PlummMeanGreen

Back in the Day... FIU fans probably now feel similar to how many of us felt after Hayden Fry's 1975 season at North Texas (and to debrief GMG.com newcomers some of whom have kids signing with us tomorow) Coach Fry's Mean Green team that year was quite successful with wins against the University of Tennesse Volunteers and UH Coogs the year before they entered the SWC). After that 1975 season, North Texas and Fry were the talk of that winter's NCAA convention as I recall reading in the Dallas Morning News. In fact, Rice University's AD Dickey Moegle who back in his student days was a Rice All American RB player and during a game in the Cotton Bowl as he was running for a certain TD in that New Years Day classic game, he was suddenly way-laid and knocked unconscious with an off the bench tackle by an Alabama Crimson Tide player ; anyhow Moegle (spelled Maegle before he changed its spelling years later) offered Coach Fry the job to become the new HFC for the Rice Owls and to make a long story short..... ......Coach Fry turned down a Southwest Conference job to stay at North Texas. Had there been as many bowl games during Fry tenure in Denton as there are today, I can count 3 or 4 of his 6 Mean Green teams which could have gone to bowl games and I suppose that among several reasons the Big 10's Iowa Hawkeyes swooped down to Denton, Texas, and took him to the frozen tundra in the midwest. And his Iowa job where he would be a tutor to several future NCAA FBS head football coaches and among that group the great Dan McCarney. One year in Mean Green Country with a team that almost became bowl elgible should tell us we are very fortunate to have a coach that wants to stay in Denton,Texas, America and build something very special at a very special football stadium located on the campus of a very special school no matter what our respective eras were as students. (I know many of us sense the same thing with UNT BB Coach Johnny Jones, too, and myself being from the Houston area, I can remember just how many years it actually took UH's Guy Lewis before his program really got into a winning groove on a national stage like Coach Jones could take MG basketball, too). A Happy & Successful Signing Day Tomorrow Coach McCarney And Staff! GMG!

(1) You can play your true freshman year. (Let me repeat: You can play your true freshman year). (2) Head Football Coach Dan McCarney, a self-admitted disciple of former Mean Green HFC & College Football Hall of Famer Hayden Fry. Much was expected of Coach Mac his first year in Denton and his first Mean Green team almost became bowl elgible. The trend indicators and arrows all point north. (3) Apogee Stadium: You (yes............"YOU") can be the reason we have to expand what former Dallas Cowboys Super Scout Gil Brandt called "a real Taj Mahal of a college football stadium" to 40,000 seats. The First Ever TD Scored At UNT's Apogee Stadium: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtBKaoXmTe0 (4) North Texas has 208,000 NT Exes living in the DFW Metroplex--more than any other single Texas-based university by a country mile. Might those kind of UNT connections help in your job search after you graduate; that is, if you're not playing in the NFL? (5) Have you seen the co-eds at the University of North Texas? This post has been promoted to an article

http://www.latechbbb...s-for-next-year I know, we already have LSU, but how good are the Aggies supposed to be next year? Top 25? GMG!

May be wrong about this, but there seems to be more vascillating of committments from this years class and it seems to have hurt us as much as anyone. It seems for a few years kids who committed to you stuck with you. If you've been to the AF Academy's Colorado Springs campus, it is a great environment to be around but a very difficult place for most any non-military school to compete against. Nevertheless, we can all salute Jerod Evans for his committment to the USA and the AFA albeit I really thought we had a chance with this talent from comments he had made about North Texas. GMG!

Of course, most the, uh, "finds" about anything CUSA is on the CUSA board. http://ncaabbs.com/s....php?tid=551823 Why Their Attitude Toward North Texas.....Possibly? The CUSA folks out east (all 2 of them) do not like North Texas ( at least the ones who've been out of their diapers a few years) because (a theory here) I'm sure some realize we have a true (albeit modest NCAA legacy) from the 50's, 60's, 70's and on (and they don't have even that) plus some older ones (especially from ECU) remember what UNT did as a Major Independent before we went into our 40 year walk in the wilderness of hiring assistant coaches non-stop to be HFC and then our hiring some of the worst ancillary athletic personnel in the history of the NCAA (some of whom kept getting extended contracts with under .500 career wins) and some who kept bullshitting our alums into thinking we were a real juggernaut of a program (albeit one with most varsity programs well under .500 in their multi-year stays in Denton) Get it? I digress, moving on......................... and also back in the day........ ......an era when we were ranked near the top of Major Indy's for several years (even Top 20 polls a couple of times) and the East Carolina U Pirates as a Major Indy' were not and for what its worth their school was mostly back then a....................."WHO?" (And to many down here they're still a "who" with all their "un-noticed by the Big East Conference" success and outstanding attendance numbers. Unless the Pirates report those attendance numbers on these kind of boards (like their CUSA board, for instance) the only ones who seemedly are going to know about those numbers are the ones who show up at their stadium for their games. The eastern seaboard media for damn sure are not impressed with ECU or they would be in the Big East now. Some from ECU (smack board posters lest we forget) would promote anything except North Texas with some of the above background as mostly likely their main reasoning and the glaring fact that North Texas is in a major TV market which is (unfortunately) inimidating to some in smaller markets who don't realize what such markets can do for their TV dollars take-home; but again, we are talking about posters from message boards who will not have a vote at the table when that day comes. GMG!

