football existence. Maybe being negative is for those who want to see it perservere under one who has had 8 years to prove his worth? Ever look at it like that? Well, many are now doing so. DD's little "feel sorry for those who have to play our ass" comments sounds like a comment coming from a desperate NT athletic employee who knows fewer and fewer are buying into his style or his product any longer. For those who have to market Dickey Ball this summer for the 2006 football season, I can't remember a time when NT athletic marketing had its work so cut out for themselves as they do this next summer.

I've been looking introspectively for 4 decades, good_ken, and even as a novice I tend to have a knack as to know what is working and what is not working as far as University of North Texas athletics is concerned. I don't know why all the support for all this Bottom of the Barrell level of athletics we presently are operating under, though. That part has me just about as baffled on all of this as does one of the strangest coaching careers I've ever observed in the NCAA happening in Denton, Texas, America as we all post. Back in the early 1980's I was offerd a job in the UNT athletic deparment but had to turn that down because the ex-wife would not move back to Denton which was a stipulation for that (fundraising) job. I used to be pretty involved with NT Exes in both Dallas and Fort Worth and the very one who wanted to hire me was most aware of that. Yet on all the other things we are discussing here, all I know is what I observe on the football field that fans will (or will not) support by showing up for the games (even after bowl appearances) and then the actual turnstile count in the Sunday AM boxscores. 2 pretty good barometers to go by most might agree. Introspectively, I know how I feel about what I am observing and I am not alone with that observation.

Your points well taken, illuvius32, but its apathy with UNT personel that has kept us from becoming what we can really be. We've had glimpses of that in the past and before you and others reading this were merely a gleam in your father's eyes. Yet, I don't think I would be a very good NT alum if I just sat idle. As I slumber and watch UNT's most constant and worst enemy thru the ages, ie, apathy, create with many of our best and most sincere alums (like you) an attitude that they just have to lay back and enjoy the inevitable, that is, accept everything a handful on our campus is making us accept (and only because they are happy with the way things are while they even reward low level production with contract extensions at the stupidest "not very well thought out as to what such extension's longterm ramifications could be for the rest of us" times; and for those of us who will be stuck with employees who have had plenty of time to prove themselves as average and nominal employees you can find anywhere. We just seem now to not want the best at UNT anymore and many are just not going to invest into that low set goals and low expectation anymore; that is, until some much-needed changes are made.

And once again, who are you, your moniker hardly gives anyone a clue to that. I think "PlummMeanGreen" sorta' suggest that I am James Plummer, NT Class of 1976, prouder than hell 6'th generation Texans and also suggests that I would be the one who is posting while not really caring who reads my post; but at least they do know who those posts are coming from. And....... (once again) I am trying to read the rules that says regulars of GMG.com have to read anything I post? Don't you sorta' think that I know yall already know how I think or stand on all this? You're right, though, it is all about 1'st time lurkers (and hopefully those coming from campus or NT Exes who also will not support this style of NT football no matter how the spin-masters on campus try to spin how great it is). And you know who those NT Exes are, right? They are the ones who have about 15,000 empty seats waiting for their derriers to fill that this NT football progarm under DD has not excited them enough to want to fill. And where did you get your vital info on those internet trends? Can you link your source? Yet, still, if what you say about comparing this to tabloids is true (and I really have no reasons to doubt you); yet why has what I (and others) have been posting of of late with our true concerns of having an NT athletic program operating back in a higher profle mode seemed to have created a slight fire-storm with some who I guess enjoy tabloid0 type postings. Also, if what you are saying is true, then why have you dedicated an entire subject thread title invoking my name, ie, "PlummMeanGreen?" Shouldn't you rather be talking about that Top 119 (NCAA D1-A has 119 members, folks) recruiting haul DD is bringing in. Last recruit I bothered to read about we were actually fighting Tarleton State and (was it Midwestern State?) for his services. Hellsbells! It would be a recruiting upgrade for DD if we were even having to recruit against more Southland Conference schools (1-AA) than what we used to call the old NAIA-type schools like Tarleton and Midwestern. AND........ if that is true with the rantings part you mention, FWIW, it seems to have been effective with the many who have emailed or PM'ed me saying things such as this: "Keep on preachin', bro, with what are also "OUR" thoughts on all this, because just maybe if the right "ONE" reads it and it finally registers with that "ONE" with the general discontent we have; that is our discontent of having to be supposedly be proud of folllowing this present low expectation/low-standing in NCAA D1-A................. then maybe that "ONE" strategic and influential lurker will finally begin to see that all (in deed) is not quiet on the northern front" at UNT and that "ONE" might want to talk to someone about doing something about it." We don't have to feel like going to NT football games is like a trip to the dentist; you know, when at some point of the experience you know there is going to be some pain, but you can never predict at what part that pain (being out-coached, penalties produced by undisciplined players for 8 years running, unimaginative offense and play-calling that keeps us at 15,000 per home game and other things that I just won't take the time to list); anyway, we just don't know at which point all that pain will come and rear its ugly head, now do we?

