PlummMeanGreen

Yet every school you list at least has had a Top 25 ranking within the last 5 or so years (except may for Tulsa who may not have). No SBC schools has ever been ranked in the Top 25 as a SBC school. I won't bore yall with the Fry Era since you know it already. I am merely saying the SBC with its one bowl and who it plays for its bowl opponent (a 4'th place CUSA'er) is hardly going to give us the kind of annual stage that allows us to do what most of the above schools you mentioned in your post, TTG, have done within the past 5 or so years and that is....get a Top 25 ranking. Tell me (and others) how the SBC is showing present trends of getting a top 25 ranked school anytime soon--like in the next 5-10 years? Do you all want another 30 years of roller-coaster rides like most of us older nestors have had to endure the last previous 30? Well, UNT might very well be the school that can deliver on that since we have (after all) had a great propensity in the past of watching way too many schools we were at one time on the same level pass us by like a ship in the night--our AD's alma mater being just one of that group. Why did they pass us by? Most made bold, sensible moves to better conferences, that's why. Cincinatti who we once beat in a bowl this decade was in a Top 25 poll with 3 losses just last week. Did they get that kind of respect in CUSA? No, they didn't and that because they have a new bloc of voters who will insure the Bearcats a brighter future at the upper level of NCAA D1-A. Others Who Passed UNT By While We Slept or Fiddle-Farted Our Athletic Program Down the Crapper Can we say most of the former Missouri Valley Conference schools UNT used to be in bed with as part of that group that passed us by? All that group of former Mo Valley schools were all (seemedly) willing to make bold moves for their athletic program while UNT stayed land-locked with the same old problems--rehashed over and over and over again? BTW...........can we also add to our growing list of schools who went "Beep! Beep! North Texas" football program like South Florida, UCF (and God help us all) possibly in the future FAU and (gulp) FIU to that growing list of schools because that is just what new upstart Florida schools while schools in Texas that have been open for business since 1890 still swim in a lake of molasses? All these schools who passed UNT by in another era while we kept trying to find our identitiy after 100 plus years of existance; while we concern ourselves with so many damn trivial things such as our need to get the perfect brandings from our chancellor's office of which we can predict changes for those when a new administrative regime takes over once again in Denton; while with every coaching change try to come up with yet another perfect shade of official green for our school; while we argue the merits of what we should have as our school's best inter-locked NT letter combos; and lest we forget.....while we get another annual polishing of what one former AD used to call our t_rd, ie, our venerable and unsinkable Fouts Field? Is all this what some of you might even want for another 30 years because we won't take bold steps that can upgrade our athletic program? Well--never say never, because we seem to repeat some of our worst of the worst when it comes to too many aspects of our athletic history in Denton. All this really could very well continue to happen at UNT unless we start hiring more visionaries, ie, true Big Time Thinkers (of which I see our AD, one Mr. Rick V as such) who really do think Mean Green football can be better than what some are so readily and willing to accept for the present no matter how it may cost us in the future? And no, Todd Dodge's 1'st season is still not a fair barometer because for damn sure DD's 1'st 4 seasons were not for him, right? That's it...over and out.

Someone/anyone in the UNT Athletic Dept. needs to get a calendar out that covers the next 10 years and put the following below letter on each of the next 10 years worth of Saturdays after Thanksgiving as a time not to schedule anything; that is, while our UNT students have emptied their dorms and are with their families while on their Thanksgiving breaks. X

Would you rather be in a league who has 2 teams in the Top 25 or a league whose champion is having a problem getting beyond 2 votes? Why do we do to ourselves at North Texas what we do to ourselves at North Texas? Anybody got a jar of K-Y? I don't know how the SBC is going to suddenly over-night get all this newfound respect that some posters see on our horizon. ULM beat a non-ranked Crimson Tide--no points for doing that. Troy U beat a #17 ranked Missouri the night they opened up their stadium and I don't recall them getting many votes for doing that? So where is our bloc of voters for Top 25 ever going to come from? I say it will come from the West and not the Big 12/SEC/CUSA inundated South/Southwest. When UNT won a bowl game against (now Big East school Cincy') how close did we get to Top 25 then, that is, even after a bowl win? Answer: We didn't even register a blip on on near the Top 25 radar screen would be the answer. IMO....the SBC is 8-10 years away from getting any bloc of sportswriters to vote for a SBC champion; and that champion of a throw-together league of schools who had nowhere else to go. (Anyone don't think that that description of our league does not have an effect on those sportswriters who would bother to give us the time of day, least of all a Top 25 vote? I don't know how long we of North Texas need to keep ourselves barefoot, pregnant and in the SBC kitchen when there may still be an offer waiting for us on the Western Athletic Conference table. I would agree with GrayEagle One and also say if would be nice to bring 2 other SBC schools with us to form that WAC East along with La Tech, though. Again.....just my .02