And that will slip up on you when you least expect it. Some are just more vulnerable than others & I'm doing R & D on that as we post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

I'm not sure in today's NCAA that any conference is looking out for the welfare of another; for certain the Big East was not as those who raided it were not either. As long as the Wright Waters (and his successor) have the S. Alabama's, App States, TSU-SM, UTSA and Georgia State-types out there the Sun Belt will not lack for members. According to many on message boards everywhere, the WAC is already dead and its no longer a secret that North Texas would prefer to be elsewhere and if we get that I believe even the cost of travel for all our varsity teams will be cut to some extent (among many other things even more important such as perception which is a battle we've been losing for decades now). O conference gods please give us just one big smile). GMG! PS: Cable TV Stuff: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=NzlG28B-R8Y The cable network (?) documentary on "Namath" is quite outstanding for those who remember Broadway Joe when he was playing or saw videos after he retired. Has anyone since Namath had such a quick dropback and release with (most the time) accuracy? And I wonder if ESPN's continual running of PonyGate with their 30/30 series can somehow most strangely be a positive for their program here at recruiting time? No conspiracy here, but seriously. Whats the saying about "no matter what you say or write about us just spell our name right? (After all, the ending of the PonyGate documentary has an upbeat "yall come help us rebuild and turn this thing around" plea from Eric Dickenson and Craig James). Never discount SMU's influence in the TV industry and I'll swear to hell freezes over that former ESPN personality & SMU great Craig James had much influence with B.E. officials about his alma mater, ie, "the School that Doak Walker built into never ending infamy" and I guess he had some photos of Ford on its opening day for a crowd shot to show them, too, (although we can't say much on that subject for the moment, at least)

I did say "probably" on UTSA but your probably right. GMG!

If North Texas is not part of the "22" then I think we've been doing something wrong in Denton much longer than most will want to admit and God help those who will have to do the explaining and damage control with that one. If market is the driving force with this, then we should be OK with this expansion. I also think WAC-16/2.0, ie, the "22" does not last past 3-4 years, either, but whatever is left will probably still be better perception-wise than where we are now. Honestly, I like the Sun Belt as it became a lifeline when it was our only choice post-Big West football implosion, but it's just that the national media and football poll voters don't seem to like the SBC and haven't from its beginning. . UNTflyer (as I said above) inasmuch that I agree with you that the "22" alliance will not last but what I think would be created as a conference post-22 split will still be better for North Texas than the 'Belt (and even probably a more regional conference with no more 1,000 mile trips as we've had in the SBC). A new conference created by such a projected "22" split-up would probably have to add a UTSA, etc, etc, etc, but that is not a bad option since most enjoy a trip to San Antonio. Also, Is UAB going to make it in CUSA if they don't get a stadium which for now seems doubtful? Even that (unfortunate) for UAB scenario could help North Texas but I guess like everyone else, we'll just have to wait and see. GMG!

"But if they do catch fire it's better in a populous market than a small market." AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! Of course, Jack, for whatever reason (cough-cough), you can't get small market schools to agree with that spot on quote; especially several from CUSA and the MWC (and even some from the SBC who would really like us to fall on our butts with our upwardly bound aspirations). GMG!

Fantasy conference may have been the better word choice. Just sayin' Ideal conference to me means what might make sense for North Texas with our location and budget and I like one more regional and USA south/central located and no 1,000 mile trips in it as in FAU or FIU. Non AQ's dont' have the TV revenue monies to be sending their tiddly winks team 1,000 miles to play whatever those 2 Florida school's nicknames are. (Good God, Hayden, can you believe it all came down to this and we keep patting people on the backs because of being and keeping us mediocre, too)? GMG!