Ha! Ha! Ha! (Will this become a "I know you are, but who am I" thread)?!?!? BUT............to you who are enjoying their SBC/Bottom 10 NCAA D1-A co-existence, I have some beach property out here in Parker County that I'm sure I'd be able to sell to some of you, (since, after all, you are buying into what you are presently buying into) Or at lea$t, to $ome of your diminishing group who have this most unusual and strange "Dickey love" working or who actually might even be giving a few nickels toward it). Have some of my (and others who feel even stronger about all this than me); anyway, have all our HSO's on all this touched a few nerves with whoever you are, thread-starter? In fact, just who are you? Or............are you going to hide behind that moniker like some NT Athletic or campus officials are now doing on this forum? Don't know about federal charges, but I (along with a growing army) all plead guilty to the following charges of: (1) Wanting to see our alma mater having leadership that will draw the Mean Green Nation back together (rather than splitting us smack dab down the middle). **Sorry, but 15K per home game for most of DD's 8 years after 4 big bowl games is not something to hang your hats on, fellers. Nor is that a hardly a statement of progress for a few in the NT Athletic Dept. who for some reason think they are God's gift to Bottom Quadrant-level NCAA athletics. A MEAN GREEN FAN'S PRAYER: O Lord, let others outside Denton see some of this self-serving "special" talent in the same light that they see themselves and let some higher profile (or any) program just "down right" steal them away from us before we are stuck in the muck and mire of their low goals setting and (sometimes) low goal reaching style of an athletic program. ..continuing the prayer: "O Great #1 Eagle Above, we will give some of that group some great job recommendations (although please do forgive us for breaking one of the Ten as we would be lying thru our teeth with some of that group). And please do forgive some of that group for having a great propensity of telling our MG Nation (of which some fall for it) some very Tall Texas Tales about just how great things are with all our under .500 NT coaches who get rewarded with extended contracts so they can continue persevering all this mediocrity. (Coach Fry, can you believe it's all come down to this in MG Country)? AMEN... (2) Wanting to see us actually beat somebody in football that can make the Mean Green Nation (who were once proud of who we used to beat that actually gave us national attention)..........anyway, we just want to be a proud MG Nation once again. Many of us when our school is talked about in the market place can only hang our heads down in shame because of the level they know we co-exists now in Denton. (Can you really believe people are excited about all this low expectation)/ (3) Wanting the kind of NT athletics personnel back on the payroll who are "Texas" friendly. (FWIW, some of us are going to answer "Yankee Rude" with, uh..............."Texas Rude" (and I bet ours can be much more effective in the long run and after all, there are more of us than that group and it is our group who will have the final say when all the dust settles with all this tommyrot in Denton. (4) Wanting to see our school emulate another Sun Belt Conference school such as Troy U (who didn't piddle around with stadium talk but just went out and built one. (5) Wanting to see fellow alums shuck their almost "Stepford Eagle's" catatonic condition of accepting Bottom Barrell NCAA athletics while believing those hucksters on campus who actually have them believing that beating schools like the MUTS, ULM and others similar (just out of 1-AA) is really something special. Who have some on this board convinced that beating that most "un-elite" group of SBC/Bottom 10 schools for 4 years in a row to back into a bowl is just really where its at . (Funny how no one else outside this message board or Denton seems to see it that way, especially Area Top 100 Texas HS seniors, Denton and Denton County citizens who still have an "half full/half empty" (your pick) at Fouts Field during and after those 4 big bowl appearnces. (6) Wanting to see less confrontation and confrontational attitudes from UNT employees (and they know who they are) toward many of our NT Exes and UNT constituency that they are supposed to be sorta' "Texas friendly" with (and I am talking about more than those 2 "unforgivable for any NT employee" incidents in the stands of Fouts Field last Fall, too). Who the hell do they think this athletic program is for anyway? uh..................them? We are only a career step on the ladder of iintercollegiate athletics for some of them (albeit on the lower rung of that ladder of which they have helped