PlummMeanGreen

SUNDAY MORNING COMIN' DOWN..........(if something stinks, don't you usually get around to saying something about the aroma that surrounds you and don't most do something about it)? The key word in your post, MrStranger62, is, uh, e-r-e-c-t-i-n-g; you know, like in the old baby boomer toy we had back in the day which was called an.........."erector set?" ERECTOR SET?!?!?!?!? Is that what we are using to build this new softball stadium for crissakes? NOTE: Good golly Miss Molly, might there even be some Texas 5A high schools with better softball facilities? CONSPIRACY THEORY COMIN' AT YA' ! lol! Is all this like the "less than inspriing" softball facilitey and other such (I'm sure) planned similar facilities happening at our alma mater mean't to be some kind of a joke or punishment aimed at a growing army (trust me on that one) who are really getting concerned now about what they feel they are getting up there in MG Country (and some who are just now beginning to voice their sincere and dire concerns for the first time--& not necessarily on this forum, either)? <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> I HAD A MEAN GREEN NIGHTMARE JUST THE OTHER NIGHT: I dreamed NT AD Rick V gave all our "non-productive/not even close to .500 in wins/losses after many years of trying" another 5 years of extended contracts (on top the extensions they already have) and then Rick V made this announcement: "Yall have fun now, ya' hear, I now have a new job--SEE YA' LATER NORTH TEXAS STATE!" ...................................................................................... Are we going to end up with a bunch of 1-AA'ish type facilities at our Eagle Point Campus, fellow NT Exes/Mean Green fans? I haven't been up lately, but is the new tennis complex a truly NCAA D1-A kind of complex we can all be proud of? Anyone want to volunteer to give a critique on our new tennis complex? Thanks in advance to you who does that. (Even wonder what Mr. Warranch thinks about his own name-sake facility--golly, I hope he doesn't get disappointed with the end results). A TRUE MEAN GREEN SHOCKER! ! ! ! ! ! Yet I just now today looked at the link of the new UNT softball "complex" and I am in total unadulterated shock. Will our NT Board of Regents just about rubber-stamp or approve anything when it comes to UNT Athletics and what they are dishing out to our entire NT community for us to get to look at (and sit in) for decades to come? (Hey! They are short termers while the majority of us are long termers). These are just not the best of times at UNT compared to the actual real bonafide "upwardly mobile" direction that our NT athletic program used to have at one time, but that was another era many years ago with what we can all now assume were much more talented employees with a "just don't talk about it but just get the damn job done" mindset and for damn sure that group who were respected among most of the NT alumnus base. .................................................................................................................. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE PHILOSOPHY WE USED TO SAY WE HAD AT ONE TIME WHICH WAS: "If you can't build it to be and look first class---THEN DON'T BUILD THE DAMN THING AT ALL? .................................................................................................................. AND NOW A PRAYER FROM A MEAN GREEN INFIDEL: O Lord Almighty, please do put an end to all of this soon. Show all of us who have seen better and want better again Divine Intervention if you must. Amen........... (Heckbells! All this at UNT is even driving me to religion). UNT Phd graduate "Dr. Phil" McGraw will probably be next on the dockets for many of us who can really tell some of you young gun alums that we really have had something to be exicted about this athletic program in another era BUT......... at a much higher profile (which is the key to all of this). ???????????????????????????????????????????????????? PS: When will winning the SBC tourney and actually winning a first round game in the NCAA basketball tournament actually be a criteria to stay on the NT payroll? The SBC is hardly the bell cow of NCAA D1-A, sports fans, so just being competitive in the SBC shouldn't be our standard at UNT, should it? HOW NOW BROWN (uh, green) COW? Are we always going to be a contented herd of cows out in a pasture chewing our cuds with heads looking continuosly downward oblivious to what is happening around us? Oblivious to the fact that while we chew our cuds in a "business as usual/no questions asked" mode that there is actually a raging, wind-driven north Texas prairie fire surrounding our entire herd and all that driven by the continuous "non results" (inside and outside the SBC) we are now getting "across the board" in MG Country? So go ahead (and since we are in this "tear down" mode up at UNT these days); just go ahead and tear down that poor NCAA D1-A excuse of a softball stadium and just start over from scratch if we have to, but pleeeezzzzzzzzzzz, get it right the 2'nd time around? Hey! Let's let NCAA 1-AA "Sam Houston State" (sorry, general Sam) be our role model with all this, eh? Just no upwardly bound direction in Denton from those who are hardly believeable anymore, folks, that's all. Wouldn't be so bad if all this were happening anywhere but the University of North Texas. Have A Nice Day!

Overheard in NT Athletic Dept: "Yeah, and lets have our Spring (winter) Football Game (once again) on a weeknight so we can have even fewer of those "wascally wabbit" D-FW NT Exes/Mean Green fan types many of whom we know cannot do a weeknight Spring game AND............some of that group who have the audacity of wanting more than SBC successes (with even its football champion annual rankings being somewhere between #90 thru #117) or those NT Exes thinking they want the kind of quality with MG football that would put it inside Top 50 rankings every year." What the hell they trying to do anyway, shake up our little utopian "low set goals/low expecations" co-existence up here in Denton?" Funny cartoon, ADLER, and I get it..............or what I perceive you to be saying with that cartoon. PS: And Silver Eagle from your post, AD/Head Football Coach Hayden Fry called his fund-raising arm of NT athletics the "Mean Green/Eagle Club." In fact, I think SUMG may have been the first ever to join that inaugural fund-raising arm of Mean Green athletics back in the 1970's as an NT student. Also, amazing from Dr. Roger's book about NT with all our older nestors own self-serving legacy about Fry (which was to bring all this high profile buisness Fry aimed for back in his day back down to their own mediocre levels of existance in many of their cases); yet some of those older fossils up there (some still amazingly on our payroll) who try to persevere that $1 million deficit theme when the subject of Hayden Fry is brought up. Hellsbells, it is my understanding that many NCAA D-1 athletic departments operated with such defecits (or even worse) during that era. AND...............FWIW, Hayden Fry probably gave our school (what?) millions of dollars worth of publicity in our 1975 MG football season alone which included a win over the UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE VOLUNTEERS (among other high profile wins during his tenureship in Denton). And Fry surely did hack off some of our usual old furniture fixture employee-types on campus who really wanted football to die a slow death post Rod Rust. Seems they didn't get their wish on that, too. Sometimes almost difficult to believe that UNT is even a Texas university with some of the weirdness that comes from our campus and in Denton with such an attitude that doesn't take a new citizen (or a new NT student) to see is just a part of the landscape up there. YET...........those Dentonites who are MG fans are as good as they get, but its the majority of their fellow citizens that makes one want to continually scratch their heads as one who has observed all this since January of 1972. Also, Fry got his job offer to the Big 10 and Iowa because of the (high profile) name schools his teams beat while being able to do so recruiting with much lesser on campus facilities than we have today. In fact, the NT football facilities back in the 1970's would almost be considered laughable (if not for the fact that it was such a sad statement for all of us back then of NT as to what Fry really had to work with back in that day). We were really lucky to have the future College Football Hall of Fame coach at UNT for even 6 years truth be known. We now need the 2'nd Coming of a Hayden Fry type that will raise our expectations once again, raise the bar, get us inside the Top 50 of the best D1-A football schools and (once again) create reasons for NT Exes to be proud of their alma mater once again as to where many would want to invest in it again and not feel they are throwing good money after bad. THROWING GOOD MONEY AFTER Bad? Again, check out all the NT media guides and the W/L records you'd see of coaches who have been on the NT payroll long enough to at least reach .500 and better. And if you take all the 1-AA wins or SBC wins (basically 1-AA type schools, aren'th they?) away and then see what NT coaches multi-year career W/L records would look like.

