PlummMeanGreen

No need for an apology, TTG. I take most all my re-butts in stride. What is it that they say: If you dish it out, you better by golly be able to take some of it dished back to you, too? Yet, I actually sorta' liked non-Young Gun Alums in that post, but now even prefer Old Gun Alums even moreso. But my favorite post of yours today was your apparent newly found fetish with what I guess I may have played a small part in starting on GMG.com a few years ago? Peace... GMG!

My dial up has been acting up lately, so I guess I hit something too many times as it was shutting down? Still.. .......football?

Read, read, read.... I said, uh, football.

Emmitt, all I know is if we only had more of your enthusiasm I have observed from you and many of your buds from the era yall attended UNT added with those from my era (who are still kicking, that is); anyway, if we had even a small percentage from those 2 UNT eras that span a lot of years we would have 30K plus crowds at Fouts every Game Day and the Super Pit would be SRO and rockin' no matter who we played--known or not so known teams. It would also be many of my group's hopes & desires that UNT will do all the right things & make all the right decisions that will make all of from your era very proud of UNT another 30 years from now, too. A sincere salute to you and your fellow Mean Green fan buddies!

I know it wasn't "fully" about your post, but I am just amazed with all your pro-activity that I've never, ever seen from you on any subject on GMG.com, that's all! Seriously, I will say that with our new growth on and near campus, maybe concerning those small crowds from the past that we might just need to de-emphasize all the things we did to make them small and do what Todd Dodge wants to do in Denton and that's: To get everyone to quite merely talking about North Texas' potential? You're a great alum and fan, CMJ. We need more of you, too. PS: And I got called a "non-Young Gun Alum, today, too, which is true! LOL! Shall I tell this forum how I remember when your own dad ran track at North Texas or not?

I supported that "Dickey monster" for 7 years until we had the worst home loss in UNT history versus Tulsa, circa 2005, and then my own bright light bulb finally turned on. Some were at my throat for not coming around even sooner. I think we all know what we've done in our glorious SLC past (12 years worth of that 1-AA purgatory), then the Big West and now the SBC, but one thing that we seem to always leave out of these discussions is how we have had record-settting UNT freshmen classes for about the last 6 or 7 years running. Denton County also grew population-wise larger than the city of New Orleans was pre-Katrina. Where I come from that is called significant growth, ie, new blood, new faces and God help us all in Denton & Mean Green Country....................new fans? Why not give them a major league product here in our major league sports market worth supporting? Lets simply allow all our post-Fry small time thinking past (and all of its low profile results) to merely run its course (like a bowel movement, perhaps?) and then lets get back on course with where we once had this program headed. Like GrayEagleOne posted (and I liberally parapharse, "Sometimes UNT has stayed the course too long and to our own disadvantage when other opportunities were out there." This not intended for you CMJ, but I'm not sure why some want to hold onto to a past that really did not have that good of results, at least on a national NCAA stage or one that had Top 25 rankings. Then some on GMG.com want to (forever) re-cycle coaches from a losing low profile athletic past to come back to Denton and to do what? Keep us Bottom 25--what nostalgic moments that would be. I swear to the heaven's above there are just some things about a core of UNT alum's small time thinking mindsets I guess I will never fully understand. I think some would actually choose a used Chevy over a new XJS Jaguar and then wonder why (or poke fun at our group on this forum) who actually want the Jag!

You think if some of these MWC folks knew that UNT has twice the combined enrollments of SMU and TCU living on or near our campus might change a few minds if all this, uh, "commuter school" tommyrot is such a big stumblingblock? Might they want to also know that UNT has the largest residential campus this side of UT-Austin? Probably wouldn't really be of interest to them, now would it. They probably just want to keep on believing that 80% of our students commute! LOL! Yet it sounds to me like some Texas-based ex SWC school(s) have been spreading more false propoganda about UNT (once again). What the hell, though, ain't we sorta' used to all that by now anyhow? I would not want any MWC official to visit our campus until our new football palace is completed out at the Mean Green Village and that new football palace coupled with the (amazingly still ageless Super Pit) would catch a few MWC offial's eyes fairly quickly I'd wager. The only thing is that I don't think the MWC is really going to be serious about expanding anytime soon, but some of us also said the Southwest Conference would never break up, either, with all this conference talk which is really much more fun than what shade of green we need to use or how should we combine "N T" on a baseball cap or UNT brandings, in general.

