PlummMeanGreen

REVISED POST YES! Fouts Track & Field Stadium's future............................................ Sadly, some comments I have heard have predicted a probable additional "pie in the sky" decade for even a 30,000 seat stadium; but another question is what will the 10,000 seats we know we will have to eventully have, that is, if we are serious at all about getting out of our annual Bottom 25 co-existance cost with our initial stadium as compared to how much 10,000 seats will cost later? With the pulse of today's NCAA D1-A powers that be, if we go too small now we may be painting ourselves into a corner that could get us back to being nothing more than just a glorified 1-AA kind of football program that goes to bowl games as an unranked football program (playing unranked bowl foes) and with our really being nothing more than a glorified 1-AA level type of program or worse, even further down the food chain than that (so to speak). Question: How many 1-AA schools have been ranked higher than many 1-A schools the last few years)? If we can build a 30,000 seater, just how many more dollars are we really talking about to add 10K seats now? Of course, whether we go 30K or 40K we still need the Big Donor and hopefully one that thinks (somewhat) like Emmitt01 does yet with a true plan to start a meteoric rise to NCAA D1-A's highest level by doing the right thing now with our new football stadium. So just go ahead and build it the right way now or (really) just wait to build it the right way later if we must, but hellsbells, many of us Baby Boomers are closing in on age 60 as it is so I guess if we plan to live to be 100 we may live long enough to see happen in Denton what many of us thought would happen much, much sooner while using a beautiful Fall evening at UT's Memorial Stadium to watch an NT Mean Green football team almost beat DKR's Earl Campbell-led football team as our own personal barometer as to where we all actually thought this program would be able to go not that long after that particular Fall football campaign of 1976 . (SUBTLE HINT FOR THOSE WHO NEED IT): You really do have to hire D1 personnel to give a school a legitimate chance to be D1 in every aspect as well as across the board) and that has been our numero uno problem in Denton, Texas, America for well over 3 decades now. Hopefully, the Dodge hire will change all this forever (for those of us who don't have too many forever's left).

UNTflyer, we're only 10,000 apart on the stadium part and..............hold it now, you mean we have no money? Guess that is why we have a "pull out all the stops" fundraising team effort happening now, right? (One can only hope on the "pull out all the stops" part, of course). PS: An initial 35,000 seat stadium would exceed most expectations from this present group on campus; but hopefully, TDodge can tie us into the kind of heavy-hitters that all his past & present Texas ties may possibly produce? And also............have we given up on the Goldfields in all this stadium business already? I think buildng a smaller capacity stadium than our present one would be making the kind of statement we just don't need to be making at North Texas right now. I mean how many conferences better than the one we're in now would have to think twice about a school our size and in the mega-population center it is located doing such an ass-backward kind of thing as that? Wouldn't we all be able to hear the snickers and laughter of our fellow Texicans everywhere by doing such a thing?