LOL! Well, you have to be exposed to those who you suggest (and I know you are being most tongue-in-cheek); anyway, you have to be exposed to those who you very humorously suggests might be doing all the food poisoining, SUMG. And for me, being to exposed to all that is not going to happen for awhile until I suppose its going to have to be good ol' Mother Nature herself who takes care of all this going on in MG Country since UNT leaders seem to rubberstamp just about anything relating to NT Athletics that crosses their desks. Sorta' sad, too, that these same leaders are hardly asking longtime MG fans and NT Exes their opinions on what they they really think to be the "state of the MG union" up in Denton (and doing so w/o wearing those green smudged glasses). Oh well, guess many of us will just have to bide some time until many others see what they really have up there, Johnny. PS: And I am praying for more rain, we got about 4 inches out here in Parker County last week, my pond is full and they are talking rain tonight! What about Texarkana, have yall gotten some rain? NOW MUST GO TO WORK!

Probably the most unusual NCAA D1-A head football coaching job I've witnessed in 40+ years as a college football fan. Just wish it weren't our alma mater that all this were happening as I know many of you now feel (and some who still for whatever reasons don't won't to publicly admit). Adding insult to injury is the arrogance that has been exhibited by those who seem to think SBC/Botttom 10 successes will get them a Big 10 or Big 12 job. Some of that same arrogance we've all heard on the radio airwaves to boot and what some would consider a much too regular and on-going basis. And an NT coaching job persevered by the cold, blatant fact that DD has been having a turkey shoot with the "sisters of the SBC poor" to keep this thing continuing and (subsequently) preventing our alma mater from going to the next level (since this level seems to be just fine for some of our present UNT leadership). I wonder if that same UNT leadership would get just as giddy if they beat their own sisters in tennis matchups 4 years in a row. From all appearances, I think they would. Have A Nice Day!

Exactly, Eagle-96, do we suddenly have Joe Greene and Cedric Hardman coming back to Denton with a surprise one year of collegiate elgibility? Many on this forum seem to all still be depending on unproven projects to come thru next year on the MG defense, just like DD depends on many of his JUCO projects to come thru as well. We need all (including coaches) to come thru that will enable us to join such programs as that of ex Big West conference foe Boise State. They seemed to set (and reach) much bigger goals for their football program once they left the Big West. We seem to be running in place and still can't even smell a significant OOC win in recent years. What concerns me as much as all the mediocre types on our athletic staff (check all your NT media guides and all their cumlative records for proof on that); but even more are some fans/alums who seem to have not seen the same team most of us saw last football season. Jeez, I know Spring (excuse me, Winter) football is the time to be eternally optimistic as we turn average players into 1'st team All Americans, but lets not lose complete objectivity with all this. Merely winning the SBC but not even getting inside the Top 50 while doing that in the past should prove to all that we are getting about all what we are going to get with present group (and I don't know how many more years some of our leaders and some well intentioned fans need to figure that fact out), but for damn sure many will be glad when this era of low set goals/low expectation is over so we can get back on the high road set long ago in Denton by those who thought just a tad bigger than that of SBC level competition. Hope for some of our older fans and alums this happens soon. We alums (or NT Exes) and fans need to play a part in seeing that our alma mater gets rid of this newly sprung concept up in Denton that you can pretty well do a mediocre (or even lousy job in some cases) at UNT and still retire comfortably at the Top of the Golden Triangle. Not sure that happens anywhere else that I am aware of and for damn sure knows it doesn't happen in the non-collegiate work-a-day world. With the 2006 NT football schedule I see from GrayEagleOne's post, IMHO we will have no wins in OOC next year and might (at best) break even in the SBC which will (of late) probably be enough to get Darrell Dickey and all his crowd another contract extension from his vacation pal, ie, Bobby Ray. (Has this become a Mean Green nightmare for many of us out here who expect much more)? Wonder what it will take to get rid of the real source of all this low expectation or the one who just keeps on rubber-stamping all this low performance we are getting in the NT athletic department across the board and what it will take to get him re-assigned back to his home-building business?!?!? LOL! Some of you really enjoying all this we have going on at our alma mater, though? If so, tell the rest of us as to why we should also be enjoying this as well (w/o getting into the "rah rah" be true to your school stuff because none of that has yet to turn perrenial mediocre athletic staff types into world-beaters FWIW). Yet give us some facts or data as to why we should all be looking forward to a higher profile athletic future with this present group in the NT Athletic Dept.--we're all ears out here and really want to have something to rally behind for a change. Pardon me for now, mother nature (keeps on) a-callin'. (Does Kayopectate take care of a light case of probable food poisoning)?

