PlummMeanGreen

Quoner, I realize the above post from you was directed to flyonthewall, but what has been posted on GMG.com not in print in an NT women's basketball media guide would you consider untrue? Just curious, that's all. Most of us on GMG.com are fairly open minded to the truth (& nothing but the truth so help us Scrappy) and to the way things really are in MG Country. And yes, we still have the few & the bold who want to bury their heads in the sands of non-realisim and low expections for MG varsity athletic programs, too. One day when things are much better for MG athletics (W/L-wise), they will be the very ones, too, who wonder why all that couldn't have happened sooner truth be known. All the info in each UNT varsity program sports media guides sorta' spells it all out in black and white for those who wonder how any NT varsity sport has been doing of late. Not really sure what other barometers we have at NT to measure success other than by those W/L records over an extended period ot time unless that woujd be attendance averages. What does NT women's varsity baskeball games average per home game during the years that have been called successful in Denton? Many schools use how far into the NCAA tourney (beyond a first round opening game) does their program go if they are fortunate to win their league championship to get to that 1'st round game.

LoveMG, I wonder what our own turnout was back when we had our student referendum vote a few years ago? We know at least half the NT College of Music had to turn out for that one, right?!?? LOL!

Very interesting, AV, maybe you should have also added: "If all the spots suddenly disappear from leopards world-wise" to your 2'nd paragraph, too"? But, AV, I'm afraid many have already begun their personal moratoriums a year earlier than yours if your criteria are not met. Some out here think being ranked (much higher) among the rest of the 117 member NCAA D1-A may now be even more important than winning the SBC and being ranked anywhere from #90 to #117; you know, just more of the same? Just depends on what athletic neighborhood NT Exes and MG fans feel we deserve long-run. Some on the UNT athletic payroll are banking on the hope (and for their continued service on the UNT payroll) that the majority of the MG Nation will just be content beating the ULM's of the NCAA D1-A world. I think they (unfortunately for them) are just now beginning to hear the rumblings of an earthquake that will only increase on the Richter scale in Denton, Texas, America. As you (among many) would very well know, AV, this is a program that in some of its lowest moments (as in a 1 win season in 1972 under Rod Rust) could still hire a Hayden Fry when many of our green-tinted Doubting Thomases even back then didn't think we of little ol' NTSU worthy of such a hire; yet we still hired a "name" coach to come to a much smaller Denton, Texas, as was the town in December of 1972 when NT officials inked Fry to a contract. GRANDKIDS OF NTSU'S DOUBTING THOMASES STILL HANGIN' AROUND: In spite of what some of that group would have or like you to believe, there is one out there waiting to come to Denton just like there was a Mike Price waiting to come to a traditional basketball school with very little football success school and that we now call UTEP. Also, a school whose football program had never even come close to a ""Top 25" football ranking...............so "down in the West Texas town of El Paso" Mike Price (allegations and all) was hired at UTEP and a Top 25 ranking would soon follow. (The ghost of Marty Robbins was said to have been smiling after that hire). STILL JUST HIND-SIGHTING: Wish ol' Hay' boy would have still had a 32,000 enrollment UNT, a 100,000+ populated city of Denton and a Denton County that is now larger than New Orleans (proper) was even before Katrina hit; anyway, wish the public relations-minded Pied Piper Fry could have marched in Denton with the constituency we now have. Could have been interesting to say the least. At UNT, this is still not about well-meaning personalities presently on the UNT staff for those who want to make it that, but moreso about W/L records after years of service and where that has us standing among the rest of NCAA D1-A. If being the best in the SBC and 4 bowl games in a row would have vaulted the Mean Green to a similar kind of success UTEP gained after only 2 years of Mike Price at the helm; if after 4 bowl games MG football would have had rankings inside (at least) a Top 50 NCAA D1-A world; then this post would have most likely never been posted. **Jeez, folks, do some of our elect think UTEP deserves Top 25 and UNT doesn't? Check out the all time UNT/UTEP football series W/L record for those who might think we shouldn't be able to emulate what UTEP has done in football under Mike Price. YET..............a Mean Green Nation divided cannot stand and with that our apparent situation from reading this board and listening to those outside this board, its just (probably) time to move on to a brand new era with many new faces and fresh ideas. Across the board, can things really remain how they've been in Denton? One still only has to look at NT varsity team's media guides which show in plain o' black and white the records of all those team's W/L performance from the last few years and then with those records for anyone connected with UNT to come to his/her own conclusion as to what they think this athletic program deserves and at what level; also, as to what they feel we should be annually striving for among the rest of the 117 members in NCAA D1-A. If merely SBC success and #90 thru #117 rankings are what floats some of our MG fans boats, then they have everything that will make them most very happy & content in some years of SBC competition. Many think we can do much, much better because many have seen better, but at a much higher profile than SBC successes seem to be giving us.