Great research and some valid points, stebo...Actually, I was saying last year that the WAC should never be an option for UNT until I started looking at the lay of the NCAA D1-A land (and certain regional blocs of Top 25 voters and how they seem to vote in their region. I think La Tech minor sports teams take a week (pre-planned with all their teachers) and hit 2 or 3 WAC schools in one week in the same western area which saves Bulldog minor varsity sports much in travel costs. In fact, I think La Tech's men & women minor sports varsity teams do this together if I recall reading the La Tech board in the past. So its not like its an individual plane trip to the west for one volleyball game and then back to Ruston. La Tech seems to not be having the financial problems we all predicted they would because of smart WAC travel plans for their minor men & women varsity sports. With the SBC lost in the shadows of the Big 12, the Southereastern Conference and even CUSA, where will our bloc of voters ever come? I think the WAC has shown us they already get their votes for Top 25 consideration inasmuch as this bowl season, the WAC will probably have its 2'nd BCS Bowl Championship Series appearance and if some don't think that won't help La Tech continue to outrecruit UNT (which it seems they did during DD's entire 9 years in Denton) maybe we can talk about some ocean front property I'll sell real cheap here in Parker County, Texas? But my main contention is that success against our 8 SBC opponents in the future will do no more for us than get us to a bowl game as an un-ranked football program playing CUSA's 4'th place team every year. I have to ask this question: How many times will CUSA send to the Big Easy a Top 25 ranked 4'th place team? I also have to ask this question: How many such (un-ranked by both teams) bowl appearances in a row in the Big Easy till our fan base starts to say, "Oh, another bowl game against an almost 2'nd division CUSA football program." whoopee! ? ? ? ? ? ? These are really the kind of things I feel our UNT leaders need to really look beyond the present and attempt to anticipate what can affect our fan base's interests level for what our Mean Green fan base may not feel is an upward bound (Top 25?) football program in our future if we merely keep doing the same things (and in an un-ranked sort of way). FWIW..........we have actually already done this before, now haven't we? That is, we've done all this before with a 4 year run of bowl games durng the DD Ball Era with not one of those 4 teams never, ever being even close to a Top 25 ranking. I just cannot buy that Boise State has so many more resources than UNT to allow their (almost decade long) success. They had to have some help--and that is where that western bloc of Top 25 rankings sports writer/voters came in handy for the Broncos; in fact, that bloc of voters came in quite handy for BSU I think we'd all agree.

Studies have show that inbred families in that section of the Deep South either produce geniuses or complete socially outcast ritards. It was quite obvious which of the aforementioned 2 groups that Western Kaintuck' brought to Fouts Field last Saturday. Hellsbells, even Abe Lincoln knew it would be a smart move and in his best interest to get the hell out of Kentucky (his birthplace) and move to Illinois. PS: I think all the other geniuses showed their pedigree and moved over to any native (and probably adopted) Texan's favorite states who (of any other state in the Union) brought the most Volunteers to the Lone Star State in our quest for independence against General Antonio de la Santa Anna, ie, the self-proclaimed Napoleon of the West. Wonder who the next gol' darned spare the Sun Belt will add when CUSA grabs one of our 'Belt schools for the eastern footprint part of their league? (Sorry, but no Texas school would be considered for their eastern footprint, folks). do-WAC-a-do-WAC-a-do... (and pretty darn soon is not soon enough)! And on a most serious note: You mean the WKU coach said that to our Coach at Our Place--on Texas soil? "Hell hath no fury than a Texan scorned, Kentuckians, & don't you for damn sure forget it." (comprende)?

