PlummMeanGreen

Half the problem for us will be creating a vacancy for our head football coaches position, but what might arguably be the most important hire in Mean Green football history will hopefully turn out to be a crowd-pleaser; that is, pleasing to the largest majority of the UNT community since we know all of our people aren't going to be happy all the time. Whoever can raise our "Phoenix off the desert floor" and turn MG football into (at least) an annual Top 40 football program (and some Top 25 appearances as well) will be more than worth whatever UNT officials can come up with to pay such a coach AND................. ...............there are very many creative ways budget-wise from within our campus to come up with such extra monies if only our officials will merely decide to get creative with this projected upcoming new hire. IMPACT COACH? GET OUTTA' HERE! We all saw what kind of impact player Super Jamario Thomas was his true freshman year (with a better offensive line in front of him back then, of course, right)? Well, at a school like NORTH TEXAS where our getting any regular semblance of statewide attention (among 9 other D1-A schools in the Lone Star State) has been difficult over the long haul. PLUS....... our getting such attention from regional sports media-types that we should know by now you cannot fool with disguised success. No matter how they made their criteria, the Texas Bowl officials still could have included a 10'th Lone Star State-based UNT in their pool of Texas schools and no one can sugar-coat this to make many of us feel different about that situation, either. But for UNT to garner the kind of recognition a school our size and alumnus constituency deserves just has not always been an easy feat for us to attain in Mean Green Country the last 25 years (and, once again, any NT football media guide will substantiate most of the reasons why). .................................................................................... Quick Poll & All You Non-UNT'ers Registered on GMG.com Can't Vote On This One, OK? If UNT could copy UTEP & hire a head football coach who would have our present sophmore class ranked in the Top 25 in his 2'nd year in Denton, would you as an NT Ex and MG fan go for such a hire or........... .............do you prefer the 4, 5 or 9 year plan with an "unknown commodity/project type coach" and then with our pretty well staying toward the bottom of NCAA D1-A as compared to most all the other D1-A conferences? OK, so this is really not a poll at all and probably a bit of a loaded question of which I'm sure we all know how most of our UNT community would vote with such a question, but WHY NOT GO FOR THE GUSTO COUPLED WITH HIGHER AMBITIONS? UTEP & IDAHO SURELY DID. ..................................................................................... Of course, we of UNT have more than done our part in keeping things a tad low profile in Denton during an era (the past 25 years?) of which NCAA D1-A made its most dramatic and biggest growth (while we of UNT vascillated from one coach to another). Remember the Dallas Morning News feature on how much all of Texas' NCAA D1-A schools were spending in the "arms race" and how embarrassingly low ours was in that article? Won't a new NCAA D1-A sized football stadium in Denton, Texas, America, make up for much lost time and lost revenue in the long term? BUT THIS TIME AROUND @ UNT..............we MUST do whatever it takes to come up with the best impact coach availabe out there; and this time around, folks, we just cannot afford to hire another unknown commodity or "project coach" where it takes at least 4 years to get MG football back in the above .500 column (it was in DD's 5'th season at UNT that we finally got above .500)..........IMHO, we need such a impact coaches hire at UNT and one who will arrive in Denton on a dead run with his not looking back until he has pulled off (in 5 or 6 or more years) such a quality football program (a la Fry) because of his MG football teams having many impressive high profile and significant (OOC?) wins whereas Big 10 or Big 12 schools would want to come to Denton, Texas, America, to see what in the heck all the commotion was all about. AFTER ALL, GOOD COACHES DO COME AND GO, RIGHT? Some of you young gun alums might get frustrated thinking how we might eventually lose a real good future MG head football coach to a higher profile school one day but........such is the reality of a football program's co-existance in the non-BCS and with even among many BCS football schools for that matter. NOTE: Anyone think Baylor's head football coach will stay in Waco for long if he has success with the Bear football program? Even TCU couldn't get Dennis Francione to stay in Fort Worth with a $1,000,000 per year contract waiting on the table for him to sign---he boogied off to Alabama instead.

' Jack, I have to ask the question: At which point did we see such a dramatic ascension of Mean Green football going up the 119 NCAA D1-A step-ladder as to create such an urgency or need to keep giving DD those gol' darned contract extensions? Such extensions which now has us in a bit of a financial pickle as some on this board predicted might happen with the last contract extension? Surely being the best of the worst of NCAA D1-A did not create some kind of nirvana for our present UNT leaders which influenced all those contract extensions when they didn't really seem to be required (especially at an SBC level of recruiting) and if it was such a level as that (SBC success) that really did it for them, I fear for us all as far who will be the one who takes Darrell Dickey's place as our next head football coach. IF YOU DON'T LEARN FROM YOUR HISTORY, ARENT' YOU LIKELY TO REPEAT IT (especially at UNT)? Seems UNT leaders would do some serious research of what has worked and what hasn't worked at UNT this time around as to check our last 25 years of hiring head football coaches in Denton. Perhaps by doing this they will all discover for themselves how many times we were in the Top 25 during this last quarter of a century of Mean Green football? (None is the answer to that question) AND.....................if aTop 25 program such as a Bosie State or a UTEP has shown can even be done at their locales is not what our school's athletic program is shooting for, then just what is it that are we shooting for, Jack?

And aren't our former Big West conference mates, ie, the BSU Broncos ranked something like, uh, #16 in one of the polls this week? We don't deserve less in Denton and at our alma mater, folks, no matter what our scenario has been and the excuses we've been given by those on our payroll whose talents (or lack thereof) have the power to make or break us. We just have to hire those in Denton who know how to pull off what Boise State has been doing for awhile now and it might be such hires who have done all this at other NCAA D1-A outposts in their past?