A truer post of wisdom from one of our wisest Older Gun Alums has yet to be posted... I will add (since yall would expect me to anyhow) that a new football stadium out at our Mean Green Village (IMHO) would be more sell-able as a WAC, MWC or CUSA member than the one we're in (which has not inspired anyone at this point to shell out the Big Bucks). Bless Wright Water's heart, because he has really done so darn much to get the SBC football portion started and a bowl game to boot in what is considered one of of America's mystique cities, but down the road if as GrayEagleOne has posted concerning the un-stableness of our league and "IF" any of what he posted about some SBC members not cutting the mustard just happens to come to fruition, the only schools we could get to come in and take their place are just more spares that UNT (believe me) does not (and should not) want an association, ie, whether name wise and what Dr. Gretchen B. will have to look at--academic-wise as well. Sorry to all you Western Kentuckians, but North Texas does have a much more impressive NCAA D1 and D1-A football legacy than your upstart outfit could only dream of having at this stage of your game and that starts back with our integrating the Lone Star State in the mid 1950's with the great Abner Haynes, Leon King, etc, etc, and FWIW...they didn't have too bad of teams, either, since one of their teams went to the Sun Bowl. (And once again, a hearty congrats to many of our's friend Abner Haynes for being elected into the Texas Sports Hall of Fame--truth be known, he should have been in its inaugural class. I agree, Jack, UNT should NOT make a shoot from the hip decision on any league we might consider and (of course) I never posted that we should, but we should always keep an open mind and not stay the course of something that may not be in our best interest in the next few years. GMG! .................................................................] PS: I do think La Tech has somehow made the WAC work even with its much lower than UNT budget and (perhaps) sending their minor sports men & women's teams out for a one week trip out west (maybe 2 or 3 times each semester) to take in 3 different WAC schools each of those weeks for athletic matchups has probably helped the Bulldogs tremendously budget-wise. After all, where there's a "will"-- there is a way. I do wish Dwayne of Minden of La Tech's message board Bulldogs, Barks & Bytes would visit GMG.com and give us his La Tech in the WAC take at the moment because he was not for it in the beginning for the Bulldogs--but I'd bet he's changed his mind with the present lay of the NCAA D1-A landscape like I predict many on this board would most likely eventually change their minds if UNT (in deed) went WAC'ward.