to become our place in NCAA D-!). And the ones who just "love that Denton" and even with sub par performance have plans of retiring there (although some of you retired years ago); yet many of us want to ask them this question: Is this the best you can do with all that talent some of you have told us for years that you possess? FWIW, many of the aforementioned group who have us sucking wind toward the bottom now will forget about anything Mean Green their first 5 minutes off the NT payroll. They will do that while we will be left with the fallout of continued small attendances( in supposed good times) at our main on campus sports venues of which such attendance are unusually low for a school located where we are located and a school the size of UNT. Are you listening, Bobby "Just Love That Low Expectation of Dickey Ball" Ray)? If not, you might want to start listening. Your eventual legacy may be at stake here. ****** And. Mr. Ray, is your being loyal to mediocrity (and your "one man show" of force-feeding Darrell Dickey to the many of us who see thru the green-tinted fog and those of us who don't want him on the payroll because we know we can do better); yet is your personal acceptance of veiled success really in the best interest of those of us who have hung around this for 3, 4 or more decades (as well as in the best interest of our young gun alums who know nothing but this SBC/Bottom 10 existence)? I ................................................................................... So (yes, in deedy) I do plead guilty to all "federal" charges. SENTENCING: So just what is my (and others who feel even stronger than I do on this but gave up on posting their concerns long ago) Anyway, what is you sentence for half of the Mean Green Nation (which is who you are really accusing more than merely just one alum, namely, me? YOU SAY WHAT IS MY SENTENCE?!?!?!? I have to watch another year or 2 or 3 of under .500 performance from a coach whose big cheap thrill is calling "3'rd and 25" draw plays? ;( Some of you call that sorta' thing..........uh, Dickey Ball, right? WHAT DO MANY OF US CALL IT? We.. we call it one big facade of a journeyman assistant football coach impersonating a head football coach at an NCAA D1-A school (even one at our present level of operation of which he is even a major player with having produced that, too). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Folks, we don't owe 8 years of under .500 performance and 5 years worth of radio bashing absolutley nothing! WE ARE NOT A REFUGEE OR RETIREMENT CENTER FOR THE LESS GIFTED, RIGHT? FWIW, there are some high profile "A" list head football coaches out there now (insert sublimenal Mike Price-types) who are wanting to resurrect their careers (insert sublimenal "such as ex SMU coach Hayden Fry did at UNT" and again, what Mike Price is presently doing at a "sometimes" Top 25 UTEP?)? UNT needs only "ONE" from that elite group who could probably "out-coach any of our coaches" even on their worst day. (Sorry, Bill, to use your now infamous phrase that almost gave you a taste of what it would be like to be a member of the World Federation of Wrestling"; and that Fouts Field experience with our (still on the NT payroll, you all) "offensive" coordinator). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HAVE A NICE DAY!

Now we are finally getting somewhere with all this! LOL! But thanks for the most benevolent and gracious offer, Bill, but for the life of me, some of the other posters on GMG.com need to tell me which part of what I have posted "non stop" is incorrrect? You know, though, last Fall if Dickey beats Tulsa, La Tech (and Schnellenberger's FAU for the first time), I might very well be out there helping to raise money so we could have someone comissioned to build a statue of the coach; except DD stilll has that glaring ominous dark cloud of his 8 year under .500 W/L at UNT standing out like a pimple on the butt of Britney Spears. (Can I say that on this forum)? Anyway, if those 3 losses would have merely been wins (with maybe a more convincing win over Florida International, too), it would have made many think that our last 3 recruiting classes had (in deed) been competitive, on a par with or even ahead of those kind of schools (which would hardly be confused with any of the NCAA D1-A's Top 80 schools. This whole thing could very well go into the crapper for the next half decade (or more) if we don't start recruiting more "recognized" quality athletes than all of the aforementioned schools who all schooled us pretty well last Fall. I am trying to understand how our DL is going to improve so dramatically next Fall as to stop schools such as a "light-weight" FAU who ran the ball at will as they soared to their 2'nd win over UNT in as many years.