Be careful, Al, you'll be put in the "heretic club" by such thoughts. Keep preaching to our growing choir, though.

Ramblin' Roads... NT Athletic Hall of Famer, NFL #1 draft choice (I think?) and multi-year NFL Pro Bowler Cedric Hardman first came to Denton at around 5' 10" less than 200 (as I recall this wild story) and then Hardman would grow to be 6'4" 240 lbs while on our campus and become a Mean Green legend and if not for the great Mean Joe Greene may (today) have been considered our signature past legend If it were in our coaches plans for Jeremy Phillips to bulk up to 240 lbs (give or take--mostly give), you then (with a 4.6 forty) have yourself a pretty quick & fast defensive end at the NCAA D1-A level and one who just happens to be living over at.....the Mean Green Athletic Village. The single most thing that is impressing me with these conference championship games of this last week is just simply all the team speed. Hawaii and Boise State (of the WAC) would be toward the top of that speed list, too. How the hell did we let Troy U get so damn fast on us, folks? Never mind, I think we've been there the last 2 years on GMG.com quite frankly. WAC'ster U of Hawaii is now ranked #12 and has been predicted now to be in one of the BCS Championship Series Bowl Games, which would be the WAC's 2'nd year in a row to have one of their teams in that elite company. All this while the SBC champion (with 2 poll votes) plays a, uh, "4'th" place/unranked CUSA football team who had to beat SMU 2 days ago to become bowl elgible. I know, I'll get off this WAC kick when I see we merely do what I suppose former teacher's colleges in Texas do, ie, do the "we po' but proud" routine, "we don't deserve better, after all we're North Texas AND..........just hang in there with the status quo, but one has to ask the question: WW"HF"D? That is if he were still in Denton or on some committee making suggestions on the possibility of upgrading our conference home? I think many of us know that Coach Fry would not take a year or 2 or 3 or 4 to make his decision on this kind of thing. (Not mean't as a slap to Rick V at all, because I believe our AD wants UNT to advance and go forward/upward "conference-wise" just as his alma mater (Southern Miss) was doing that as we of North Texas were in the midst of enjoying our mult-decades long roller coaster ride. (Please don't ask any of us older nestors how many schools we used to be at the same level would go "Beep! Beep!" past us the last 4 decades because it would only discourage you about this aspect of our dear alma mater). IF.........we haven't blown our opportunity to go westward ho the WAC, we should be tripping all over ourselves even maybe even doing a little grovelling if we have to with WAC Commish' Karl Benson to bring us and a couple of other SBC schools with get this done. NOTE: There does not seem to be any move for the MWC to have another football member school, specifically the Boise State Broncos, as some of us thought might happen and certainly the MWC would have not extra space for Hawaii, either. OK all you Young Gun NT Alums, I know I'm off subject here, but I'm getting old enough to use "older" age as my excuse in doing such ramblings! GMG! Beat FIU & Make My Prediction of "3" Wins The Day We Hired Todd Dodge Become Reality! (On the other side of that coin, I believe we should add more years to TDodge's present contract and raise his "buy out" fee for those who will court him in the future).

The CD has a very good "Eagle'ish" sound and if you read the credits closely (inside the CD packaging) you would also notice that part of it was recorded in: Denton, Texas, America, at some studios called Panhandle House (or something to that effect). SUMG told me he thought those studios were in Downtown Denton, that is, on or near the Courthouse Square area. Read a magazine article featuring UNT alum Don Henley a few years ago who when he said he makes frequent trip to Denton because he still likes to visit some of his UNT professor; also, because he "just loves the bohemian, ecletic atmosphere of the UNT campus." NOTE: The Eagles performed at the Country Music Associatoin awards show on TV last week and brought the house down. They probably received the most enthusiastic SRO applause of the whole evening.

I believe CUSA is contracted with the NO's Bowl officials (SBC) to annually send their 4'th place team. Memphis barely squeezed by a school that fired their coach about 2 weeks ago. I agree, Green Lantern, I wish the NO's Bowl officials could do better than a 4'th place CUSA team, but I guess "one baby step after one baby step" for any new conference of which the SBC is one of the most recent that fits that criteria. Wonder if there are still other options for North Texas rather than a bowl game with an annual 4'th place opponent in the future? Doesn't sound like a bowl game that will ever have a ranked opponent if we're talking a 4'th place CUSA team every year, does it? NOTE: My head is still spinnning after watching all the speed from both teams during the WAC Championship Game the other night PLUS.............the crowd of over 50,000 watching that game between UHawaii/Boise State was something else I'd bet many Mean Greeners who watched this game had to be impressed with, too.

