PlummMeanGreen

Agree, shaneb...BTW, welcome back to this forum. Have read everything that Dr. Roger's has written about UNT. In fact, it was thru Dr. Rogers that I learned of my own family's small chapter of Texas history which played a part in UNT's Texas Centennial celebration (1936). This was when NT alum Julia Smith (who composed our school song) premiered an opera she composed called "Cynthia Ann Parker." It made its "world premier" at the old Main Auditorium before many Texas dignitaries as I recall Dr. Rogers telling me and I believe that included the (then) Texas governor. I visited Willis Library years ago in an attempt to view the original manuscripts or sheet music on Dr. Smith's opera of C. A. Parker, but the University of Texas (Austin) School of Music had checked all of it out for their symphony orchestra's usage in one of their musical programs down in Austin. (Gosh darn those Longhorns)! Shaneb, I know you would have had some interest in all this from the Quanah Parker side of the story since (as I believe you emailed me long ago) you are related to the last great chief of the Commanches. But I'll also quote FFR: God Bless Dr. Rogers.................and his family who grieves his parting.

OK, to get serious... I suppose the SMU folks looked at how high DD's high octane offense has ranked nationally most of the last 9 years which has now caused a Pony bandwagon effect with their now wanting DD as their next "offensive" coordinator. Truly, there must be something in the water in the entire Metroplex at times when it comes to college football and what would create a Top 25 program and the kind of personnel who can deliver such.

It was what many of us thought would be the kind of thing our school would build on. I guess anyone who would have been an NT student at that time would have probably felt the same way--even 30 years later. Many of us still are holding out hope that that kind of MG football history will repeat itself. Glad to have both you and your son in the program, football fan.

For damn sure the (then) Governor of Texas who signed the bill that made us "The University of North Texas" has not forgotten what our name is, either; that governor? The Honorable Bill Clements--SMU grad and Pony football letterman

buff64, I don't think its a matter of the SMU vacancy scaring anyone, I think its more of a matter of the concern of many that UNT will sit on its haunches (like we've basically done in the past that's probably even kept us out of getting in a better conference?) and letting what could be another golden opportunity slip away for our program. It's also a case that many of us are getting tired of so many non-Texans/non-UNT'ers defining who we would be as a university in our own native state of Texas with their (sometimes) selfish and self-serving agendas that has rarely helped our alma mater's athletic program move upward or forward from what most of us have seen the last 25 plus years. Craig Helwig certainly defined it all for us at UNT now didn't he? PS As a reminder: But 5 minutes off the UNT payroll for some of those who would define who we are at UNT and MG Country, yet some of that group will never look back to see what they've left for the rest of us to live with for what can sometimes turn into close to a decade.

That was 1976 and some of us on this board were students and at that game when the Tyler Rose had to make that long run to beat the Mean Green. Of course, we had a big time coach during that era and were not a "projects coach" factory that promoted SBC wins as something very special. Some of us even still think a win over Tennessee has been more important for this progarm than a win over Middle Tennessee--imagine that? None of us can help the fact that UNT officials have continually dropped the ball in hiring HFC's since Hayden Fry left and I think any football media guide would prove our point. Some of us other fans have been waiting a long time to get back to the days you speak of, football fan; in fact, some of us have been waiting for well over 25 plus years for this to happen again. FWIW, few of us don't even care who gets the job done at UNT anymore--but its just a matter now of we just want the job to get done.

Phil, when will this ever end for us? (And please don't tell me when we're 6 feet under, either, OK)?