Does radio village idiot (and UTA dropout) Mike Reiner truly get a real w@@dy when he persists on calling us North Texas State? Even in the commercial of our 1-800-Mean Green foundation alums he calls us NTSU. OR..............does someone at UNT (who may know the former Texas goveror) need to get Bill Clements (who signed our name-change bill) to make a call to their Hard Liners Show to tell the ol' gray wolf that we changed our name back in the mid to late 1980's? FWIW, if not for their daily discussion of certain areas of the female anatomy, the Hard Line boys would have a helluva' lot of empty radio air space on their program. Most of us left all that kind of bathroom humor behind when we graduated from the 8'th grade.

Monkeypox, I have to ask the question: What brand of truth serum are you using these days? And come on, folks, even during those bowl appearances everyone in the Mean Green Nation knew which (lightweight SBC/Bottom 10 teams) we had to beat to get those 4 bowl games. Laughingly, Dickey apparently thought those bowl games (with even 3 out of 4 losses) made it carte blanche for him to be able to kick his employer at every turn as well as we NT Exes on the radio (with both his radio buds) for about 5 years running. Of course, the other Dickey Ball supporter, one Mr. Bobby Ray had to approve or sanction most every one of those broadcasted insults to the NT constituency because...................HE DIDN'T STOP IT ONE BLANKETY BLANKED TIME! (sorry about the volume of that last phrase). So now DD because of his (general) poor tacticianal skills (just wait till FAU's Howard Schnellenberger schools him for a 3'rd straight season, folks), DD's lack of discipline under his watch, being a bit aloof with a (sometimes) condescending attitude which all culminates with even him making the disovery now that he has almost zero capital in with many in Mean Green Country. THINK UPON THESE THINGS: Most in MG Country (and I'd even guess with those who sympathize for his style of leadership at a lower profile); ANYWAY, most I'd really guess from reading most of the posters of GMG.com really do have a "take it or leave it" attitude with DD as our head football coach. Now think about that, fellow Exes and MG fans: Is such an attitude of "take it or leave it" with one of the most high profile employees on the NT payroll one that will create a groundswell of growth and support that we really need to start seeing (yesterday) in Denton with this football program and during this most important era because of the the level of the NCAA we compete? AND................such a "take it or leave it" mode of thinking toward DD that will hardly make for a very positive sales environment come this summer when NT athletic officials try to market someone and someone's football program that many now think is virtually 'un-marketable;" when NT athletic officials try to improve (already low) football season ticket sales and many can already start counting mounting thou$and$ that will no longer be earmarked for NT athletics; that is, until most of the under-acheivers in the NT athletic department have been asked to take their "special" skills to some other school and to stay a decade or more at those new surroundings. I know, not a healthy scenario for campus fundraisers, but because their bosses insist on perserving all this disguised and veiled success business which (even worse and almost insulting) is the blatant cold fact that (still) too many of our present NT leadership actually think many will continue to buy into all this. It's like a fellow alum said just yesterday as to what the main cause of much of this mounting frustration with North Texas Exes and Mean Green fans is pretty well about and is represented with the following quote from him: ............................................................................................... "In our athletic history, we haven't kept so many under-achievers and low (under. 500) performers on the NT athletic payroll for as long a time as we are doing now." ............................................................................................... IMO, that NT Ex has hit the nail on the head because in the past, most of our "under-achieving" at UNT would have the intelligence to find another job when they saw the MG Nation were not responding to either them or their performance OR................back in the day when we actually had UNT leaders who knew what the words "released said NT athletic employee from their contracts" mean't and what that could actually mean for the longterm welfare of NT athletics (operating at a higher profile in the NCAA D1-A mainstream). Who is this program for anyway? Don't NT leaders understand that our NT Exes constituency sorta' outnumbers their paid staff by many, many thousands? Are they seriously trying to reduce those thousands with what seems to be their tunnel-visioned self-serving decision-making skills that is not exciting the a large majority of the masses any longer? Do 15K per game home football averages after 4 bowl games sorta' give some on our campus a hint of all this? Today, because of this "private school" led elitist style attitude from the top, it just seems obvious to many that they couldn't give a shi& what NT Exes or Mean Greens fans do think or do, but now some are going to show them they they really do need to give a shi& with all this because those big 15K per home game averages (after 4 big bowl games) might be less starting this next football season. Losing (unimaginative) football will only hasten all of that. For certain not any kind of silly threat with any of that, but merely a statement that many now want to make to those at UNT who have their heads buried (wherever) and a statement from many who really do feel our present NT leadership needs to start opening their eyes and ears as to all the things being said from a (growing) portion of Mean Green Nation. UNT leaderrs will (soon enought) $tart $eeing a difference and $eeing