Fair enough... As I was asking, Arkstfan, was just curious as to why all the interest, that's all. And yes I agree, we do need such a personality at UNT and to expand on that, one who can (with his entourage) swagger into (Texas Style) some DFW Metroplex Fortune 500 C.E.O's conference room and tell him how important it would be for his company to kick in about $20 million or more (to get stadium naming rights first of all) and to help this football program that has been in a deep sleep for most of the last 25 years at lower levels of competition and.....................for many long time MG fans (much longer than myself) of NTSTC, NTSC and NTSU see many of their dreams for Mean Green football come true while they are still around to witness all that.......... ..............as well as finally, finally, finally.................. see our alma mater rid itself of its single most negative perception-creator facility-wise (ask those of us who have worked in DFW a few decades or more about that); anyway, that well known edifice posted about numerous X's on GMG.com that after its implosion will one day become part of the Texas Department Transportation interstate system as well as the rest of the acreage becoming future homes of more academic centers of learnings and dormitories to handle more projected boom growth in Denton, Denton County and (of course) last and certainly not least......... @ THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS!

Want an impact coach who won't need a 4, 5 or 9 year plan in Denton? Well.........here he is! My dark horse choice of the best name coach that we could possibly get if we went outside our usual box of the last 25 years of less than successful hires at UNT and with such a hire as Rick Neuheisel who IMHO would create the fastest season tickets "record" sales in our football programs entire history. Such a hiring by NORTH TEXAS would create much buzz and media interest statewide (and even perhaps even create a bit of jealousy) among many of our Texas D1-A college collegues who would start wondering out loud: Why couldn't our AD have hired that guy instead of freakin' NORTH TEXAS for crissakes'?!?!?! Rick Neuheisel who Troy Aikman says was one of 2 QB coaches (the other one with Dallas whose name escapes me); but with Neuheisel as one of those 2 key coaches who would make him the QB he would become AND................. with Neuheisel's national name ID could even possibly help UNT find the Big Donor to help him get "his new football stadium" quicker than anyone listed on this wish list of prospective coaches; and the above lists of names of which some might create many of those "Who in the Heck Is That" type questions)? Question: Would UNT with Rick Neuheisel as our coach be able to recruit our first true blue chip QB in our school's entire football recruiting history? Might Troy Aikman even put in a phone call and a good word about his former mentor to some Texas HS blue chip QB that Neuheisel is going after to play in our new football stadium? AND THEN.............might UNT start using the forward pass as an integral part of our game plan rather than using the forward pass as some kind of trick play? Of course, college football enthusiasts and purists such as those on Scotties Voy Forum Board and here on GMG.com know all about the high potential of those they've listed and those who would probably be good selections in MG Country most any other time of our last 25 years, but how much would Denton and Denton County's Mr. Joe Casual/Borderline Fan know about them as to cause many of that group to want to buy Mean Green football season tickets as early as next Spring (such as a Rick Neuheisel hire would probably pull off with such fans). Of course, all this with Rick Neuheisel just my .02, but also using the example of Idaho U right after they announced Dennis Erickson as their new coach and how they had record season ticket sales in Vandal Country in a matter of a few weeks after he was announced as their school's new head football coach. FWIW (and based on our less than successful hiring traditions of the last 25 years in Denton)...................I think Rick Neuheisel would be a dark horse candidate for our head football coaches job because I honestly don't think many of our present UNT officials would think they could even convince him to even say "hello" to them; but, hey, all this is all about speculation, right?