REVISED ON A VERY HOT WEDNESDAY MORNING... Larger Stadium + Larger Gate Receipts ='s A Larger Annual UNT Athletic Budget Subtopic: UNT Schedules OOC Games in Larger Stadium With Schools Known For Thousands of Traveling Fans. (A Luxury We've Rarely Had Most of Our Mean Green Game Day Football History). How can this happen in light of our past which a few of our elect (seemedly) & reluctantly refuse to let go? How 'bout projecting a future which will mean about 30,000 more new fans/new faces than are registered with GoMeanGreen.com for starters? Instead of us becoming another Small Stadium U (which if you haven't noticed are a dime a dozen in the non-BCS and with too many of these Small Stadium U's giving good D1-A football coaching talent another reason to leave because they and their football staffs simply want to play before larger audiences. NOTE: That was one of the reasons Hayden Fry gave as a reason he left for the Big 10. Anyway, because of a Larger Stadium at the Mean Green Village, UNT finally starts leaving our past behind while projecting dramatic growth with expectations for having a growing fan base because of all the future growth. By doing this, we prove to all our Doubting Thomases (of which we have many across the great Southwest) that (in Mean Green Country) we really do have serious & legitimate plans to leave our Bottom 25 annual co-existance behind while becoming a perennial Top 25 football program which will create a larger athletic budget for our dear ol' alma mater. So.....................again............how does UNT do this? Well..............IMHO............we do this by scheduling 2 major OOC games each Fall in Denton with schools like UT-Austin, a la U of Central Florida-- and speaking of UT vs UCF, folks, if UCF can schedule the Horns at their new home digs who among you thinks Rick V could not do the same for us in Denton)? UT has been pretty darn "schedule friendly" with UNT for decades with that beginning during the Fry era when we had our first series of football games with the Longhorns; so for sure, there is a history there that suggests we could get them to Denton; that is, if we don't, uh, "build it" ...................... too small. Also, instead of going with the usual "non-BCS status quo" with a Smaller Stadium we elect to build a Larger Stadium in Denton which finally for the first time in our on-campus history allows UNT to get home and home schedules with Texas A&M, Texas Tech; as well as U of Houston, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma State, Iowa State and............OU and Nebraska? And why not OU? The Horned Frogs booked the Sooners in the Metroplex at their own Amon Carter Stadium a few years ago; with Larger Stadium UNT also schedules several other Big State U's with traveling fan bases because they need a game or 2 or 3 in blue chip-rich Texas). Yes, to some this could be an over-simplication of a way we could solve our present smallish athletic budget, but such the kind of simplicity of which I hope we wouldn't stumble over because we can't leave our past behind due to our continueing to project all our tomorrow's based on all our yesterdays, ie, coupled with way too many of our athletic staff from said past who could hardly be classified as NCAA Division 1-A caliber. (Where are they now might even give a hint to that theory). And what further proof? How 'bout merely checking out any UNT athletic media guide showing our progress (or lack thereof) as well as our national rankings (or lack thereof) of the last 25 years being one helluva' source for starters? GMG!

Flood control issue...

9-18-1976 UNT @ UT... Only a 4'th quarter TD run by All American Earl Campbell prevented UNT AD/HFC Hayden Fry's Mean Green from beating the Horns in our 1'st game (ever) against "The University."

Barbara Hershey Seagull (at least for a brief time with that last name) took Annette's place, then Kathleen Beller (of The Betsy swimming pool scene fame) took Barbara's place and then..........the Divine Ms. Norah J. took Beller's place and I've been on HBP medication ever since. Heck, at this stage of life for most of us Baby Boomer's we're only looking at the menu anyway.

Did any of you other Baby Boomers have a Mickey Mouse Club T-shirt, ie, the "original" MM Club, that is? I thought Annette Funiciello(sp?) was divine even when I was age 6. I know, I'll burn for that.

I realize Santa is not a Walt Disney character, but he does represent Christmas to many and hopefully Christmas in Mean Green Country has finally, finally, finally..................arrived....................... (yet at a higher D1-A profile this time, of course). PS: The article did leave out that the Todd Dodge family spent some time this year in the Oval Office as well (so I guess we can assume the reporter is a Democrat)? GMG!

Hope Coach Dodge is a bit more patient with us if we don't have a (apparently promised) grand opening of a bright, shiny and sparkling new D1-A football stadium setting on that rolling Texas prairie within the next 3-4 years. Quite frankly, it seems expectations are high on both sides of the coin and it might be our side of the coin that probably (and ultimately) has the most to deliver?