One prominent NT Ex told me that a few years ago when we had our own similar athletic referendum vote that we really never did even have to put that to a student vote considering the size of the projected facility, ie, a new football stadium. That was news for me. Another prominent NT Ex said, "after all, you want those on campus who are temporarily there (as those who just transferred in and/or those who won't even graduate from UNT, etc, etc) making decisions that would affect our univerisity long-term and (especially) with the size and scope that such a major facility as a new football stadium would be: also, with what such a major facility would mean to the rest of the 100,000+ strong UNT community, Greater Denton and Denton County for decades to come?" Should 18-21 year olds be making such a decisionin the first place? Well, the closing paragraph offers another perspective... So it was the NT Ex in the first part of this post who also added that UT and TAMU regents with similar scenarios just announce something to the affect of "this is what we are going to do" (as far as major athletic construction is concerned) and then (quite frankly) they put all the machinery in place to get it done.

drex, perhaps they feel they are needing to adhere to the National Privacy Act on divulging such info? I think most "lower" mid-major NCAA D1-A schools are basically getting the ones who are going to show up at their respective stadia on Game Day whether they buy seasons or not. When a program starts selling over 10,000 season tickets is when I think you start to see the big difference inside the stadium.

LJ, how many times now has Keith Jackson retired?

Well, since you just did tie her record into this thread, then I guess I don't have to, now do I? On the subject of the quality and style of FAU's Schnellenberger, I think on many occasions we have been out-coached of late and I have several non-UNT friends who have attended some MG football games the last few years who actually first brought that subject to my attention. Also, in the last 35 years of following all this, I just sorta' feel better about our school's athletic program when "multi-years on the job" NT varsity coaches have over .500 W/L records. Wonder if Longhorn, Aggie, Red Raider, Bear, Cougar, Owl, Mustang, Miner and Horned Frog fans feel the same at their respective locales? .

Of course, we have yet to beat a Howard Schnellenberger football team and that when he was at Miami (early 80's) and FAU in our last 2 attempts. In fact, we first lost to his (now an SBC member) FAU football team at Fouts during our last bowl year. Good coaching can take average talent to the next level and I think we found that to be the case with Fry before he really got his recruiting program on track up in Mean Green Country.

A football game versus the Texas Longhorns in Denton is just another reason for a 40-50,000 seat stadium, but (of course) not the only reason. How many total SBC home games in Denton would bring in similar gate receipts as that of merely one UT/UNT game and at a stadium that seats 40-50,000? What if our future football program grew to a point that we could host in Denton at least 2 such OOC games per season in a stadium that size? Anyone want to figure how much just one game like that would affect the economy of Denton County, the City of Denton and the UNT athletic coffer$? We know that this is all a pipe dream all things considered (or until we wake up some AM and read where our own version of T. Boone Pickens steps forward to jump-kick the single most facility project for UNT-Denton in the last half century). After all, one day President John F. Kennedy at Houston's Rice Stadium (and early in his presidency) announced that America would put a man on the moon. Many across both Big Ponds laughed at JFK and the rest of our country with his bold and most ambitious statement. Yet its funny how the old adage of "he who laughs last, laughs longest" still exists and one sunny afternoon in July of 1969 many Americans were able to laugh for quite an extended amount of time. I'll be glad when all of us will be able to laugh once again with a new stadium being just one of the reasons for doing so.

Well, I guess I don't either as long as they don't give me a 2'nd, 3'rd or 4'th look or a mis-guided wink.

Good Gosh! One thing about it, never a dull moment on GMG.com! And what diversity, eh?

Hopefully, one of our numerous UNT-graduated College of Education administrators will read your request and give you that PM, untgirl04

Of course, bandwagon fans who give UNT $1,000,000.oo we can probably make exeptions? BUT TO HOLD US HOSTAGE?:(But those who give big money who suggest who we need on payroll and threaten to pull support if they don't get their wish many schools might have 2'nd thoughts. Amazing how Mattress Mac was part of the beginning of a new, exciting football tradition at UNT some of us sorta' enjoyed and wish we could emulate again, especially since our UNT constituency is much larger now than it was back in 1973.