Jeez, TTG, how many UNT-oriented individuals and conference re-alignment theories can you back-hand slap in one post?!?!? Also, with your own (obvious) feelings about this subject that really seems to have gotten in a few bloodstreams on this board, yet aren't you sorta' suggesting on the other side of the coin that you know whats best for UNT as well? I don't think I've said it's the WAC or bust on any of these threads. I've just said lets look at the idea (more or less). I happen to know that no poster on GMG.com is going to set policy over at our dear alma mater's administration building, but I do know that there are campus officials who read this board (more often than some of them would admit) because they really have a desire to know what the UNT masses (of which GMG.com could be considereed a pretty good microcosm of UNT opinion) are thinking about what they are doing over there. Seems Bill Gates used to regularly visit his company's "grunt message board" from one article I read so I think we know how somebody as high up as Gates felt it important to know how the "little people" thought about what was happening at MicroSoft since it was the "little people" who helped him become one of the wealthiest men in the world. quote from TTG: Y'know... this 3000 word multicolor/font/size posting stuff is kind of fun. Maybe I was wrong, and dick jokes aren't my true calling on GMG.com! And I am really proud of your newfound usage of multi-color font/size posting stuff! I feel I had a little influence with that, eh? I don't know how Fry's quote (which he made at the Fish Fry) when he said "UNT needs to get out of the Sun Belt" could ever be called a general statement? What the heck is your idea of specific? I know you weren't around during the Fry era, but from all you know of the College Football Hall of Famer, do you really think Coach Fry would choose the SBC over the WAC looking at the NCAA D1-A landscape and how it is today? :huh: Rick V probably has the toughest damn D1-A AD job in the entire country (and I told him so). Look at where his employer (UNT) has taken its athletic program for decades while a host of other schools who used to dominate past Mean Green football schedules (some of which we were even in leagues with) left us behind long, long ago as we choked on their "soon to be" high profile dust and while we kept doing our best to keep this thing small time in Denton, keep it at the level of how a former teacher's college athletic program should be run even in this new milleneum and while we mostly just keep Mean Green athletics barefoot, pregnant (so to speak) and land-locked over in West Denton while on budgets that would barely keep it on life support. Rick V "HAS" done much to change many things for the better at dear ol' alma mater albeit he had to contend with one of the most anal retentive UNT BOR Chairman of the Board in our history, that is, one who for way too long was also trying to be our defacto Athletic Director (while he continued to take the lead in make decisions that IMHO kept and put North Texas in its present place). Hell, he even veto's a firing that Rick V made that many on this board fully supported Rick V for doing (if you all will recall that glaring fact). I had long time UNT alums telling me another year of DD Ball even back then and they were through with this program. I continued to relunctantly support DD until I just couldn't do so any longer post Tulsa-loss in 2005). If you can't tell by now, I am a Rick V fan because of what he has tried to do at a school that has (non-stop) religously made decisions that would make us be the school who saw many of our past "football schedule-mates" leave us behind like we had some biblical disease or something. UNT has a history of being damn good at making bad decisions in hiring and no decisions concerning an upwardly bound future. I can't think of any other school that has been in NCAA D1 longer than UNT that can beat us in that department to be honest. Can you--can anybody? Speculatory with this, too, but there could be anywhere from 1 to 3 present SBC schools (not Texas-based UNT, folks--sorry) who may one day need to meet CUSA's eastern footprint in case they lose Memphis, East Caroline or whoever; but that is just speculation. But why not UNT take the position of being one step ahead when the next conference re-shuffle takes place (and it will) rather than our being 1 or 2 or 3 steps behind and not ready to wear the glass slipper for a change? Oh, I know--I forgot: "We po' but proud in MG Country." (Curses to the one who make that a too long-standing M.O. in Denton)! If we continue sit idly by and stay happy with the SBC, we will soon find ourselves among other tradtional football powerhouse name schools like Western Kentucky (and if we get real lucky as a league) maybe even Georiga Southern has a Sun Belt future, too. All the while, the WAC could have the La Tech Bulldogs knocking on a BCS Championship Series Bowl Games heaven's door. How would such a scenario as that play among some of they Young Gun & Old Gun Alum nestors of the UNT commmunity, folks?

OK, now I know...although DD Ball was the rage for most of our Big West final years and we know how his first 4 years in Denton were all well under .500 and not all tha exciting on offense to boot in those early Big West years for DD. Other fellow alums and I would get so frustrated with so many good opening season crowds with many new faces at Fouts of which many would leave at half time saying how bored they were--and wouldn't come back, either. I don't think they did since 15K per game averages even during bowl years was the norm for us. I also think you & I would agree that Dodge Ball has a better chance of bringing in more fans (except for any Saturday Game Day after any Thanksgiving of any year). I will also add that UNT, Denton and Denton County have grown substantially in population since the early and last days of the Big West. I really do think that is reason for some of the gain we are now seeing in overall attendace (and even for that great crowd at the NT/OSU game in the Super Pit 2 weeks ago). I have a novice's theory that one day Denton County will get so large in population than any home game that draws under 20-25K at our football stadium will only disappoint our Mean Green Nation. Those days can't come soon enough for all of us I believe we'd also agree. But thanks for all your reasons...I now know! LOL!

Methodist Tom Landry was a frequent guest speaker at Baptist Billy's crusade meeetings. My late parents were financial supporters of Billy Graham (above & beyond their usual local church tithe, of course). Are we having fun with all this yet, Jeff? LOL! GMG!