Most of us are steeped in the traditions and memories of the leftover SWC schools that had such opponents like UT, Arkansas and TAMU for their opponents for most of the last century. It was against such schools as those that the leftover SWC had their best gate receipts for most of the history of the SWC. Right now, CUSA is (basically) a handful of SWC "has beens/used to be's" who (and if you dare look at box scores, ie, low attendance figures with their games against each other) which show one of the prime reasons there was such an easy split of the SWC as far as those going to the Big 12 were concerned. The 4 schools who left for the Big 12 took about one minute to mourn their SWC tradition and all the nostalgia that went with it while most all the ex SWC schools are still in mourning over the split with what was a pretty nice cash cow for their schools. You know, like when you play most of the SWC schools now in the Big 12 you could count on anywhere from 10K-15K visiting fans going to SWC leftover schools in Houston, Dallas and Fort Worth? TCU has done the best recovery job of all this post SWC divorce or split scenario. As as been posted many times, the main advantage of a CUSA membership would be proximity to schools we would like to think would be our natural rivals; only thing is, most of that group still think of UNT as an "un-natural" rival for each of their schools. Rivalry you say? We play SMU about once or twice every decade or so, so is that really, truly a rival? It may take another half century (or more) to change all that "non-rivalry" attitude we get from all the SWC leftovers, too. UNT'S FLY IN THE OINTMENT WITH CUSA? For starters (and most likely enders)----Southern Methodist University. Does the Texas contingency of CUSA really want another Texas schools whose entire athletic program is in a down cycle (save women's soccer and on again/but mostly off for most of 17 years Lady Eagles BB program? When women's basketball at UNT can win a league title and actually get past the first round in post season play, then you have something you can hang your hats on for a change. Also, we still don't measure up with our overall football facilities and that was (apparently) pointed out to us by CUSA rep Chcuk Neinas when he was making his tour of "would be" new CUSA schools for membership 2 or 3 years ago now. Nothing has changed with a new stadium because whether we are all cylinders go with Mean Green football or even at the bottom of the SBC/Bottom 10, UNT will still need.............the Big Donor (and that has been the case from Day One when all the new stadium talk began). When UH football was at its worst (as I recall the scenario) was when the John J. Moores family of Houston gave UH $50 million to the school located off Cullen Blvd. in the Bayou City with about half of that ear-marked for Cougar athletics. It was a record for public universities at that time. The Moores have given more to UH athletics since is what I've also read. But at UNT---its still about getting that Big Donor and (especially now) I don't think we are a marketbable commodity for CUSA until we get their attention with a new football stadium and Mean Green football starts out-performing all their schools (especially the ones in Texas) with (most likely) our being in the Top 25 frequently which would get most any non BCS league's attention. Being at the top of the SBC/Bottom 10 is impressing fewer and fewer except those at UNT who hope that will keep them on the payroll with more extended contracts. Mean Green football must aim higher than what I feel too many seem to be satisified to accept with this present football program (of which meeting those low profile goals will interest few leagues that most on this board would like to see UNT elevate itself). I owe, I owe its off to work I go............Have A Nice Day!

'Twill be difficult to shake, Cerebus, until this present regime (who hath wrought to us all these new brandings) are gone, that is. After some "NT graduated" (I should add) locals took over our Athetic Dept. post the HaydenFry/Jerry Moore era's, some of you young gun alums should have seen just how quickly it took that new group of NT leadership in the athletic dept. to get rid of "Fry's Flying Worm" (along with Fry's more grandiose dreams so they could replace those with their logos and much lower-profile non-dreams). FYI: Of course, "Fry's Flying Worm" logo was created by GMG.com poster, one Mr Rick Spears aka GreanGrenade II, for some of you newer posters or lurkers on this forum who didn't know. NOTE: Many of us had hoped UNT finally had a long-running helmet logo such as UT, SMU and others have and would "NEVER" change our helmet logo no matter who we hired and for whatever decade they were hired. That just wasn't in the cards I guess we can all say now. right? The new brandings have grown on many of us, but the overall planning and campus inter-departmental coordination and cooperation with those groups all of whom could have played strategic roles in helping get the word out to the local, regional (and with an ESPN TV broadcast from Fouts Field last Fall) even a national audience for all of the aforementioned groups to see that branding changes had been made at UNT. That would have been even more important (for example) if NT Exes from Vermont, Oregon, Montana, etc, etc, who viewed the national telecasts and who are not on any of NT's mailing lists may have very well been inspired to contact UNT to get back on various mail lists to the departments of their choice as to keep up with their alma mater (and their alma mater to keep up with them as well). Who knows, maybe such far flung alums would have asked vendors in those faraway outposts questions such as "why don't yall carry the new Mean Green gear as seen on ESPN." It was truly a lost opportunity by the NT Branding Committee and only because they didn't plan all this much further in advance. Hope that trend is also not a sign of things to come with every department at UNT being an island unto themselves. We've had all that before at UNT and we sure don't need to repeat those days all over again. YET................for instance, shouldn't our UNT AD have been informed of these impending new UNT brandings long before he (apparently) was so he could have coordinated all the new major changes by ordering of all UNT's varsity unis' even with the right shade of green (which some of you posted have not even always been available or easy to get as it is) AND now further proof on no advanced planning...............one merely has to look at the Green Brigade marching bands new uniforms (that they will wear for about 10 years)? As impressive as some of us feel those unis' are, they are still not in compliance with what the NT Branding Committee had in mind for all campus groups to be on the same page with their new creations along with the new shade of green than we had been using................AND FWIW, what 2 groups on the NT campus are 2 of the most visible to the public that we have that gets all the TV coverage? The UNT Branding Committee for a project as huge and expensive as a university's new branding project is should have planned all this like we as NT Exes expect from our alma mater and they just simply should have gotten the word out much further in advance to all campus groups so that they could have had ample time to become compliant with the new changes. So just where did the buck stop with such oversights that now have our Green Brigade land-locked into wearing a different shade of green than the new official shade of green? Anyway, the NT Branding Committee (of which one of its members erroneously sent out an email to one of this board's regular posters as well as one of our best alums/fans; and with that email saying that they (the branding committee) didn't have to answer to anyone on this board. (Who actually said that they did in the first place)? Granted (and in all actuallity) they for sure didn't have to answer to anyone on this board or any other board of NT enthusiasts, but with many of us, it was more the attitude and spirit of which that email was mistakenly sent that reeked and seemed to show a whole new attitude on our campus (that Pohl would have never been part of) with NT's new leadership (at the very, very top) that seemed like the kind of attitude one might expect coming from those who may have been schooled or educated at a private university (where Elitism 101 seems to be a required course in order to graduate). Just my .02