Great post, Rick, and one that needs to be read by every part of the NT community.

Heard that on KRLD talk radio en route to the office this morning. Not a bad start for 21 or 22 year olds fresh out of college some might say? Our Texas public school teachers deserve as much as they can get IMHO, especially with their having to contend with many Baby Boomer and Gen X parents some of whom prefer to support their kid's word over most of our school teachers it seems in many cases. Back in many of our day, it was just the opposite inasmuch as most Texas public school teachers were the ones who were mostly always right in the eyes of our parents and back then they were treated almost with as much respect as most did their local ministers. It should really still be that way IMO.

So yall were really the "The Kingsmen," EagleMBA? If so, that begs the question and (most likely) a very weak attempt at a Norm Hitzghes type dad joke for this slow Monday: Was yall's school's song: Louie! Louie! (pronounced 'Lou-eye, Lou-eye aay', of course) ? ? ? ?

Danbury High School (between Alvin and Angleton just SW of Houston) Colors: Black and gold(gold)---although many times it seems gold was always yellow back in the day... Classification: Class AA School song: Let our voices loudly ringing echo far & near Songs of praise we're always singing To our our memories dear Danbury, Danbury, dear ol' Danbury Times of change may bring Still the name of Danbury High School Evermore we'll sing! (sung to the tune of "Far Above Cayugas Waters") GO PANTHERS! ** Nolan Ryan owns the bank in Danbury. It's called "Express" Bank".......: ** One of Ronald Reagans inner White House circle, ie, James H. Baker, married a Danbury girl who was a friend of my late older sister, Nina. Her name is Susan Garrett Baker. I have a photo somewhere of both Nina and Susan at our old homeplace..........James H. Baker's great-grandfather was one of the founding fathers of Rice University.

One might say when a UNT football program starts beating the 4'th place CUSA football team in the New Orleans Bowl that only then can we say we are beginning to make significant inroads in making our departure from the bottom quadrant of the 117 member NCAA D1-A. If we don't beat the #4 ranked football team in CUSA, then aren't we just going to (probably) be playing musical chairs with the rest of the Sun Belt Conference football membership as far as who gets the annual honor of hosting the NO's Bowl and getting our heads handed to us on a silver platter? And that by a CUSA football team that would hardly be their best? In fact, there would be 3 other CUSA teams better than the one who would annually show up in the Big Easy.

You mean, uh, "green-us envy" here, Got5onIt? Hopefully Chancellor Lee Jackson (who freely admits to not being a big sports fan) is being taught by other NT powers-that-be the value of inter-collegiate athletics at an NCAA D1-A school in the Lone Star State and how it affects an entire university's future, its scope and whatever the intensity of those "warm, fuzzy feel good" feelings of any college's alumnus base. If alums don't feel good about their school, just who is left out there to do all the feeling good business in large numbers? We can have Game Days in the Fall till the cows come home, but you also sorta' need a whole bunch of fans at all the stadia across the USA to make those Game Days significant, don't you? ......................................................................... Looking at the other thread of Marshall U's Spring Football Game crowd with over 17,000 at their Green/White game I'm sure makes many on this board feel we sure do have a whole lot of catching up to do in Denton. Marshall U's football stadium is big league all the way.

