PlummMeanGreen

drex, the single most factor that may bring more SMU fans to this Fall's game is for the fact that it is SMU's first game in the Metroplex. With that in mind, I do think they bring more fans this time around. And the (almost) 23,000 in attendace at Fouts Field (which seated 20K at that time) with our win over SMU in 1990 was (in deed) the by-product of some of very hard, dilligent work on your behalf. I also agree with you that nothing can be taken for granted assuming a sellout for the 2006 game at Fouts Field, too.

VideoEagle, I may be off on the exact year and I stand to be corrected, but the Mean Green did beat a #18 or #19 ranked San Diego St. Aztec team the year I think we were ranked.

And addendum on the first post...........I thought the original was much too short a post, actuallly.

Bill, I added an addendum to the original post mostly asking what were the trends, indicators or reasons that one voted yes or no with this poll. Just answering yes or no is very easy and I'm sure many non-interested lurkers have done just that, but "why" yes or no?

THURSDAY NIGHT ADDENDUMS: Of course, whatever era some attended UNT may sway a few votes toward their respective eras and because of all the non-UNT (or basically non-interested in our school) visitor/lurker types who vote this could never be considered a scientifically accurate poll as would be the case for any other polls we've posted on GMG.com in year's past.......BUT in your heart of hearts, is UNT football closer to being a Top 25 program today than we have been in past decades? .................................................................................................... <>*<> We all know that in 1968 NORTH TEXAS had a football team who played the socks (and actually should have won the game) off the school who would play the 1969 NCAA football season in what (then) national sportswriters called "the Game of the Century." Of course, that was Darrell K. Royal's UT Longhorns and Frank Broyles Arkansas Razorbacks which produced an NCAA National Champion only 1 year after our near win over ARKANSAS. Still amazing to many of us was how Mean Green football was playing at such high levels in the late 1960's. Why UNT football seems to most always retreat after reaching such levels or heights is a mystery to many of us who've been around all this for awhile. This is a tradition many of us would (obviously) like to see disappear and to be a thing of the past once MEAN GREEN football eventually gets back to a Top 25 quality of NCAA D1-A football. ...................................................................................................... If any of you who bothered to vote in this poll answered "yes" please offer some viable reasons for your response; if any of you answer "no" please explain. Also, please do offer up more ideas of things we could possibly do to get closer to being a Top 25 football program in Denton (and FWIW, pleeeezzzzzzz, this part doesn't have to focus on our present athletic personnel). We've all sorta' covered that subject in past months I'd think most would agree and like the true Southern (Northern/Western/Midwestern) Gents (or ladies) we all are, I think we all have found that we can kindly agree to disagree from time to time without the shedding of blood from within the family. Also, most on this forum by now know where each stands on the personnel part of this equation up in Denton, Texas, America, as it is and I'm sure nothing will change anyone's minds on that other than some winnning football seasons that catapult MEAN GREEN football to some NEW ORLEANS BOWL wins........... AND................the position any Sun Belt Conference football champion should be no matter which school represents the league and that would be for said SBC football champion being in the Top 25. We are fartin' in the NCAA D1-A wind until all of the SBC raises its level of standards, recruiting and facilties. After all, isn't the SBC football champion "ALWAYS" being ranked in the Top 25 about the only way that the Sun Belt Conference will start turning some eyes (regionally & nationally) and getting some much-needed positive recognition? Isn't that a prime reason the MAC has received much more respect of late? How long ago was it that some on this board even thought the SBC was ahead of that league? <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Addendum: I suppose those who were actually around to experience (firsthand) some of the past decades of NORTH TEXAS MEAN GREEN football might have a different insight or perspective in their voting than those who were still merely gleams in their father's eyes or those who were not on the UNT payroll during those past decades as well. Interesting results thus far as of April 20, ie, Thursday AM, but (again) would like to see more posts or reasons for those answering "yes" as to why they think we are closer to being a Top 25 program today than yester-year while enlightening those who voted otherwise.

STILL and in my opinion.................The "ONLY" way for NT to do a Band Day in this era would to focus exclusively on UNT alums who are high school band directors as to bring their bands to Fouts Field for an anuual band day. This is not that big a deal for those who want to make it such. Yet wouldn't a consortium of Texas HS band directors who are NT Exes constitute quite a small army; that is, that large number who all graduated from the 2'nd largest College of Music in America? For NT Exes who are HS band directors, its not like all this UNT Band Day business would be like a trip to the dentist office with a drill waiting for each of them. Hellsbells, I'd bet many of them would love the recognition each of them and their bands would get at "their" alma mater in front of their former UNT COM professors and collegues. Such NT alum's egos would be stroked and musicians have as big of egos as anyone out there. If anyone from any era of UNT had ever seen a University of Houston Band Day that had as many as 14,000 bandsmen at one I saw back in the day, they might change their philosoophy on a UNT Band Day period. I would like to think UH recruited a bunch of students out of that 14,000 since HS band students are beginning to look for a college to attend? I defer to the next paragraph and the great Silver Eagle. Silver Bill, I have a flack jacket for you to wear at Fouts this next Fall. I'll get back with you on that. Anyway, Bill, duly noted was your post that stated how it was an NTSU Band Day that was the major influence on your becoming a North Texas student and (now) an NT Ex. I'd bet there were many others besides yourself if truth be known. Band Days as I understand just have that kind of affect with HS students who visit a college campus for the first time (for many of them) and is a main reason many have always thought this promotion a good idea since most HS band students are usually upwardly bound type academic students as it is. It would sure beat the hell out of a Kids Korner type promo seeing all these Denton area kids at Fouts Field wearing UT or TAMU gear that their parents bought them at Golden Triangle or Vista Mall. So in closing, just put an NT Band Day on the back-burner for awhile until we have those back on campus who want around 4-10,000 potential UNT students on our campus each Fall; also, for those who will "get it" on how to pull it off and how to pull if off with the (UNT-graduated) constituency that would make it a success. After all and FWIW, who wants UNT to be successful more than UNT graduates or North Texas Exes?