Well, I guess its always good to be loved (as long as its done within the Biblical sort of way and perspective if you know what I mean)? But as far as your fishing trips go, Quoner, you could pick better company to do that with, right? A TOAST TO BETTER TOMORROWS IN MEAN GREEN COUNTRY AND............... GOD BLESS TEXAS! That's all and I'm out of here..................... (for now). }:>)

Fair enough, H-towngreen, but I will not go there with the comments concerning the "Q" man on the great Johnny Quinn! LOL! I do 100% support our Mean Green football players, I just think they could be better coached and disciplined which would give them all a chance to be successful as a team (but enough of all that). I did like the some of what you said in the last paragraph of your post, though. In fact, I liked it very much! I just think some of what you said in your last paragraph is the future in Mean Green Country and what will be the very thing that will catapult us to Top 25. Hellsbells! Even Mean Joe Greene once told a bunch of us that NORTH TEXAS should strive to be national champion (and he mean't at the NCAA D1-A level, too). BTW, I came in 2'nd in my 3'rd grade spelling bee contest. And for my reward from the home front, I got a .19 cent hamburger (cut the onions) and chocolate milk shake over in Angleton, Texas, at the local "Short Stop" burger place. Back in that day, it didn't take much to please me.

OK, MG61, I will tell cousin Guido from Sicily to back off and that you are no longer required to read any of my post any longer (as you had been forced to do previously); and especially if they are going to get your blood pressure way up and drive you further into the complete support of stark inter-collegiate athletic mediocrity at our very own alma mater. GUIDO, IF YOU ARE READING THIS..............GO BACK HOME! ENJOY SOME FETTUCINE ON ME OL' PAL!

REVISED................ Very good, Mr. Curtis and we are all proud of that 3'rd grade achievement, too. I just wanted the "Q" man to admit that he/she is probably an NT Athletic Dept. employee and that is the vantage point from which he/she made his/her remarks toward me. 'Tis a free country, anyone can say what they want to say and FWIW, I can take handle what some have allege I have maliciously dished out that they are not in complete agreement. FOR WHAT ITS WORTH, THOUGH. Its just all that I have suggested I feel will make NT Exes get back to point to where we can "ALL" be proud of being Mean Green once again. I have no personal gain in all this that I have posted and even knew I would take some personal ridicule and swipes aimed at me because of it, but what the hell, my bloodline comes from one of the first appointed Texas Rangers back in 1833 and he was mean as hell according to family tradition, but all was not lost because he he did have a soft spot for women folk and his Methodist'ism it seems as well. LOL! BUT................Some of our NT athletic department employees can't fully seem to fathom that many of us actually think we can do better (once again) in Denton, but the part they don't want to accept it that it will probably be none of them who will be around to help make us better since most of them have had a few years to do so and haven't yet delivered us out of our present NCAA D1-A wilderness. I have to ask this question to you, H=towngreen and I'm not being facetious here at all: Just what is the hook that has you supporting Darrell Dickey as the man to lead us at UNT in our football program in light of where his leadership after 8 years presently has our football program in context with all the other 117 schools in NCAA D1-A? Just curious.....

As much as I post? Aren't you somewhat the pot calling the kettle black with that statement, MG61? Come on, MG61, for once show us some spine and please at some point do consider refraining from kissin' up to a Darrell Dickey-led program with all its mediocrity and veiled success. The truth will even set our mature citizens free, too, if they'd only let it seep in. And FWIW, I don't question what amount anyone gives to UNT and neither should you even in all your senior citizen wisdom, MG61. I will give to UNT, but it will probably be to the UNT History Dept. that will get my of most humble financial gifts until about half of the present UNT athletic department have found the Red River (and then cross over it with suitcases in hand). Probably should have been giving to our history department all along if (even more) truth be known. But its just like another alum said to me just the other day when he said this via telephone: "You know, what concerns me even more than all the sub par coaches hirings we keep getting in Mean Green Country, but moreso all those NT Exes who just keep on kissin' up to it all and (strangely) just keep supporting NCAA D1-A life at the bottom of the barrell", with a football program showing no noticable trends that indicate much in the area of improvement will take place and every bit of this with no questions asked to present NT leadership who are giving all of this to us." Have A Nice Day!

Yet another poster hiding behind a moniker. And just who are you, "Q"man? Are you employed at UNT or even in the UNT Athletic Department as I suspect? If so, I'm sorry because your resume' will also not impress many in NCAA D1-A. FWIW, I've followed all this pretty faithfully for 33 years and those who I count to be my true (longtime) friends on this board, know just exactly where I'm coming from and sorry to disappiont you, but many of them also thought that Mean Green flag sucked too! Sincerely, James G. Plummer, Jr., aka PlummMeanGreen (PMG) ** Proud 6'th Generation Texan (who now likes even fewer from the Jayhawk state of Kansas and that for what they are doing to my alma mate's athletic program-----damn Yankees)! ** UNT Class of 1976 ** Ulys Knight Spirit Award (1996)................you think even ol' Ulys would have supported this crappy athletic program for much longer? You know an NT athletic program that just keeps on persevering one varsity head basketball coaches Denton career now going on 17 years with .500 nowhere in sight for her career and..................an athletic department that even has a past legacy of having hired Dennis Parker over Dennis Francione? You think that many of us don't have reason for some concern and to ask questions to all our "self annointed" sacred cows up in Denton, "Q?" So isn't it really time that many more on this board start showing some spine, growing some gonads, exhibiting less "kiss up" and just start asking some very important questions as to why NT leaders just keep on a-rubber-stampin' all this subterranean mediocrity on an annual basis? Now again, uh, Quoner(?)............just who are you and what are your NT ties. If you are so concerned and so opinionated about all this you really won't mind that others know who you are, now would you? (Or is there a real need for you to hide behind your moniker)? So............"Did You All Like That?" (famous quote from yet another misplaced Kansan & "would be" Texan in the MGRN). AND YOU INFER THAT "I" NEED, uh, ATTENTION? As a "quasi-musician" I get all the attention I need when I get the 12 string out, sing a little Gordon Lightfooot and sing solo or in an ensemble at my local church. Boy, what a rush of attention all that is for me! LOL!

