PlummMeanGreen

The scoreboard is hard to read in the black and white photo of former Mean Green Coach Hayden Fry being hoisted on his North Texas football player's shoulders following probably still the greatest win in North Texas football history. Had the Mean Joe Greene North Texas team in 1968 beat Frank Broyle's national championship contending Razorbacks (as was said to have actually been the case other than one of the worst homer calls in history) that game would have been our greatest all time win since a few weeks later the Hogs would host in Fayettville Darrell Royal's Texas Longhorn's for the NCAA National Championship game in what back then was called "the Game of the Century." Amazing how close North Texas came to beating one of the Top 2 ranked schools of that season. Back To Knoxville & the Mean Green: The Southeast Conference University of Tennessee Volunteers had a 6 & 5 record the year our Mean Green beat them in Knoxville on their homecoming with a late 90(?) plus yard kick-off return for a touchdown by North Texas' Sears Woods. Remember This On That Day, Too? ABC TV college football broadcaster Keith Jackson on the game he was covering the day we played the Vols kept going back to "that Hayden Fry's scrappy Mean Green team" score several times as I recall and then announced to the entire NCAA college football world that the mighty Mean Green had pulled off the upset. Of course, had there been as many bowls back during the year of our huge upset win, the Vols would have been (at 6 & 5) a much coveted bowl team especially with their history of traveling fans; of course with more bowls back then North Texas would have had its first bowl since the 1959 Sun Bowl game during NT's Abner Hayne's era. Tennessee with their 6 & 5 record the year we beat them were hardly considered a chopped liver of a team by any means. Question: To you at that game or who listened to Bill Mercer call that game, do you have any ancedotes to add to that Big Day in North Texas athletic's history? Or even some tidbits about our near upset of #1 ranked Arkansas the day we had that one stolen from us from one SWC ref? Another Question: And, uh (clear throat)...where was TCU during all this time during our Mean Joe Greene & Hayden Fry eras at UNT? Answer: Strangely & amazingly enough, they were not to be seen on the UNT Mean Green football schedule for either of those 2 decades, that's where they, uh, weren't. GMG!

If we had been building our new stadium because we had had a Marshall U-type of program that won year after year at the 1-AA level (which we never did regularly enough at the 1-AA level when we (many would admit) thought we were something quite special after we dropped from the Fry Era to that lower level and then we played poor or below average SWC schools close & even won a few making us feel even more special--although it was the Marshall's and Boise's who were building something much, much grander than we during those years we just keep hanging in there with Fouts Field as our decrepid home)..................yet had we had to build our upcoming new football stadium because of our having had an annual "lights out" winning progam instead of........replacing one of the worse stadiums in the FBS...then maybe we would have gotten consideration from those we wanted to be looked upon favorably and then you add this... ...we are just in a bad geographical area for CUSA consideration because just like the old SWC who first developed the attitude of "we just don't need another school from Texas." 1 (mabye 2) CUSA schools alums just take it to the limit with us by using outdated excuses about UNT (commuter school, teacher's college, etc). Still at present doesn't make us a bad gamble for any conference, but is just where we are now with this. Lady Luck, Where Are Ya'? We just need a break of any kind such as something unexpected that happens in one of the leagues we are interested or as an... Early 2011 Christmas Wish List: We need MWC Craig Thompson Commish' to develop a huge hunch that the University of North Texas and the TV market it is located is just the way for his league to go, especially when they want to impress the all-important TV sports network gurus who put league TV packages together. We are a great location for the MWC, but at present we are not for CUSA albeit that league would be many on this forum's first choice because of the very thing that is kicking our butt.....the CUSA geography.

The weird part as far as the timing of this thread on Lamar is today in Willow Park (Parker County) I saw what looked like an official "Lamar Cardinal Football" automobile. The entire car was painted with their school colors and logo and appeared to be a Lamar U employee behind the wheel. Question: Are they now U of Lamar or still Lamar University?

Mr. Benson, if you covet Denton so much ask Texas Womens University to join up?

As another alums pointed out to me "Boise has just re-joined the old WAC." Just about right on that, too, but I would still love to re-unite with Boise again as a conference-mate. GMG!

Great coverage, Vito! Read it most everyday! GDRC!