One of the best unofficial (but almost official) bits of information we've had on GMG.com in quite awhile, Rick.

There are really some late season scheduling no-no's at UNT (& there always has been) and today we didn't pay attention to one of those no-no's. (I'm sure there would be valid reasons of why we had to play today). YET.........we had 2 open dates this season (& that for a reason I'm sure, too) but if we could have merely played the WKU game on one of those 2 open dates (& hell, yeah, get Western Kaintuck' to work it out in "THEIR" schedule since they are the new "brash" kids on the SBC block). And once again, "WHY" do we have a hardy half a handful (if that) on this forum who still persist to judge the need (or lack thereof) of our future new stadium based on one freakin' Game Day the Saturday after Thanksgiving? .............................................................. A NIGHT TO REMEMBER: Must have been an NT Ex (probably from this very forum) who while on the Titanic when the very first life boat was lowered and it unfortunately sank) and was overheard saying: "There you go--told ya' so, the gol' darned lifeboat sank so why don't we just all jump ship and sink the rest of this damn ship?" The Far Side Moral of This Titanic Story Never Published Until Now? Why would any Game Day the Saturday after Thanksgiving (with a very predictable smallish crowd) determine if we should or should not build a new football stadium that will meet the needs of: (1) the level of NCAA we compete, (2) our school's continued dramatic growth, (3) the MG football team & our UNT students who deserve the best of facilties to play in and sit in, (4) the burgeoning Denton/Denton County population and most important (of course) (5) to meet the "derrier' and visual" needs of all of us who post on GMG.com? Not Only Build it! Dome It! & Pleeeezzzz! No More Saturday Game Days After Thanksgiving (if preventable)!

Thanks to all of you and thanks to our Mean Green for making it even more special. PS: Like your signature, Phil...

Not bad for a future Mean Green WR or DB, eh? Isn't Heisman candidate and former Todd Dodge product Chase Daniels and Riley Dodge about the same height, ie 6'0"? Hmmm? I say Riley Dodge gets a very strong look at QB when he arrives for Spring Football this Spring. I also say (like many of you) he will redshirt his first year and then battle G. Vizza during Vizza's Junior year at UNT for the QB position. Don't know about yall, but it does make me feel good we will have 2 QB's with the caliber of Vizza and Dodge over at the Mean Green Village and that because of a little thing called, uh.....injury? Now lets start recruiting some linemen (on both sides of the ball) for our future. Former ASU Head Football Coach and Dallas Cowboy employee Larry Lacewell said its hard for schools which are at the level of the SBC to recruit blue chip linemen, but lets see if we can start being the exception at North Texas. In fact, lets see if we can start being the exception of many things unseen in Denton for 2 or 3 decades, right? GMG! PS: So some of you did like that WAC championship game with over 50,000 fans in attendance, eh?

First & last Turkey Day UT/TAMU game I attended was Gene Stallings last game as Aggie coach, circa 197_?_. Darrell Royal and his Texas Longhorns kicked the Aggies all over the place on that rainy day. Then it was back on Highway 6 back to Alvin and then Danbury-home sweet home.

TAMU probably gave Coach Fran the choice to resign or get fired--just a guess. 'Twould be a good hire for SMU if this happens.

Bump... ADDENDUM: ESPN 2 WAC Championship Game #15 Hawaii versus #19 Boise State 50,000 fans in Aloha Stadium? What A Spectacle! Hmmm?