I agree, UNTLifer, it was a pretty tough (and typically lengthy) read. And no, I don't expect UNT to ever plan or effectively pull off a Band Day promo because those are the kinds of things we just don't do in Denton. That sorta' like our's regularly not going after new or former MG fans to fill those other 15,000 empty seats for most our home games, too, right? ..................................................................................... On another side-note, one of the things that has lost me and others is how so many are making the SMU game as Dickey's make or break game as future NT coach. Some are now saying he can beat SMU, lose the rest and all is OK? SMU is no magic potion for UNT and never will be. If we eventually get around to building a new football stadium we will pass them by in football like that Road-Runner cartoon; if we don't build a new stadium before the end of this decade we will continue to fiddle-fart around with intercollegiate football in Denton even longer (somewhat like we have most the last 3 decades if one would check his/her media guide). Also, those from the Hilltop will not want UNT in CUSA today, tomorrow and won't want us in their little fraternity of an athletic league next decade or the one after that--so on and so forth. Mark it. There are some trends we can learn from in Denton if we would just take notice of such trends. The UNT/SMU association has such a trend that shows we will never be in the same athletic conference bed with the Mustangs for you who think that is real important or necessary.

THE FOLLOWING WILL BE OLD HAT FOR SOME, BUT NOT FOR NEW GMG.COM MEMBERS & NEW LURKERS: Band Day right now would be a waste of time because it would be done half-assed, for sure wouldn't succeed because of that and then some NT powers that be would say: "See, we told you it wouldn't work." We've sung this song B4 with other attempted (but not followed up upon) promos, now haven't we? BUT.................the Band Days I attended as a youth at University of Houston Cougar football games annually had as many as 14,000 bandsmen in attendance. They were quite impressive with their pre-game or half time shows and were always a Coog' fan favorite as far as any other UH Game Day promotions went. Going to also bet UH sold a bunch of Cougar gear because I could be counted among that group as I got to attend as a handler of instruments since I played on our HS football team. If UNT just had 4,000 bandsmen (filling almost one Fouts Field end zone) for a Band Day you also get some of those 4,000 bandsmen's parents, grandparents, brothers and sisters to our game. The NT Bookstore would have to bring out significantly more NT or Mean Green oriented gear to sell with such a large group visiting our campus (and many for the first time). If one gave it much thought, many band member-types are usually "upwardly mobile" academic types with their respective Texas high schools, so what a nice group to have out on a Game Day especially for the UNT Under-Graduate Admission staff of recruiters to have on their turf to recruit instead of them having to travel to all those band member's respective turfs in Dallas, Fort Worth and beyond. IMO, at such College and Career Days (which I've attended representing past employers) a far less smaller group who would be interested with UNT since all the ex SWC schools as well as regional Big 12 schools would be circling our wagon. UNT recruiters would simply get lost among that crowd..................Therefore, you might want to get a few thousand Texas HS bandsmen (students) on our turf to do some serious recruiting at a UNT Band Day. But as some of you have said, I realize some things have changed at some schools among the UIL, but I still bet we have enough NT-graduated HS band directors in the Southwest that if NT broke tradition and developed some rapport with that elite degreed group of NT Exes that we would be able to get many of their Texas (Oklahoma?) HS bands to Fouts Field for one game per year. Also, the UIL doesn't affect Texas private HS band programs who might have UNT-graduated band directors, right? Inasmuch that UNT is the 2'nd largest College of Music in the USA in enrollment, I believe at some point in time with the right group, we should start using our strengths to our advantage. I know 2 other Texas colleges who still do Band Days, but they seem to have more of a "can do" spirit about themselves. .......................................................................................................... ON A SIDE NOTE: Amazingly enough and since you mentioned it, NDT, I also remember watching that ABC TV televised NORTH TEXAS vs Tulsa U game back in 1970 from my home. All I knew about Denton at that time was that a first cousin of mine who worked at Dow Chemical Company in Freeport had graduated from Texas Women's University. The Houston area back then was SWC all the way with media emphasis on UT, TAMU (what's new with that?) and to some extent the University of Houston. UNT rarely received but a footnote of coverage once in a blue moon in the Houston Post and Houston Chronicle because I regularly read both newspapers sports pages. Don't think much has changed in that regard, either.

Of course I purposefully left that part out, Bill. Got your email and made the call. I've misplaced your #. HELP ME MAN!

Jack, did they have tortillas that far back?!?!? Just kiddin' friend........My first UNT game was Hayden Fry's first to coach as Mean Green coach. It was in September of 1973. I think I only missed one of his games at Fouts during his tenure.