All Kansans are all called Jayhawks, UNTLifer. Come on now, show us that UNT education!

A POTPOURRI OF VARIOUS THOUGHTS ON JOURNEYMAN FOOTBALL COACHES AND THE VEILED SUCCESS OF DICKEY BALL...........You like it? Then you finance it! Yeah, but 5 jobs in 10 years, Baby Arm? Do you really think if Jim Dickey and Craig Helwig had not been big buddies that UNT would have gone to SMU to hire one who had been on there payroll for even just one year? Trust me, Dickey was not what the doctor orderred for those of us who (gasp!) actually have North Texas ties for crissakes'? All you that love Dickey Ball, how much you going to give toward it this next Fall? Have any of you ever given to it period is the question I've seen raised on this forum many times. Its easy to give "free" HSO's (hot sports opinions for those who are sorta' new to sports smack boards) but is it so easy to give to SBC/Bottom 10 level football that garnered DD 4 "big" coach of the year awards? Pleeezzzzzzzzzzz, spare us with even that! UNT ATHLETIC STAFFERS PLEASE DO HONOR THIS REQUEST: I am saying this one time and to those in the UNT Athletic Dept. many of whom we know read this forum so.............. do read this and please do act on this today: Take my name off any of your mailing lists ASAP because you are wasting your postage with this NT alum as long as UNT continues to have one of the worst athletic programs in NCAA D1-A. A program that has even buffalo'd' way too many of our alums thinking we have really pulled it off on the rest of the college football world with SBC/Bottom 10 disguised and veiled success. THIS FOR ANY UNT ATHLETIC STAFFER (and please pass this on if you will): I believe all that I have given the MG Club this academic year more than covers any gift (a funky lookin' NT flag that I wouldn't hang at a dog fight) I've received and if you even want those few items back, then let me know and I'll gladly mail those back ASAP. NOTE: FWIW, most of us who have given to the MG Club in the past have always really prefered to have had all those monies go to scholarships, not gifts since you cannot write off gifts with the IRS. Comprende? So Baby Arm (even your moniker is demeaning and an insult to those who were sadly born with that physical handicap and I don't think that funny at all, do you?...........But BA, you and and a hardy handful of others who I question their real desires to see our school excel at the level of athletics we play; anyway, you all have your man for at least one more season, so enjoy all the condescending radio comments and all the undisciplined style of football you all will continue to get. I mean its like they say, "you can't take stripes off a zebra." Dickey Ball may play a pro style offense in Spring (winter) Football the next few days, but come September it's back to, uh....................DICKEY BALL! JUST MORE SCATTERSHOOTIN'............. Also continue to accept the fact that the UNT Athletic Dept. seems to have no control of its own with all the drama some of its personnel have publicly produced for all to see as they verbally acosted some of our fans in the stands of Fouts Field last Fall. "You All (really) Like That?" And enjoy life in NCAA D1-A (come on now, are we "really" a NCAA D1-A school the way we have been operating in Denton of late?); but enjoy NCAA D1-A life in a subterranean co-existence in or near what some call the Bottom 10. BA, did one national recruiting service saying UNT had finished last among all other 117 schools of NCAA D1-A give you (and others) a subtle hint of what "OUR" own version of a jouneyman assistant coach is really all about as far as what his leadership is producing for Mean Green fans and NT Exes? ??????????...........Have the last 3 or 4 NT recruiting classes really caused you and others to join the MG Club for the first time ever, increase your MG Club donations or even buy an extra season ticket or 2? Well, mine have ceased and I know others (of which some of their names would suprise even some in the NT Athletic Dept) will also cease theirs because money seems to be the only thing that catches most people's attention in our American society. Think that will get Bobby Ray's attention? The amazing phenemona in all this are all the bonafide woodies a hardy handful of you still seem to get when the Mean Green beat such powerhouse schools such as ULM, MUTS, ASU, ULaLa and others similar, but you overlook the fact that DD winning an OOC game is still (even 8 years later going on 9) only a pipe dream in Denton for that particular journeyman assistant and "would be" NCAA D1-A head football coach. BTW, while on that sujbect, there is really nothing wrong with being a journeyman assistant coach because that is most likely what Darrell Dickey's future will be once some of our inter-collegiate athletic experts on campus figure out what the hell have given to the rest of us with DD in charge. You think smaller donations and smaller crowds toward the end of next season will make an indellible impression on some of that group at the top? I do.............. Yet on all ths aforementioned SBC schools, anyone else notice how far up the NCAA D1-A food chain beating that group (when we used to do that) has gotten us? STOP THE PRESS! I forgot that it got "your" boy of Dickey Ball fame 4 big time coach of the year (gimmee' a freakin' break) awards! And its no wonder (whatsoever) why Darrell Dickey worships Wright Waters so damn much---Hellsbells! WW's and his SBC/Bottom 10 conference saved DD's NT coaching career's ass since the Big West with one of its school a future top 25 fixture wasn't exactly doing it. So did our very own home grown intercollegiate hiring expert and big time contract negotiator, one Mr. Bobby Ray really need to have extended DD's contract well into the next decade instead of one year here--one year there--one year everywhere? Did he cut his and his family's vacation buddy off a bit short then? Well, some of us will (hopefully) in our own way help Bobby Ray make a decision he should have kept his nose out of 6 years ago in Monroe, LA, when he over-ruled the firing of Darrell Dickey. What if DD would have been replaced by a Mike Price type of hire? Where would we be today among all 117 schools in NCAA D1-A. Instead..................where is Dickey Ball now ranked among those elite 117 schools? Very lucky for Mr. Ray that his boy DD was the head football in Wright Water's new league of a bunch of college football misfits and a league of which most its members were in the NCAA D1-A Bottom 10 when DD was going bowling and winning, uh, SBC coach of the year awards . Are some of you so really naive' with all this as to continue to accept all this? If so, I have some prime swamp land out here in Parker County I think I could sell to a hardy handful of you quite easily, after all, some of you have bought into Dickey Ball, right? SO JUST WHEN & WHERE DO THE BUCK$ STOP? ? ? ? ? ? ? Some will now have the total satisfaction of knowing that their non-giving to NT Athletics with whatever amount they gave will no longer play any part in helping to enable Bobby Ray to keep he and his family's favorite vacation buddy in town. I'd encourage others to do the same and either put what you would normally give in a special account (as suggested by SUMG) and then those monies that will be returned to NT Athletics once about half of those "would be" Denton retirees employed in the NT athletic department take their, uh, "special" Bottom 10 talents and skills elsewhere. Let some new schools discover all the joys they've given to ours. If NT Exes own feelings and attitudes which have been made to Mr. Ray in person or by mail are still not enough; if all these things which our Napoleon of the North is (trust me) most aware and if he continues to keep his head buried in the sand not really fully understanding just how pissed off Darrell Dickey and his smart ass condescending radio attitudes the last 4 or 5 years have created with a very large part of the Mean Green Nation, then lets just be the first Texas public university to have our little Napoleon and NT chairman of the Board of Regents recalled. (Hey Bobby! In other words, get out of the college athletic business, keep your day job and you and "non PHD" chancellor Lee Jackson just go out and build yalls (and Royce West') University of North Texas-Dallas campus)! Any chance we ever had of making UNT-Denton a truly great university has now literally gone south (as in south Dallas county). Just the fact that so few (except that same handful who really prefer what they are getting with this program; anyway, if NT leadership is really bending over backwards with the hire of a journeyman assistant football coach that even they themselves had not one say in his hiring lets just hit em' where it hurt$ and what will get their undivded attention. Lets do the very thing that gets any successful bu$ine$$man's attention and therefore reduce that part of this equation up in Denton so our NT leadership (in deed) do get the message loud and clear from a rather large and growing army of NT Exes who can (quite frankly) live w/o Mean Green athletics under its present leadership. AND IN CLOSING.................... ............................................................................................................. The risk of reducing alumnus funding to enable Dickey Ball to continue in with its 8 years of a lower level co-existance and such a risk that a handful of you will probably suggest this will create will (in the opinion of many) more than be worth the risk to produce the kind of results AND rewards that all of us in Mean Green Country deserve to have once again. So you who love Dickey Ball, give to it non-stop to make up for those who no longer will support this kind of college football. .............................................................................................................