It's still not always about what you do in one season. I don't know why this one losing season (we've had others) has become such a benchmark. We will have winning seasons in the future--we always do. Some say these things come in cycles and since 1973 that is what I've observed with Mean Green football. SMU had a 2 decade losing streak plus a Death Penalty working for them when they received a CUSA invite (no matter who they coat-tailed into that league with), so if its about winning the "losing" Ponies came out smelling like a rose while 4 bowl games in a row didn't seem to improve our conference offers. It will be about what you bring to the table with TV market, potential (since that is all SMU brought to the CUSA table) longterm upside (which I will say UNT will have over SMU till the cows come home and that even while they have their Ford & we wait for our consortium of donors to be formed which will ultimately get our stadium jump-started). Should we have closed our doors and expected long-term doom for Mean Green football after the 1972 season when Rod Rust's last team won one game? Of course not...good times are ahead as things go in college football in Denton, Texas, America.

Any Louisiana Tech Bulldogs reading any of this? If so---what is your take on all this? PS: Sounds like Vince Dooley's son is building you all a fine football program.

OK...........my posts during his last 2 years about Coach Dickey mostly concerned radio barbs and what was my humble opinion of his need to upgrade our football program across the board even as we were going to bowl games, but......... ..........my deepest gut feeling concerning Darrell Dickey is that he is not a thief and I wonder if it might be a good idea for this thread to disappear from this forum and let the Fort Worth Star-Telegram do all the explaining of why they chose to write about this over 1 full year since Darrell Dickey left Denton.

Jack, I think that good friend might have actually said, "bloom where planted" but I'm sure he would say you were more than close enough. FWIW..........I do listen to our elder UNT statesmen on this board, ie, you, Huff (who finally convinced me Band Days could not happen in this era and he did convince me), ArlingtonMeanGreen, Old Timer, MeanGreen61, etc, etc, etc, and I value each of your knowledge and experience from each of your respective eras. AND............you may have hit the proverbial nail on the head with your posts on UNT and the WAC. And I also agree with you that CUSA may not be any closer to Top 25 than the SBC of today, but somehow/someway we need to find a way to get in that group because I know anyone on this board would agree that if Boise State can do what they've done with their annual Top 25 rankings the last 6 or 7 years, that it should be attainable and do-able for North Texas. Peace to all...

First of all, I did not put "blah, blah, blah" in my posts as it may seem. Second of all, most any thread discussion on GMG.com is ((IMO) tantamount to the kind of discussions we all might very get involved with at a sports bar, so I rarely take anything posted on this board (including my own long-winded epistles) anymore serious than I would with a sports bar jury of the opinionated of which once we finish at given watering hole, most of us would shake hands and part friends, especially if we had the common thread of being NT Exes and/or Mean Green fans. Yes, I did mention that Cincy' was now part of the Big East ie, one of the 6 BCS (as we used to call it) conferences but there is a point to be made even with that, CMJ, and it is that they now have a bloc of voters that are going to take care of them poll-wise (so to speak) when they have a quality football product and that is what I have been saying about what the WAC seems to have, ie, a bloc of voters who are not shy to vote WAC members (with quality football programs) into a Top 25 poll. As a concerned alum and Mean Green fan for a higher profile athletic future (which everyone on this board would most certainly also meet such a criteria) if we could only get the crystal ball out and know that this fledgling league of ours had a realistic chance to have voters to put our best team in the Top 25, this thread on the WAC would never have existed. Unfortunately for all of us Sun Belters, past trends of even SBC schools getting a few poll votes (even keeping in mind our 4 bowl teams) tells me the SBC will have problems developing such a bloc of voters (which is what it will take) to get any of our schools in the Top 25 anytime soon (5-10 years?) and seeing that the first time we stumble against a high profile school, we don't get voted out of a Top 25 poll. I know, lots of "what if's with all this, but we need to always be trying to improve our athletic neighborhood and I most certainly believe our AD, one Mr. Rick Villarreal is also a mega-progressive type and visionary (a la Hayden Fry) and wants to do the same for this athletic program. I love the SBC! It served a purpose when we needed it, it still serves a purpose as it gives us a conference home, but all I am saying is: If we have a chance to better ourselves and move up the conference food chain, should UNT officials consider such? The WAC as shown interest in us and CUSA (IMO) made a token visit to our campus with no known majority votes to get us in if our name had come up for a vote. Politics tells some of us old fart alums that nothing has