I'm so embarrassed... Anyone else remember when UNT Coach Hayden Fry turned down an SWC HFC's job offer because he said: "I have a better job in Denton." (?) Lets get back to those days once again when we have a UNT HFC who says he has a better job in Denton than any of the Texas-based CUSA school's locales, eh?

Your are our Grand Prize winner, NT80! I would take a guess that it was the late, great Tom Landry who paved the way for the Texas Stadium Billy Graham Crusade. Also, Texas oil tycoon Sid Richardson (among other high rolling Texans) was a big Graham financial supporter, too. Billy Graham had a brother-in-law who was the senior pastor at Highland Park Presbyterian Church as I recall.

Yeah, but look who we had as our head football coach during most those annual "well under .500" Big West years, too. YAWN...... OK, CMJ, I have to ask you the question: You are as fervent with your anti-WAC sentiments as I am pro-WAC. What is your main reason for that? I know your a basketball guy so do you see a tougher basketball league in the WAC or something? I have no idea how to compare the WAC vs the SBC since I am more a football guy. But a league with 4 bowl teams this bowl season, (probably) 2 BCS Championship Bowl Series teams in a row and you say in another thread: "Well, you can't expect the WAC to do this every year?" I mean come on now, like the SBC ever will any year? But why the passion for all your anti-WAC-ness? Just curious and not asking you in a smart-arsed sort of way, either.

Hopefully, any Saturday after Thanksgiving games will go the way of the dinosaur in Denton. Hellsbells! Why do we do these kinds of things to ourselves at North Texas? We had a very nice chance (if not for a Saturday after T-Day game) to have probably one of our 3 best seasons for attendance per games at Fouts Field but instead of doing that, well........ Still, for a (after Saturday) "3" win team, hasn't been as bad as we've seen in the past at the turnstiles and I think we have gained some new fans who will never be able to say that Mean Green football is hardly boring (and will be repeat customers this next Fall). GMG! BEAT FIU ! ! !

Have I missed something here? Like there even being an opening for a HFC at Arkansas for starters? GMG! BEAT FIU ! ! !

Harry and/or Old Timer: Do we have any transfers on campus now who will be elgible Fall 2008? Also, a couple of key JUCO transfer/recruits meshed into the defense could improve things considerably. FWIW, with our offense and when we start stopping some folks, we upgrade quite fast in Mean Green Country. I believe this journey will be fun because I think each year we will see improvement that raises our football program to new heights. GMG! BEAT FIU!

I just think we'll all be happiest when we "open" a new stadium over at the Mean Green Village; you know, on that prime interstate real estate with our new stadium placed nicely between the 2 Texas interstates? Trivia Question: What was really the first official event scheduled in the new Texas Stadium? GMG! BEAT FIU (1,500 Miles Away)!

Fair enough, Emmitt.. I will shamelessly post a paragraph from an above post of mine that really sizes up most of my frustrations of what I fear our hanging in there with the SBC may ultimately do to us and this is what I really don't want to happen to all you guys, ie, our next generation of NT alums and Mean Green fans. Here is that paragraph: You who have not been around to experience the passing parade of schools who have passed UNT by the last 4 decades while we stay the same (or less) can post all your theories till the cows come home, but you have not lived the frustration of having witnessed all this as UNT students and UNT alums as many of us have. Trust me, if this is what some of you get the next 30 years in Mean Green Country, then you may just kick your own ass for having made UNT athletics some kind of religion or something, because I for damn sure have been kicking my own for doing such of late. 0K, I really feel the reason we had so many schools who passed us by in past decades and allow me to list a few starting with UNT's former Missouri Valley Conference-mates some of whom had already left or...........had plans to leave the Valley before Fry took us out: We can start with Louisville, Houston, Memphis, Cincinatti; and then we can add Southern Miss, Florida State (believe that or not), Boise State, South Florida, Central Florida and are we going to be adding Troy U soon enough? But the one thing that we seemed to be doing at UNT while all the above schools were shaking and baking and moving up the NCAA food chain I feel can best be described by the one word: NOTHING... It we stand still in today's NCAA, then that most likely means we are losing ground in today's NCAA. Promise to all: This is my last post on this thread subject. Peace To All... GMG!