Over most of the last 30 plus years, few NT assistant coaches have moved up beyond the level of UNT. Some actually followed this close enough to know. In fact, many ex NT football coaches (head coach or assistants) even went back to the high school level. I believe Corky Nelson even did that when he became head football coach at Seguin High School if memory serves me well. Corky Nelson was a better coach than DD and was probably in a tougher conference back (SLC) then that we are now. Perhaps Corky's wins over SWC schools during his career at UNT sorta' proves that concerning Corky over Dickey Ball? And for heaven's sake, MG61, are you and DD related? LOL! Never seen this kind of (apparent) loyalty to such blatant mediocrity and even toward a coach who has taken most every radio broadcasted opportunity he can muster to kick NT Exes around and his even having done the same with his very employer. (Still wonder if he would have said all those things he said on the radio in a room full of North Texas Exes--as in, uh, face to face)? Oh I forgot, we don't have quarerly meetings for such to take place. Yet this is the kind of thing you get from one who spent 10 prior to his receiving the NT job at 5 (I repeat, "FIVE") other assistant football coach jobs. Even a novice would be able to identify that as a journeyman assistant football coach with that many stopovers. Jeez! 5 jobs over the space of 10 years, folks? THIS FOR NEW LURKERS AND NEW READERS: SO WHY WAS ALL THIS ALLOWED TO HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE IN MEAN GREEN COUNTRY. THEN............ENTER THE JAYHAWKS LEST SOME OF YOU LURKERS OR NEW READERS DIDN'T KNOW THE HISTORY OF THIS EXTREMELY QUCKER THAN NORMAL CONTRACT SIGNING OF A HEAD FOOTBALL COACH @ UNT: So as UNT was getting over 3 years of yet another head football coaching job gone amuck with that job coming from the wrong "Dennis" (since Dennis Francione had wanted the NT job the same time Dennis Parker got the NT job); anyway, all this going on in MG Country before DD's daddy and Craig Helwig put their heads together and pulled off their little Jayhawk Jumble (you all know that dance, right............the, uh, "JJ"? Well, it's a celebration dance for those who know they've put a big one over a helluva' bunch of people. POST MATT SIMON: While a whole bunch of us on GMG.com and many in the NT community wondered when a head football coaches seach committee was going to be formed we then turn on the TV and watch the 6:00 o'clock sports to find to our total amazement that a new NT head football coach had already been signed to a contract (and with unbelievable with warp speed to boot). You know the kind of speed that would prevent any NT Exes from asking: WHO THE HELL IS DARRELL DICKEY (and shouldn't we have more than "one" man on our list of candidates for the Mean Green job)? AS GOOD OL' AGGIE CLAYTIE' WILLIAMS ONCE SAID: JUST LAY BACK AND ENJOY IT IF ITS INEVITABLE! So any of you still feel a bit violated over this Jayhawk-produced rape of our school, our alums, our fans and our football program? And this new group on the NT payroll that would have many NT Exes believing how being in the SBC/Bottom 10 wasn't so bad a thing since you still got to go to a bowl, right? And this same group showing by their actions (and recruiting) that you really didn't have to have those Top 25 rankings, either). Any of you feel violated when the Kansas Konnection pulled off the hiring of a head football coach who would have not have had a snowball's chance in hell of getting our job w/o that special "Kansas Konnection" and DD's hiring because of their most timely assistance in pulling this coup over a bunch of Texans? BIG QUESTION: IN YOUR LIFETIME...............any of you recall any journeyman assistant football coach like DD who had had 5 coaching stops in 10 years to get an NCAA D1-A head football coaches job? In my 40 plus years of following college football, I've never seen a job qute like the one we are getting in Denton. But with our pathetic track record of hiring at UNT, the sky is the limit on what NT leadership will deliver to us next in the area of whoever eventually replaces DD. So with that in mind, can we hope that even UNT's decision-makers may feel a special calling to dedicate all their time at their places of business and to just get out of the college athletics business?. So at UNT, its the time tested and old thing of garbage in--garbage out. You hire a journeyman assistant coach, you get SBC/Bottom 10...... "un"- success and wonder why no one in the local, regional or national media takes Mean Green football seriously? And (even sadder) don't we know by now that even the better Metroplex HS football players hardly know we exist (with or w/o an Athletic Center that we were even a few years behind some Southland Conference schools in building our's)? So...............If you like life as an NCAA D1-A bottom-feeder, then a few of you got your boy. But look for some to stop enabling all this by the personal funding of it. And speaking of money, don't the rest of you really want more bang for your buck with what all you are putting on the table for Dickey Ball?

