PlummMeanGreen

No comment. Amazing what egos inside an athletic department can do at the expense of those who have no say whatsoever and yet that same group which schools want to fill their stadiums. What ODU, UTSA and Charlotte are doing in the area of season ticket plans and sales is outside of phenomenal and last I checked, we will soon be competing against all 3. GMG!

As distressed and perplexed as most of us have been, I think there is someone out there who will eventually make it all happen in Mean Green Country once again. Maybe they are employed at UNT now. We do have a history and legacy to build onto which began long ago while others are just now beginning to start theirs. AND..........too much invested to turn back now or to turn off our football program. No school the size of North Texas gets rid of football. Schools like SMU do. My Junior year I and others on this board saw the Mean Green beat the University of Houston 28 to 0 the year before the Coog's enterered the Southwest Conference and in that same Fall many of us heard ABC TV's Keith Jackson in a national college football telecast extoll the North Texas Mean Green for going up to Knoxville, Tennessee, and beating a Tennessee Vols football team 21 to 14; by the way, a Vols team that was hardly chopped liver as they finished that season 7 & 4 as I recall. In spite of all this happening now which I presume is building us all a helluva lot of character, I really believe North Texas will see the glories of years (decades) gone by. After all, it was only just last decade that North Texas went to 5 bowl games, so with that in mind, we are not that far removed from success. We are just hungrier for it now because of those 5 bowl games among many other reasons. Winning (after all) does cure cancer, now doesn't it? GMG!

(Readers Digest Large Print Version) Thanks, wardly...., ie, another one who can see trees, the forest and the whole darn county where they're located. I only wish others could just put the green kool-ade down long enough, take a peak outside the Denton city limits and see what is and has been going on around us for awhile now; all that as we continue in our Mean Green dream-fest of not being too realistic and not wanting to accept the cold, ugly facts at times. So Now It's Postive Thinkin' Time On The Titanic: If I had been on that fateful trans-Atlantic cruise early last century and then suddenly...... "WHAM!"......our ship hits the biggest Texas-sized ice cube I've ever seen while at the same time the ship starts listing and then........... someone gets in my face telling me I should not express concern; "just sing with me "Don't Worry-Be Happy" because our Captain says everything is hunk-dory fine & has everything in order (and if the Captain says that it must be true, right?" .............. and with that my cue to say this to the Titanic's well-meaning Spirit Team Leader............ "I appreciate what you're telling me, good buddy, and perhaps we can even show solidarity and sing....."Nearer My God To Thee"........in 2 part harmony, 'yet in spite of all the positive, upbeat things I'm hearing from you pal'............this ship is still going down!" "And beggin' your forgiveness, O Titanic Spirit Team Leader, but please spare me any more pep talks at this point because I'm presently knee deep in some "VERY" cold salt water." ________________________________________________________________ SERIOUSLY.............We've had 8 losing seasons in a row for a reason, folks, and during that time we also saw an SBC program with less than a $10 million "total" athletic budget (ULM) go "Beep! Beep" past us (while beating #8 ranked Arkansas last Fall,too) and a main reason that happened with that one school from Monroe, LA, has been the main theme or topic on this message board the last 24 hours, namely...................R-E-C-R-U-I-T-I-N-G ! JUCO's? I think UNT's hand has now been forced to have to recruit more JUCO's but I've never seen that as so much a negative. As I recall, Boise did a bunch of JUCO recruiting back in their early rise up the NCAA Totem Pole of Top 25 rankings. Yet JUCO's get 2 years to come in and contribute early and by that time our 2 star recruits (and I do NOT say that with any semblance of sarcasm) will be bigger, stronger (maybe even quicker) and be ready to contribute. It Can Be All Good If We Start Doing Things Right... GMG!