Jeff, anyone from MG Country would be kidding themselves if they didn't think SMU wasn't looking over their shoulders to see what is going on at UNT. In other words, the SMUts are very aware of what is "growing" whoops, I mean't "going' on at the top of the Golden Triange, ie, Denton, Texas, America. I believe the smarter SMU alum/Mustang fan knows UNT will actually build a new football stadium (larger than theirs) and it will be built at a location that will be much more accessible than their own land-locked stadium which has no ample parking (as if they needed that). In fact, UNT will build its new football palace between 2 Texas interstates that about 60,000 commuters even now pass by where that stadium will be located and that on a daily basis. FWIW, would anyone else think there might be some pretty good future Mean Green football players who will be in some of those 60,000 cars who when they pass by our future new on-campus stadium might even say: "Wonder if I might play in that most impressive college football stadium one day?" I think Rick V has a terrific potential problem on his hands if he hires anyone from MS or Southern Miss at this juncture. I don't think that would have been the case had the last crony hire in Denton turned out to be a "UNT alumnus-pleasing" kind of hire of which we now know............ ...........it was hardly that at all and it ended on a very, very, very sour note for all concerned--including Darrell Dickey; of course, when has any coach left UNT the last 25 years singing our praises? Because of their lack of high profile success, they usually left and went to a HS job for the most part or got out of coaching completely. BEST CASE SCENARIO FOR ALL OF US: IF..............a UNT HFC gets one of his MG football teams in the Top 25, beats some notable OOC schools, recruits annually as a winning football program is supposed to recruit and then said coach get his Big 12 job, then all of us are the winners with that kind of coach now aren't we? Last HFC who left UNT singing our praises (and still does BTW) is a guy some of you young gun alums still don't like to keep hearing about but here's his name anyway..............John Hayden Fry. (BTW, he is now in the College Football Hall of Fame of which NT even played a part in that happening). Is SMU always going to be our albatross when it comes to advancing our football program to the next level in Denton? Of course, how do we of UNT seem to help them (at times) in their seeming to do that, too?

I'm just glad the UNT Athletic Director is not from the state of Rhode Island. In light of the Helwig/Dickey crony hire, this may be the worst possible time for Rick V to hire anyone from Misissssissipppppppiiiiiiiiii, hellsbells, even their governor or Jerry Clower (whoops! sorrry, he is no longer among us)! Seriously, any hire at this juncture of our school's football history that would be considered a crony hire (although it eventually could even turn out to be a decent hire) still might be as hard a sell in MG Country in light of the last crony hire. We are in the entertainment business to satisfy the masses, folks; we are not in the business of satisfying only 1 or 2 employed on the UNT campus who may not always be around to see the end results. At 15K per home game averages, it seems the UNT masses have yet to be appeased? Craig Helwig hired one whose bowl teams would never even smell or come close to Top 25 rankings for a hint of how hiring a crony can backfire on our school and keep us in the Bottom 25 even during "supposed" successful seasons. Also, notice that Craig Helwig was not around on the UNT payroll most the time to hear all those radio broadcasted jabs at UNT and us, ie, the NT Exes nor was he around to see...............all those black "unmarked" jerseys, either S M U**will trump us once again if they fire Bennett today or whenever; hide, watch and see! Hey, we have a 25 year tradition of screwing up our head football coaches hiring to maintain in Denton, would we want to screw that up now? As has been posted already, no way SMU is going to allow UNT to hire Todd Dodge; hell, they already know many, many, many of us want him. SMU'ers? This time around, though, will yall please bring the vaseline! PS: How many fans from South Lake Carroll (whose colors also just happen to be green and white) would Todd Dodge turn into Mean Green fans; especially if he recruited his Texas blue chip QB son next year? HE WHO HESITATES LOSES! (And at UNT, we also specialize in that, too) HIRE TODD DODGE ASAP!