Yet...what's really different from Day One when we were told not so long ago all football operations would be moving over to our Eagle Point Campus? Fact remains.............UNT will (still) need a Big Donor whether we build a 30K, 35K or a 40,000 seat stadium. Question is who is going to give the Big Bucks to even build a 30,000 seat stadium? Only the green-tinted shadow knows I suppose. NOTE: FWIW, if we can find a Big Donor who can build us a 30K size stadium, would an additional 5,000 seats be so undo-able? Like ADLER's recent post said, "let's not be the first NCAA D1-A school that has a football stadium smaller than its enrollment. IMHO, UNT may not be pulling out all of the stops to get the right fund-raising team together to get "US" a consortium of Big Donors using our fire power influencers from decades past. If this thing is built too small because of a few egos who won't be around when we will probably really need a larger stadium; or those who may just want to get something built for the sake of getting anything built, then our lot will (once again) be cast for the next 25 years and (hopefully) it won't shadow our last 25 years of which not that much significant really happened for Mean Green football as far a being a Top 25 program (or even inside the Top 50 FWIW). NOTE: I would think UNT's higher echelon leaders are still a bit uncomfortable approving the raising and spending more monies on this new stadium than our school's fund-raisers have been able to raise in our entire 100 plus years of existance and FWIW................can you really blame them, although not a dime raised for our new football digs will not affect faculty/staff pay raises whatsoever. I still defer to the below signature and will until someone tells me Fry and/or Blakely just aren't interested. In the opinion of more than a few, they are virtually a prime untapped resource that the UNT Board of Regents, ie, most of whom are joined at the hip to UNT most likely till the day they pass on to that Mean Green haven in the sky; nevertheless, our UNT BOR's should (at least) check on this fund-raising resources (if they are serious about using those with UNT ties in this fundraising venture) and just not lightly pass by this possible dynamic resource .............that is, 2 men from our UNT past who had been DFW Metroplex fixtures for most of their adult lives and while during that time really getting to know many, many, many of DFW's rich & famous. Isn't that what successful collegiate fundraisers have in their personal arsenals anyway? Why not go to those potential Big Donors already familiar with some of our home-grown own? Couple of Decades In DFW Inter-Collegiate Work-Force Breeds Familiarity: All this building of personal relationships with some of Texas' most rich & famous when Fry was at SMU for 11 years as AD/HFC (and then with his 6 years at UNT); and with Bill Blakely you had a former coach of the old ABA Dalllas Chapparals and then later at UNT when BB used to draw larger crowds when Denton had a pop. of about 39,000 and UNT had about 17,000 enrollment. BUT..................does it really matter who gets the glory in getting this new stadium done in Denton? I for damn sure hope we are way beyond any of that possible kind of mind-set.

Right on, ADLER...I've not yet heard of any school, (mega)church, college or organization in the DFW Metroplex that has built their infra-structure based on current demand. Hopefully, UNT won't buck that trend. Casepoint: Prestonwood Church relocated their mega-church to the northern Dallas County area and built their new church plant not based on their (then) membership, but with full expectations of filling their new mega-facility and from all that I've read in the Dallas Morning News---they've done that quite sufficiently. They moved out of the actual Prestonwood area of Dallas way out to northern Dallas County in a growth area and that growth area much like Denton County's. ADLER, a 40,000 seat stadium with 20K on the east & 20K on the west sides at the MG Village (a la UT's DKR Memorial Stadium) would be quite sufficient for Mean Green football for years to come; that is, unless we have a "super-growth" scenario such as Prestonwood Church did when they moved to a boom growth area. UNT can either dream big with all this or just do our usual "business as usual" approach which (IMHO) is a prime reason we have (probably) never been seriously considered by a conference or 2 many of us would prefer. PS: I'd love some upper scale hotel chain to build a hotel in our north end zone with about 5,000 seats attached to it as well as luxury suites in the part of the hotel looking southward over the playing field. Now wouldn't that be a down-right hoot for our new football palace?

Looks like a pig, smells like a pig, oinks like a pig and acts like a pig so therefore........... ............it must be a, uh.......................SKUNK?!?! It will be nice when we can get rid of that stinker (and hopefully sooner than later). Bottom line is we really have no upward bound future in NCAA D1-A football as long as we stay in the safe confines of venerable Fouts Field, and the longer we stay in it, the longer we wait on what many still think could be a football program with as bright (or brighter) a future than Boise State University (and they didn't do too bad last bowl game they played in, now did they)? I just hope we have the right personalities on our fund-raising team doing the fund-raising at UNT, because haven't we all sorta' discovered the last few decades how some personalities can get from Point A to Point B much quicker than others?

I'd say Todd Dodge has revitalized many to the extent that Sections C & D are apparently all but sold out (at least according to Old Timer's link in another thread). Jack, during all your years of following NT football. Which one feature story or one particular game coverage from among the Dallas Morning News, the Dallas Times-Herald or the Fort Worth Star Telegram really sticks out in your mind as one for the ages, ie, one you'll never forget? And who was your favorite Mean Green sports beat writer among those 3 DFW papers as well? And..........congrats on your's and Jessica's upcoming Golden Wedding Anniversary.