I really think it high time for Dr. Lane Rawlins and our entire UNT Board of Regents to call our athletic dept. leaders over to the Alfred F. Hurley Admin Bldg to have a real, bonafide "come to Jesus" talk about the future of our athletic program--where its been and where it's going and what are the plans (if any) to change its direction. This thing just ain't working up there as is folks and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. It just takes those who can add wins versus losses and add the number of multiple losing seasons which have of late been piggy backing on each other non-stop. I didn't even think to check out how Charlotte did but to reiterate what UNTflyer posted................"Charlotte, folks?" We will hear spin after spin after spin the next few days on all this but aren't we all just a bit tired of being treated like school kids by some up there who think we must be dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to our ability to discern a good athletic program from one that flat ain't going anywhere? My Positive Take On This Class From Yesterday: We are all proud to the person of the new recruits who signed yesterday with many of our life longs passion....North Texas football. And most likely several of whom will probably be fine (maybe even good to outstanding) college football players in due time but truth be known...... they are not the problem here and they can't help if more 3, 4 or 5 star recruits were not brought into Mean Green Country even in Todd Dodges last couple of recruiting years up thru today to enhance the Mean Green teams they will all be part of. Our own 2 star signees will be just as important as all of Boise State's 2 star recruits were when they signed with the Bronco football program thru the years but difference being is how Boise State meshed all their "2 Stars" signees together with a nice combination of 3 star signees they brought in the last 10 or so years to create annual Top 25 football programs up in Mr. Potato Head Country. So IMHO this is really not about yesterdays signings at all. The problem runs much deeper but maybe more so with a day in and day out athletic adminstrative modus operendi and philosophy that has yet to turn North Texas into an annual juggernaut of a Top 25 ranked winner. FACT REMAINS THAT......North Texas just doesn't need to have another 10 years like we had the last 10 but for the life of me I see no trend that indicates that it will change. GMG!

Coach Fran was many of our's first choice, but some of us heard our present AD had a problems with him from their days at TCU. I don't think Fran even got an interview did he? I have no idea about the validity of our AD versus Fran story while at TCU, but it was one that I heard from somebody connected with the program. I believe Coach Fran had 8 Rivals 3 stars in his first recruiting class last year in San Marcos. So now TSU-SM has 16 Rivals "3" star athletes on campus but.......... I still think the unfortunate part of all this for TSU-SM is that they won't get many OOC games with other Texas-based NCAA FBS programs (besides UTSA) so they will have to make their hay in the Sun Belt and very well may start dominating that conference in the next 2 years; who knows, even might become the SBC's version of Northern Illinois with a Top 25 ranking to boot. Get ready for that to happen, green kool-ade drinkers. Just make sure you hide the arsenic if it does. Francione can build a football program once he decides to stay and not get too entrepaneurish with a money scheme website such as the one that got him in trouble at TAMU or Alabama as I recall. North Texas has turned down a very eager to get the North Texas job Dennis Francione (I think) 2 X's now. First time was when we chose Dennis Parker from Marshall, Texas, instead.. I hope Coach Mac can make it happen in Denton but I have to wonder about his overall health now as to be able to lead a football program whose back is against the wall as ours has been for 8 years now. No job (especially the UNT job) is worth one jeopardizing their health at all.. Apogee Stadium might as well be Fouts Field as far as recruiting has gone since it opened and I just don't get that part of all this at all. In Denton, its like we are still trying to put round pegs into square holes in our athletic department but no one seems to care up there as far as the ones with the power to break this cycle. Based on our trend of the last 10 or so years, I fear we will have another 10 years like the last 10 with our present leaders, but what do I know, I'm just another Negative Ned who only counts wins versus losses and winning seasons versus losing seasons over a period of years as the truest barometer of how we are progressing or regressing at North Texas. Unfortuately, I don't think Lane Rawlins and the UNT BOR's seem to measure a program's succcess the same, though. I do wish they would enlighten us all and tell us what they do use as their own barometers of success as far as an athletic program is concerned. This program cannot afford to happen what is still happening to it with what I see as no end in sight. Schools passed us by in the Sun Belt and I fear what our chances will be in a conference like CUSA that will year in and year out be the stronger of the 2 conferences IMHO. Those schools who are out-recruiting us year in and year out are going to most years beat us as they have the last 8 years in a row in the SBC. We all get delusional and think our time will finally come but the kind of results we had today versus other schools at our level will I think bring us back to reality very quickly--it has me for sure. We all thought basketball would give us a break from all our football failures of the last 8 years and raise the tide of success around Denton in at least something but even that has been a disaster. This trend we have going on in Denton is not a good trend at all, folks. Those who have been around a few decades pretty well know we just plain don't do the athletic thing well at all in Denton. If I were Dr. Rawlins and his BOR's I would honest to goodness clean house now on the eve of our CUSA membership if for no other reason to show the UNT constituency that they are truly serious about putting a winning NCAA FBS program in Denton. Hell, just start the thing all over from scratch and act like we're a brand new "start up" program. GMG!. PS: I think we got some fine future talent today but isn't it amazing how if we had more 3 star athletes on our campus how that would make our 2 star athletes raise their own level another star or 2 and they themselves become much better college football players as a result? Just a theory with that but maybe one worth considering. PS II Dammit! I just want North Texas football to be on top again before I check out and this is just frustrating the hell out of me (and others of my fellow Old Phart Alums).