CHASING DD BALL RABBITS AND MORE.... First of all, DD will never quit or resign from his job at UNT even if his physician had a gun to his head insisting he get out of coaching today. BUY-OUT? I've heard anywhere from $400K to $800K but don't know how reliable those figures are. If DD stays, how much will his style of coaching (and stealth recruiting of many project players) cost UNT at the turnstiles, donations by "would be" Big Donors who could double or triple what the MG Club presently brings in by itself with all its new members and of course, his present football program of which its trends show all indications that it has not bottomed out but probably would (completely) in another year or two. Can UNT really afford 2 more years of DD-Style football? So would all that make it worth buying out DD's contract even if it were as high as $800K? In a perfect Mean Green World, DD's 4 bowl teams would have (each) been ranked inside the Top 40 (although preferably in the Top 25) and recruiting would have been what it would be for most any other NCAA D1-A football program that has been to 4 bowl games in a row. As we all know by now, our MG World has proven to not be perfect after those 4 bowl games. Some of you recognized this long before I did. IF WE ARE GOING TO PLAY BIG MONEY GAMES.......THEN PLAY SOME REALLY BIG MONEY GAMES, RIGHT? It seems of late UNT's Big Money games have dwindled down to the range of anywhere between $300K-$400K while there are some schools out there (I believe in the SEC?) that are paying as much as $700K to $800K per game with their guarantees. FWIW................If we are going to have one Big Money game per football season then why don't we schedule a truly big money game since the results would most likely be the same? Wouldn't you want to make an additional $400K by playing a Tennesse or Auburn over such schools as Texas if you were still going to get pretty well the same scoreboard results? If we had played one of those $800K games this season, ol' Extended Contract$ U wouldn't be in the pickle our leaders have rubber-stamped us into the last few years. CAN YOU SELL A COMB TO A BALD-HEADED MAN? DD Ball became virtually un-sellable and un-marketable for many of our NT community after big losses to Tulsa and La Tech last Fall. That confirmed many fears that our recruiting had not been keeping pace the previous 2-3 years and I think most any of you would say the Bulldogs and Golden Hurricane football programs would have been more than fair barometers for UNT to use as comparisons. What was more confusing how La Tech has not been bowling for quite awhile and if we can use last season's game results, they were still out-hustling us on the recruiting trail . I think as of last Saturday night, DD-Style Ball has become virtually un-marketable to many more of you who were not yet convinced until the ASU loss. 6 overtimes against a lowly thought of FIU football program should have been enough. I think many more would also now say that DD's 9 lives as head football coach at UNT have just about run their course. ............................................. If DD's buyout were $800K, then just maybe the over-staffed UNT athletic dept. (that is, over-staffed for a non-competitive in most every varsity sport non-BCS program such as ours is); anyway, might the UNT athletic department need to do some serious down-sizing to help toward getting some of that buyout money? Also such a down-sizing for the reason of positioning ourselves to hire someone who may need one of those expanding balloon contracts that would increase significantly each succeeding year after we have absorbed the brunt (shock?) of having paid out all of DD contract exten$ion$. Of course, we wouldn't have such buyout problems today if not for those "every other football season" extended contract recommendations and subsequent approvals. Remember how many back then were wondering while asking the question: "Why do they feel the need to keep doing this with DD's contract in light of how low we rank among everyone else even during bowl years?" And that another reason some think we have had questionable decision-making by some of our key UNT leaders. If UNT coaches were using the old recruiting card excuse and saying: "We need those extensions to our contracts to help our recruiting" then I think you might of heard some extremely large belly laughs among those of the MG Nation who have been following our recruiting life among the projects, ie, our brand of stealth recruiting that heavily depended on all our "project" recruits development. Sure we had a few successes with some projects, but I think most didn't develop (or stay around long enough to develop) and I feel our W/L record of the last 2 years more than proves that point. This is one helluva' mess we're in with all the extra contract extension$ that many of you predicted back in the day might come back to bite us in the a$$! Well, I think those who were preaching all this back then have a much, much larger choir to preach to who have now all suddenly become believers. Praise be to Eppy!

Personally, I'd like to see UNT Regent (and NT football letterman) C. Dan Smith take the ball and run with this next hiring. From all I've heard, he knows what UNT needs to be successful again (and at a higher profile would be my guess with that). NOTE: Quite frankly, I'm more than surprised how "high profile hire" has received as many votes in this poll as it has inasmuch as how brow beaten (by some UNT leaders of past years) many of our younger generation NT Exes have been for many of that group to think we could ever do much more at UNT than just go with yet another "project" type of hire. I think we all know by now what recruiting "projects" has done to us long term and even at an SBC level of competition.

So Arkstfan, what kind of hire do you think we of UNT should dedicate the next decade (DD's has 9 yrs under .500) of our football program's future? AND............many of us do appreciate your regular visits, your concern and the excellent information you have given this forum numerous times and all that from an attorney's perspective, but why such a concern with who UNT hires as our next head football coach? Would you, ASU and the rest of the SBC be a bit concerned if UNT actually got another Hayden Fry-type hire and your knowing what his higher profile successes were at NTSU that no SBC school has yet to duplicate nor does it look that one will do so any time soon? Let me answer the aforementioned question for all of the Sun Belt Conference: Sure SBC'ers would be concerned if we got pro-active and found our own version of a "Mike Price" type of hire. And why? Because many of your most knowledgable of college football SBC contemporaries know we once had a coach that reached a level as to where his teams could beat a Tennessee, a UHouston (1 yr B4 they went to the Cotton Bow), an SWC-member SMU Mustang football team, a U of Memphis, etc, etc, etc, Matter of fact, I am sure that many of your fellow SBC'ers, Arkstfan, would get a rather huge rush if UNT stayed the present course (and direction) and Darrell Dickey were to be back at UNT next Fall and the one after that and even the one after that. Arkstfan, if you haven't already done this and I'd bet you would have with all your most impressive knowledge of college football, but please do check (again) our last 25 years of head football coach hirings in Denton, Texas, America (and the roller coaster rides each of those gave us at the lower depths of competition (except maybe Corky Nelson to an extent) and tell us if we of UNT can do much worse with whoever we hire no matter whose job it is to hire our next head football coach. Matter of fact, we are not doing well right now with present UNT's varsity coaches who would (not) be over .500 in wins/losses with a few years on the UNT payroll.................... so just maybe that being at the top of our list as a major concern from many with who actually ends up on our final list of potential head football coach hires when the time comes to fill that position? And................congratulations on your school's win over the MG the other night...........hopefully, we will soon be back in SBC contention and hopefully at a higher profile among all other NCAA D1-A schools. Hopefully, it will be NORTH TEXAS that takes the SBC to the next level (Top 25 ratings for starters?) that even WAC and MAC football champions have taken their respective leagues to such heights; but if its the ASU Indians that gets their first----so be it! Just so some SBC football program raises the bar to Top 25 status (even Top 50 will do for the moment) and such a status for all our schools to recruit toward and start shooting for as all our goals.