I know Arkstfan is a staunch defender of all things Sun Belt Conference'esque and he may be right on this one, but I think the more schools who leave the Alliance means North Texas moves up the ladder another important knotch toward eventual membership whether it happens this re-alignment cycle or the next in 1 or 2 years, but it still bodes well for us IMHO. Da' Map, Boss! Da' Map! I think CUSA decision-makers (not smack board guessers) look at the Alliance map and sees one helluva' gigantic, gaping hole (DFW) right in the middle of these 2 leagues and whether they combine as an Alliance or stay separate that gaping hole is still there plus......with the decision-makers I feel the " A-Ha" light bulb finally comes on and sensibility begins to emerge concerning UNT. Even today a CUSA poster from either USM or ECU commented about North Texas good history and legacy in the NCAA. That is what we have now that others do not; just like it was what Tulane had with their even more celebrated NCAA legacy as a former SEC member. (What is Tulane doing competively now that we know North Texas could soon equal and exceed)? Yet here we are....North Texas--a school with 40 years at the NCAA's highest level of competition beginning in its modern era which most say was the 1950's; yet here's our school that was actually well on its way up just like many of our former conference mates in the Missouri Valley Conference did in elevating their athletic programs, but then 1-AA , the Big West and the SBC hit North Texas smack dab in the middle of our gut and, subsequently, year after year got too many of our people thinking that "we were just not worthy" of anything except what we've had and have had now for a generation. Apogee Stadium has done much to end much of the inferiority complex among our elect that our Life and Times at Fouts Field had so much to do with persevering. North Texas has shown it can and will spend the monies needed to advance and thanks to our UNT students who did so much to make our new stadium happen and even with their referendum allowing our athletic budget to significantly increase now and in the near future. GMG!

Rumor is the 2 we lost to SMU had to be assured without a shadow of a doubt that they would play before very small crowds on a consistent basis and they could not get that same assurance about North Texas, especially now that the Mean Green are playing at the best (and non-added onto patchwork quilt) colllege football stadium in this part of Texas. GMG!

KEY PLAYERS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN: If the Alliance stands pat with their present membership, U of North Texas System officials, Lane Rawlines and AD Rick V should get with Rice and Tulsa's top leaders to initially gauge their interest in this message board projected new league I've listed below (lettting those 2 schools even tweak its projected member's schools if they so want) and if by luck those 2 schools were interested, ask them to take the lead in trying to get this league formed with our more than willing assistance. (I know, this just among thousands of another message board conference projections or pipe dream, but just "what if" Rice and Tulsa U were interested in all this and they even put in a call to fellow private Tulane to see if they would be, too)? __________________________________________________________ IMO, the Alliance will just have too many egos in it to make it work longterm (just like the WAC 16 did not work because of the egos that were beginning to make noises in that league). I don't think Rice and Tulsa alums/fans liked their experience in a 16 school league at all. North Texas is just going to have to start thinking outside the box on some of these things as to improve our future in the NCAA; that is, if the Alliance is not part of our future but........the Alliance already has problems such as.... ...it is too regionally divided by the map and even by (seemed) philosophy of how the Alliance should ultimately be and what seems to me with its eastern schools who seem to me to be acting like they are the majority (instead of the minority that they are). ECU is looked down upon by the Big East or they would be in the Big East, so its the old NCAA pecking order M.O. still in play and being North Texas we should know more than any school how that works. Hellsbells, the Eastern Seaboard/Southeastern schools like ECU and Marshall are kicking aorund names like ODU, Georgia State, App. State and some FCS schools to put in "their" Alliance and most their suggested expansion schools have no more name appeal than most schools down here do to them. (Are you going to stand in line at G. Ford Stadium to get those SMU/UConn tickets)? . Why ECU and Marshall don't take all their suggested Alliance schools and form their own regional league is beyond me. They would have the basketball schools to regain their basketball "points?" that forming a new league would initially make them lose. The Non-Alliance Conference (in 3 time zones instead of 5 like the projected Alliance will be and........with revelant or non-revelant comments by each school (1) UTSA......located in 3'rd largest city in Texas--let their program rise with the rest of ours in this new league; like it or not, SA is Texas best tourist destination city and Pee Wee Herman's bicycle is still hidden in the basement at the Alamo. (2) Rice U (located in the largest city in Texas and may not want to join a 18, 20 or 24 school conference (again). (3) NMSU......Why not? We have a good rivaly with these Aggies. Best damn game I ever saw at Fouts Field since 1973 was the game we won that made us host team at the first annual New Orleans Bowl (4) Ark State......Any league that has ArksStFan in it has the inside of whats going on, what can be expected to happen and so forth; albeit I don't agree with all his predictions at times; their football program is doing great now in its present win cycle. (5) La Tech......How much is that "Dawgie" in the window? A great Patti Page hit from the 50's inspired (I'm sure) by the Ruston-based school . Also on LTU's behalf, his league will "not" have the 2 words Sun or Belt in it, so LTU just might be interested. Seriously, they are a good small market program who like North Texas is prone to having a good season or 2 then several not so good seasons following. (6) ULouisiana......On top now; they are a program that I don't understand why has not gone up to the next level like every other school UNT used to be in bed has. (7) Tusla U......Like Rice U, they may not want to go through the equivalency of a WAC 16 type of conference again and maybe in this league we can figure out a way to beat the 'Canes (8) North Texas......for all the obvious reasons. One should only take a walk in our Mean Green Village to see what our financial commttment actually is to NCAA FBS level athletics. We are also becoming a school where blueprints don't stay on the table too long and collect dust. (9) Another SBC school? GMG!