Totally and whole-heartedly concur, Rick, in fact, some of us were sorta' hoping he would have been a candidate for the UNT-Denton president's job. His pro athletic stance in Mean Green Country will be missed.

It's just a matter of what happened to Air Force and Virginia as NT80 posted? Replacing them with Akron and Rice just sounds like more unfulfilled promises in Mean Green Country to some of us. A theme that seems to have become a constant theme lately. Next thing you know we will be getting future athletic facilities in Denton that don't quite measure up to or look anything like the ones that were originally shown us; you know, like the one on the virtual tour video and the grandiose blueprints of a baseball stadium complex, etc, etc, etc?

And Jeff, I am wondering while there seems to be any hint of excitement from anyone on this forum that we've scheduled Akron for however many games?!?!? "Someone please, please, please just kill me!" (quote from KTCK's Norm Hitzghes after some total frustration from a caller on his radio show)

Jack, you have just received my nomination for the "Most Sarcastic Post of the Year" award. I do agree that the new stadium should be named on behalf of the Big Donor.

Really very impressive, buff64 and I know you are very proud of your alma mater where you proudly played on the Buffs football team. BUT...............the 15K per home game average part of your post for a DII school out in the Texas Panhandle sorta' makes many of us wonder (once again) as to "what in the wide world of sports are we doing wrong in Denton?!?!?!? FWIW....................people buy from people they like. I still defer to my below "updated" signature.

whoops!

If I were in charge what would I do? Suspend all athletic operations for 2 years, clean house and then re-start the athletic program and then maybe only then after our 5'th year as a brand new football program then just maybe we might be able to beat ol'd Coach Howie' Schellenberger and Florida Atlantic University! LOL! Of course I'm being facetious with the above thoughts. There are 2 words in the 2'nd sentence, though, that should be considered and should have been done when Rick V first arrived in Denton. Once Rick V came to Denton and studied our situation as it was then he probably saw all he needed to see but was probably too nice a guy to pull the trigger on sub-par coaching and other NT athletic employee's performances and was probably even hamstrung by our NT powers that be even if he had wanted to make some immediate changes in key areas. But at UNT we now have have the good ol' boy system well entrenched that seems to be most employee-friendly no matter what those employee's W/L production numbers are after any number of years of being on our payroll. Proof of our good ol' boy system North Texas style? Well............don't we keep giving contract extensions to those that no one else in NCAA D1-A are even vaguely interested in offering interviews. What more proof does one need? Rick V has done some good things although most things we are building (if you think about this) we are building just so we can stay in the intercollegiate athletic business. Many of us just hope we are not building a bunch of 1-AA athletic venues just for the sake of saying we have all our venues in place, though. What we are building now at UNT all of us will be stuck with (good or bad) years after our present athletic staff are long gone. In all fairness to Rick V, though, IMHO he has been hamstrung by our on-campus Napoleon of the North who is a most successful home-builder in the real world out here but he seems to not know jack shit about NCAA D1 athletics and the kind of personnel who could make our school successful beyond the SBC/Bottom 10 level. But as many of you have also posted, I also believe RV wanted to do make a most strategic coaching change 6 years ago after a loss in Monroe, LA, because he obviously had an intuition even as far as back as then. Lucky for for all parties concerned that we were a member of the fledgling and newly formed Sun Belt Conference consisting of many schools just out of a NCAA D1-AA classification. One might also admit that we sure had a bunch of footballs bounce our way almost every time during most of the early years of SBC football. Yet early on, many of us felt RV knew we needed a new head football coach who would be offensively innovative (which would sell tickets even to the casuals or borderline fans of which we still have 15,000 empty seats each game after 4 bowl games) and I really felt RV also believed UNT would need a head football coach who would be a public relations dynamo as well as one would be upbeat and positive on and off the radio airwaves. I also feel AD Villarreal knew that he did not have that in the person of Darrell Dickey and DD has proved that on radio broadcasts time and time again. At least RV came to Denton, shot for the moon with his own dreams for UNT and FWIW, we haven't always had those characteristics coming from the office of the AD in Mean Green Country.

I'm sure some of us would like to know who those big time programs were and how many of those DD actually interviewed for? This is a complete revelation of new information. The only job we heard that there were "supposed" some semblance of talks was for the Idaho head football coaching job. But wouldn't most unbiased college football fans during that time probably suggests to DD that that would hardly be considered a step upward--of course, DD (and family) would have been able to host the Bobby Ray family with snow skiing vacations had he actually been offered and would have taken the Vandal's job. OH THE HUMANITY............AND all the kissin' up going on at UNT with our officials as we continue to find just one varsity sport (outside women's soccer) that we can excel and have a coach who actually has an over .500 W/L record "after" even several years on the NT payroll. And come on, flyonethewall, lets admit the obvious that the SBC was a hodge-podge of a football conference thrown together and made up of schools that no one else wanted.** DD was just fortunate to have a had a head start with the D1-A talent he had on hand at the beginnig of the SBC's football existence over the the rest of the 'Belt schools (many of whom were just out of a 1-AA classification). And lest one forgets, we did lose to 1-AA (and future SBC member) Troy U during our 1'st bowl year with DD and to bring all this closer to the present, we also lost to Howard Schnellenberger's FAU team (@ Fouts Field) during DD's last bowl year of 2004. ........................................................................................................ ** Any of you think UNT would be ready "facilty-wise" (once again) to host a CUSA consultant or official if they suddenly found themselves needing a new member once again? I've heard some of you say we would be no more prepared today for such a visit that than when we first tried to put our best foot forward last time CUSA consultant Chuck Neinas visited our campus. Can't say that I could disagree with some of you on that subject, either. I can think of 2 SBC schools today who would probably get a CUSA call B4 UNT would. .......................................................................................................... IN A NUTSHELL: Folks, we need some drastice changes soon as our present measures (or situation) will undoubtedly require it.

