PlummMeanGreen

"I know you are...but who am I?" PeeWee Herman in a junior high'ish name-calling scene from "PeeWee's Big Adventure. (I used to watch that movie many, many times with an 8 yo step-daughter who thought it up there with "Gone With The Wind"). UH'ers who attend our stadium debut game on Sept. 10'th will appeciate it more in person and some may want to take back some of their comments & barbs. Fact is, any stadium looks good when it's filled to capacity-- even UH's Robertson Stadium!

We are beginning to sound like the LaTech/Sun Belt diabribes on Bulldogs, Barks & Bytes. In time and when all the right pieces of the puzzle are in place on campus, UNT needs to do a student body sweep run toward the MWC. Unless we want to merely blend in with all the rest of the rest of the Texas FBS schools, we need to copy the TCU model although in my heart I know we won't.

Concocting these cookie cutter conferences sometimes merely turns into a re-arranging of the deck chairs. No matter where you put the chairs, they are all still at the same mezzinine level and still on the same ship. Jumping ship as Boise State did years ago I wish would become UNT's model, although I don't think that on our present agenda with our present crowd. A new stadium was an unexpected surprise to many albeit necessary for UNT to stay in the football business.

You have a facility you can be proud of, utamav91. What is its seating capacity?

We have specialized most decades since I graduated (circa, 1976) somewhat like the old football drill called "running in place." That means we did a helluva' bunch of leg work but we weren't getting anywhere with it; that is, getting to a destination whereas our athletic accomplishments would be recognized as a Top 50 NCAA D1/FBS type of athletic program . Great people, ie, nicely paid staffers, make great athletic programs. It does not happen because of who we used to have, who we wish we'd had or just living on the "boy-howdy, our potential at UNT is unlimited" as our non-stop yet unrealized battle cry. What will sink many of our ships or spirits (if you will) is "IF" UTSA were to actually pull a South Floiida type rise from athletic nothing-ness, leaps in an upwardly bound manner from one league to a much better league and what it has taken North Texas about 100 years to do of playing football the Road Runners do it USF-style in less than 10 years. (Lest anyone forget, FAU in our own league has been playing football about 10 years (give or take) and we have hardly dominated them even losing to them one year we went to a bowl game when they were not yet official members of the SBC. Again...."If' that were to happen even down in the Alamo City, that would create a very awkward moment for whoever our UNT leaders are (if not the same ones still on payroll) trying to explain why we would still be in the midst of some kind of "you name the number" year plan in Denton that still has not come to fruition at a truly recognized level of success somewhat like Boise State's. GrandGreen I do think we should pay close attention to your below quote because some of us have seen countless other football programs pass us by post our Missouri Valley Conference membership years and your quote : "The truth is that additional fb teams will only increase the already great competition for resources in Texas. No one will be an immediate threat to NT but unless NT continues to substantially improve their athletic programs, they could in a few short years drop even further down in the state's athletic hierarchy."

I'm elgible but I wont't go there. And ask SUMG, I am an unabashed supporter of Herman Cain for President but. ...hellsbells, I get into enough trouble on this board already expressing my opinions based on my experiences as a 38 year alum of UNT without getting involved with the Sons of Confederate Vets. (My great-great grandfather from Alabama on my mother's side of the family fought in that war wearing the gray, was captured at the Battle of Chickamaga (sp?) but escaped from the Yanks). Guess I'm here today because of that happening. I am proud of my past affiliations with the "Sons of the Republic of Texas" and the Texas Historical Society, though.

I don't think any one from UNT hates UTA whatsoever...it wasn't their fault that Karl Benson trumped us for not joining his league by adding them to his "on again-off again-on again" conference. I do look for UTA to add football in the next 5 years because of the WAC membership. Fact is for those of us who aren't old-theimer'ed out just yet that we remember how we played many close football games with UTA as I recall. Even in our last game with them during their last season Chuck Curtis's Maverick team gave us all we wanted. I think now would be a good time for them to change mascot names, too, since so many others have. (Come on, Duck, get back with your Prez' Spaniolo (sp?) on that. Tell him DFW already has a team called Mavericks albeit they stole if from yall, right? Even Hayden Fry's first game as NT coach UTA schooled us quite well at Texas Stadium. The game was not a pretty sight for those of us who always want good things to happen for the team in green, but those apple green unis' back in that day and Rick Spear's flying worm were real neat. I can sitll remember seeing them come onto the field in such colors in Fry's first game to coach at the "double F" word.