My point is that the best the SBC has to offer in its 7'th year of operation is still hardly even on the "poll votes" radar of those who vote in these Top 25 polls. BTW, Cincy' has 3 losses and they are still (strangely enough) in a Top 25 poll or 2--go figure since Cincy' is hardly a past known football powerhouse. Hell, we even beat them in a bowl game (and we all gave DD his due praise with that win way back before his attitude about his employer and its alums went south). There is so much truth to the "if you don't learn from your history you are likely to repeat it." Do we really want to repeat our history of the last 30 years, folks, that includes no Top 25 rankings and one of the most bumpy roller coaster rides any NCAA D1 school has ever had? Even a UNT athletic novice could peruse our last 30 years of UNT athletic history and understand we have really been bumbling around much of that time and you merely need football and basketball media guides to use as your references. Those media guides tell our North Texas athletic story in plain'o black & white for those who want to be serious about where we've been and where we are going. YET........ if you are happy with the last 30 or so years with our roller coaster ride, then maybe a few of you are just happy with our school merely fielding varsity teams no matter how they do, least of all having a concern of whether they ever get national rankings. Maybe even a hardy handful of you were more than just hunky-dory happy with what DD Ball produced in his 9 year under .500 career that included non-stop radio barbs at his employer and its alums. Yet, it was our school that did have a history of being in NCAA Division 1 longer than any of the other SBC schools (even with our 12 year sabbotical in 1-AA) and our own past number of years as a D1 program which should have made it a scenario whereas we were shooting SBC fish in the barrell its first 4 years of football operations. All this allowing us to go to 4 bowl games as unranked teams to play CUSA's "4th" best un-ranked" team; nevertheless, if all that made of few of you happy little Mean Green campers, then why waste your time and keyboarding skills on this thread if the first place? But if you do, state a few valid reasons as to why you feel the SBC is our nirvana of a conference co-existance, and please point out to those of us who will listen (with not attempts to make a joke) of such valid reasons showing past trends that indicate the SBC will soon have a Top 25 ranked school (and I did say school--singular). Another Top 25 School We Should Look At: Focus on the U of Cincinnati in these polls. The Bearcats have "3" losses, too. Yet the Bearcats changed conferences. For sure they are now in one of the Big 6 BCS conferences, but why is this traditional "non-football" power now (suddenly) a school that can maintain a Top 25 ranking with 3 losses? One possibility is they moved to a new conference which (w/o a doubt) has a voting bloc of eastern sportswriters who will insure that "their" Big East is well represented in the Top 25 polls--anyone notice South Florida is also still in a Top 25 poll? But I think most who want to stay serious about this thread subject know Cincy' did not seem to have such support in the former league they called home, right? And when did the Cincy' Bearcats just suddenly overnight become a football power that could command votes to stay in any Top 25 poll with, uh.............................."3" losses? The SBC came around at a good time for UNT; hell, we had no other place to go. The CUSA schools were not exactly knocking our doors down back then and one SMU president over-looked UNT last expansion time and suggested WAC'ster La Tech. Folks, the politics will forever keep us out of CUSA or even a New Southwest Conference since its the same schools who look down their noses on us--and did even after a 4 year run of bowl games for the Mean Green. Those of you who would like to see UNT continue with the SBC, instead of the "anti'WAC" posts, give us some "pro-SBC" posts and simply point out some viable reasons we should stick around? Even as you may even have to admit trends among poll voters that suggests we have one helluva' tough row to hoe if we stick around a league that still has not one Top 25 ranked team legacy another 10 or so years (give or take). I will say from PM's and emails I've received, I am hardly alone or on an island unto myself with this WAC idea. We actually have many NT alums/Mean Green fans who think Top 25 ranking potential would happen moreso in the WAC than what they see the Sun Belt ever giving us a similar potential. QUESTION: If we were still in the SBC and CUSA raided us for 1 or 2 eastern CUSA footprint schools and the SBC had to replace those 1 or 2 were with App. State and/or Georgia Southern; are you content that we hung in there with the SBC when we had an opportunity to get in a conference that has had a school in the Top 25 now for 6 or 7 years running? And yes, the WAC has 2 schools in the Top 25 at this time. The SBC had a school with 2 votes in recent weeks. Does a possible watered down SBC really stir you loins as to inspire you to want to fund an academic chair at our alma mater's main campus?