And North Texas being a "filler?" that would "only" give the Mountain West Conference its largest TV market? Gol' darn it, who among our leadership can just get MWC Commish' Craig Thompson to just fly in for a day to visit and see all the synergy happening now at the Mean Green Village as well as the UNT System's "main" campus in Denton. That's where it will all begin for us & the MWC. So very obvious that something is just flat out wrong with our NCAA conference powers that be think tanks. Having lived in Honolulu at one brief time in my life all you have out there is half nekid' girls tanning at Waikiki, Nanakuli and North Island beaches every day at lunch time and beyond. You want to be part of a conference that has "THAT" going on among one of its schools? GMG!

I just about believe what you have posted. Just suppose we are now reaping what we sowed for decades of poor hirings. Eventually, it will catch up with a school. Thanks to all those crack UNT HFC selection committees we had to endure thru the decades one of which chose Dennis Parker over Dennis Francione (who wanted our job in a bad way even back then). GMG

This excites me about as much as the day many of us heard we were going down to NCAA 1-AA classification since we joined most of the schools in the above listed proposal as it was. $80,000,000 stadium for this? Not an easy sell, folks. Sh*t, somewhere along the way we truly made the conference and football gods mad at North Texas. Why don't we just call it: And All The Rest...Conference? Dammit... GMG! PS: Why couldn't one of MWC Commish' Craig Thompson's favorite family members have been a North Texas Ex or some tie to UNT of which (amazingly with the way these things go) could have put us toward the top of the list?

Since I've been an alum and even as a student, perception has rarely been a friend of North Texas. GMG

I'll reiterate what I first posted. If we can get some facts or go to the horses mouth why not ask the question. Duh? Maybe this one will get me 2 more red numbers from our anonymous hide behind their keyboard types! GMG!

? (Other side of the coin is if secret negotiations with the MWC have been going on which I would not bet my next pay check of that happening, either).

USU owes North Texas a big favor because (as I recall) it was North Texas who helped them get into the SBC when they had nowhere else to go and I remember one of their major campus leaders saying: "North Texas, we owe you a huge favor." Well, now it may be time for us to collect? USU may be smart by just being quiet and being a most appreciative school than one who suddenly wants to start dictating who the MWC should invite? Fact is, the University of North Texas has a much better athletic & impressive football legacy with our Abner Haynes Sun Bowl era to the Mean Joe Greene era to the Hayden Fry era and on and on and on than USU or San Jose St. can even dream about having. And UTSA? Well, isn't PeeWee Herman's lost bicycle actually in the basement of the Alamo? GMG!

Re-arranging all the deck chairs on the Titanic would not have produced different results. To quote the late Bill Blakely: "You can't turn chicken sh*t into chicken salad. How many times North Texas changed its shade of green, unis', what was on our helmets and most the time still produced the same results? Paint Obama green and you still have the most far leftist radical thinking president in US history and skin color had nothing to do with his politics now did it? If Condaleeza Rice or JC Watts had run for president I would have campaigned proudly for either one of them door to door and that's a fact--jack. We are what we are, folks, and cosmetic changes for the SBC will not trick anyone in the NCAA. We just need to get the MAC's sportswriters who seem to bloc vote their best teams into Top 25 polls to look at recent bowl results with the SBC versus the MAC and ask them to consider our best teams, too. That is what will change opinions concerning the SBC and that is our bowl rep being in the Top 25--at least it would be a good first dramatic step. GMG!

Pretty well sizes things up for many of us. Wonder if we had some "official" feelers from our campus leaders toward the MWC powers at all? We can't assume they (MWC) feel the same about our school as we. Any selling going on out there on our behalf for a move upward or are we going to spend the next 10 years celebrating the fact that we have a new stadium that in all actuality should have been built 25+ years ago? GMG!

If not the MWC now--maybe later? I stated in the 2'nd post in this thread I did not expect any miracles this go around. I guess San Jose State has had some kind of rennaisance athletically I am not aware of but gosh darn, California is in such a helluva' mess financially albeit I guess the Feds will eventually forgive all their debt (but I should know better than to go there on this forum). GMG!

I'm with GrayEagle who thinks upon Dodge's hiring & during that honeymoon period he telling North Texas powers that be if we didn't get a new stadium our co-existence in this new milleneum as a FBS football program would not be very pleasant. Enter UNT Student Body Referendum which passed quite admirably. Blame Game? Start out with our alma mater not continuing to try to hire experienced FBS/D1 coaches with HFC's experience. That would be be best place to start. All our project hires seemed to never take us to the next "ranked" era for those of us who still use Top 25 or even a Top 50 ranked football program as a barometer. Bottom 25? Just about anyone could coach at North Texas with that as our bell cow and I think we gave many of that group a chance. We are now the product of our own consistent abilities to continuously hire the wrong people for this athletic program with some of them having major family jewels to even be arrogant as they continued to steer a piss-poor athletic program. Other than all that from the past--I think this new stadium gives us the brightest future in Mean Green Country we have had in my lifetime. GMG!