SUNDAY EVENING REVISIONS: I think most of us really don't believe in conspiracy theories in regard to most anything concerning UNT. Hellsbells, I still even believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and always felt that way soon after that nightmare of a November weekend in 1963. Rather than UNT conspiracy theories that involve Mean Green athletics, I think most of us just look at results, how we (athletically) stack up against the rest of the 117 schools in NCAA D1-A (on the field of play and with overall facilities of schools our size and scope) and then (even more specifically) form our other opinions based on the reality of what we feel is happening with fundraising that is going toward a new football stadium @ UNT-Denton. And for what its worth, if our UNT fund-raisers have not received an official charge from the Chancellor's Office to raise monies yet not necessarilly for a new football stadium in Denton..............then just why has all that been put on hold and just what are any such monies being raised would be a very big question from most any NT Ex or Mean Green fan. Such NT alums and fans who know the value (especially for an NCAA D1-A school in the Lone Star State) for a nice, new modern football stadium with all the latest ammenities in this new century we find ourselves a part of. BTW, we are talking about a new football stadium that one UNT official projected would be completed by 2009. ANYHOOOOOO.....anyone out there have about $10 million additional dolllars to donate than what our present entire UNT System endowment is (& that under $40 million last count) and such a total amount of monies it will probably take to build a 40,000 seat stadium at Eagle Point Campus by the time we actually get around to builiding it?style_emoticons/ Anyone think our present high ranking UNT officials are really going to let that much ($50 million?) be spent out at the Mean Green Athletic Village (even if those monies would be spent for the single-most campus gathering spot that the largest majority of NT Exes will gather compared to any other given university event at its venue)? There are some things in Texas you just take care of and get out of the way and then you get back to your other school facility priorities. Are NT Exes who graduated from UNT-Denton (which is presently every NT grad on record whatever that enormous number now is) going to really get that excited with the focus UNT-Dallas (and Dallas County, in general) is and has already taken away from our main campus? Anyone reading of a UNT Law School being placed on our Denton campus? Or even a UNT Pharmacy School for that matter? UNT-Denton has been in operatoin since 1890 and suddenly new UNT System upstarts are going to get the real prestigious academic programs because our Chancellor knows how to wheel and deal in Dallas? Some please bring a very big jar of Vasoline for NT Exes who graduated from the main campus. Is there any reason some of us shouldn't feel our main campus is getting short-changed? If so, please explain in detail, OK?style_emoticons/ AFTER ALL...THIS IS TEXAS WHERE FOOTBALL IS KING (isn't it)? Look at Texas high schools for a prime example. Any of you remember the last time strategic athletic facilities at 99.9% of Texas high schools were put on the back-burner in order to build a new Band Hall?style_emoticons/ How many folks would show for a band concert on a Fall Friday night in the Lone Star State compared to a Texas High School football game? Some of us who grew up in smaller Texas cities and played Texas HS football can tell you how our town's population could triple in size when those Friday Night Lights were turned on on Game Night--Friday. But as far as the fudning part of athletics at many of our Texas high schools, is this the way it really should all play out? Probably not, but this is (after all) Texas where Texans take care of their football programs needs then start raising monies from those very same Texas HS football fans to build those (also) much-needed new Band Halls out there. Most Texas NCAA D1-A university officials would have no problem improving their stadium situations knowing how it can (and will) affect the long range bottom line and the "feel good about their alma mater" part among its alumnus base. I hope once all the dust settles with what our (still) somewhat new leaders at UNT's true philosophies of NT athletics will be, I hope they, too, won't have any problem with all this. BTW, the GMG.com board conspiracy theories do make for good (and even sometimes funny) smack board fodder, though.style_emoticons/ We are a most opinionated group, now aren't we?style_emoticons/