I do think this time around with this hire we have more in the area of checks and balances working for us in the person of our new prez' Dr. "B." Helwig seemed to have been a "one man show or committee" when he very quickly seemed to have hired DD before Matt Simon could even pack his boxes. I still think our UNT AD will have the most leverage with all this as he should, but Rick V knows how many of the MG Nation felt about the last A.D's "buddy hire" that did not completely thrill most the way it came down and for darn sure the way it came to an end. .................................................... Silver Eagle, my #1 choice is also Todd Dodge because he brings so many positives to our most unique table up in Denton. First of all, most anyone across the entire Lone Star State who follows HS football will know who he is and that is an invaluable commodity for a school like UNT. Many will still remember him from his days as the Texas Longhorn's quarterback, too. (A main concern now is that S M U may fire Phil Bennett and be on Todd Dodge's front doorsteps before we can say "He who hesitates, uh, loses." SOME THINGS WILL JUST ALWAYS BE FOR NON-BCS SCHOOLS: There will always be those "Well, Dodge can coach at UNT 2 or 3 years then move on up to Big Time U." (Probably such comments being said by those we really recruit against annually truth be known). BUT in Todd Dodges case we might actually get more than 3 or 4 years because of this as just one possibility: In Dodges' 2'nd year at UNT (assuming he had our job, of course) one only has to think he will be able to recruit his own Texas blue chip QB son to a UNT letter of intent and (unless Dodge were an immediate astounding success) that would immediately give Todd Dodge at least 5 years at UNT. NOTE: FWIW, Hayden Fry delivered very much in only 6 years at UNT; in fact, he got a Big 10 job out of what he did in 6 years in Denton. QUESTION: Anyone want 6 years from a UNT coach who shakes and bakes in Denton and then gets hired away from us or almost a decade from one who gets fired while leaving our football program in a down cycle? Although Dickey with his radio/newspaper comments seems to think he has left behind a future national championship team in Denton most realists think he only left the same kind of talent that would only (once again) might only be competive in the Sun Belt Conference with Top 25 or Top 50 rankings only being a pipe dream. But some feel Todd Dodge could recruit the kind of Texas HS recruits who would complement some fine (but not national championship caliber talent and I use that term tongue in cheek, of course) that DD did leave behind and with Todd Dodge in charge and being able to do all that take this Mean Green football program to the next level had Dickey reached after 4 bowl games we would not be looking for a new UNT HFC today. Now is the time for UNT to re-connect Mean Green football with Texas high schools and specifically, Texas HS football coaches in the DFW Metroplex and well beyond for that matter and many of us feel Todd Dodge would do that at a much higher profile in the area of the Lone Star State we need this to take place more than any other coach I've seen on any list of a potential UNT coach to date. 'Twill be interesting to observe all this the next few weeks to say the least.

If its true (as one of you posted) that some NT assistant coach told Jamario Thomas to bulk up or muscle-up after his record-setting freshmen year then I am afraid we have discovered yet another major coaching blunder during the DD Ball era. If it ain't broke--don't fix it? The UNT running back who we all listened on the radio as he ran for over 250 yards against the Big 12 Colorado Buffalos cannot (in my mind's eye) ever be called a fluke. I think it has been a combination of a few things (including what has been the on-going down cycle of this MG football program since "Super J's" true freshmen year) along with his nagging hammy' that has caused much of this. Many of us think Jamario Thomas can become Super once again and end his UNT career in a blaze of thunder in his last year just like he did in his first year; of course, a couple of heralded JUCO lineman recruits come this December wouldn't hurt things, either.

CaribbeanGreen, if Methuselah were our coach and if he could get some high profile OOC wins (not counting Tulsa, LaTech or Akron among that group) and can get us in (here I go again) the very illusive Top 25, I'd buy the Geritol and the prune juice to keep such a coach as that truckin' right along. I think what excites me most about all this as much as anything is that our present Mean Green football players will all have a new lease on life with what most of us feel will be a brighter future for them as a team come this Spring. BTW, wonder if we will now have a Green/White Spring Football game during actual Spring months AND ON A SATURDAY WHERE THOSE WHO LIVE 1 OR MORE HOURS AWAY FROM DENTON CAN COME UP FOR A CHANGE?!?!?!? :

Some good points, Smitty... I guess the one thing many of us (including myself) always tend to forget is that whoever gets our HFC's job will most likely still need to hire assistants who would know that Houston is in south Texas near the Gulf Coast and that UNT is still in Denton, Texas (and not Denison, Texas). in other words, wouldn't hurt to have a few Texans who actually even know some Texas HS football coaches to be our new assistants AND HINT! HINT! HINT!.................for our new HFC to hire assistant coaches who have a track record of the kind of successful recruiting that will get UNT inside the Top 25 and not just SBC wins and a few bowl appearances (which hasn't yet gotten us inside the Top 25). The trend at UNT seems to be wherever our A.D. is from (or their common college alma mater is most likely the state from which our future HFC will most likely come. I don't know if that is good or bad to be honest, but I guess time will tell, but for gol' darn sure lets not take all but a decade this time around to tell us if we have a keeper and a public relations sorta' guy. Quite frankly, I'm kinda' like another NT Ex who said if we keep someone in Denton over 10 years (with our being a non BCS school and all) that they better be part of one helluva' 'got it goin' on" athletic program or.................their work has not been recognized outside Denton and are not in demand to be hired at a higher profile. RUN, FOREST, RUN! (AND MR. GUMP, YOUR MOTHER WAS RIGHT ALL THE TIME ABOUT THAT BOX OF CANDY). One thing about all this, it's any alum's choice to support or not to support who UNT picks this time from our box of chocolates. I know we all hope we get the best one, you know, the one with the caramel inside (although, I know, I'm sure some of you would still opt for the one with the cherry in the middle).