Lets look at this way, we have two 4 star Rival recruits in school this minute who changed their minds and who I believe will be playing in our Spring Game in a couple of months? Take bitter? Take sweet? GMG! PS: His scholly' is now open and what if we were to fill it with a future All American? We've had quiet a few of those at North Texas. My late mother (as I'd bet many of yours, too) used to tell me "JIMMY (I knew I was probably in trouble when I heard that in capital letters decibals), "when one door closes a much bigger one can open."

Politics and we had an under .500 record, too. And many times it has to do if a player's school's athletic staff did their job. When Gil Brandt used to be one of the player selectors for this game, knowing Gil was an advantage. GMG!

If Devante' allows facilities to help sway him then La Tech doesn't have a prayer. The Dawgs will show him blueprints of the bridge to nowhere. GMG!

Talked with another fellow alum immediatley after this Fry article hit all the sports websites and we both knew (and laughed) that that writer had been "Hayden'ized." Fry was a great B.S. artist and we all loved him for it, too. GMG!

Jack, I highlight in green the part that says it all for many of us. I am not sure what these conferences think will help them get higher TV revenues, but I don't think adding even more small or medium sized market schools is the ticket, either, especially when there seems to be an abundance of those in CUSA and MWC as it is. Granted, like others I tend to not hold back on how I feel about most subjects on these sports message boards, but North Texas is being largely ignored by some posters of the CUSA and MWC conference smack boards crowd because we do have something many of them don't have, ie, 40 years of NCAA membership at its highest level of competition as GrayEagle mentions in his post. Some call it legacy which even that seems to be on non-importance on CUSA/MWC boards as I presume it would be by so many of that group who don't have it the last 50 years of last century. How important is legacy? Well, it sure seems to have been the very thing that got SMU into the Big East since it wasn't their record and modest attendance figures of the last 25 years that was the deal maker. OK, we are biased just like any one else in the NCAA, but (amazingly) the "large markets" are now being "poo-poo'ed by small to medium size market schools in CUSA/MWC because (to a degree) and IMHO they know if a school like North Texas regains what we had during most of those 40 years in the modern era of the NCAA, ie, all that happened during (1) our Abner Haynes Era, (2) the Mean Joe Green Era and then (3) the Hayden Fry Era at UNT; I think they know that a school like North Texas could become more of a real factor than they might want anticipating that we could regain all that had Darrell K. Royal , ie, the real Chairman of the Board of the old Southwest Conference if there ever was one ready to sponsor the University of North Texas for membership. As far as the UT & Darrell K. Royal thing is concerned, just not sure any of the other schools we are supposedly competing for CUSA or Alliance membership can say anything even remotely similar happened for their schools. I CANNOT FORGET HEARING THIS AND EVEN IN PERSON: I can remember hearing our own AD Rick Villarreal say "USM back in the day wanted to be like North Texas" and IMO think that had as much to do with who Fry had the contacts to schedule for UNT when many present CUSA/MWC schools could not even get return phone calls from similar schools we had on our schedules back then. That was one of those deals where having someone at UNT who really knew other NCAA movers and shakers worked to our advantage. I am at the point now that if North Texas gets over-looked for membership by some small market school with some based on one decent football season and from a conference or coalition of schools that say they want more TV revenues, then I am not sure about the long term longevity of a conference who think smaller markets are better than larger markets. Fact is: I don't think any of the schools that CUSA or the Alliance are truly (supposedly) and "seriously" looking at for expansion can touch North Texas in the area of the major mega-bucks which our school has spent; that is, the big money spent and the results of that which now has our Mean Green Village of athletic venues setting out there between those 2 Texas interstates looking pretty damn good. Yes, we are biased, but I bet those tens of thousands who drive by all this daily would probably agree with us in a non-biased way.