So Just What Are Our Real Objectives & Aspirations Now That We Have A New Stadium? Same Thing We Did With The Super Pit For 30 Plus Years After It Opened? Hopefully.....Not. Almost seems one is reading a blurb about UNT--almost. And before Fall, 2011, enrollment numbers are in UTA has already ranked themselves ahead of North Texas? Some of us watched about 10 D-1 football programs back in the 70's that we were their equal or even ahead of run right by us like, uh,.........that road-runners cartoon except few of us were laughing. Is this what we have to look forward to in the next 2-3 years because other schools somehow stole our momentum red-handed? (1) UT-Austin (2) TAMU (3) UH (4) UT-Arlington (5) Texas State U (6) UNT If UNT powers wants to wear that new stadium as a medalion of accomplishment (which for one year could rightfully & deservedly be done); yet if some on campus think the new MGS will on its own create an upwardly bound FBS football program or market itself the next few years on its own because it's there--it won't. We all know our program well enough to know it won't; Great people create great FBS athletic programs and it does not happen by osmosis. The WAC's UTSA seems to have that cocky South Florida "get out of our way--here we come" attitude and will soon enough IMO have a better OOC home schedule than North Texas because they have the aggressiveness of a school that wants to prove it belongs. Yet at times we seem to be showing signs of being stuck in our Fouts Field-esque past with our M.O. At some point, something will have to give with that modus operendi because being the best in the Sun Belt thus far has mean't no Top 25 finishes for any of our football champions the last 10 years. Yet, UTSA has their Alamo-Dome and a great destination city. It would be easy to predict that Texas Southern U (NCAA D-II?) will not be on the future schedule of the Road Runners any time soon, either. They will undoubtedly do things to go upward a la South Florida as their model rather than using UNT's "50 year plan" model and our much of that time having no real goals or destination points but rather "look how many teams we are suiting out now"; and during the last 32 years our having numerous staffers whose performances were judged not on wins but how long they've done us a favor and stayed in Denton; we've had every shade of green under the rainbow and with every new regime we could always expect a new logo, a new eagle (except we are the Mean Green, or are we?) and even periodical campus wide new brandings to accomodate the desires of newbie staff members and many non-UNT graduated newcomers who................always knew what was best for our alma mater over any one that had actually graduated from North Texas. Our new stadium just gets us at the place we needed to have been at least a couple decades or so ago because we will never know all the many ways Fouts Field during that time cost us opportunities with a better conference, hence better recruits, better scheduling and maybe even better bowl opps, too, with Top 25 ranked opponents. Boise State proved to us so many things that we could have possibly duplicated at UNT the previous 32 years (except for our decade in & decade out albatross called Fouts Field) but BSU also had a formidable D1 football stadium in their program since the 70's; about the very time Fry left UNT for the Big 10 while leaving UNT literally stuck with Fouts Field another 32 years later. IMHO, the one thing that A.D. Fry could have done that he didn't was get us a new on campus stadium built when costs were not so exhorbitant. Yet........ never in my wildest dreams would I have believed that I would be 60 years of age before we would have a new football stadium in Denton, either. (It goes by faster than you willl ever want it to, Young Gun Alums, it really does). Still.......the best part now is that we have a chance to do something way outside our usual box and thats only because of the new Mean Green Stadium. I know many of us just hope all the pieces to our puzzle for UNT are in place for us to do some serious catch-up and with the new Mean Green Stadium for us to not get left behind (again) at the train station. And now isn't it amazing that we now have 3 new FBS Texas-based schools to contend with; 2 of which could pass us up in enrollment which is not the end of the world but we know the symbolism that that alone will create within the state most of us reside. Ever been to the race track and the horse that was supposed to win which you put your rmoney on limped out of the starting gates only to get surpassed by other horses that were supposed to not factor in that race at all? Still, the sports pages will report who won the race and who on paper was supposed to win but, shame, shame, shame.....it did not (and then the jockey had 100 other excuses as to why).

I would think the SBC needs more of a Texas presence, but I don't think Wright Waters has the family jewels to pull that trigger albeit Karl Benson just spit in the face of the SBC and North Texas by adding a school in our backyard. Hey UTA'ers, this is not about you on a personal basis since it wasn't you all that pulled this trigger. IMHO, the FBS leagues that will fare best in the future will be the ones whose leaders will look the devil in the eye and say: "I don't give a rats behind what other people think, we're adding Texas State and UTSA because of how it strengthens "OUR" conference." (That will never happen with today's SBC). On the other side of the coin of doing the aforementioned is if North Texas pulls a TCU and distinguishes itself apart from the rest of the Texas pack. How? That's why we pay people the big bucks to go outside the usual box and figure it out. HINT: A relentless blitzkrieg to the powers that be of the MWC would be one helluva' start IMO. We're closer to all the MWC schools than UH for that matter and there are no other Texas schools with as easy travel access (with close proximity airports) than the University of North Texas.