If this really happens, this is very good news for the SBC (who can use some good news after yesterday's home attendance figures across the 'Belt). Of course, the Rice/SMU game didn't exactly pack em' in down at Rice Stadium, either, now did they?

Hey Denton HS gal (and I suppose an NT Ex) who thinks we screwed up with the firing of DD: 42 Wins...62 Losses (any further questions)? To quote another fellow NT EX's question: Do we have idiots for our fellow alums?

And, yes, there were many of us who tried for the longest best we could (while we bit our lips not always enjoying his style of football or PR skills which I think helpled keep us at 15K per home game most of his years in Denton if that many); anyway, many on this board still supported DD Ball even in the midst of all his post game radio broadcasted jabs (which many of those even amazingly came during the bowl years). As I've posted before, one of our fellow alums (a casual/borderline fan--you know, the ones who most always have 15,000 seats available for them most any Game Day?); anyway, our fellow alum upon his hearing DD on one particular post-game radio show that I told him to listen to on his way back to Fort Worth. Anyway, once our group all met for a post-game meal at a FW eatery he told our group he would never come back to a Mean Green FB game until that kind of UNT employee who made that kind of money from UNT was removed from the UNT payroll. That alum simply asked me: "Why in the hell is that Dickey fella' kicking our school and our alums asses? Has he forgotten who he gets his freakin' pay checks from?" Darrell Dickey (IMHO) literally talked himself (on all those radio shows comments and selected quotes in the print media) out of his job as HFC at the University of North Texas. On the other side of the coin, I think UNT's dismissal of him may end up being a blessing in disguise for the Dickey clan as far as his long-term health is concerned because now he will have the time to re-coop, have some nice fund$ that will give him the proper time to re-cooop and just get on with his life whether that be in coaching football (at whatever level) or going into some other kind of business. There would (hopefully) be no one on this board who would have the ability to separate the man from the coach that would wish him nothing but good health and good fortune because (as they say) when you've lost much or all of your health you've just about lost everything (and whatever amount of money you have put away cannot always help in that part of all our lives, either). ".............riding high in April, shot down in May." (per "ol' blue eyes aka Frank Sinatra in the song "That's Life") Yet................many of us still gave it the good ol' college try in trying to support Dickey and even thru all those times he was poking comments and jabs at our school and at our alums most of the time he was HFC, but FWIW...........wasn't his job like most of ours out here as in: "What have you done for me lately?" NOTE: Lately is some cases can be: "What did you do for our company the last quarter!"

I would think that now that the DD Era is now officially over that there would be many on this forum (and beyond) who would say that Mean Green football recruiting just took a big step forward... ... especially now with our chance to get on some Area (who knows maybe even back on some State) Top 100 lists of which we've (for some unknown reasons ) been M.I.A. the last few years. Also talking about our getting on such lists of other large Texas citys other than just DFW, too. The Goldfield's gift of $1.5 million to UNT Athletics will allow for the creation of even more solid new stadium plans that will be more than just at the generic stage. And with the right coaching selection, UNT can probably still more than just salvage this winter's recruiting class since we still have till Feburary to make some new, solid and bright impressions with Texas HS seniors many of whom probably would have never given our present staff the time of day (in light of the obvious downward trend that they as Texas HS seniors would been most aware).