And Jack here are the total numbers: The 2010 official U.S. Census real counts has the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex at 6,371,773 making it the largest metro in the The South. Honestly, Jack, they need our huge market more than they probably need us, but fortunately for us (and unfortunately for probably a couple of others) North Texas comes with the market. (No, upon further review, they need North Texas, too). GMG! PS: Stayin' busy & having fun! www.soundworksdeejay.com My regards to Jessica and all, Jack, and hope your health is OK. GMG !!

Lest we all forget, there are plans for Denton and North Texas to partner for a major hotel and major conference center to be built inside the Mean Green Village near Apogee Stadium. I know budget has been a problem as far as finding the hotel firm who can work with whatever budget has been set for this project. I'm also all but certain that such another major addition inside the MG Village would also be a negative with CUSA'ers as their posters are now saying a large TV market such as ours with our 208,000 DFW NT Exes suddenly has become. (Good smack board snow job from those in a small market who think CUSA is going to fall over themselves to expand with their $15 million athletic budget NE LA school with sub par facilities to boot). Yet what a bunch of small TV market goobers who think their Alliance 16 model is going to work "with all that extra conferenceTV package monies---NOT) when the WAC 16 model didn't work and if you've read posts by alums of Rice, Tulsa and UTEP who were part of the WAC 16 most of that group don't think the Alliance 16 will work, either. Maybe with that group it's a case of "been there--done that?" Sometimes it seems that learning impaired "self proclaimed" demagogues permeate the entire NCAA, ie, those running these conferences and even at many of the school's athletic departments inside those conferences. Thought For The Day: Isn't it interesting that we now live in a country where you can legally burn the American flag but there are now places you cannot fly the American flag? (Register to vote today). GMG!

My bad, I thought it was 2013 but thanks for the correct information. GMG!

Yes. its a 4 game home and home series which I believe begins in 2013 with the first game at Apogee Stadium. Honest to goodness, though, it will not surprise me if SMU tries to buy us out of this series. The thing we cannot do at North Texas is schedule for Apogee Stadium with a Fouts Field scheduling mindset. We did not build Apogee to keep thinking small time--Apogee Stadium is "not" a small time football stadium. We have to assume that future demoralizing games will soon be a thing of our past with our 2'nd year HFC who we all hope & believe will build the kind of teams who will be the ones doing the demoralizing and as far as I'm concerned, let that begin with that 4 game SMU football series. I do know whatever number of fans SMU brings to our campus at that 2013 game are going to go back to University Park in complete shock & awe as to what they will see inside our Mean Green Village as they walk across the new Pedestrian Bridge over I-35E to get there. Ziz Ziglar calls it "stinkin thinkin': It is just so sad that we still seem to think of our future tempered with a past filled with so many promises but rather our seeing mostly failure. It's abysmal to still look at the overall under .500 records of our last umpteen coaches in Denton and even worse that at age 61 my era of UNT students were the last to witness a Mean Green HFC who had a career over .500 W/L record. (Trust me, younger alums, the years have flown by so fast that my head is spinnning since Fry left Denton). Albeit SMU gets pass after pass and an AQ conference invite with few winning seasons the last 25 years & post Death Penalty. Yet North Texas does not get even one pass just to read other message boards plus the TV market that got SMU into the Big East with all 35,000 of their DFW exes has suddenly become a negative for UNT with our 208,000 DFW NT Exes just to read posts on the CUSAbbs board. (What a crock). (Does anyone else you ever wish one of those gigantic Texas sink holes would just swallow the entire "freakin' SMU campus)? We (and I do say "we") have bought into so much bullshit up there over the decades that my own BS meter goes up very quickly and is one reason I see no sacred cows up there now since we have not seen much success under their watch. Coach D-MAC & Johnny Jones are on my "just leave em' alone" list and I'm sure there are some minor varsity coaches who would be, too, but it's still football and basketball that pull the train and pay the bills (or should). We really do have some pretty nice people who work in the UNT athletic dept, for the most part, but "nice" is an expected pre-requisite in the society we live especially those on the state of Texas payroll, but being results driven (more wins than loses) is (or should) be the main part of their contracts because w/o positive results, it all but becomes a moot point and the old MLB Hall of Famer Leo Durocher quote of....."nice guys finish last" becomes applicable..... but I think many of us would agree that nice guys can also finish first, too, GMG!