that very soon and only because of many of our's general unhappiness with their choices; with their obvious lack of decision-making skills which is keeping the overall UNT athletic program (on an annual basis) aimed southward toward the Bottom 10 of an NCAA D1-A co-existance. YET..............who in their sober-thinking minds (when they sit back, think hard and look at all this) would ever want to see such a mode of operation continuing within the University of North Texas athletic department? Which one of you wants to rubber-stamp (right along with some key NT leaders) a continued philosophy of setting low goals (reaching a few) while we most obviously seem to be set on a collision course (2 and 9 in the SBC/Bottom 10 after 4 bowl appearances for crisakes'?); anyway, who really wants to approve all of this while at the same time maintaining our extremely low standing in NCAA D-A athletics? IRONICALLY YET AT THE SAME TIME KINDA' SAD BUT: SMU has (basically) given UNT 2+ decades for us to move light years ahead of most every area of the Mustang athetic program, but the question remains---did we of UNT take advantage of SMU's generosity of having given us all that time to make our move in Denton?

Good post, Monkeypox But if you will merely triple the number of inches of each of your posts, you might be up for the next "Art Bell Award!" You will have to fight me tooth and toe nail for that one, though. You are right, though, RV could hardly post on an unofficial UNT forum and tell all of us "unrealistic" types that we are 100% correct with our astute ascertations of the situation at hand with some of his athletic personel. There is also something called damage control that sometimes a forum such as GMG.com can come in quite handy. Just read on some other website today a rather lengthy "A" list of elgible NCAA D1-A (higher profile) head football coaches who would kill for a job like NORTH TEXAS; especially because of the location and the recruiting area that could (once again) be beneficial to us if one merely has a high enough self esteem to believe we can actually recruit quality football players in on own backyard. JUST TODAY......I received a call from a fellow alum almost a state away and his comments were this: "We have not had a time in our athletic history (such as now) where so many mediocre performances (and staffers without any noticeable or significant results) have been allowed to stay on the NT athletics payroll for such a long time." And FWIW, if the NT head football coaches job is handled professionally and diplomatically (with some most important strategic OOC wins in the mix) one can actually catapult themselves into a head football coaches in a league like the Big 10. Have A Nice Evening.....time to go eat some Texas black angus steak.

Granted, Bill, but you have been "all of ours Joan of Arc" in Lower Section D during a most recent heated debate you had at one particular game. LOL! BTW, can't remember, but did you ever receive any semblance or hint of an apology from your debate opponent? ............................................................................... Hey folks! Come on now, SMU is "NOT" a rival of UNT's. We play them about 1 or 2 times every 15 years so how can any school we'd play so few times ever be considered a rival? College football rivals usually play each other annually. (Sadly, our hottest and best rival of late joined the WAC). ...............................................................................

GangGreen, I don't like American Idol, so I never turn my channel to the station that broadcasts that show. I have suggested that those who don't agree with where I am coming from may not necessarily want to read even the first sentence of anything I post. Granted, my posts are long, but I am not sending cousin Guido out there to any of you who don't read them. The only conspiracy I detect are all the Stepford Eagle type Mean Green fans who seem so content to just take all this we're getting in NT football as business as usual. As I posted the other day, these epistles are (still) mostly intended for unseen first time lurkers from campus and beyond that I have been told in the past visit GMG.com in large abundance. By the huge number of hits I'm aware this forum receives each month, I tend to want to believe those who told me that there are (in deed) many visitors and lurkers on GMG.com. Granted, they need to read all points of view, but they also need to know that all are not happy with our current place in the mainstream of NCAA D1-A. GangGreen, my #1 frustation with every bit of this are those who I feel have (effectively) taken a 4 decade passion of mine (and others) away from myself and other longtime fans and as for me, I am more than just a bit pissed about this. I want to be excited about Mean Green football again (but at a higher profile). I just don't think the present coaches we have in place are the ones who will make this happen or take us to the next step; but from all the PM's and emails I've received from other NT Exes in recent weeks/months supporting almost everything I've posted, you may get a bit tense to know that (with your philosophy with this) there are many Mean Green Art Bells out there who think just like me on matters of UNT and MG Athletics. We just don't get fooled by fluff anymore but merely look at the bottom line that our media guides show us in plain black and white, ie, the W/L records of our coaches and the number of years some of our coaches have had (but are still under .500). This is not the kind of performance or standards that many of us feel will get us a new football stadium built at UNT in our opinions. We hope we are wrong. Of course, Mr. Big Donor could still always step forward no matter whats going on at UNT or with the W/L records of our varsity sports programs. Its just that I feel we need to show annual, continuous marked improvements for any Mr. Big Donor to want to be a partner with all this at UNT. Just my .02.......