Had Hayden Fry's Mean Green teams been in a conference like the present SBC, I not only think his teams would have dominated such a patsy league, but he would have done more with all the bowling and would have taken our program to even more Top 20 or Top 25 (today) rankings which he did with "NTSU" even with our Indedpendent status that had no bowl affiliation. Comparing the Fry era to the Dickey Ball era would be almost as unfair as comparing the 2 coaches themselves. FWIW, to quote one of you who said this to me recently: "Hayden Fry did more selling of our Mean Green football in a mere few mintutes on last Fall's national telecast of the Troy game than one particular UNT coach presently on staff may have done in his 8 years on the payroll. What was even funnier with that national telecast last Fall is how ol' Hayden even had SMU ex Craig James eatin' out of his hands during that part of the broadcast and had Craig James all but ready to join the Mean Green Club as the former Pony Express'er jumped on all the "positive talkin" (about UNT for heaven's sake) bandwagon that Fry had going in the press box that night on the ESPN TV broadcast. Coach Dickey had a a similar national radio broadcast opportunity on ESPN Radio just 2 or so years ago to spread the Mean Green gospel as we were also right in the middle of buidling our Athletic Center, but all the ESPN national audience heard from DD that day was how tough he and we had it in Denton. How we had our backs against the wall in Denton, etc, etc, etc. Not one word was said by the NT coach about our Eagle Point Campus athletic venue construction program (and its future for a new stadium) on ESPN national radio that afternoon by NT Coach Darrell Dickey. Amazing............ Was Hayden Fry perfect or could he walk on water? Of course not, but he could get his teams up to play schools we had no business having on our schedules back in that day more than anyone I've ever seen; but on the other side of the coin, he might have allowed some also rans to stay in a game with his talented Mean Green teams longer than they should have. One Texas sportswriter back then called Hayden Fry "probaby the best Game Day coach in the Southwest." Yet for those of us who were at that last home game of the 1978 season, you might recall that is was a very cold, crisp and frosty November night game at Fouts Field. Not conducive to Lone Star "fair weather" fans. I think they sold a whole lot of coffee and hot chocolate that night. DEMOGRAPHICS OF NT, DENTON AND DENTON COUNTY WERE NIGHT AND DAY BACK IN THE FRY ERA COMPARED TO TODAY: Denton County had about 99,0000 total population (560,000 today) during that era as the Texas Almanac even called our alma mater's home county a "rural" county. I believe NT had about 17,000 students at the time, too (compared to 32,000 today). Back then, I also really believe we were more of a commuter school than we are today. We have many more students living on or near campus than we did in the 1970's, but of course, we have almost twice the enrollment today compared to the Fry era. That last home game versus Memphis in 1978 was not only a disappointment at the turnstiles on that cold November night (which was a "no no" thing to do with your football schedule because of the weather cycle of that era) but for many of us it wasn't that the bowl officials didn't come a-callin' for us to go bowling**, but it was because it was Hayden Fry's last game to coach as the North Texas head footballl coach. **I think our best chance to go bowling was with the Astro-Bluebonnet Bowl of which their executive president had been swamped with calls from Mean Green fans to consider Fry's last NT football team. The Big 10's U of Iowa Hawkeyes would hire Coach Fry away from us just a few weeks later. Never will forget hearing the news on KRLD on a Saturday AM and the disappointment I had with the news. I always felt the attendance count of that cold night in November at Fouts Field versus the Memphis Tigers (BTW, we did win that game) by a much smaller NT fan base of that era was the clincher that convinced Fry and most of his assistants it was time to move on to greener pastures; but after all, how many coaches have we had at NORTH TEXAS could or would have ever turned down a Big 10 job to stay in Denton?