And speaking of Riley Dodge, aren't he and Chase Daniels the same height? And where have I read that RDodge has more upside at the same level of Texas HS 5-A level of competition than Chase Daniels did at the same stage of development? And no, I didn't read that in Todd Dodge's daily diary, either.

There have been many generalizations made by many, but no one wants to seem to want to step out and say: The SBC (unranked and not likely to be any time soon) is where we need to hang our hats for the next decade or so--Top 25 or no Top 25. I think some have started their own thread within a thread to be honest, because all I've tried to stick to is what the thread title pretty well says: you know, "WAC has had 2 in top 25, one BCS Championship Bowl Game winner and now has 2 in the Top 25 (or pretty close to that). I didn't realize we had so many who didn't want to see our school improve itself. For you who think Bottom 25 is the wave of our future, you probably will also get your wishes while UNT stays put "SBC-Style" and we watch another host of schools pass us right by. You who have not been around to experience the passing parade of schools who have passed UNT by the last 4 decades while we stay the same (or less) can post all your theories till the cows come home, but you have not lived the frustration of having witnessed all this as UNT students and UNT alums as many of us have. Trust me, if this is what some of you get the next 30 years in Mean Green Country, then you may just kick your own ass for having made UNT athletics some kind of religion or something, because I for damn sure have been kicking my own for doing such of late. BUT........FWIW............I still think Todd Dodge is the kind of coach, disciplinarian and human being who can get the Mean Green back to the Glory Days--or at least what many of us call the Glory Days (which included Top 20 rankings and wins over schools who would have been bowl teams had their been as many back in the 1970's). PS: Sorry, guys, I'm not going to get in on WAC talk turned Playboy Channel.

OK, I guess I then need to ask those of you who are undying loyalist to Wright Waters and the SBC (of course, the SBC or its level of competition is the only athletic co-existance some of you have known; in fact, may ever know at this rate of acceptance of Bottom 25 football and who wants to say that is not what we've had for the last 9-10 years and even beyond)? BUT..........someone please tell me why the SBC is such a wonderful home for UNT? And stebo, especially you since you seem to have been promoting Troy U all the time (and they have been worth promoting albeit they have passed us by for the moment). Of course, you said you weren't reading this thread anymore as you were making your last post, too, so I guess you won't see this, either. :blink: And BTW, lets not use the SBC versus CUSA comparison because they haven't been frequent (and long-staying) Top 25'ers themselves in recent years. Rather, lets use the SBC toward non-BCS leagues who have had Top 25 teams the last 7 to 8 years, and you can start with the WAC. If someone can give me some ample reasons why the SBC is such an up & comer league that will get Top 25 ranked teams in the next 10 years compared to those who have been in existence and have Top 25 teams to already showcase, thenI will be all ears and listen attentively. Bet others on this board might want to hear from other anti-WAC'kers since it seems the same ones mostly responding to WAC talk and............I'll gladly pass the torch to whoever wants a future in the WAC and there have been those the last year on this forum. (Where the hell are you now)? LOL! ADDENDUM: TTG, we most definitley played those CUSA teams no matter how they finished out their CUSA seasons, but I think the NO's Bowl is actually has a contract that says the NO's Bowl will have the "4'th place" CUSA team for the SBC champion. We have lucked out (if you want to call it that since we sorta' got schooled last time we played in a bowl versus Southern Miss); but we have lucked out inasmuch as we have not had to go as far down as the "4'th place CUSA team as of yet. Also, if CUSA's champion is not ranked, I suppose we could agree that their 2'nd and 3'rd place teams would also fit the same criteria as their champion, right; that is, being unranked? (I'm stumbling over the simplicity of it all here).