MY RESPONSE TO AN INSULT WITH A, WELL........... A FEW MORE... POINT/COUNTER-POINT My thoughts concerning your most shallow "dumb-a$$ed" statement about comparing me to Art Bell is that you are like one of those college students who apparently couldn't read (like the ex Okla. St. football player who went to the NFL and then they discoved could not read) and that you for damn sure can't (or simply won't) read your "blanekty blanked" NT Football Media Guide which would tell even a novice (which Im not sure your even at that level) would tell any "foward thinking" Mean Green football fan that this football program has been living a lie (so you really do listen to, uh, Art Bell, GangGreen?) UNT is living a lie with all this fake, veiled and disguised success of beating a bunch of SBC nobodies (most of whom were just out of 1-AA) to go 4 bowl games. 4 bowl games (of which got beat 3 out of 4 times with the last 2 losses which showed this football program was sinking even in the depths of SBC). GangGreen, you just seem to enjoy small time "shooting fish in the SBC barrell" football, so I guess DD is the coach for you to enjoy for the next 8 years as he still tries to get to .500 of which his last 8 years still has him 16 games under such. (And there even now seems to be a new tradtion at UNT of honoring such performance). Yet you and others of you who are almost 2-faced (when it come to yalls "like DD today/didn't like him yesterday and probably won't after national signing day on February 1'st); This is all very confusing with all this love/hate for DD. Yet some of you will just go ahead and continue to throw your good money at some terrifically bad and enjoy this SBC/Bottom 10 existence because that is all Darrell Dickey will ever be able to deliver in Denton. NOTE: And then there are some who won't be throwing their money away anymore until Darrell Dickey is off the NT payroll and is back in the land of Dorothy and Toto (or anywhere he damn well wants to go for that matter just so its out of Denton). I'm sure "daddy" can fix him up. WHAT HAVE WE DONE AT UNT TO DESERVE ALL THIS IN THIS NEW MILLENIUM? All you still have with DD is a journeyman assistant football coach disguised as a head football coach at an NCAA D1-A school and if not for his "daddy" who knows all the right people (like, uh, all the right hiring authories at NCAA D1 schools?); anyway, if not for that "special" inside advantage," DD would still be a journeyman assistant football coach at some school(s), probably right there with his buddy. Phil Bennet, at SMU. Just very frustratingt how UNT would hire a totally unknown commodity who had had about 6 assistant football coaching jobs in the previous 10 years before "daddy" and Craig Helwig ((all 3 with Kansas State connections for you who seem to forget that connection) pulled off this hiring coup right under the noses of a "sleeping" Mean Green Nation. Of course, the NT BOR's rubber-stamped all this of which it seems this group will rubber-stamp just about anything up there. Do they really ever read what the hell they are rubber-stamping? "You All Like That?" LET'S CALL AN ACE AN ACE AND A SPADE A SPADE HERE: NT leadership has been terribly unsuccessful the last 2 1/2 decades in hiring athletic personel (like their hiring Dennis Parker over Dennis Franchione)? A very big........DUH with that one). Yet GangGreen (and others who enjoy all this mediocrity) you still need proof of all this non-success when it comes to hiring personel in the NT Athletic Dept? The proof in the pudding is still merely looking at the W/L records of all those who have been hired and their varsity teams at UNT the last 2 or so decades of which can be found in any school's media guides. EVEN WORSE THAN DD? Some of the 2-faced hypocrites on this message board are absolutely astounding (and pathetic). I lost count the last few years of the number of people who have told me how they did not like Darrell Dicky's leadership or even his style of football. They dissed Dickey Ball on GMG.com almost non-stop and then when he buys them a beer or even smiles at them, they just seem to forget all about his last 8 years of W/L records; they seem to forget the worst home loss in NT history vs. Tulsa; they seem to forget that we still get beat by schools whose football programs only recently opened up for business; and never-mind that we got our heads handed to us by a school last seaason at some far away outposts in NW