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/teamrank/2013/all/all

Here's a list from another Texas school we used to think we were light years ahead that has 8 Rivals recruits with 3 stars..................it will break your hearts to read the link further down and have many of you (like me) keep on asking the same question..........Why not UNT, Lord above--why not UNT? I have never said Coach Mac doesn't deserve a 3'rd year at UNT and have said Year 3 will be his year, but with our under-whelming recruiting I am now worried about his Year 5, 6, and 7 since we have those in the upper echelon at UNT who absolutely don't know how or when to pull the trigger when it needs to be pulled knowing full well there is a definite trend of non-performance. Oh yes, past triggers have been pulled but not until our program was in complete shambles. Rivals Stars? Not many of us want to hear how unimportant stars are because we know they are important and that our usual spin on their unimportance is the old norm at UNT; especially when we don't have many recruits with 3 plus stars which of late seems to be an annual occurence this time each year. Yes, in deed, there are many 2 star athletes who make good college football players and some not even on anyone's radars who develop into good college FB players, but the odds are better when they have 3, 4 and 5 stars. God help us if our transfer program becomes a bust. In fact, it needs to start producing results and soon like starting around Spring football in a few weeks? The real clincher here is when you have a school down in San Marcos, Texas, who has never played most of the schools listed in the rainbow colored signatuare below (least of all beaten any of them which makes sense since they haven't played them:) yet the Home of Arnold the Flying Pig at Aquarena Springs has an NCAA FBS newbie school in its city limits that has 8 with Rivals 3 stars, fellow alums and long time Mean Green fans. Seems they had about that many even last year as I recall so all who want to play those Fighntin' Bobcats in the next few years stand in line. Read & Weep: http://www.txstatebobcats.com/sports/2011/2/1/FB_0201110203.aspx?id=234 GMG! PS: Do any of our UNT Board of Regents even keep up with "ANY" of this steaming pile of caca going on up there at all? Weren't most all our present Board members successful business owners or maybe CEO's who know how to run a business? Is it possible that they apply those same tenets of success to the UNT employees they are boss to who are only in charge of the biggest picture window a university in the Lone Star State has, ie, NCAA intercollegiate athletics and at the FBS level to boot?

So Jack..............you............ who I believe to be our most eldest of alums on this board who has seen it all at North Texas since the 1940's...what measures should our alma mater take to change what is without a doubt a multi-years trend of continued under-achievement and............mediocrity? Some on this board must be making money off UNT, have some semblance of business ties with the school or maybe even have bids to get future business from our alma mater and just won't step out on this forum with their own opinions except that which most would consider of a PollyAnna nature, but I know you will say how you feel and won't be shy in doing so. Fact is.........If we don't ask this present group at North Texas for more, they will undoubtedly just keep giving the same effort while telling us how lucky we are to have them in Denton. Moral of That Is......since no one else in the NCAA seems to be interested and hasn't been for years. I know from reading your posts the last 2 years that you (like many others) are disappointed that the presence of Apogee Stadium seems to have not improved our recruiting at all in fact...........its easy to say now that we had many better classes in past years while we had that pink elephant called Fouts Field as our home field. Of course, Apogee is still only 2 years old but it's impact has been non-existant thus far. UPDATE: We have 8 footballl losing seasons in a row, a basketball program that went from what we thought would possibly be our best ever to (barring a miracle turnaound) what level it is today, etc, etc, etc,....so.......................if you are Lane Rawlins.(who at age 73 is probably not going to do much to rock the boat but rather just merely tend the store)......yet if you were him...haven't you just about had enough of this 3 ring circus which would probably have Norman Vincent Peale putting a gun to his head? Since I graduated we have not had 8 losing football seasons in a row and I don't know if you could say the same since your graduation year. Years ago you told me you used to watch UNT football at the stadium that used to be located near what is now Willis Library but Jack......... and as sincere as I know you will be.............just .what does North Texas do at this junction in your opinion of which I've respected forever? GMG! .

Yes, as they say........... one game does not a program make or break, but we just had our 8'th losing season in a row, KRAM1 so...........speaking of smoking? Just what blend are you mixing these days because I want some of that like....NOW! LOL! Seriously, since my first North Texas game in September of 1973 and up till present day...most of us from that era (as you would know) have not experienced this many losing seasons in a row so I guess many of us Old Phart Alums are getting (might you say) a bit panicky since some of our life clocks are ticking? North Texas deserves no less than what our former Big West conference-mate Boise State has been doing and I will feel that way until my own last second ticks down. I don't get caught up with campus personalities and really stopped doing that about the time Corky Nelson left so it's easy to express how I feel about these things. Getting emotionally attached to UNT employees is not always the best modus operendi in order to keep an unbiased opinion on an employee's job performance. GMG !