CLEAN HOUSE OF ALL THE BOTTOM DWELLING ANCILLERY STAFF-TYPE PRODUCERS, RICK V, AND THEN A NEW ERA CAN REALLY BEGIN AT UNT... ...We are still not a state of Texas assisted retirement center for under-achievers many of whom should never be employed at the NCAA D1-A level, even at a university located on the western edge of Denton, Texas, America which........ .........thru their obvious lack of D1-A talent levels and work habits have helped keep UNT toward the Bottom 20 of NCAA D1-A for way too many years. Darrell Dickey is just the tip of the ice berg of those who need to find futures elsewhere and to allow our school's own future to have a legitimate chance to rise up the NCAA D1-A ladder for a change.

I'll call you later tonight, SUMG... ...but I do think we all have recognized that the Goldfield family have the mean$ to make an entire Mean Green Nation put on a very big smile on all our faces with what he could po$$ibly do (and do for us what T. Boone Pickens did for Oklahoma State's football stadium which was all but basically rebuild theirs from what we all used to know how it previously looked).

Uh, Matt sorta' lost it toward the end and that's all I'm going to say about that. Even more the reason why this next hire is so damn important for UNT. We just cannot afford any longer to do the "business as usual" type of HFC's hire in Denton as we've done most of my adult life .................or we will find ourselves so entrenched in SBC/Bottom 20 Country we'll never get out. DD's good buddy Wright Waters formation of the SBC (football portion) all but gave him another 4 or 5 bonus years as a D1-A head football coach since most know he was hardly setting the Big West on fire with wins. Most D1-A coaches would have been gone after Year 4 with DD's W/L record. YET.................every time DD opens his mouth he further makes his future very un-attractive for any future D1 job unless his daddy pulls out another deal for him. If ever the old saying "it's not what you know but who you know" fits for any one that would be Darrell Dickey. IT'S ALMOST ALL VERY SAD: As DD still doesn't seem to fathom the cold stark fact that he (basically) talked himself out of his own job with all those numerous broadcasted radio comments on the very ones who would pay a journeyman assistant football coach about $250,000 and not expect much (like a football program on the D1-A rise)? Nor would he ever seriously be considerred an "up and coming" NCAA D1-A coach since no one seemed to ask him for an interview outside, uh, Idaho? TURN THE RADIO ON.....................but it was not only those jabs at our school on those post game DD Shows but also those many (broadcasted) comments and jabs made toward our fan base with all those (forever) US vs THEM verbal diatribes that even a pop psychologist with an 8'th grade education could have seen through very quickly. The "hatchet job" quote in today's Fort Worth Star Telegram caught many of our's attention because I really think it was DD himself who brought the hatchet out with all this; that is, he with his own hatchet drew first blood and did it even while he was winning (albeit against SBC-only competition) but for damn sure he was showing us all what kind of public relations coach we had in Denton for 9 years who would probably not help in selling football tickets and he making all those comments on the: MEAN GREEN RADIO NETWORK! Did You All Like That? (Sorry, fellers, but that continuous statement from one of our radio guys when DD actually had one of his bright moments still galls the shit out of me). FWIW, I hope DD is not the only one who starts drawing unemployment because I think there are others still in the UNT athletic dept. that no new UNT football coaching staff needs to hear all those "this is how we've always done it up here" type comments and from such Negative Ned"derry draw any semblance of impressions from. Still amazes me how so many non-UNT'ers have the role of defining our own university for us all. Does it any of you? A friend of mine was in the UNT Athletic Dept. right after Jerry Moore got the Texas Tech job (after 2 boring years screwing up Fry's talent) and pretty reliable word I got at that time was how some UNT assistant football coaches who would go to Lubbock with Moore were making calls on our nickel from the NT athletic department to recruit for the Red Raiders. So any of you who think all these types are totally undying'ly loyal to UNT no matter what, just get them another job at a higher profile outposts and just see how loyal they stay for UNT (even while still officially on our payroll).