Happy 76'th, Jack, and warmest regards to your lovely wife, Jessica! Jack, I'm going to guess that you, too, (to coin Bill Blakely's famous quote) have seen everything at UNT except childbirth, but mostly that of a positive variety. Jack, you & Jessica were one of the first alums I met once I (myself) became an NT Ex, post-May, 1976, and I've appreciated all that time we could count each other as friends. Keep on keeping on, Jack, and we'll all celebrate the Grand Opening of that new football palace over at the Mean Green Village (no matter how many seats)! And once again (with a little color and size): .......HAPPY BIRTHDAY, GRAYEAGLEONE ! ! ! .......

If UNT ever got 75% of its enrollment to any football game in Denton that would all but be an unbeatable NCAA D1-A student attendance record that even Top 10 schools could not ever pull off. This thread title should really be the main theme as to what we really plan to do with our new stadium as in.............."Taking It To A New Level?" It we build about the same size we have now, I don't think many would see that as "taking it to a new level." Again, our stadium capacity will obviously be based on the funds raised for this new stadium, but if we shoot for the moon with all this fundraising, maybe we can hit the barn with that being a stadium around the 35-40,000 seat range. I mean, who prefers a Chevy over a Jaguar or a 30,000 seat stadium over one that seats 40,000? If you've been around UNT for long, you would be among the first to understand that waiting on an expansion of whatever we end up building might have us waiting as long for that project as we have to replace Fouts Field in the first place. After all, look how long it took us to catch up to rest of the NCAA D1 gang to improve the Super Pit. We do sometimes move at a snail's (but most certain) pace in Denton at times--agree? If we can distance ourselves from all the non-BCS schools that have these 30K-33K seat stadiums, it just might well open up some things for UNT in the future (re-alignment for starters?) such as has happened with TCU (BTW..............a perennial doormat or 2'nd division school during most of the SWC's last 25-40 years of operation); yet TCU (without a doubt) has now begun to have things open up for them with their 40,000 plus sized football stadium. I still defer to the fact that they could schedule OU to come to the Metroplex (and Amon Carter Stadium) when few of us would have ever thought OU would come back to the Metroplex for any game outside their TX/OU game during the State Fair of Texas. And no, TCU does not fill their stadium every Game Day when they play some low profile OOC opponents or even some MWC conference games, either AND.......................TCU has hardly spent millions the last 2-3 years with their football facility improvements entirely based on their own student support because (quite frankly) there have been times when UNT has had as many (or even exceeded) of our own students at Fouts Field on Game Day than TCU's entire enrollment.

Heck, EagleMBA, I've had sentences as long as your, uh, "Plumm-esqe" post! I do like your HSO's on a 40K stadium for our main campus. I mentioned 17,500 for both east and west sideline seating areas (+ 5K for one endzone) for our new stadium w/o there being a need for a double deck. Aren't there similar or larger stadiums (40K) in NCAA D1-A; that is w/o any double decks? Surely there would be. I would think most on GMG.com would know that any suspension building for a new stadium, that is, double deckers seating, are where the costs for a new stadium really esculates. If you get all 40K w/o suspension decks, then you do get the better priced stadium. NOTE: NM Green points out that 33-35,000 might only get a Texas Tech into Denton and I fully agree with him; thus the main reason 40K would help us get more upper profile Big 12 schools into Denton; you know, like TCU did when they hosted OU at Amon Carter Stadium a few years ago at their 47,000 seat ACS? How many ever thought OU would ever come to the Metroplex for a football game except for the TX/OU game at Fair Park? Hmmm? How many seats at TCU's football stadium made that possible with OU? Was it one with seating in the 40's?