JUST MORE RAMBLIN'S AND RANTS...........and a bit of nostalgia, too Just wait till the Crayola company gets on our green-tinted arses for calling one of the primary colors in their crayola box they've produced for almost a century, and the school from Denton that calls that color, uh............M-E-A-N............ for heaven's sake! Oh the humanity................ What happened to that much less complicated era when many of us Baby Boomers were coming up the pike "B.E." (Before Elvis) and an era if you turned on a radio pre-Elvis how you would probaby hear a hit from "Your Hit Parade" by the great Gogi Grant called "The Wayward Wind?" This long gone era when the hoola hoop made its debut and how we baby boomers started our first experience of "going round and round and in circles?" What about that wirey toy called slinky that could even walk down a flight of stairs? Who knows, next thing you know we'll even be going to the moon! What about those much simpler times when we most always felt that Ike Was Most Always Right? When you could watch your nickel or dime sparkling, fizzing glass of Coca Cola being prepared from a syrup dispenser mix with soda water in front of your very own eyes and how many of us thought to ourselves: "How could something taste so darn good as this drink we call Coca Cola?" Have any of you older nestors who had such a soda fountain experience at your local drug store really had a better tastin' Coke since? Honest to goodness, I don't think I have. What happened to those innocent days when what we now call political correctness would have been looked upon as something corny as hell as well as a waste of one's time and energy? ETHEL, STOP THAT KIND OF TALK & GO TURN ON THE TV SO WE CAN WATCH LIFE OF RILEY or OZZIE AND HARRIET! WOULD 2 of NT'S MOST FAMOUS EXES BEEN IN TROUBLE WITH PETA BACK IN THE DAY? Would the PETA group have gotten onto early Rock and Roll pioneer NT Ex/alum Pat Boone for wearing white "buck-skin" shoes which became his trademark on his Chevy sponsored TV show back in the late 1950's? Would Pat Boone's fellow NT classmate, ie, the late great Roy Orbison have been on the PETA hit list for wearing all those leather jackets we've seen him photographed in times past? Ol' Roy if he had been approached by the PETA group back in his era would have probably told them to go jump in some "Blue Bayou" or something. MORE GOOD OL' DAYS: What about that era when a young bespeckled Texan from Lubbock named Buddy Holly saw a John Wayne western classic called "The Searchers" and how the Lubbock, Texas, native took the oft' used line (by Duke Wayne) in that movie and turned it into a #1 hit called "That'll Be The Day" in a new music genre called "Rock and Roll." WOULDN'T IT BE NICE? As an NT Ex/grad from the 1970's I would have loved to have been around during the late 60's during the Mean Joe Greene era when our football program was of such quality that it had all but beat a NCAA D-1 school in 1968 who would play DKR's Texas Longhorns for a national championship in 1969. But once again after we hit such a pinnacle, UNT takes those vaunted steps backwards instead of building on its blocks of success. This seems to be one of our traditions in Denton and one that we all wish we would discontinue ASAP. YIKES! CONSPIRACY TIME AGAIN?!?!?!? So just who is it that keeps runnning the store in Denton who from decade to decade apparently has some kind of secret charge passed down from their predecessors of making sure things most always remain business as usual or status quo' with NT athletics, specifically football? Aim high but shoot low but be contnent with low? Who is it that will help us break this cycle and get NT football back on the high road again, that is, the fast track it was on in an era when the National Football League made Denton, Texas, America, a frequent stop on its search for prime time footballl talent and during that era when they even made several of our Mean Green football stars #1 draft choices? So therefore I now ask the question..........just what the hell was the original subject of this thread once again?

And that the very reason I added a new 1'st paragraph. Hey! I haven't been taking my ginkho biloba!