Agree... All alums should review NCAA rules as I don't think we at any time are to communicate with potential recruits. PonyGate probably had much to do with that ruling more than anything.

...and that forecast is with a 3'rd place finish in the SBC. Kinda' strange, though, that they still have Fouts Field as our home stadium. NOTE: If this is old news Harry or Admin's please remove thread. GMG! On another front: To my new Facebook friends I only get on FB about once every 2 weeks.

A Super Conference, ie, BCS with only 70 (+/-) some odd teams playing each other means more 5 & 6 or 6 & 5 records on a regular basis and during this era of NCAA football that will mean an epidemic of coaching turnovers at that highest level. Moral of story: The Big Boys need the FBS moreso than the FBS needs the Big Boys. Some of our FBS schools would kill to have a 6 & 5 record and I know of one in particular right now.

So Big "D" we can look forward to "Bowling For Dollars" in the DFW market once again? Oh yes! The good ol'days of WFAA TV's Talk To The Manager with Mike Shapiro and Verne Lundquist hosting BFD's! What a great retro idea from RV! I think back in that day you were driving the Chinook, I had a green Toyota and Spears had his Merry Miler in apple green with his flying worm helmet on it. Ahhh...the memories!

... what is the seating capacity for the east side UNT student section?

Just more proof that there's just no room in Denton, Texas, for "the Chciago way." Keep em' up there, Mayor Rambone Emmanuel.

I guess I am out of the loop on future schedules, but why do we have only one OOC home game next year? Otherwise, I do agree with your assessment. I digress, but why build a new D1 football stadium if we are going to keep doing things such as scheduling as we did at Fouts Field? And God help us, what if we have a sophmore jinx 2'nd year in that stadium and lost to TSU? One of our most successful coaches in UNT history had a terrible football team his 2'nd year in Denton and won only 2 games. Caca happens.

You are so right, how a city supports one of its city's chief cash cows (even some cities #1 cash cow) and potential national marketing tools for said city is always important. I don't think UTSA can duplicate the early successes of the type of program such as South Florida simply because there are so many more FBS school in the Lone Star State than Florida to vie for recruits. For a school with no sports history at the FBS level, it seems they have been taking an online course from LaTech's BB&B smack board on how to be condescending when they have absolutely nothing to be condescending about.

LaTech's new school song... http://kids.niehs.ni...upon_a_star.mid

With the Texas WAC and a UTA (who will have football within 5 years some now predict) we now find Texas having more FBS schools than it probably needs and things now getting too muddled as a result. Somehow/someway North Texas needs to find some degree of separation from what now has become a crowd of FBS schools and if it can be done (from some of the CUSA schools, too) so we can distinct ourselves from the large crowd of schools in our Lone Star State. TCU can out recruit all but UT and TAMU and now many times compete against Baylor & Texas Tech for recruits because of the success they had with their MWC membership and now Big East membership. The Frogs had a plan all the time to separate themselves from the rest of most of the FBS pack in Texas and it has worked in Frogville. (Who won that Rose Bowl game this last January again)?????? I have no way to know what we could do, except I do know a strong OOC home schedule could go a long way in our getting games the rest of the Texas WAC schools may not get for the moment because of their not having a Divison 1 past (or legacy if you will) that we have had since the Abner Haynes Era quite frankly. The Haynes years at UNT is what many in the NCAA call the beginning of the modern era of NCAA football. UTSA will get some good schools into the AlamoDome in due time, but North Texas needs to strike while the iron is (I think) hot instead of our being too late another 25 years (our magic procrastination number at UNT IMO) to solve this log jam. I know not many answers for UNT in all this for now, but whether you believe it or not, North Texas just got trumped by Karl Benson of the WAC by putting a WAC team in our backyard and if our powers don't know it then I fear for our future, too, with such naivity. I know Wright Waters has been (mostly) good for the SBC, but I think North Texas could lessen this WAC thing by sponsoring Texas State U for SBC membership. The league could use another Texas member and for what its worth, we will be recruiting against the Bobcats now that Coach Fran is their coach again. If we don't get pro-active in Denton with some of these subjects, we are merely going to be the same ol' North Texas of the past 20 roller coaster years but just in new football diggs and that the only difference. The Texas Southern U scheduling at the MGS next year is not a very good indicator of things to come (except our doing the same things over and over gain the same way expecting different results). Just sayin...