I've dated a couple of women who make Kirstie Allie look like Olive Oil, right, Green Means Go! ? Awe............stadium talk! I love it! Even like it over any branding threads! A 40K seat stadium might help UNT be in on future upper profile conference re-alignment talks and might even help us get in a league like the Mountain West Conference; while a 30,000 seater will pretty well keep us land-locked where we've been of late and do any of you really & sincerely want any more of that kind of co-existance? Remember, the difference of 10,000 seats (30K compared to 40K) with most Big Donors would be merely nickels and dimes with such high-rollers. If UNT doesn't ask them for 40,000 seats and tell them how important that would be for us 10 years down the road, anyone think potential Big Donors will suggest that we need 40K just off the top of their heads ? A 30,000 seater will not allow us to make headway among the other 9 Texas D1-A schools, either. Like I read somewhere UNT is just going to always have to go the extra mile to make any semblance of impressions in own home state of Texas. (IMHO, of coure). ..................................................... 40,000 seat stadium without a double deck? Well..............how about 17,500 on the west side, 17,500 on the east side and then 5,000 seats in the north end zone (with room to build an end zone facility that would even include more luxury suites along with those 5,000 seats). How about a hotel someone posted about 1 or 2 years back being the backdrop of those 5,000 seats (with special hotel accomodations,ie, super luxury suites) looking out on the field toward our Athletic Center Complex (which would be on the opposite end)? One could get very creative with all the possibilities if one wanted to (but why not let the Hiltons, the Wyndams, the Westin, etc, etc, etc, form a special partnership with UNT especiallly with their getting what they want and UNT (for certain) getting what they want? If not a hotel in the north endzone seating area, how about another dormitory with some special blue-prints that would allow 5,000 seats adjacent to that dormitory? With such a special dormitory, what a great pre-game gathering spot for a few thousand UNT students at that end zone dorm's spacious "court-yard?" Talk about a great place for UNT students to tail-gate! Then...........when the time comes, get the Green Brigade to lead all of them thru a special tunnel that will lead them into those 5,000 seats.

33,500 would be a good start albeit 40K would be a dream come true for many I've spoken to. At UNT, we just have to start believing that we will soon have programs put in place that will help us to start getting 30-35,000 Mean Green fans out of 6 million Metroplex citizens--I repeat...............6,000,000.................DFW area citizens with almost 600,000 of them now in Denton County. I'm not sure why some of our elect just keep hanging onto our past as a barometer to measure their expectations for all our future turnstile counts on Game Day in Denton. I was in Denton today on a little business and spoke to an older man whose family just moved to Denton from Ohio. I told him how much Denton had grown since I lived here and he said he & his family were going to jump on the Dodge Ball Band Wagon; had already bought their Family Tickets. He also asked me about a good Texas HS to follow as far as his family's Friday Nights were concerned. (He knew all about & respected Coach Fry when I told him who "my" HFC was when I was an NT student). These are the kind of new fans/new faces that will fill our future stadium. Wouldn't These Be Nice Numbers From All These Groups For UNT Attendance: City of Denton Citizens MG fan support (110,000 pop.).........................................10,000 Denton County MG fans support (outside Denton City Limits) (590,000 pop.)..........15,000 UNT Students fan support (34,000 enrollment).......................................................8,000 UNT Statewide NT Exes support (110,000 alums)..................................................10,000 Total......................................................43,000 (So thinking ahead, would 40K attendance be so unattainable from all the aforementioned constituencies within the next 5 years)? NOTE: I did not include any visiting fans at all, either. ........................................................... OFF SUBJECT: What in the wide world of sports is Kirstie Alley still on all those Jenny Craig commercials with Vallerie Bertinelli? She still looks like the Goodyear blimp for heaven's sake! Also............Anyone else ever wonder why in most movies when someone bust somebody's snozzola that the line most always said by most any actor in most any movie is:: "You broke my nose!" NOTE: Might there need to be a special Oscar for the screen-writer who can come up with a different line which would still have similar meaning?

Lets not be too hasty, fellas... What our West O' Plex StartleGram wants us all to do is color inside the lines of the unis' they put in the newspaper today. I finished coloring mine 15 minutes ago and................... I STAYED INSIDE THE LINES FOR THE 1'ST TIME IN MY WHOLE LIFE, GOL' DARN IT! Honest to goodness, though, these are the best looking unis (IMHO) since the ones we had during most of the 1970's when "you know who" was around. I really do love the overall look of these new Mean Green uniforms. If we're not careful we could start winnning some NCAA D1-A awards for "Best Looking" unis' (and that's no bull, either). DODGE BALL IS HERE &..........THE GOOD OL' DAYS ARE NOW!