OK, I take the bite... What gets many on the bandwagon is a positive, winning direction for our football program that catapults it to Top 25. If Top 25 is not our goal, then what the hell are we doing trying to fit into a NCAA D1-A co-existance anyhow? NCAA D1-AA is not an option, either, so lets just aim for Top 25, eh? You need the hosses to do all that though. Just ask the Boise States or Bowling Greens and they'd tell us the same thing. YOU NEED THE HOSSES (and the right leadership who have a Top 25 mindset! Attendance at Mean Green football games should be right up there with numbers of career wins over a period of years. IMHO, that should be the case no matter who the head football coach @ UNT is. A school that has over 32,000 students with over 100,000 alums within one hour of its campus football stadium just should not continue to be hovering at around 15,000 (+/-) fans per home game. Are NT leaders happy with 15K per home game averages, too? God help us all if the NCAA ever really gets serious about attendance criteria the way things have been of late in Denton and even during, uh, "4" bowl years? OK, since some of you brought this subject up in other threads recently, well, uh...............SPEAKING OF HAYDEN FRY: "If "ifs and buts".......Many of us only wish ol' Hay' boy could have been in Mean Green Country when UNT had 32,000 students as it does now; when Denton had 100K+ citizens (as it does now) AND...............Denton County had well over 550,000 citizens as it also does now. We just can't seem to get things happening in syncopation in Mean Green Country. As they say, though, timing is everything and (unfortunately) our timing of late has not always been the best at dear ol' alma mater:( BOWLING FOR DOLLARS? Just as strange up in "Little D" is how 4 bowl games in a row has yet to capture the fancy of the locals, ie, NT's annual missing links who as we all know by now are the casual or borderline fans; you know, the ones who keep Fouts Field half full (or if half empty is what you prefer). Some blame it on Dickey Ball or an offensive play calling style that is not exciting those with the "take if or leave it" attitude. We all know them well, they are the ones we don't seem to see after the home season openers, right? But not just Dickey Ball, either? Others blame whatever our shade of green will be for that season, others blame our dis-lodged "NT" lettering set-up or just plain bad karma causing all our problems in Denton. (OK, I'm being a bit facetious with all of that). Save the BU game a few years ago, it does seem we have had several very nice home season opening crowds at Fouts many of whom (unfortunately) seemed to leave at half time or sometimes in the 3'rd quarter due to lack of interest in Dickey Ball (or rather his style of offense). BUT STILL...............IMO, there is nothing magical about the SMU game this Fall. How could one game be considered a "program-saver" or even a "job saver" for Darrell Dickey since we have known for 8 years what we can expect to get from a DD-led football program? FWIW, this is the same man who still hung in there with Ramon Flanagan as the NT offensive coord. and he keeping the ex SMU QB on the NT payroll after almost every Mean Green fan vehemently protested such a continuance after RF's now infamous verbal bruhaha inside Fouts Field in full view and listening distance to many of our Mean Green fandom. It wasn't even so much that one specific event with Ramon Flanagan VERSUS Silver Eagle but what seemed to be an on-going "in your face" condescending attitude that seems to have developed from a hardy handful in recent years from our campus. With private school educated leadership at the top in the NT administration, I don't think those kind of attitudes will be ending anytime soon at our Denton-based Texas public university alma mater. BACK TO SMuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu? ? ? ? ? ? ?.....................IMO, winning one game against SMU will hardly take the spots off the hardy handful of leopards presently on the NT athletic staff. One game versus the Mustangs (win or lose) will not have any affect on the obvious direction that have been set in place for years in our SBC/Bottom 10 level of expectation which our present UNT officials seem to have become quite comfortable and accustomed to the last 8 years. Proof? They just keep extending all this out with extended contracts for all of our watching enjoyment. Fact still remains that there is still a track record in place. After all, in 8 years one has sorta' already made his or her bed whether they've made that bed most uncomfortably hard (or soft with downey feathers). Corky Nelson's last NT football team beat SMU back in 1990 at Fouts Field. During that final season Coach Nelson's team finished 6 Wins & 5 Losses but was still fired following his 9'th year at NT. Corky had a career W/L record of 48-52-1 at UNT. His records against OOC (specifically SWC schools) was somewhat impressive inasmuch as he had much less in the areas of facilities and athletic budgets. ANOTHER MEAN GREEN FOOTBALL COACHING CAREER AFTER 9 YEARS IN DENTON: Corky Neslon was fired as I recall because (basically) NT leadership saw no steady or positive direction in his football programs overall direction. Corky had a 9 year career at UNT. The "Corky Years" were tantamount to a roller coaster ride in many ways, yet in some ways even today, some of you I've heard vent via email or telephone conversation would even welcome back something like the "Corky Years" because at least there were some OOC wins against schools most of our people (and beyond) had heard of. Yet in the annals of our athletic history at UNT it was (once again) our (then) NT leadership who dropped the ball after the dismissal of Corky Nelson as they continued their ongoing NT legacy of what we seem to specialize in quite well in Denton and that is of not having a clue as to who to hire to be our next head football coach who would come in on the run, advance Mean Green football to a higher level of co-existance while also finding the right hire of one who would be "public relations" minded and one who would mesh well with the entire UNT community. ANYONE FOR SOME SUDS? SORRY, I MEAN'T, SPUDS? Seems the Idaho U Vandals (remember the Vandals--our former SBC foe?); well, it seems Idaho U just hired one to be their head football coach who is meeting all th criteria that many of you desire for any NT coach to have. If those Idahoan spud-eaters can do something like that with their program, can't a bunch of North Texans pull off something similar when such a time arrives to do so?