Wholeheartedly concur. SMU's narrative on North Texas has always been intreresting to me thru the decades. Wonder how a shrink would assess their continuous condescending attitude toward North Texas? I think we might know some of what he would tell them & even why?. Do we now have a better overall athletic plant (complex) than SMU, especially with a LEED certified football stadium and our (still) ageless Super Pit? Just for fun, the below link was one of the earliest renderings of what a new football stadum might look like at our Mean Green Village and.....is that the bloody Thames River running alongside that rendering or what? http://www.unt.edu/g...newsstadium.jpg

I just don't hear the "NTSU" thing as much as we used to and it stands to reason for that the more years we distance ourselves from the year of our name change. Our nationally televised bowl games were a slow education process and by the time of our last bowl game, even the announcers were cognizant of the fact that we are "North Texas" or "UNT". Helmet? I know many of us would have preferred we stuck with the "worm" through all regime changes or even SOW since words on a helmet or even letters cannot be as strong as a symbol IMHO. Letters or words of our school look just fine on the top part of our football jerseys but that is just the opinion of one. I was also one of many who thought our initial capacity should have been around 35,000-40,000, too, and the UH board is concurring and poking a bit of fun at what we will have. At least a capacity as large as the enrollment of our alma mater . Texas State is already talking 34,000 after they finish their initial expansion and with Coach Fran now in San Marcos, I believe they will get that. Do we need 35,000 now? No, but it would have been easier to schedule UT, TAMU, Iowa, Oklahoma State, Iowa Staste and the like had we done that we had would have come close to our would have sold out with such opponents. The difference with gate receipts with such a capacity would have gone far in funding a arge portion of some of our minor sports I would think but... ...what we have now looks damn nice and I know some schools out there would like to have the MGS even starting out at its approx. 31,000 seats!

Charles, I know there might be exceptions in certain years, but the last 25 or so years it seems we have never done that well on the FW Star-Telegram's list, especially when it was their sports staff doing the research and listing of schools interested in said players.

Drex, not meaning to change the subject, but I love your helmet icon. Was talking to another alum the other day and we agreed how nice it would have been had we of UNT actually stuck with that helmet (with a shade of green color variation inasmuch as apple green has not been popular since the 70's) all these decades instead of the "parade of helmets" we've seen since the early 80's? UT has stuck with their futuristic looking Longhorn on their helmets, smu with their pony, UH with their "UH" and probably most of the BCS/FBS have hung in their with their same-look helmet look for decades. Never liked words or letters on a helmet but rather a symbol. I think most may agree that part of creating an identity at North Texas may include sticking with something that worked with most over a period of time rather than constant change of sports gear with each athletic regime change. By the way, isn't it time for yet another whole new round of branding at North Texas ? PS: Just how different are academic standards at SBC schools compared to North Texas?

LaTech does not have the overall facilties to really be considered for the Sun Belt, do they? They've drawn up a bunch of pictures of what they'd like to have but heck, even Texas high schools from A to AAAAA do that kind of thing all the time on diner napkins. Yet...the 'Dawg fans have no more influence with their school's decision makers which is usually the case most everywhere else in the FBS. Still....I don't see that the SBC is hardly in a "begging mode" scenario with LaTech as it is. Hope they enjoy their league when all those Boise State BCS bowl percs are completely dry. Dawg fans need to understand that there probalby isn't that much interest in another Louisiana school in the SBC. They can scream "no SBC" all they want but who really gives them that much thought other than a handful on these smack board posters most likely merely goading them into this "no SBC" theme just to get their dander up. Honestly, I think some on this forum would rather have Texas State U in the 'Belt rather than LaTech. They are already talking 34,000 seat stadium after the expansion happening now & Fran being in San Marcos will probably make that happen sooner than we will even start thinking beyond what we have now. For UNT it will be easier for our travel budgets and it will allow some of our CenTex & SW Tx. area recruit's parent a chance to see their Mean Greener in action even closer to home on occasion. Minor sports would also have a less expensive travel budget going to San Marcos over Ruston, La. Main thing North Texas still needs to do is get Top 25 up to Top 50 schools into the Mean Green Stadium for OOC games, because we will already have a very, very steady diet of #51 thru #120 plus(?)

Amazingly......yes. But they need to do more than just draw pictures of what they would like to have their stadium look like. GMG! PS: Wonder what would happen if the SBC would snatch TSU away from them?