I know we can go back & forth with all this (which we are doing) but in the below listed latest polls all that stands out to me is the WAC has 2 of its schools in the Top 25. One of the polls shows only 1 SBC school with just votes, that is, 2 votes--a long ways from any semblance of a Top 25 ranking. "It's a matter of voltage" (from the movie Crimson Tide) and CMJ, I believe the WAC would give North Texas the necessary kind of conference voltage (if you will) to rev up our football engines as to do the kinds of things nationally that if we stayed another few years in the Sun Belt we will never do; that is, we would only have further disappointment as far as having a nationally recognized football program which I think many of us on this board still think is do-able. If we have it in our power to change our present course in NCAA D1-A football, I think we should look very hard at the present changing climate, trends, future conference alignments (that do not include North Texas) and do so. PS: Is very interesting to see other football programs once at our level (or even below UNT's) who (obviously) made the right & bold decisions to take charge of their football futures and as a result some of these schools have now catapulted into the Top 25 stratisphere of NCAA D1-A--& not just getting a few votes, either. How about we start with the University of South Florida (who BTW is in the Top 25 with 3 losses). 2007 NCAA Football Rankings - Week 12 (Nov. 18) Season: 2002 | 2003 | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 Week: Preseason | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 Other Polls Index USA Today Associated Press Harris Poll Master Coaches Poll BCS standings ESPN.com Power 16 ESPN.com Bottom 10 ESPNU Allstate Standings Add Widget BCS Standings 1. LSU 10-1 2. Kansas 11-0 3. West Virginia 9-1 4. Missouri 10-1 5. Ohio State 11-1 6. Arizona State 9-1 7. Georgia 9-2 8. Virginia Tech 9-2 9. Oregon 8-2 10. Oklahoma 9-2 11. USC 8-2 12. Florida 8-3 13. Texas 9-2 14. Boston College 9-2 15. Hawaii 10-0 16. Virginia 9-2 17. Illinois 9-3 18. Tennessee 8-3 19. Boise State 10-1 20. Connecticut 9-2 21. Wisconsin 9-3 22. Clemson 8-3 23. South Florida 8-3 24. Cincinnati 8-3 25. BYU 8-2 Complete Standings AP Top 25 1. LSU (60) 10-1 1,619 2. Kansas (3) 11-0 1,541 3. Missouri (1) 10-1 1,469 4. West Virginia (1) 9-1 1,457 5. Ohio State 11-1 1,341 6. Georgia 9-2 1,246 7. Arizona State 9-1 1,219 8. Virginia Tech 9-2 1,131 9. Oregon 8-2 1,057 10. Oklahoma 9-2 1,031 11. USC 8-2 967 12. Florida 8-3 874 13. Texas 9-2 863 14. Hawaii 10-0 795 15. Boston College 9-2 678 16. Virginia 9-2 614 17. Boise State 10-1 597 18. Illinois 9-3 548 19. Tennessee 8-3 512 20. Connecticut 9-2 327 21. Clemson 8-3 294 22. Wisconsin 9-3 274 23. Brigham Young 8-2 158 24. Cincinnati 8-3 149 25. Auburn 7-4 100 Others Receiving Votes Texas Tech 89, South Florida 73, Kentucky 38, Michigan 19, Arkansas 9, Air Force 7, California 6, Florida State 6, Oregon State 5, Penn State 4, Utah 4, UCF 2, Tulsa 1, Northern Iowa 1. Dropped From Rankings Kentucky 22, Michigan 23. Complete Rankings USA Today Poll 1. LSU (51) 10-1 1,483 2. Kansas (8) 11-0 1,441 3. West Virginia (1) 9-1 1,345 4. Missouri 10-1 1,328 5. Ohio State 11-1 1,276 6. Arizona State 9-1 1,158 7. Georgia 9-2 1,105 8. Virginia Tech 9-2 1,019 9. Oklahoma 9-2 931 10. Oregon 8-2 890 11. Texas 9-2 883 12. USC 8-2 879 13. Hawaii 10-0 828 14. Florida 8-3 736 15. Virginia 9-2 626 16. Boston College 9-2 619 17. Boise State 10-1 593 18. Illinois 9-3 485 19. Tennessee 8-3 430 20. Wisconsin 9-3 343 21. Connecticut 9-2 264 22. Clemson 8-3 225 23. Brigham Young 8-2 161 24. Texas Tech 8-4 80 25. Auburn 7-4 65 Others Receiving Votes Cincinnati 63, Air Force 51, Michigan 38, Kentucky 36, South Florida 32, Arkansas 25, Penn State 22, Florida State 12, UCF 11, Rutgers 7, TROY 2, Michigan State 2, Oklahoma State 2, Oregon State 1, Fresno State 1, Houston 1, Indiana 1. Dropped From Rankings Penn State 22, Michigan 23, Cincinnati 25. Complete Rankings ESPNU Allstate Standings (Fan poll) 1. LSU 10-1 2. Kansas 11-0 3. Missouri 10-1 4. West Virginia 9-1 5. Ohio State 11-1 6. Georgia 9-2 7. Arizona State 9-1 8. Virginia Tech 9-2 9. Oklahoma 9-2 10. Oregon 8-2 11. USC 8-2 12. Florida 8-3 13. Hawaii 10-0 14. Texas 9-2 15. Boston College 9-2 16. Illinois 9-3 17. Boise State 10-1 18. Virginia 9-2 19. Tennessee 8-3 20. Connecticut 9-2 21. Wisconsin 9-3 22. Clemson 8-3 23. Auburn 7-4 24. Cincinnati 8-3 25. Brigham Young 8-2 Others Receiving Votes Texas Tech, South Florida, Kentucky, Arkansas, Michigan.