SUNDAY MORNING ADDITIONS meangreen11, all I am saying is...........Give Peace A Chance! OK, now to get serious, mg11, and in all fairness to Chancellor Lee Jackson, he was not (best to my knowledge) in the inner circle who made the decision from Denton and Austin for UNT (and the chosen few of those from UNT who make our decisions--both good or bad); anyway, it was those (then) UNT leaders (minus LJ) who threw our hat in the ring right along with the much better funded TAMU and Texas Tech Systems. It was a great photo op for UNT with (then) Governor George "W" Bush with hard hat on head (no comment) with all our NT Board of Regents, state Senator the honorable Royce West (who some of us saw play football for the UTA Mavericks) and all his south Dallas County crowd. And there we were, the former "Teachers College of the North" right in the mix with the much better funded TAMU and TTU Systems vying for the "honor" (coupled with tremendous expen$e). And then our being picked by Texas state Senator Royce West and his constituency for the right to build the south Dallas County campus as to be part of the UNT System. UNT has traditionally had great rapport with Metroplex black leaders and politicos with all that largely based on our history of being the Texas collegiate pioneer in integrating a traditional caucasian Texas university as we did in the mid-1950's when most everyone in the Deep South (of which the "nation" of Texas is hardly a part of IMO:); anyway, while most in the Deep South were busing sending KKK members to the US Congress and mostly doing less than positive things with American blacks. Yet with many of us, it is still mostly all about UNT's lack of an overall system financial endowment or its coffers that has been the main concern. Even GrayEagleOne (whose opinions and insights of UNT are respected my many of us) with GE1 who has been around the UNT and Mean Green scene as student and alum since the 1940'; anyway, what he recently posted just days ago was "if one really doesn't think UNT-Dallas will not affect funding (directly or indirectly) for UNT-Denton, then one is being quite naive' about all this." (I most liberally paraphrase GE1 on that particular post but that was the interrpretation I got out of it). And the solution? What if UNT officials met with the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, swallowed a whole bunch of pride and just simply told that powerful board down in Austin that we of the UNT System just bit off more than we could chew and how we just cannot afford this south Dallas County campus and do justice to our over 100 year main campus in Denton and at our UNT Health Science Center @ Fort Worth? FWIW, other campuses in Texas have been moved from one system to another so UNT officials would not be setting a precedent by doing this. Unless Mr. or Mrs. Big Donor step forward soon, in the opinoin of many, UNT-Dallas will stay at the top of Chancellor Jackson's priority list much moreso than a 55 year old eyesore of a stadium at UNT-Denton that should have been replaced at least a couple of decades ago. Folks, a little more perspecitve: Since we've had Fouts Field as home of the Mean Green, the Dallas Cowboys will soon be playing in their 3'rd football stadium. Texas Stadium will soon enough (most likely) be a very large parking lot that America's Team has called home since 1971. Just looking at the thread of Marshall's football stadium and another talking about UCF's and seeing what Troy U did with their's, it just seems we are getting further behind in Denton with our stadium plans. And now that Norval Pohl will soon be a part of UNT history, we have Lee Jackson who will play a big role in replacing him. Conspiracy? No, but just start looking at our program now. Start looking at the results which have us bogged down near the Bottom 10 of NCAA D1-A and we won't even talk about our basketball program and (still) how its remains dormant after all these years? Conspiracy for those of you who can't or don't won't to see the trees for the forest with much of this? No, but look how we've made some semlbance of progress (compared to where we have been), but then see how se start our slow retreat which seems to be a mult-decades long UNT tradition (especially with athletics). Just observe how we seem to be bogged down (again) in Mean Green Country with no significant monies raised toward a new football stadium; hellsbells, have our crack fund-raising team in Denton even raised enough for socks and jocks for the upcoming academic year for crissakes?!?! And here we are at the crossroads once again with Mean Green athletics as a new football stadium had been projected to be completed by 2009? Anyone want to put some money on if that happens with present company at the top of the UNT administration who are probably doing what they think is best for all of us, but rather they seem to be spreading us thin with more projects than we have endowment to effectively cover. Another GMG.com Negative Ned on the prowl here? No, just maybe more "Realistic Rob" talking instead. After all, all we have to go by with all this are the results and our present standing among the other 117 NCAA D1-A schools at the "Exentended Contract Capital of American College-dom, right, fellow NT Exes?