2 Questions: (1) How many of you think our SBC-mates "REALLY" want the University of North Texas to go with a hire profile name coach as our future and next new head football coach? Everyone who thinks they do say a very loud "I Do!" (Huh, come on now.........LOUDER!......................FWIW, I'm not hearing any "I Do's" from anyone)?!?!? (2) For you who really are interested in UNT's football future, why such a high interest in a "offensive or defensive coordinator" as our next hire? I would see that as a "business as usual at UNT" generic hire that many non-UNT'ers who have (obviously) voted in this poll would love to see UNT hire "OVER" a high profile name coach. NOTE: I would defer to GrayEagleOne (who has seen anywhere from 4 to 5 decades of Mean Green football); anyway, to a post of his and his theory on "coordinators" as those who just might not be able to handle the many added extra chores of being a head football coach? BUT...........again, because of so many non UNTer's registerered with GMG.com who are (obviously) voting in this poll, because of that this could never be considerred a scientifically accurate poll no matter the results of this poll........... ...............but rest assured to all, not one alum or fan of UNT Mean Green football would object to a high profile head football coaches hire if one were to fall in our lap as did happen at UTEP and Idaho U (but nevertheless, those 2 schools upper echelon leaders were pro-active enough to the extent that one would fall in their laps, of course. Folks, lets not kid ourselves, but this group of non-UNT'ers who are voting in this poll know exactly what happened last time UNT hired a high profile name football coach. They won't like the results of all that again if UNT officials don't do the "cronyism" hire (to quote Silver Eagle) and hire someone who could help their future off the UNT payroll (as far as a high profile, uh, reference, that is)? Who UNT hires for our next head football coach will affect everything from donations to season ticket sales in 2007 and hiring a Buford T. Ledbetter from some Deep South university is not going to sell many season tickets or cause some to want to give in larger number$ in Denton, Texas, America. Just how many of us native Texans (&, uh, NORTH TEXAS alums) will it take to convice all our numerous non-Texan athletic department employees of such things until their light bulbs turn on? That is, telling them even more such cold harsh facts that they might not want to hear from all us multi-decade NT Exes/ MG fans (and non-experts) as to what will work and what won't work at our alma mater? Aren't 15,000 per home game averages at Fouts Field and that even during 4 bowl years a pretty big red flag and subtle hint that some things just might need to be done differently this time around?

We need more than a one man seach committee like we had with Craig Helwig and thats for damn sure. Surely those on our UNT Board of Regents who have the most interest in the direction of our football program will be monitoring all this "VERY" closely because as many of you have started posting and I will paraphrase each and every one of your theme: "We cannot afford to screw up the hiring of the next head football coach at UNT."

As I recall, the UNT community was surprised when Hayden Fry showed interest in our head football coaches job back post-1972 football season; especially after the previous season being a 1 win season by Rod Rust's Mean Green team. Fry had to think we had nothing in the area of much talent as the Mean Joe Greene gang were long gone. I would bet that UTEP (to an extent) was even surprised when Mike Price showed sincere interest in their job, too, since they were hardly a school with a high profile football tradition but rather known for its basketball. And BTW, didn't we have a "surprise" big name coach apply for our job after Dennis Parker was fired?

Sorry, El Paso Eagle, about leaving those off the list. Just curious (and there'd never by any way to know) but........... ...............I wonder which one of the above choices that those registered with GMG.com without UNT ties (and those who may even want to see MG football stay toward the middle or bottom of the SBC football race the next few years); anyway, I wonder who that group of non-UNT'ers would be casting their votes for?

Holy Cow! I can agree with parts of your above post, stebo. So what's next for mankind, the Apocolypse and Armageddon!?!? But couldn't it also be as they often say, stebo, inasmuch that: "Strangers do make good bedfellows?" (I say that in a hetero' sort of way, of course). (Yet that in reference to your saying RV having to work with a stranger or someone he is not familiar). But I would also wager that most higher ups at the majority of non-BCS outposts have never broken bread (or know personally) the kind of higher profile type hires that we might hire. But in the future when the need comes I would hope that UNT leaders would look at our past with all the hirings that did not capture the imagination of most of our NT community and try the best they can to hire one that will cause the "lions and the lambs" of the UNT community to unite for the cause of getting this booming university's football program back on the right track.

APPLES & ORANGES, PERHAPS? HAVE A SLICE OF EITHER...............One question might be, Arkstfan, where will the 2006 SBC football champion (after the CUSA 4'th place team most likely schools our SBC champion "again" in the upcoming 2006 NO's Bowl) be ranked among all the other 119 D1-A schools when all is done and said after this 2006 college football campaign? 25 years of nothingness and very few successes (moslty failure) has caused too many of our best NT Exes and MG fans to go into "accept anything" status & accept just about anything UNT leaders would dish down---no questions asked. Those days need to end very, very soon, fellow alums! Hey folks! It's our alma mater---NOT THEIRS, DAMN IT! Yet I do agree with you, Arkstfan, (as I most always do with your posts) there really is no magic in hiring, unless a school plays a very pro-active part in trying to make their own magic. Sorta' like someone who once said about luck: You make your own luck? UTEP and Idaho made their own magic with each of their own high profile hires because that is just what they sought out to do. At UNT, we would have those, too, who would say all that is "The Impossible Dream" because (most likely) such a dream cannot happen under their watch. As you would already know, Arkstfan, a traditional basketball school over in El Paso, Texas, that had never even smelled Top 25 in their entire football history got Top 25 rankings in their new high profile coach's 2'nd year on the UTEP payroll. Idaho has already shown signs of life with their football program previoulsy unseen no matter how they finish this year. Fry's first year at UNT he was merely a modest 5-5-1. His 2'nd year at UNT his team only won 2 games; yet Coach Fry's success would come later as he recruited "his players" that would give him the kind of success whereas his team the year after the "2 win" season beat (among others) the University of Tennessee Volunteers and the University of Houston (the year before the Cougars would go to the New Years Day Cotton Bowl game). You don't really have to have the so-called 5 or 6 or 9 year plan for success with the right person, folks. Coach MIke Price (also) hardly came to El Paso with an altar boy image, either, for those of you of UNT who think our own future "possible" high profile hire has to have nail scars in both hands. UNT VS UTEP ALL TIME FOOTBALL SERIES RECORD: UNT..........13 Wins UTEP..........5 Wins ** 5 ties Who out there among you of the Mean Green Nation would let anyone at UNT today convice you that we are just fine as we are now AND..........that we don't deserve for our Mean Green football program what UTEP has been getting of late (and what it appears is happening with former SBC-mate Idaho, with their own high profile hire aka one Mr. Dennis Erickson?