I look forward to the day that the SMU's, the Tulsa's, the La Tech's and others similar do not continue to be our bell cow for Mean Green football, but rather our new bell cow at UNT be winning most games on our schedule annually that will actually garner the attention of the pollsters to the extent that it has the Boise State's, Bowling Green's, Fresno State's and others similar of which a Top 25 ranking is not a total stranger as it is annnually in Denton. We don't advance by being at the top of the Sun Belt but rather those SBC heights still keeps us at the bottom of NCAA D1-A. I still stand on my signature statement below and nothing short of this football program becoming (at the minimum) an NCAA D1-A Top 50 football program on a year-in-and-year-out basis will change my feelings. That is something I don't think we will get at this moment in our athletic history, though AND don't we have about 8 years of trends set under DD's leadership to substantiate that? Of all the schools presently stuck annually in the bottom quadrant of the 117 member NCAA D1-A, I still believe NORTH TEXAS with the right ones at the top making decisions that will take us to a higher profile inter-collegiate football existence and with all the right new faces in our coaches positions; anyway, I feel our alma mater can pull this off over any of the other schools presently ranked in the bottom quadrant of all 117 D1-A schools. FWIW and IMHO...........our being annually ranked (at each season's end) #90 thru #117 will not hold the interest of the kinds of fans we need to break this 15K per home game average we seem to be eternally land-locked into (and that even during a 4 bowl game run and.................what should have been a breakout season at the turnstiles last year with all of last summer's national pre-season publicity in our 5'th year following those 4 bowl years). But wasn't it more of the same last summer when it came to touting this football program to all the borderliners and casuals we need to help fill the other 15K empty seats at Fouts Field as to get that strategic group interested in purchasing those 2005 Mean Green football season tickets? Can't we all remember from our HS football playing days the workout we used to call, uh, running-in-place? Well, that seems to be where NT football is right now (and has been for awhile now) and that even during the best of times. We have to look at ourselves in context to the balance of NCAA D1-A outside the Sun Belt if we want to cease all this "running in place" mode we are mired in. JUST WHAT IS IT THAT THEY REALLY WANT UP THERE? We can do better at UNT, but if 8 or 9 years of the results we've all seen by the present coaching staff is not enough time to show all that we can do better at a higher profile in Denton, then just what are the objectives of Mean Green football as defined by our present NT leadership starting all the way at the very top............ .............many would be interested to know the answer to that question before decisions are made to make any further such investments into all this and those investments as they are now that are only (and merely) enabling our present leaders to keep doing things business as usual--with no questions asked seemedly from way too damn many even on the board. Have any of you ever seen a herd of sheep being led to the slaugher house? They just follow one right after the other till all the carnage begins. BUT BUSINESS AS USUAL I SAY THERE OL' CHAP (sorry, my English heritage slips out from time to time): With many of your's personal feelings on Ramon Flanagan the last few years, anyone else seem to notice that we still don't have a new offensive coordinator at UNT? You think that group up there really give a rat's ass what anyone from the NT community really thinks on such matters even with RF's most publicized public relations blunder inside the stands of Fouts Field just last season and the Mean Green's DFW area recruiting disaster (or embarrassment) that has to also be under his watch, too, right? Yet through it all, surely our present NT leaders each and every one know by now that a growing army from within the Mean Green Nation are no longer going to be content with doing things the way we've been doing them that has yet to regularly vault Mean Green football to be ranked even inside the NCAA D1-A top 75 football schools.

Bump... Don, anyway you can link that 1964 photo on this thread for others to see, too? Thanks in advance. JP

A SEARCHING QUESTION ADDITION ON THIS COOL'ISH THURSDAY: Phil, the YUCCA I saw that NT Band Day photo had "1964" on the cover as I recall. I am hoping Huff will link that color photo on this thread as he did send me that photo in an email. A 1964 FOUTS FIELD PHOTO COMMENT AND A SEARCHING QUESTION THAT NEEDS A VIABLE ANSWER IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT SOME TEXAS D1-A SCHOOLS STILL HAVE THEIR OWN BAND DAYS......................That 1964 photo has quite an impressive content of thousands upon thousands of Mean Green fans I must add........................Silver Eagle was one of an entire football field full of Texas HS bandsmen in that photo, too. AND NOW............THE QUESTION: Wonder how many football souvenir programs, NT gear items, hot dogs, colas, popcorn, peanuts, etc, etc, etc, all those bandsmen purchased on that Fall of 1964 Game Day? >>>> Wonder how many of that massive group of bandsmen made their decision to attend UNT because of their college Band Day experience in Denton, Texas, USA?

A FEW ADDITIONAL THURSDAY TID-BITS....... Baby Arm!, you're probably right about that, but I'd bet a large number of UNT graduated band directors who were all going to get honored by the UNT College of Music & NT Athletics at half time would make special arrangements to put such an event on his/her upcoming academic year planning calendar because you know these band directors would love to have each of their band members see "their" band director receive the special commendation, special recognition, praise and a nice plaque commermorating their big day? Most musicians have egos as big as most college jocks or sports types. (Ever watched the Grammy's for proof of that)? The high schools many of our NT-graduated marching band directors work of which many of those (3A, 4A and 5A) are putting in Field Turf, Astroturf, etc, etc, etc, @ about $800,000 in their old and new multi-jilliion "Texas H$" football stadiums, so it might just be time for the Texas, you know, like the license plates says, ie, "Deep in the Arts of Texas?" (or something like that); anyway, isn't it high time the arts crowd of our Texas public HS's get some semblance of equal time? Would a Band Day be so extravagent in comparision to what our Texas high school sports programs get? (Whoops, have I sudddenly stumbled into "sacred cow" territory once again here)?!?!?!?! LOL! WHY NOT US @ UNT? I believe Baylor and Texas Tech (and others across the USA) still have annual band days on a given Game Day each football season. Wonder how those 2 Texas universities can still pull this off when another Texas-based university in the northern part of Texas which is (only) the 2'nd largest College of Music in the USA seems to "ALWAYS" come up with all the reasons as to why we can't pull of a BAND DAY? Sorry, I did say I wasn't going to do this anymore, but hey already, I'm responding to a post, OK)?