BIG DAWG, North Texas will soon begin its recruiting season with a clean new slate (probaby with many new names on our new HFC's recruiting lists that DD would have never been able to get on his). Unlike the past couple of years, I think such names on that new list will have DFW Metroplex addresses, too, with some of those being on those "Top Area" lists as well. Wouldn't hurt to have a few Houston area addresses with some of our new recruits as well. The new recruits will undoubtedly have a pretty accurate blueprint of what our new stadium will look like to feast their eyes on, too, since the Goldfield family made that big donation create the scenario for that to happen. Now all we need to do is just hire us a new head football coach, right? And boyhowdy, do we ever need this new HFC's hire to fit UNT, Denton and the DFW Metroplex like a glove.

Of course, if its $60 million we are going spend for a new football stadium one has to assume that it would seat much more than 32,000 no matter what the plans are. In fact, just what are the plans as I guess I have missed them along the way? And if we already have plans have they been made official by or UNT BOR's? Next question is: How could they possibly be official since the Goldfields just days ago gave the monies for the creation of plans for a new football stadium on our main campus? IMO, the prime reasons you build a stadium at UNT that seats a minimum of 40,000 seats has nothing to do with the Sun Belt Conference or what we used to draw with what some called Dickey Ball OR what we've been doing in the past in general, but it does have to do with what will happen in the future such as: (1) UNT's projected "not that long in the future" enrollment by the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board is 43,000 students (They are petty accurate with their past forecasts). (2) UNT can get 1 or 2 real bonafide "money games in Denton" (what a concept that would be for a change, eh?) per year with a larger stadium of at least 40,000. Even lower echelon SWC schools of the past used to do that at times because of all the aforementioned school's visiting fans. You get to schedule those Longhorns, Aggies,Red Raiders, etc, etc, with those 2 for 1 type schedules and with their coming to Denton ever so often; and because of all that you've got some sellouts on your hands and then we have more flexibility with our annual athletic budget. (3) Denton and Denton County are a U.S boom growth area. We have to think at some point we will have an imaginative enough marketing program that will actually bring in many, many, many new faces from all that growth coupled with our "always around" casual/borderline fans who are just waiting for something called exciting pull out all the stops football and playing to win in every quarter of every future football game, not all that "playing to keep it close till the 4'th quarter" baloney.

I think its an unwritten architecture's law that says if you build using your yesterdays as your guideline that you'll eventually discover that your tomorrows will have many saying "wish we would have only built it larger." I don't think UNT officials are holding their breath or would be depending on the Texas Department of Transportion (TxDOT) for much $ with the area that it appears they will be taking from UNT adjacent to our present football stadium. As far as future conference affiliations go, who could ever begin to guess on that; but most of us older nestors and I'm sure many of you who are younger are still a bit shocked that we all lived to even see the Southwest Conference implode. I think it will always be a matter of UNT having its product "all dressed up and ready to go" if there were any future openings in a higher profile league whatever league that would be. For now, I think we will need to bloom where planted in the SBC. It was exciting to see the first step made on UNT's new stadium a few days ago with the Goldfield contribution. As they say (or something like this): The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step? If we now need $60 million, I wonder if someone (or some corporation) in the Goldfield league gave half of that amount how long it would take UNT to raise the other half? With recent changes, I think UNT AD Rick Villerreal and other UNT fundraisers will have more willing to listen than ever before. Wouldn't we all like to see the UNT Board of Regents be the ones who very publicly make this new stadium venture a most visible and well publicized endeavor? I think few would disagree that we need a new stadium and that it would always be the one meeting place that the largest numbers of NT Exes will ever always collectively show up (even over a One O'Clock Lab Band concert--sorry, UNT College of Music folks; we are all very proud of all your accomplishments, but your audience over the course of a year is quite limited compared to even just one Game Day at UNT during any Fall).

Someone with the last name Goldfield with a home that looks like its components were built in Iraq and shipped to Denton, Texas, America?!?! HOLY MOSES! Goldfield Field?

Totally agree... If we build a stadium large enough to bring in a UT, OU (don't laugh, TCU has done it even at their Amon Carter Stadium & the fact that OU still plays in Dallas every year); also, a Nebraska, Iowa (formerly Fry-Land), etc, etc, etc, then you have a chance to have some pretty large turnstile numbers, super gate receipts and some very happy Denton area businesses, vendors and hotel/motel general managers. So in other words, the eventual size of our new football stadium out at the Mean Green Village will affect many others than just those on our campus.