First of all, this poll as any other poll on GMG.com will not be a scientifically accurate one no matter the results because of so many who are registered with GoMeanGreen.com who have no UNT ties or interest at all. In fact, some of that group would probably vote for what they would perceive would be our worse possible choice for a new head football coach at UNT. ......................................................................... Most all head football coaches outside the Top 10 NCAA D1-A programs (such as those presently coaching at non BCS schools) aspire to be a coach at a Top 10 school for their careers if they continue being a head football coach at the NCAA D1-A level at all. One day Coach Dickey will move on whether that happens with him making that decision or top UNT officials make that choice for him. No one who I know (who can separate the man from the coach) would wish DD nothing but good fortune whenever that day arrives (whatever the time-table). UNT made its biggest strides in Mean Green football from Point A to Point B when it last hired a high profile name coach such as Hayden Fry was when we hired him in December of 1972 right after SMU had fired him. Fry's teams had no convenient bowl game for their rewards as the fledgling SBC provided for its champion from the beginning. That was not Fry's fault but the Commissioner of the Missouri Valley Conference (one Micky Holmes); but there was no trend in that day for the "lesser" conferences to get bowl ties; in fact, during that era such a happening as that would have been considered a pipe dream. The "Fry" choice (or high profile name) from me will be no surprise to you who have read my epistles on this forum; but for you who are new and have just joined GMG.com or those of you who are new lurkers, you are reading these thoughts for the first time. Quite frankly, like many of you have already posted with you own dire concerns, I, too, fear what present UNT leaders might come up with for a new head football coach at UNT once that day arrives for such a hiring because in Denton we've had too many "buddy-buddy hires" or "good ol' boy hires" (with no name ID whatsoever) and because of that.... SUCH HIRINGS THE PRIME REASON MEAN GREEN FOOTBALL HAS BEEN ON ONE HELLUVA' ROLLER COASTER RIDE FOR US THE LAST 25 YEARS WITH NO UPWARD BOUND PROGRESS IN NCAA D1-A? BACK IN THE DAY...................as far as Fry taking us from Point A to Point B at a higher profile (AND..........please do hear me out, all you SBC apologist who are happy with that level of Bottom NCAA Quadrant successes and competition>>>>>>>>>>With Fry, UNT had wins and closer played games with "name" schools as our opponents. For you newbies who need further proof, (once again) just check any NT football media guide which will show our football history starting back from the early 1900's.

Jamario Thomas and Johnny Quinn ARE the best at their respective positions, but its really a gol' darn shame that they don't have the supporting cast (its about recruiting quality "every" recruiting season, folks) to be able to prove it in a more grandiose way. Hopefully, "The Search" has already "unofficially" begun, but at UNT.............God only knows what we can expect with even that. AND.................what is sad is how many on this forum by mid-week will make their usual 180 degree turn around on all this and go back to justifying all this crapola.

You've hit the nail on the head with even more strong doses of the truth, Eagle Man. So I suppose because of that...........................welcome to stebo's, uh, "Mean Green Moron Club"! Sadly, Bobby Ray (not so long ago) said nothing had been raised toward a new stadium. Question is: For those who have been charged from the git-go of their employment at UNT to raise millions for anything, how much of that has been raised? So does all this point to some more cold harsh truth that what "someone" on this board has been saying for a long, long time that for UNT to even dream of getting jump-started on anything relating to building a new football stadium that UNT is still going to need a, uh, BIG DONOR?

IN RESPONSE TO STEBO: Give all this another 20 years to what you've already seen at the NCAA's lower depths of SBC/Bottom 10 competition, uh, "Mr. Mean Green" and (again) let that be another 20 years of the same o' same o' from UNT leadership and then get back and join the rest of us, uh, morons , "stebo", ie, Mr. You Who Would Think You Know Whats Goin' On (but whose posts almost always prove the point that you really don't have a damn clue as to what is "really" goin' on). You seem to be the "kiss up" type around some NT coaches who would give you the time of day and the "kiss up" kind that gets offended when someone hits you with a strong dose of the truth about (what would even be obvious to a visually impaired person) as far as the state of this athletic program or some criticism to a few of your drinking buddies. FWIW, UNT probbly needs less drinkers and better coaching if truth be known. The quality of athletics that any NT varsity media guide would indicate we've been getting in Denton would probably drive many, many alums (at any other NCAA D1-A outpost) to drinking. Now get back to your drinking buddies and drink yet another toast for even more "Mean Green Mediocrity" at the school that gives contract extensions to mediocre coaches which is tantamount to NT leadership (whose rubber-stamping and approval for such extentions) is saying to the MG Nation: "We just can't do any better than this so we'll just keep giving you all more of the same." (And BTW, we want you to keep investing into this kind of management and level of NCAA competition, too) Funny thing (or maybe moreso sadly) is how one day such leaders will boogie their way out of Denton to another job and leave all their sludge behind for all of us to enjoy yet another 25 years. And you say, uh, moron, stebo? Isn't that a case of your being the pot calling the kettle black? Moron? Go look in your bathroom mirror for the true definition of what that is. Have A Nice Day.