Lousiana that UNT should be out-recruiting even in bad years. Yet with our "double-faced" crowd (who have been as pissed about DD's on-going radio comments as the next NT Ex) but with some of this group he has become "da' man for da' job" at UNT. And now that we have Spring (excuse me), uh, Winter football practice coming up (BTW, hurry up DD and get that started before they pull a Dennis Parker or Matt Simon on you and fire you after they see the results of yet another SBC/Bottom 10 class on national signing day). Yes in deedy, we have our Spring Football birds who start doing some of that "Art Bell" type stuff and suddenly think DDickey has recruited for UNT a whole covey of Parade All American football recruits and then they begin their annual Spring Football "kiss a$$" with DD like he's the 2'nd coming of Vince Lombardy (and start trying to convince other NT Exes that for sure "next season" DD will have an offense that finally breaks into the NCAA D1-A top 80 ranked offenses. NOTE: Did any of you get your wish about NT Offensive Coord, ie, "In The Stands of Fouts Field Debate Champion" Ramon Flanagan BTW? Do you think all these experts in Denton listen to anything we ever say about "OUR" school's athletic program? AND SUDDENLY DD CHANGES HIS PHILOSOPHY AFTER 8 YEARS?............... why did it take DD 8 freakin' years to (apparently and finally) leave behind his famous "we want to play em' close till the end" philosopy? For him to say the following at a football banquet last Saturday has caused a few laughs and I paraphrase him from some of you who (laughlingly) told me what he said and that was: "I feel sorry for our opponents next season, we are going to kick their asses" (which I hope he really didn't use those exact choice of words since I understand there were several children at that FB Banquet). GangGreen, so you think Bobby Ray needs to go ahead and give DD yet another contract extension because of that most bold statement he made at the FB Banquet? And FWIW and beggin' your pardon, but it really seems to be you who is UNT's version of Art Bell because of your accepting of one of the strangest, unusual and wierdest college football coaching careers that I've witnessed (or even heard about) in my 40 plus years of following NCAA Divsion One football. GangGreen, all you and a hardy handful of others need with some of your posts about being excited about all this is the Twiilight Zone theme song. <>*<> Anyone who would gladly accept what we are getting at UNT are the Art Bells of UNT, ie, the "accepting of just about anything dished out to them" who have allowed all this crapola to create for them a scenario where they are the ones who have become a bit left of center and for damn sure a bit on the far side. The truth really will set you free for you who seem to be avoiding it. Many of us just no longer believe or trust NT leadership and the on-going Barnum and Bailey circus or charade of what they actually seem to think is a highly successful athletic program. Anyone can follow a bad act and look good. Yet still I simply defer to media guides of every UNT varsity sports program for the gospel truth with all this and the very reasons many will no longer continue to keep our heads stuck in the sand. That can be kind of suffocating if you do it too long and have you really doing some Art Bell style thinking for all the lack of oxygen. GIMMEE' A FREAKIN' BREAK WITH EVEN THIS: And new facilties at Eagle Point (except the main one that would make a big difference in our football program coupled with new leadership and that 35-40,000 seat facility that would advance our program like no one person could eve dream of doing. But unfortunately, that main facility have had no monies raised for it according to UNT's other AD, one, Mr. Bobby Ray). Someone please explain to some of us if UNT would really be able to remain in NCAA D1 and have a competitive NCAA D1-A athletic program (which we do not presently have as far as the mainstream of NCAA D1-A is concerned); anyway, would we really be able to keep our hands in play at the D1-A table if we were not building all these facilites at the MG Athletic Village? <>*<>*<> Come on for crissakes', it's like those poor, unfortunate hurricane victims who have been living in tents the last few months being told: "Hey! We are going to build you a nice frame house with indoor plumbing." "Aren't you all lucky to have us around doing all this just for you?"