IMO...only way CUSA adds another Texas school is if they lose a Texas school and then it's still a crap shoot. The former SWC schools in CUSA remember Frank Broyles complaining about "too many Texas schools in one conference" and that complaint by Broyles truth be known was the first shot fired toward the eventual dismantling of the Southwest Conference. I do know looking at UH's 12 (+/-) 3 star recruits causes one to understand fairly easily that what league your in can make a difference in recruiting. And Harry...in your photo collage the black & white photo of former Mean Green HFC Hayden Fry being hoisted on his teams shoulders after our Tennessee win in 1975 actually came from SUMG (who had sent me a copy of the photo). Must give credit where credit is due, of course. GMG! PS: Yes, we'd all love CUSA first, but there is still an intrigue about being 1 (of 2?) Texas schools in the MWC if that ever became possible--seems it worked well for TCU and granted, they spent all the extra money but I still think they would have done well even if they'd had the typical MWC school budget (which theirs was light years ahead of most of the other MWC schools from what another posted). GMG ! !

Unless Prez' Rawlins, Consultant Neinas and AD Villarreal have had some extremely effective conversations with MWC Commish' Thompson, I'm not expecting North Texas to find a quick seat to sit in at this MWC cake walk this time around. A surprise would be most welcome but I don't see it for now. The majority of us know we would have much to offer the MWC (including whatever the MWC's interrpretation of a TV market is which would be more than Utah States) and North Texas would hardly come in to this league hat in hand. If short and long term upside was part of their criteria for new members, then UNT would be toward the top of their list. GMG!

When I first enrolled at UNT in January of 1972, there would be what I would call these following schools who we had had some games with who were considered sleeping giants: Florida State, East Caroline, Louisville, Cincinatti, Memphis and North Texas. (Boise was not even on the D1 radar in those days); but I think of all the listed schools that Memphis & North Texas football programs could both make the next step upward. All the schools have us beat in the "what conference their in" department, though. GMG!

Looks to me that Lee J. needs some eyedrops, probably prescription eyedrops like on that commercial on TV with both ladies who are in that commercial having deer in the headlights almost spooky eyes. Just sayin' ...

Except for a 1 year coach and a unresearched hiring mistake with Bob Tyler, North Texas has had 1 other multi-year career head football coach in Mean Green Country with prior major college coaching expereience. We should have tried that hiring formula much sooner than we did but at least, we finally have and I think Coach McCarney coupled with our new football stadium is making some serious hay out there. I think a full year of recruiting by this coaching staff after this one will bring even more success. Some of us wanteded UNT to hire Coach Fran, but upon further review, I think we made the best possible choice for our situation. It would be predictable that the new stadium would ultimately be a program-changer, too. GMG!

D-A-D-D-Y (But what the heck, these days you have to use what you can use--would anyone on this board turn down their own dad's recommendation if it helped you get you a nice paying job)? GMG!

Its the old TCS at play. TCS? Texas Collegiate "we've got it going on and we don't want to play you to assist you in anyway in helping your program to get it on, too" Syndrome or the old....WHNTGBPY Syndrome! You know, "we have nothing to gain by playing you?" Didn't Texas Tech just drop TCU from a game next Fall and TCU tried to salvage that game by moving it to JerryWorld? There you go, TCS in action once again in the Lone Star State. We all should be used to this collegiate football form of social climbing by now shouldn't we? (I know, I hate it as much as most of you do, too, but what the hell do we do to change it, especially in Texas)?

And IMO this is probably the best news of whats happening with Coach Bill McCarney this recruiting cycle. Albeit locally (especially with the DaMN) we still don't seem to impress the usual DFW area media critics of ours with our new football palace, but I think most on this board expected it would truly have an impact with the level of players as well as the higher level of the other schools we are now recruiting against. UNT will still follow what even the national media says about TCU and Boise with their philosophy of "they don't recruit many 4 or 5 start recruits but they are 4 and 5 star before they leave those programs. Some would interrpret that that the coaching staffs at TCU and Boise seem to know which 2 or 3 star HS recruits have true major college potential to move up a few stars once in Fort Worth and Boise. GMG!