And with our on-going 25 year tradition of some terrifically poor head football coaches hires (check your media guides for further proof on that), wouldn't it be just like NORTH TEXAS to get all warm and fuzzy and hire "one of our own" from our present coaching staff; yet one that has been as big a part of all this under .500 performance the last 9 years as the one presently in charge? Hey! Don't forget! We're the school that has persevered the career of an 18 year "tenured" (I suppose) varsity coach who would probably never hit .500 in W/L's if she were to be in Denton another 18 years (which at the North Texas of late is not beyond the realm of that possibly happening). So isn't it still for many just like former UNT basketball coach Bill Blakely used to say: "I've seen everything around here except childbirth?." You on the NT payroll need to just put yourselves in the shoes of NT Exes and MG fans to try to understand where many of us are coming from after years of empty promises and no real noticeable progress since the mid to late 1970's. If you're putting yourselves in the shoes of any NT alum to experience the same roller coaster ride many have experienced with this athletic program and that could be done, you, too, wouldn't like what you saw, either. Most alums just want to see their school's football program progress and improve above and beyond what they it is presently doing. I bet that would be the case at most of the other 118 NCAA D1-A schools, too. So..............this is really not rocket science folks. You just simply hire people who have the ability and skins on the wall proving such ability for having turned other programs around while at the same time taking those programs up to the next level. At UNT, we just don't need any more projects--both on the athletic staff and all those under the radar recruiting gambles as well.

Anyone think what we have presently happening with Mean Green football is going to really inspire potential Big Donors out there? There was a hope among some that 4 bowl game appearances would help UNT fundraisers cull out a Big Donor or Big Corporation to help UNT get jump-started with its new stadium. Well? Hellsbellls, Texas Tech got SBC Communications to give them $20 million cash just to help refurbish Jones Stadium. Of course, the "then" Texas Tech president (a Texan BTW ) knew just the right ones to know down in San Antonio where SBC Comm. was headquartered. We seem to never have those from UNT who know the right people to know when it comes to similar things happening with us such as what happened at Texas Tech. Oh well.............. And maybe just another reason the need for the high profile name coach in UNT's future? A football coach who can swagger right into a Fortune 500 company's headquarters here in the Metroplex without much need for an introduction because (most likely) the C.E.O. of that company would have already had research done by UNT that would indicate that said C.E.O. was (in fact) a college football enthusiasts. For certain these are merely projected scenarios, but even just a scenario seems more than what we have on the table working for us now. Funny how UNT had some rather big bucks to throw at Gene Stallings as a very short-term consultant to say things most who have been around for awhile already knew about our program, but some have wondered why a similar consultant fee could not have been offered to Hayden Fry with the prime purpose of his culling out some Big Donors here in the DFW Metroplex. Coach Fry is approaching his 80's so UNT has probably fiddle-farted away yet another golden opportunity to have used this man's talent$. BUT...............anyone else think Fry's 17 years in the DFW Metroplex as a D-1 head football coach, ie, 11 years at SMU and 6 at UNT might have been a rather Big Hint that this man probably knew more (by first name) than a baker'$ dozen$ worth of Texa$ tycoon type$? Probably dramatically more than all our new non-Texan administrative hires and, of course, all our non-Texan multi-year athletic staff types who still probably need a Mapsco to find their way out of Denton and into Dallas/Fort Worth. Nevertheless, anyone who has ever seen Hayden Fry work a room would quickly begin to recognize that this most charismatic man could have probably raised more than just the minimum amount of monies needed to jump-start a new stadium but.................we just do things a bit different at UNT as of late, now don't we?

Uh.....................OK...... Next subject please...

Fair enough, CaribbeanGreen... You have to understand that we Baby Boomers (and older) are at the "take your time, but hurry up" stage of our lives.