Don't know if any of you put much stock in dreams, but I did dream the other night that UNT-Dallas announced in the Dallas Morning News SportPage a $50 million/50,000 seat football stadium for its future. }:>( To reiterate GrayEagleOne's question, UNTLIfer, who (specifically) did you email and what was his campus email address? His phone number? Of course, just kiddin' on the dream part, but I do hope we don't have UNT leaders at the very top who are judging our Mean Green football potential and present fan support based on our annual "in conference" Bottom 10 competition, low attendance even during and after 4 bowl appearances, and, of course, very few OOC wins the last decade or so. And FWIW, awards are very nice to get, but I do look forward when we have an NT head football coach (whoever it is) that gets "Coach of the Year' awards when we are in a football conference of which most of its football members are a least all competing at an NCAA D1-A Top 50-75 level. If you were honored as the best tennis player in your immediate family among all your siblings yet all those siblings were all your sisters, you going to go around beating your chest with that honor? Also, IMO, many of our UNT constituency have got to eventually cease from being comfortable at being the best of the worst because that level of acceptance will still keep our average football attendance where it is now after 4 bowl games and that is at a 15,000 (+/-) per game level. It will also (IMO) eventually break the spirit (and future athletic budgets?) coming from certain kinds of NT leadership (now or in the future) who don't share the same passsion or enthusiasm for inter-collegiate athletics as most of us on this board have (yet preferably at a higher profile). To quote one of you on this thread with some variance: We do have real reason to have concern in the UNT System, especially when you don't see the Norval Pohl-type passion for Mean Green athletics; and also (seemedly) at the top of our priority list is "not" trying to replace a 55 year old visually pink elephant of a stadium in Denton that is keeping us barefoot and pregnant as far as advancing our football program to a higher profile. But rather now at the top our present NT leadership's priority list is trying to build (from scratch) an entirely new free-standing university campus in south Dallas County. One is going to prosper while the other is going to get short-changed; we just don't have the endowment in the UNT System that indicates other-wise. We are tying to fight our UNT System war for state and private fund-raising on too many fronts. If we had a $500 million endowment, it's a different story, but we have less than $40 million for the entire UNT System, folks. Also, some of us might always ask the question that whatever monies are raised in Dallas County to help build this new university, why couldn't UNT-Denton over the last 100 plus years of existence received at least half or more of those monies in its onw fund-raising efforts for our Denton campus? Like some of you have posted, I, too, just don't like the karma I am feeling about so many things happening at our alma mater and that seemed to begin almost from the day Norval Pohl announced his resignation. And we can sugar-coat all this all we want with our leaders, but wasn't the move of having a Chancellor who buys NT football season tickets and joins the MG Club just probably a recommendation from one of his office's inner circle (like perhaps one from that group who gave us the "Logo-Gate public relations disaster)? Wouldn't a staffer in any Texas university's chancellors or presidents offices' inner circle sorta suggest as one of the prioritiy things you would do would be to purchase FB seasons tickets and join the MG Club (whatever the level) and especially for Texas public university top official who has been on the NT campus less than 3 years? Here we go, conspiracy theory on the way? No, not really, but am merely looking at the trends (which we don't seem to do enough at UNT) and the history of other universities in Texas and beyond who also were well known for having leadership that put varsity athletics on the back-burner; you know, such as the kind of thing that this new UNT Standard Plan might be hinting to us could soon be happening at UNT; and that is UNT-Denton, of course? "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks likes a duck...........oh well, you know how the rest of all that goes.

Totally concur, Jack... IMHO, UNT never had a large enough financial endowment to have really taken on the UNT-Dallas project and to still (effectively) cover its bases in Denton and Fort Worth. Instead of tackling the UNT-Dallas project, I really felt we should have further developed UNT Health Science Center over here in Fort Worth; work toward getting the future UNT Law School and UNT Pharmacy school for our main campus while letting TAMU or Texas Tech fight over who got the south Dallas County project. NOTE: Even Lee Jackson in a DMN article several months ago was extolling the (already known) fact that "UNT is not a wealthy institution" (or words to that affect). I've thought this from the git-go when new stadium talk first began but we will still need the Big Donor to get this project jump-started at our Eagle Point Campus. Of course, I also feel UNT needs to expand its horizons as far as potential donors are concerned and go outside the box and its usual potential donor list in order to develop the one(s) who could be that Big Donor. Don't know about any of you, but it really does sorta' bother me that many pro athletes have contract$ that could more than get our new stadium jump-started but..................oh well.

What I finally (duh?) began to see as the fly in the ointment for anything significant being built in Denton (like a $50 million football stadium) is the blatant cold fact for many of us on this board that Lee Jackson will have to eventually do the job that was commissioned for him to do by our UNT System Board of Regents and that is..........to build a free-standing university in south Dallas County. With that in mind and with another "ice water in the face" fact is that our entire UNT System endowment last I checked was still under $40 million. In fact, when RV came in talking about raising $90 million for athletics, he should have checked back then (if he in fact didn't) what the school's total endowment was before making such a goal; but on the other hand, look at what some alums at other schools (T. Boone Pickens) will do for that part of a university that past UNT presidents have called our "picture window of the university."

Muchos gracias for the correcion', MG61. Fact still remains no matter how many showed up in that "2 win" season (Fry's 2'nd Fall at UNT) that the Mean Green still beat a Top 20 ranked team which made those of us who were around at that time very proud. Hayden Fry got his ticket to the Big 10 because of his OOC wins over known football schools. But it was like Dandy Don Meredith used to say on Monday Night Football and I quote "The Danderoo" as Cosell called him: "If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas" and the next part of this post is for sure hindsight with a a very big "IF"..........but for the life of me, had Hayden Fry only been our AD and head football coach when UNT had 32,000 students (like now), 100,000 plus citizens in the City of Denton (like today) and now almost 600,000 population in Denton County, one could only wonder or speculate what could have taken place with a dramatically larger constituency than we had in the 1970's.