DH, I am just now getting on GMG.com for the first time today, so I wasn't able to call you since its late even now. I also just sent you an email response, but I forgot to ask you this: Can you scan that photo on this GMG.com thread for all to see? Very impressive color photo of that NT Band Day back in 1964. Thanks in advance. JGP

Hey Phil, those are some great photos, but the one I am talking about was in the first introductory part of the 1964 YUCCA and it was even in living color, you know, like the NBC peacock?!?!? Jeez, now I am giving my age and era away with that, eh? LOL! Anway, that 1964 color photo was taken from a high crane or something because it showed the entire Fouts football field covered with bandsmen and a very large NT student crowd, just like your black and white photos also point out.

Don, I do really like Weatherford's Mesquite Grill (FW Hwy) quite a bit and I'll order the least expensive steak, too! LOL! . You and I have spoken about this on occasion and I agree that just asking HS band directors at random from this same area we recruit so heavily for Mean Green football players, ie, the Metroplex..........NOT...... (sorry, couldn't resist that one); anyway, if we just asked DFW area band directors with no NT ties to come to an NT Band Day (you are right, Don) they wouldn't.............But the following paragraph I feel is and has always been the key for a successful UNT Band Day, but there is just absolutely no one on campus who wants to tackle this huge promotion and a promo that is also a superb general student recruiting tool, ie, UNT Band Day on Game Day. UNT must have a jillion North Texas Exes who just happen to be HS band directors here in the Southwest and if UNT officials developed some rapport with them and even persuaded them to come back to their alma mater (with their HS bands with them, of course) for each NT Ex band director to receive a "special commendation" (and very nice plaque) at half time of an NT FB game and all this as recognized band director from their very own alma mater so thus, that would be our market for a UNT Band Day. But heck, Don, UNT is still trying to find out where all our other alums are located so I wouldn't bank on their even having such a list of HS band directors who are NT graduates. But still, that would be the main focuss group for a UNT Band Day that would have any chance of being successful. The real key to all of this would be some NT employee on who would take on this project, give it some legs and some hard work to make it successful one Game Day each football season. Bu I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for this to happen with this present group we have on campus and even under the formula of using all our NT Exes band directors and their bringing their bands to Fouts Field on a Game Day. Bets or no bets, lets do meet soon at Mesquite Grill (or wherever) some time in the future. But as you well know, good ol' Weatherford is just not that far from Azle as you would come down FM 730.

And will the Bell curve grading system be used here? Oh well...........

No, ADLER, I gave up with the Band Day idea (really) a long time ago with this present group we have in Denton and I did that about the same time when I most astutely observed how Kids Korner was (mis)handled by a few at UNT. I do disagree with you on Band Day as an entire university promotion, though, and will say more about that part later in this post, Jeff (double up on your caffein)! Band Day with some of this present group in the NT Athletic Dept. would be just as confusing (and probably just as unsuccesful). And the present group (only a handful I will say) for sure would not want any UNT alums taking some of their recognition (or glory?) away from them even if we all did it with the best intentions which would (as always) be for our alma mater. What do any of us stand to gain individually as it is for crissakes'? We can't get pay raises from UNT for volunteer work, right? LOL! KIDS KORNER...........OH BOY. Hellsbells, all MeanGreen61, Deep Green, myself and others did with that promo was volunteer to help the NT Athletic Dept. do what they seem to never have time to do (if that makes cents) and that was to raise monies from many of you of GMG.com who gave your monies to Kids Korner above and beyond your usual annual MG Club donation and football season ticket purchases for that football season. It was what many of us thought was a most admirable response from the many of you who are still posting or reading this forum. Personally (and I never said this on this forum before) but I think that Kids Korner promotion started going south and south fairly quickly when GoMeanGreen.com and all the Kids Korner donors from this forum probably received a bit too much recognition from a very nicely written Denton Record-Chronicle feature article than a certain 1 or 2 in the NT athletic deparment really wanted to see happen to such an extent. But FWIW, we of GMG.com did this to not receive any extra stars in our Mean Green crowns, but as past history would tell with most of us, we did it most unselfishly for the good of the cause at the University of North Texas (but mostly for the kids, of course). So again, none uf us from this forum gave a rat's ass about who got credit for this, that and the other as we just thought we were doing a sevice for the kids of Denton County and helping dear ol' alma mater at the same time. YET...........I don't think that most positive DRC feature article praising many of you, ie, GoMeanGreen.com poster/readers was exactly what 1 or 2 in the NT Athletic Deparment had in mind with "their" Kids Korner idea. NOTE: Rick V was most gracious and cooperative with his attitude in all this, though. So when things such as these "100% volunteer projects" (on our part) goes to such a level of "just who will get al the credit for this"; fellow alums, you can can rest assured that this NT Ex (and other who privately expressed the same thing) will just continue to wait (perhaps about the time of the 2'nd Coming of Christ?) for some of this core of NT employees to take their most unique special talents elswhere and for us to (finally) have a new core of NT athletic employees who won't develop such pissy attitudes toward their customer base at the drop of a Kansas Jayhawk football helmet. In light of recent W/L records and (still) poor attendance in Denton, some of this long-lasting core group within the NT Athletic Dept. have put new meaning in the concept of "wearing their welcome out" in Mean Green Country. Still amazing how some of this group of NT athletic employees still can't get over why they can't get much more than 15K fans per home game at Fouts Field (even during bowl years) and they apparently cannot seem to also understand why a good crowd for NT basketball anymore is one that has over 2-3,000 fans at the Super Pit. Soooooooooo.........................uh.............................duh? So to all, don't worry, no more manifestos from this alum for us to host an NT Band Day in Denton, although as one who has been a student recruiter for almost a quarter of a century and seen Band Days work at other Texas universities; Band Days are still very effective general student recruiting tools for and I would think UNT would still be interested from that standpoint PLUS.................when someone posts the YUCCA photograph (in color, too) of that 1964 Band Day @ NTSU and one that Silver Eagle himself was a part of, that photo alone may change a few minds on a Band Day promo for our alma mater; but someone else will need to take the ball and run with it because I have pitched that ball off like a wishbone QB.