REVISED JUST FOR THE SHAFT'STER! First of all, its amazing that there would be any semblance of debate for the desire from many posters to have a better football program that any UNT football media guide would tell all we are simply not getting at the University of North Texas. It's in the books, folks, in plain o' black and white for all to read. AND.........shaft, O ye who would support the perseverance of SBC/Bottom 10 football at UNT: I'd rather have a pre-historic win over the University of Tennessee than a modern day loss to Middle Tennesse State University, and come on now, shaft, in your heart of hearts, uh, wouldn't you, too? Also, it only took that basketball school in El Paso 2 years under their high profile hire of a coach to get the Miners in the Top 25! What do we have at UNT-Denton, a 25 year plan to get the Mean Green in the Top 25? :blink: Shaft, speaking of blowhards? You seem to do some of your own blowing hard with all your consistent stances and posts that supports a less than mediocre athletic program at UNT. A UNT athleitc program that has "ONE" varsity coach with a few years on campus over .500 suggests we are less than perfect, now doesn't it? And for one who says he's one bad mother you sure don't fit the demographic of a large majority of male Texans most of whom have far more expectation for their alma mater's football programs than you and a shrinking number on this forum seem to. For certain, though, you really do have an appropriate name which best describes what long time (several decades plus) fans of Mean Green athletics have been getting for most of the last 9 years, and truth be known, for almost a quarter a century now. ................................................................. FWIW, we are fartin' in the wind with this present athletic program and anyone who can say John Hayden Fry 3X's in a row while clicking their Nocona ropers 3X's at the same time without stuttering would tell you the same damn thing. ................................................................. But you really do like your DD Ball type football, shaft? If so, then you'd almost have to be DD's long lost cousin or just maybe you have drinking buddies in the athletic department that you would support with what any UNT media guide suggests are less than mediocre efforts at best, right? OR............just maybe you're one of those that our NCAA Top 10 tailgating program is all you really need on Game Day while a poorly coached college football team and what has become annual "not enough volume of D1-A talent" recruiting hauls comes in 2'nd place to all the Top 10 tailgating? Also, shaft, with what you obviously think is a legitimate "got it going on" college football program in Denton, explain why in the hell there are (on an annual basis) an average of 15,000 empty seats of fans per home game whose non-presence should really be a rather strong statement to leaders at UNT; that is, those 15,000 empty seats being a most subtle way (even in absentia) for those seats to "loudly" tell UNT leaders that even 4 bowl trips with DD Ball didn't cause them to buy into that style of a college football program or (in general) what this present group of athletic employees are selling as a whole. To quote one out of that group: "Did You All Like That?" And many of this group who will never get higher profile jobs than North Texas because potential employers at any other higher profile NCAA D1-A schools just may not feel the same about UNT athletics as your posts, shaft, suggest you feel. NOTE: You think such potential employers after just one look at each of our varsity sports media guides which would show each of those program's overall records over the last several years................AND with only one of those varsity sports programs at UNT having a coach with an above .500 record in W/L's? Might all that just be a real deal killer for those trying for their escape out of Denton to go to most any NCAA affiliated school? Unfortunately, it apparently won't be merely a few UNT leaders who assist in helping keep this thing in Denton, Texas, America, Small Time and going nowhere fast from reading various posts of those who would say they know their college football and then their having the unadulterated gonads to even suggest that we are getting a good football program at............... NORTH TEXAS? Insert a Norm Hitzges type giggle with that! Wouldn't hurt for those of you who I believe to be part of the Silent Majority with this subject at to start voicing your concerns on all this, too. I know many out there now who will not give one yankee dime to UNT until the Barnum and Baily gang are long gone and they themselves................ancient history. Yet doesn't it just make all the sense in the world that it would be UNT located in one of the Fortune 500 meccas and populations centers of the entire USA that would hear that Road Runner "beep beep" sound with a school like Troy U (not located in a Fortune 500 mecca) to dance circles around UNT in raising monies for their new stadium while we sit around with our fingers up our nostrils talking about a new stadium we will someday have in the sweet by and by in our glorious future? And which school between ours and Troy U seems to have the most momentum on their side now (and that for a school not too many years removed from an NCAA D1-AA classification)? A Troy U momentum which includes a new stadium of which the Trojans opened on an ESPN national telecast with a win over a #19 ranked Missouri Tigers? Also, a Troy U football program who (at least) can play the Big Boys close some of the time. At UNT for the last few years, we can count on not playing the Big Boys close any time we tee it up. So come on shaft................ don't hide it from us any longer, do divulge to us all who you must be related to in the UNT athletic department or who it is from athletics that is your good beer drinking bud', OK? Why? Because you'd have to be influenced by one of the above to suggest what we are getting at UNT is worthy of any semlbance of continuance.

My bad..........I should have been more specific about "much of the 70's" but CB, I would bet you knew which part of the 1970's I was talking about. You know, that part of NT football history your group would sometimes like to do a bit of revisionist history to support 4 bowl games that didn't do what 4 bowl game appearance should have done for any 1-A football program (except maybe to get what any aspring and progressive NCAA D1-A football program would have today and that an Athletic Center). For those who are still (for whatever reason) hanging in there with a DD Ball type football program with NCAA D1-A football statistics that has Mean Green football annually ranked somewhere between #90 thru #117; anyway, just what is the hook that has you and a few wanting to hang onto all this, ie, business as usual? CarribeanGreen, what is it about UNT playing scavenger fish with the rest of the SBC and toward the bottom of NCAA D1-A that has you supporting this as to even post about it as if what we have going on in Denton is some kind of "wave of the future" with how football programs should be run? Tell all of us from the Hayden Fry era and even B4 a a few years after (which is the part of the 70's that I guess you needed specified although I'd wager you would have known that B4 you "conveniently" threw in Rod Rusts 1 "W" football season record of 1972 to help you get your needed number that would assist you in supporting present mediocrity); anyway, please do specify in detail what it is that the rest of us should be just as excited about (as you obviously are) with a football program now in its 2'nd year of losing which suggests to all that our football program has impressed few (recruits?) outside Denton and a dwindling number on GMG.com even during 4 bowl years (with not "ONE" Top 25 ranking during any of those 4 bowl years appearances to put it bluntly)? CG, many of us would honestly be open to hear each of your detailed and specified reasons as to why we should be as excited about all this as you seem to be (with all your "pro-DD Ball style football" posts) and we might even be more open-minded toward the reason(s) you would list than you seem to be toward the ones we've listed that more than supports our argument with all this (and it would at any other NCAA D1-A outposts for what its worth) OK..............give us your list of why we should continue with all this now, we're all ears. IN CLOSING TO CB: There are many, many more who feel a change for our football program's direction is not only expected, but for the purpose for anyone having any semblance of a chance to market the 2007 Mean Green football season it is all but expected from whoever at UNT who needs to be resposible for pulling the trigger to get this started. TO THE NEW UNT PRESIDENT: CLEAN HOUSE! WE NEED NEW FACES & NEW IDEAS! WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING HAS STILL ONLY CAUGHT THE IMAGINATION AND ATTENTION OF 15K FANS PER HOME GAME AVERAGES THE LAST 9 YEARS...MS. PRESIDENT, 15K IS THE "MINIMUM AVERAGE" FOR UNT TO STAY IN NCAA D1-A:( AND GET RID OF THE BULLSHIPPERS WHO USE EVERY EXCUSE IN THE BOOK FOR HAVING NOT DONE THEIR JOBS AND........... ..............THOSE WHO HAVE CONNED A WHOLE BUNCH OF OUR BEST & MOST SINCERE ALUMS INTO BUYING INTO (what is now) EVEN SUN BELT CONFERENCE MEDIOCRITY! .................................. Madam UNT President: Making decisions to rid ourselves of those who have this program sucking wind in almost every varsity sport is not rocket science and really shouldn't be a very difficult decison if you'd check out all varsity media guides and see for yourself all the mutli-year W/L records listed in black and white in those media guides). In the real business world, such personnel changes are made every day, Madam President, and its usually made on one's production (or lack thereof); but we also know this would be nothing new for you to hear. Count the cost (not just for today) but for the next few years with UNT athletics and just do the right thing for the majority of us NT Exes who just expect more, have seen more and know we can do more again in the near future. The ball (so to speak) is in your hands, Madam President. Sincerely James G. Plummer, II UNT Class of 1976 Proud 6'th Generation Texan ............................... RED INK! To you who keep throwing your good money after bad, what is keeping your hardy handful from causing a small riot with UNT officials over what some people are getting well paid to do as they annually keep most our varsity sports programs toward the bottom of NCAA D1-A)? ? ? ?