Hellsbells, Courtland, TTG's post are too damn long to read! I guess I really am a simpleton about all this (and please do forgive, but many of us "still" most always listen to Hayden Fry when he throws out a few pearls or gold nuggets of suggestions when it concerns even the UNT of today; after all, this College Football Hall of Famer's track record is still one to admire and who knows, maybe still even listen to)? But................. if said school (mainly us) that has been playing NCAA D1 football longer than all the Sun Belt schools keeps competing in all this non-ranked lower profile competition, isn't it likely like that we of UNT are going to most always keep ourselves at this level? Was Boise State's move from the (now defunct) Big West to the WAC a positive or a negative move for their program? Even many WKU'ers thought the MAC would be a better football conference for them as I read their forum the last 2 years. The SBC just seems to still have the reputation of being the Last Stop Gas Station before we hit the desert. OK, if Troy U wins its bowl game against the 4'th place (?) CUSA Memphis Tigers, do any of you seriously really expect the Trojans to go from getting just a few mere poll votes from said voters then zoom all the way to a Top 25 ranking? If this were to actually (amazingly) occur, my apologies to all for forcing each of you to read this WAC thread with my Mean Green squirt gun pointed at your heads (and if this were to occurr, then WAC talk is over forever for this alum and its back to bloom where planted once again). Folks (again) I am merely looking at trends at the polls in each region, and I just don't sense very good, upwardly mobile or positive trends for the Sun Belt Conference and the region its located any time soon. Oh, maybe in another 10 or so years it will happen for the Belt, but what else could UNT be doing in those 10 long years that would improve our own athletic product much quicker? Can we just hope or dream that UNT could start escalating its own athletic endeavors as most all the upstart Florida schools seem to do or is that too much to ask for?

Hayden Fry has already told UNT what it should do: Get out of the Sun Belt Conference. And Emmitt, I really don't expect you and your merry little band of buds to fully understand the fact that there are many on this board who (still) wouldn't trade anything we've seen the last 30 years for those short few years of the Fry Era. I know, you can't go back to the past, but we can ask for more than what we've been getting, can't we? Who said "Ask & You Shall Receive?" Was that Shakespearian? Of course, not...Most of us from the Bible Belt know exactly where that came from. (OK, it's now time for some to get tense with that statement). Emmitt, you're a baskeball guy, right? Well, is merely winning an SBC basketball championship every so often only to get our heads handed to us in the 1'st Round of the Big Dance always going to do it for you? Uh..............well? I would guess that you would probably say............no. But if UNT fans are not asking for more, than maybe we just won't get more? If UNT fans are not asking for a better leagues in this time of even more league-shufflings to come (and some of you have been talking up CUSA much, much more than I have this WAC business); yet all the CUSA talk alone tells many (who dare listen) that many from the Mean Green Nation are hardly content with SBC membership. Yet did playing Western Kentucky the other night make any of you beat your chest and say: Man, I'm so glad we are in the Sun Belt Conference with such schools? Hell, we had their coach (on our Texas turf) telling Coach Dodge to get "OUR" team off the freakin' football field. Does that rowl any of you up like it did me? FWIW....... that WKU coach deseved a good ol' fashioned Texas kick in the a$$ truth be known (and sometimes frontier justice still serves a definite purpose yet at the proper time). Whoops! Now I'm saying such things to an officer of the law! Hellbells! I could now very well get my hands slapped (or worse) for what I post on GMG.com! Emmitt, you are a fellow alum, a keeper of the law (which I really do most seriously respect & even worry about you doing that kind of thing truth be known; as I have the same concern for FFR and the Houston FF NT alum); yet, I know we will all one day have reason for common celebration but... ...it is most obvoius that many of us disagree with the WAC as a solution, eh? What I want is not a selfish thing here, folks, its only what I think will make us all prouder of our school because of what it would give our alma mater moreso the potential to reach higher up on a national NCAA D1-A stage than I really ever think the SBC will ever allow us to do--that's all. I do love you all because you're all fellow Mean Greeners. Don't always agree now do we, but still the same--it's still all about all Glory to the Green so...... Here's A Mean Green Hug To All! Enjoy It While I'm In The Holiday Spirit! LOL! PMG