And apparently CFN does not have in its library the latest edition of an NT football media guide to see see which (now but then 1-AA) SBC schools beat "the 2'nd Coming of Vince Lombardy's" teams during at least 2 of his bowl years? Also...................if CFN only had the latest edition of an NT football media guide they might also stumble onto fact that the SBC's FAU Coach Howard Schnellenberger has yet to lose to Dickey Ball. I did hear a rumor that CFN does have numerous copies of Andersen's Fairy Tales that they allegedly use as their reference guide when talking about the mid (to lower) majors of NCAA D1-A, though, such as those in the SBC/Bottom 10. Sorry to disagree with some of you, but not quite everyone on this board subscribes to the theory that DD is the answer to breaking Mean Green football into the Top 75 schools of NCAA D1-A. Still being almost 20 games under .500 after 8 years in Denton would be a red flag at most all other NCAA D1-A outposts to suggest that something just quite ain't right, eh? Now if some of you who like such annual finishes of between #90 thru #117 for UNT's college football co-existance, then you (and what I feel will continue to be a noticeable in the stands diminishing number) will have just what the doctor ordered for your college football needs and expectations in Denton, Texas, America. A question some might have for a hardy handful is: Why are you allowing NT leaders to force-feed status quo college football on our fan base while setting low goals and having very little expectation for Mean Green football beyond an SBC/Bottom 10 success? Are we all just being lulled to sleep in Denton and being victims of what I have heard some of you for years call the "Denton malaise?" Have A Nice Day! Signed: PMG of NT's growing Focker Family. (But really now, did DD have some more edifying word(s) to say about NT fans who have the unadulterated audacity to expect much more than what he seems to be capable of producing in Denton (even at an SBC/Bottom 10 lower level) and he even saying things in public after the Winter, I mean, Green/White Spring Football game? If so, the saddest part of all this kind of behavior still remains that leaders of UNT keep allowing this overly paid journeyman assistant football coach Kansan public relations disaster of a goof ball to continue his non-stop rant among Mean Green fans. Mean Green football fans and some of our best who most always have their kids within earshot of anything DD would say to his team inside a football stadium setting. Jeez! Does ol' DD think he has ex TV secret agent Maxwell Smart's "cone of silence" over him every time he decides to go into a string of expletives or something about his employers or UNT fandom? Guess the upside of this latest episode from DD (if it truly did happen as some of you suggest it did) is that this time around (at least) it wasn't beamed out on the Mean Green Radio Network for the whole DFW Metroplex (or those who listen to MG football) to have to listent to. (Funny how one fellow NT alum told me that DD once was supposed to have said that he could not understand why NT football season ticket sales are so low:( Wonder if he might need one big hint as to one of the prime reasons they are? We all have a fellow Parker County NT Ex who will no longer come to MG football games after he heard on one post game show a condescending verbal tirade aimed at UNT and UNT alums from DD couple years ago. Yes, it is true, that NT Ex is one of our borderline/causual type MG fans, but DD didn't have to say much to turn that NT Ex in a southward mode (instead of northerly direction toward Fouts Field). That particular NT casual fan is also not a fan of Dickey Ball or the kind of offense that DD directs, either, so that just added fuel to his fire for him to swear off MG football until DD is history. So does anyone else think that that particular NT Ex/borderline/causal MG football fan is alone with the way he feels over all the post-game radio rants the last 5 years running, ie, all the NT alumnus put-downs? FWIW, don't we most always have about 15,000 filled (or 15K empty seats, whatever) at most NT football games? And isn't it the borderline/casual MG fans that many on this board have said could make the big difference with all those seats that are not filled at Fouts Field each Game Day? To those of you who keep telling many of us "this too shall pass" and those who will simply bide time until all this passes thru Denton....................well, we are taking your word on that. If 4 bowl games can't get our football program but a few mere scattered votes over a 4 year period for Top 25 consideration when MAC schools and former Big West schools seemedly haven't had any problems breaking into that elite group, then doesn't something seem a bit out of order about all this going on up in Denton at the present; that is, what 4 bowl game appearances by the SBC's 4 X's "Coach of the Year" have not been able to produce for Mean Green football? Don't forget that this was once a proud Mean Green football program that even saw NCAA Division One Top 20 rankings back in another day. Anyone have a problem getting back to that level of quality once again or is Dickey Ball going to be just enough to float some of your boats? I bet I know what kind of football (with poll results) that most of you would prefer. Yet CFN needs someone from NT Athletics to just send them a recent copy of our Mean Green football media guide and then the good folks of CFN merely need to throw away all their copies of Andersen's Fairy Tales when it comes to their reporting on NCAA D1-A mid-to-lower majors (SBC/Bottom 10) with their own pre-conceived perceptions and their reporting of such perceptions. Sorry, but I still defer to the below stated "War & Peace" signature and will till what needs to be done is done in Mean Green Country. It's just my .02 cents on our present plight in Denton, that's all.

I like NT80's thread on San Jose's new era. UNT needs to rid itself of its era's, that is, uh, "errors" on our campus and those who keep giving their on-campus constituencies contract extensions and that so we can keep getting what we have been getting? Having above .500 producing coaches in Mean Green Country would be a welcome return in Denton, Texas, America. Sorry, folks, but shooting (SBC) fish in a barrell to get to bowl games is not what I think our progressive thinking UNT founding fathers had in mind for Mean Green football. If beating #90 thru #117 (or is it now 123 D1-A members as reported in NT80's San Jose thread article) to win a league championship and then play the 4'th place CUSA football team is what churns your butter, then "don't worry--get happy" you've got exactly what you want. All you need is a slice of Mrs. Baird's bread. BUT................as Gray Eagle said and I quote: "..... the longer that we stay where we are the harder it will be to ever advance, because others will." Gray Eagle has watched MG football since the 1940's and has the respect of many on this board and beyond. He also always seems to be right with his perceptions of what is going on in Mean Green Country and what "should" happen in MG Country. Some on the NT BOR's probably could gain from his 6 plus decades of knowledge and wisdom when it comes to NT athletics. I think last Fall was just one of the sign of the times of things to come, but from now on, UNT will no longer have the distinct advantage of being king of the hill of a newly formed football conference as the SBC was in 1991 and a newly formed league of several schools only rencently out of 1-AA and had never had a prior history of a NCAA Division One co-existence as UNT had before we took our 12 year sabbatical in 1-AA from 1982 thru 1994. MEET THE FOCKERS? And now according to some of you who have emailed or phoned me, it seems some on this board have been made part of the, uh, infamous "Focker Family" by UNT's football coaches version of, uh, "Mr. Radio Man' or "Mr. NT Public Relations Extraordinaire"? Truly, is it true that he called some of us, uh, "fockers?" How damn funny that is. Well now lets just hold the board, though. Let some of us tell you about who the real "Focker" is up in Denton and the one who has this football program on a record-breaking quest of his own self-serving version of so-called success (without any notable OOC wins of late) and the real Mr. Focker who only gets to stay around Denton (mostly) because he kisses up to the UNT Board of Regent's chairman. What else could it be for one who has so many losses under .500 in almost a decade as head football coach at UNT? Personality for crissakes'? Well, how's your family these days? Of course, only worse than the aforementioned is that that very same NT BOR chairman even allows such a "kiss up" to occur. Not exactly what most NT Exes or alums have in mind for the kind of unbias we expect from a one who has been given that role from an appointment by the Govenor of Texas and hardly what most of our NT constituency really wants to see from the position of the NT BOR's chairman. MEET THE FOCKERS? Yet, let's make sure the real member of NT's version of the Focker Family stands up, gets identified and further gets exposed as a D1-A "would be" head football coach for all his worth and what even has a hardy handful of you (who I guess have some semblance of personal agendas relating to NT athletics) are being suckered into. NOTE: STILL.............a scrutinizing look in your most recent edition of the UNT football media guide of those schools (some just out of 1-AA and some new members of the SBC still seeking to get out of that level I presume); anyway, merely observe as to who we have lost to in even our bowl years would speak pretty loud and clear to those who would only dare to look and then admit to what they have read in black and white print. Many will still bide time while waiting for some real reasons (once again) to celebrate and something positive to hang our hats on because of what is happening in Mean Green Country. Just hope some of these recent proposed contract extensions are not approved by all our clear thinking members of the UNT Board of Regents. I know many of us would like to think the majority of that group would meet such a criteria. After all, they (UNT Board members), too, I'm sure would like to leave their own mark or lasting (positive) legacies for the years they served as members on that UNT board for what Norval Pohl (and other past NT presidents) have described Mean Green athletics as the picture window for what many judge our university. AND..........from what other Texas D1-A schools are spending on their athletic programs, I suppose most on this board would even agree that there really must be something to that theory. Meet the Fockers is really a funny movie, though, but I just wish some of the "sad but true" scenes weren't presently being played out in Mean Green Country. So............I will still take many of you on this message board's word that.........."this too shall pass?" Many of us are waiting for such a passage just like we would a long over-due bowel movement. (Can I say that, Harry)?