REVISED, EDITED AND (most) MISSPELLED WORDS CORRECTED ON THIS EARLY SUNDAY MORNING... If anyone would have told many of us back in the day, ie, specifically post-mid 1970's in an another era, that is, one who could look ahead to the future about such things as this current conference re-alignment speculation that UNT would not be part of these discussions in some way or another, I (and many who post on this forum) would have said they were smoking some wacky tobacky. If anyone had told many of us post-mid 1970's era of area college football that TCU would be part of this kind of high profile conference re-alignment discussions, circa 2007, many of us who read the Metroplex sports pages of the mid-1970's would have said they were on far worse stuff than wacky tobacky. Conference re-alignment speculation such as this latest would be more fun if UNT were actually part of it, but we are not. Will a new small seat capacity stadium built in this millenium help UNT be part of any such conference re-alignment speculation in the future? We know what our track record has been thus far on that subject. Yet the 1'st question in this paragraph might be a question a few our upper echelon UNT leaders may want to ask themselves in the next few months as plans unfurl for a new stadium at the Mean Green Village. You see, one problem we've had at North Texas that most NT Exes have no control (whatsoever) is we've had some of our leaders from the past who with their decisions set the direction of UNT athletics for years (sometimes decades) to come who may not have given one flippin' iota about our alma mater or its future the first 5 minutes they were off the UNT payroll & onto their next challenge. We all have hope that from top to bottom of our present UNT leadership that that would not be case. There are reasons we have all cussed & discussed as to why UNT has hovered in and around 15K per home games thru most of this decade and even the ones prior it and many of our past UNT's leader's decisions concerning our alma mater's athletic direction have played a major part in this. Poor hirings, those who didn't have to do much at UNT to stay on payroll and total misfits for our unique situation in Denton have played large parts to all this as well. We all have hope above all hopes that our UNT leaders today will not just build us anything that affects whether or not we'll truly be a player in NCAA D1-A, but rather that our present leaders go outside the box that most all their predeccessor at UNT avoided or chose not to do and build us something that gives us a future above the rest of the non-BCS pack and build such a shining buckle of a stadium on that rolling Texas prairie at our Eagle Point Campus aka the Mean Green Village that will open up wide all the eyes of Texas. A not so subtle hint to present UNT leadership might be sized up with yet another theory (and we know they've heard many of those from GoMeanGreen.com which could really be called a pretty fair microcosm among the UNT community as to how NT Exes feel about their school & that would be): No one who lives in a major league sports market such as the North Texas Metroplex wants to be associated with anything of which the perception is small time, ie, minor league; and concerning perception, how many times have we all been made aware that how in many areas of life that perception is reality?

Good point, SE-66, concerning the Stangs...AND...............I wonder if UNT had a 40,000 seat stadium if we could get some of those same teams SMU seems to have no problem scheduling at their land-locked/no parking Ford Stadium and instead, many of those schools come to our new palace in the Mean Green Village. I realize it ultimately will be all about what our fundraisers can raise as to what size our new stadium will be, but UNT powers really need to ponder upon the idea that at UNT we may really need to go that extra mile with our seating capacity to gain some semblance of advantage (especially over all the ex SWC schools not in the Big 12, namely CUSA schools)? Am I in left field with all this, uh, too, or does any"one" agree? If not, maybe I, too, need to downsize my expectations for this football program and its potential in light of the 6 million DFW citizens who live within 1 hour (give/take) of our main campus and the Mean Green Village.

And another reason we should all be guarded with our expectation in T'odge's 1's season in Denton. And FWIW.........if we were to win the SBC and go bowling this season (which would be a tall order in light of the last 2 seasons), an even taller order would be that we do it (at least) as a Top 40 (hey, I'm a baby boomer & descendent of Top 40 song surveys); anyway, if we go bowling this Fall, that we do so as a school ranked inside the Top 40. The WAC and MAC have been sending Top 25 teams to bowl games and the SBC should very, very soon start doing the same (IMHO, of course). GMG!

The new unis' are simply..................MAVAWOUS! (Billy Crystal). (A repeat post that was on the cenorsored thread).