But its who Troy U lost to that should not make them lose 2 freakin' votes for Top 25 consideration. They played the Georgia Bulldogs in a close game and then lost their few poll votes. Does that bode well for future SBC football champions or................do we just all love going bowling as a non-ranked Bottom 25 football program to get schooled by a non-ranked CUSA opponent? That seems to be the best our future has to offer in the SBC and someone please show a significant trend (not just an occasional win over non-ranked former Top 25 schools, either) that suggests that we will break out of this cycle anytime in the next decade? How tall a mountain should Mean Green athletics force itself to climb if their is an easier way to do all this is my main question? Last year, I thought the WAC idea was a terrible idea, but events and studying which region's non BCS schools seem to have no problem getting Top 25 rankings have changed everything for this one alum. IMO, if the SBC ever gets a Top 25 ranked school, it will want to move on to greener pastures pronto. Why does UNT need to stick around with our traditional business as usual approach to lower echelon athletics, do nothing, build nothing and maybe even suffer the shame (once again) of watching yet another conference implode in front of our very faces while some young NT alums (who don't seem to know their now defunct SWC/CUSA history of anti-voting for UNT politics as a few keep coming up with pipe dreams of our being associated with those same Texas-based schools who have never wanted in each of their respective athletic histories to be assocated with University of North Texas? Hayden Fry told a gathering at a fish fry within the last 6 mos. that UNT should get out of the Sun Belt, and I'd think more would be more prone to listen to what this progressive-thinking (and most perceptive) College Football Hall of Famer would have to say on the subject. So yes, we probably all need to listen to Coach Fry once again or...........we can take the low road and go thru another 30 plus years of whatever you want to call it since he left town for the Big 10. Whoever wants all that again for 3 more decades do raise their hands? We do seem to have a choice with the WAC (which we will never have with CUSA) or a New SWC which will black-ball UNT like the old SWC (now mostly CUSA) would do again. Jeez, do NT alums like to play the role of Job or whoever with its athletic program, specifically football? Well.....? PS: Someone tell me why UNT should continue membership in a league our fellow conference-mates would leave in a New York Minute if they had other choices or invites? Someone also tell me why La Tech has never wanted to leave the WAC for the Sun Belt for even one minute? Do they know something we just don't? FWIW, La Tech has been out-recruiting UNT in DFW and Texas the last few years looking at their results on the playing field including their drubbing of our Mean Green team last time we played the Bulldogs. So please..........I'm all ears with this WAC versus SBC discussion (which is all it is since our officials have made no WAC overtures...(and I'm also a bit bored as I look out the window and watch it snow on this Thanksgiving Day, circa 2007.

But its who Troy U lost to that should not make them lose 2 freakin' votes for Top 25 consideration. They played Georgia close and then lost votes. Comprende?