REVISED And come on shaft, aren't you a bit biased, too? A big determiner of a programs growth and acceptance (by more than just those who post on GMG.com) are how many go thru its home stadium turnstiles. Hellsbells, most non BCS coaches contracts have attendance clauses written in. Do we at UNT have that? Of course not...............Anyone want to find out why? Get back with us when you do, right? 15,000 (+/-) per game averages at Fouts Field most any year (and bowl years included) for a school that has boomed with such uncanny growth as UNT's right along with the city and county our school is located is the part that no one who supports the direction we've had the last 9 years can ever seem to explain as far as why we've basically had a "no growth" scenario in the UNT football attendance department OR to put it another way...............why a DD Ball style offense (and football in general) has not caught the imagination of more UNT students, alums and fans in general. Folks, we have about 6 million Metroplex citizens 1 hour from our campus football stadium. So can we now also assume 15K per home game averages for MG football games for most of the last decade from some is just as acceptable as "6" UNT football wins against D1-A schools who have over .500 W/L records and those six wins spread out over 9 years? If you were a student in much of the 70's with Mean Green football schedules that included wins and closer-played-games you would not be on this forum trying to justify mediocrity and what we've had for much of the last quarter century. At UNT during much of that previous 25 years, dont' we have to really 'fess up & admit the truth that we are just not very adept or good at hiring those who would take our athletic program much higher than above "C" level (if one would like a grade for most of the last 25 years that those who don't daily live in some kind of a MG Fantasy Land would most likely agree); and FWIW, many of that group would probably give it less than a C. NOTE: As far as varsity basketball at UNT, arent' we all glad we have had the Super Pit for use at UNT graduation time as are the many area high schools who have put it go good use as well? You know, its just sometimes very hard for some of us to believe that UNT is even located in the Lone Star State where Football Is King and most of its Texas college's alums know their football; that is, they know a good college football program from a bad one; they know a college football program on the rise compared to one that is going nowhere fast. If you like SBC success, then you and what will be a shrinking number of you will get all you want with our present direction--that is a guarantee. I do know this, there are some very nicely paid folks at UNT who really don't have to work hard; that is work hard and produce results that show vast improvement across the board. VISIBLE RESULTS? How about at some point having more than 15K per home game averages which we were doing those kind of numbers long B4 all the recent boom growth on campus, in Denton and Denton County which should mean growth at the turnstiles? YOU SAY BUTTS IN SEATS? Yes, butts in seats are the visible results that even many non-BCS coaches would have attendance clauses written into their contracts so that when there is vast improvement at the turnstiles, that they would get a nice pay raise with it (which the attendance increase would help pay out--------------AND not merely wins over the "sisters of the poor" which has yet to impress many inside or outside the DFW Metroplex and fewer in the UNT community each succeeding year. Who out there just cannot see any of this we have happening before our very eyes? For those having a difficult time focussing in on what is happening in our UNT Athletic Dept. you need to get your green-tinted glasses prescription strengthened and get that done prettty damn quick, too. VISIBLE RESULTS? Hey! If we didn't have those tennis facilities being built at Eagle Point Campus, would we even have a Mean Green tennis program as one of our required NCAA's program to meet Title IX; that is, a varsity tennis program of any significance or substance? So aren't any of these minor sports facilities being built or remodeled being done so UNT can even stay in the inter-collegiate athletic business period? ALSO...........those who would praise mediocrity using a bunch of sub .500 year-in- and-year-out SBC programs as more obvious proof that your and our school's athletic dept. bar is really not set very high on an annual basis at all. AND............ those who would recommend pay raises and contract extensions (which has us a bit locked into possibly even more future mediocrity, now doesn't it?) And to some of our best alums who have been duped by so called celebrity and who get "goo goo" eyed because someone from the UNT athletic dept. gave some of that group the time of day? FWIW............the only real celebrity I know on the UNT campus is in our History Department and that "celebrity's" name is Dr. Randolph Campbell who is the best damn history professor in the entire USA for my money.