Actually, it was recovered in Palo Pinto county, just west of Parker County.

First of all, it has been related to me that there have been a few thrown out of the Green Room before basketball games in recent years, but I was not one of them because I don't go to basketball games. It's college football that used to float my boat and make me proud to be an NT Ex. NOTE: Actually, 2 of those who were called out by an NT official (another Damn-Yankee NT employee who has somehow gotten himself misplaced in Texas) and publicly embarrassed those 2 in front of a group of "OUR" alums are actually posters on this board. One of them gives the MG Club probably about 10 X's more than anyone on this board (or at least he will have used to have given that kind of money of which after this academic year will most likely cease is my strong guess). If I revealed his name, he'd call his cousin Guido from Sicily to come pay a visit to me out here in Parker County, Texas. NOTE II: FWIW, I have also had a run-in with this same self-serving and arrogant NT athletic employee in the past over something called Kids Korner. I don't know why this particular "non UNT" grad has seemed to have proclaimed himself as our 3'rd athletic director (behind Bobby Ray and Rick V, of course). Secondly, I have said on many occasions that I don't necessarilly post some of this repetitive stuff for regular GMG.com readers. How many times have I suggested to some that they might not necessarily want to read some of this repetition? It's not intended for regular readers or posters. Yet the (so called) method to my madness with much of this is that it has been brought to my attention in the past that there are many who lurk GMG.com (from campus and beyond) almost daily and I just want some of those first time curiosity seekers to read some of this so they will understand that this NT Ex (as well as many others) are simply not going to be sucked into all this anymore; nor are we going to be sucked in by the very one thing that has kept this program small time for way too long now and operating at a low profile manner than anything else at UNT and that is..........A-P-A-T-H-Y. While many of our group have slumbered for the last few years, apathy at UNT has allowed many to continue on our payroll who should have been asked to hit the road a long time ago and a sure-fire hint of why that (perhaps) should have happened? How about the fact that schools (at any level) are hardly knocking those NT athletic employee's doors down to hire them away from our alma mater? You mentioned a couple of assistant coaches who (in deed) bettered themselves, but those are just 2 BB's in the bucket compared to the hundreds and hundreds of NT staffers many of us have seen come and go in past years. DICKEY BALL? You see, we have people who simple don't like Dickey's style of football period and thats whether they like the man or not. Personally, I don't know him enough to like or dislike him, but one can now see results that those outside this message board, our campus or Denton hardly recognize as any semblance of success at the level we play. Look at CUSA schools who have dissed us on their message boards for years saying we could not compete in their league? Well, for all except one year, haven't they been pretty well right on with their ascertation and perceptions of Mean Green football? After all, we have lost to the 4'th place CUSA teams in our last 2 bowl appearances. RECRUITING? I think our "non listings" of any potential NT recruits in the Dallas Morning News "AREA" Top 100 says much about how Metroplexers feel about what we are doing in Denton. What else do we have to go by as our barometer as far as recruiting goes, folks? RECRUITING II: How do we ever recruit skill position people at UNT when they look at our MG offense rankings the last 8 years (as compared to the other 119 NCAA D1-A schools)? How do we recruit skill people when they don't have a clue as to how their skills will be used at UNT? Tight ends? Just how many passes get thrown to a tight end at UNT? RECRUITING III: Look what the last 2-3 classes culminated into this last football season (andafter all those bowl years to boot as the SBC/Bottom 10 bowl rep)? Some of you are being sucked into this upcoming recruiting class just as the last previous 2-3 classes. AND......who are the schools listed other than UNT who wants these recruits? Just because you see Texas Tech listed besides one of our potential recruits names usually means that recruit was interested in Texas Tech, but Texas Tech was really not interested in that recruit. Just watch out for more disguised, veiled, smoke and mirror-type success because you will be in for another huge "low profile-producing" disappointment in Mean Green Country with all this. TRULY................Didn't losses to FAU, Tulsa and La Tech tell you all what you really need to know with whats really going on with this football program? HALF FULL/HALF EMPTY? Nominal attendance at Fouts for a football program that has gone to 4 bowls is also a pretty fair barometer of how even Denton area citizens are accepting this athletic program. 15K per game averages after 4 bowl games? Marketing 101 would tell us that people buy (tickets) from people they like.