WHY? Because this athletic program has run completely amuck, has no clear direction (except one that seems to be pointed south) and..................UNT (whose administrative and BOR leaders have a worse than terrible legacy with the hiring of MG varsity head coaches of which other D1-A programs almost annually never show an interest in trying to hire them away from us. Some would call that a "tell tell" red flag, but others at UNT (strangely) call that "keeping a stability" with the same varsity coaches; but will these be varsity coaches who will probably never reach .500 no matter how long they keep getting their contracts extended in Denton? Some unusual style of athletic management at an NCA D1-A level that keeps getting rubber-stamped annually by the NT Board of Regents. I realize this is a BB thread, but the following represents some of our varsity hirings in football. Head BB coach hirings at UNT may not be much better if you look at overall records of several roundball coaches we've had the last 3 decades in Denton. ........................................................................................................ JUST A FEW TIDBITS & THOUGHTS OF RECENT NT FOOTBALL COACHES POST HAYDEN FRY ERA: ** Jerry Moore//1979-1980//<>*<> 11 wins.....11 loses Took over some good Hayden Fry talent and attempted to turn Fry's finesse style of talent with his wide open style of offense into a Big 8 three yards and a cloud of dust plow mule. He was .500 in Denton so that suggests to many on this board that he wasn't successful with his Big 8 experiment in Denton. Most NT Exes were hardly disappointed when TTech took a "2 year" .500 coach from Denton who many of us quite frankly felt he never used the talent he had in Denton in a way that had been previoulsy successful under Fry. I recall many Tech fans wondering why they ever hired Moore from UNT in the first place. I feel Moore's overal tenureship in Lubbock probably proved it not to be so a good hire for the Red Raiders. ** Bob Tyler//1981//<>*<> 2 wins.....9 losses Many of us did enjoy a Country Music Revue headlined by T.G. Sheppard in a post game concernt during the State Fair in the Cotton Bowl. Crowd was one of those "pull the plug" type crowds with the OSU Cowboy fans having more fans at this game than NT. ** Corky Nelson//1982-1990<>*<> 46 wins.....43 losses Had other situations that apparently caused NT leaders to decide to end his contract during a year that his team even beat SMU, ie, some of your own bell cow for DD come next season. ** Dennis Parker//1991-1993<>*<> 11 wins.....21 losses SAY WHAT?!?!?!? NT administrators and the NT BOR's approved the choice of Dennis Parker over Dennis Francione to be the NT head football coach who would follow Corky Nelson). ** Matt Simon//1994-1997<>*<> 18 wins.....26 losses Have talked with some who believe that our 1994 season may have been their favorite overall MG football season since the 1975 season when NT beat the UT Volunteers--UNT met NCAA D1-A criteria in that 1994 football season. The defining moment of the Matt Simon as far as when started going south was about the time a MG football player fumbled a punt during what had been a pretty exciting TAMU/UNT game in Texas Stadium. ** Darrell Dickey//1998-???? 26 wins.....39 losses after 8 seasons Not many OOC wins for DD in 8 years and it appears no schools seem to ever have him on their "long or short" list of head football coaching candidates when there are D1-A openings...............also, DD's teams have played and won against SBC schools ranked anywhere from around 95 thru 117 on an annual basis which has created excitement for some on this board while for others it has been a point of frustration with what seems to be low set goals with low expections from our NT leadership. DD's is probably the most unusual head football coaching job of any NCAA D1-A school I've observed in 40 years of being a college football fan. Wonder what an upcoming new NT President will have to say about all the sub .500 varsity coaches in MG Country with many years under their belts to have done other-wise?