KRAM1, you remind me of me 30 years ago with all the Dr. N.V. Peale stuff, but that was 30 years ago and much has happened (or not happened) in our last 30 years in Denton. I will not list all of them because that would take up too much (is it called) broadband? America loves "come back" stories and I hope our alma mater, ie, North Texas will be one of those this Fall (and I think it actually could be); but on the other hand...........well, I worked in private industry (as most on this board do) and when someone who does not get the job done with a fair amount of time to git'er done to quote a famous movie star............"well, you have to let them go." I realize UNT is basically a goverment run operation for all practical purposes and therefore doesn't seem to have the same sense of urgency private industry has but.............it really should. GMG!

If North Texas were to lose to 3 year program UTSA, I think the apocalypse would start soon-after and it would start in Denton, Texas, America; plus it would be very easy to predict that there would be one helluva bunch of heads that will be rolling out of the vicinity of the UNT athletic department because even they know BS-101 or spin would no longer work among the very restless natives that our constituency has become. I have admired UTSA's "can do" marketing spirit, but am not ready to concede to a school that has not one iota of the history that the rainbow-colored signature below this post indicates that we have at North Texas. I know, that and a buck will get you a bad cup of coffee, but history and legacy are still something to build onto and this next Fall will tell us much about what kind of construction workers we really have. I hope we are a raging success and become like a warm fuzzy feel good movie next Fall because I'm tired of changing every 4 or 5 years but while on that subject........you still may have to do what you have to do if you need to ultimately do it.

A good place to start looking for assistant coach replacements at UNT would be from schools among the Go5 who annually win the "3 stars wars" versus our dear alma mater. I really don't even want to say who those schools are today as I look at my NTSU degree hanging on my home office wall and shake my head. What are ULL, La Tech and ULM doing to get such good "speedy" athletes besides working their butts off in the recruiting wars? North Texas should be able to pay more for its assistants than at least 2 of those 3 Louisiana schools so why the delay? We have more time to break our 8 season losing streak did I hear somone say? I hope I didn't hear that (again). It's like most our Texas HS football coaches used to tell us all: "You play on Friday nights how you practice Monday thru Thursday." So is our quality of play in 2015 and 2016 based on who we will sign tomorrow? I know there are other variables,ie, transfers, normal atrition, etc, but losing is one variable that says recruiting is usually not going well and should be addressed immediately--even at North Texas which sometimes moves at a snail's pace to make over-due yet crucial decisions which affect our immediate future and ultimate chance to be successful again. We all love our school, right? So is wanting more for our school's athletic program (specifically football) such a bad thing? GMG!

I am not understanding ESPN's ranking system at all. A school with more 3 star recruits (and no stars above that) is ranked lower than a school with no "ESPN" 3 stars at all? Ricky Ricardo: Esplain?

That said, the No. 56 ranking would be the best ranking in Boise State football history, just beating out BSU's No. 57-ramked class in 2007, post-Fiesta Bowl. And it is the top ranking among all Mountain West teams, not that conference affiliations mean anything any more. So print those conference championship t-shirts, somebody. Here is how Boise State has fared in the rankings over the past decade: 2011 - No. 65 2010 - No. 97 2009 - No. 60 2008 - No. 64 2007 - No. 57 2006 - No. 78 2005 - No. 73 2004 - No. 72 2003 - No. 73 2002 - No. 75 The lesson here: make of rankings what you will. If you think they are the gold standard for college football success, then congratulations to Boise State for setting a school record and beating all other teams in its conference. If you think recruiting rankings are for the birds, then so what if there are 55 teams ahead of BSU. You'd prefer the rankings for actual football. http://www.obnug.com/2012/2/1/2764713/boise-states-2012-recruiting-class-ranked-no-56-highest-ever-and _____________________________________________ BSU apparently has a very astute coaching staff who can recruit talent that fall thru the cracks. Isn't that what most of us in the Go5 have to do? So what has really changed? Recruit speed and big linemen with quick feet and tougher than a junk yard dog that we as posters don't over-expose on GMG.com which I wonder if we do. No use any of us do another school's research. Don't think this will change but one has to wonder which coaches and alums from other schools check out this and other college's message boards. Few were fans of former UNT HFC Darrell Dickey's under the radar recruiting but just maybe it had its advantages?

These 17 and 18 year olds need to go with what some would call their initial gut feeling. If they committed to one school they should stick with that committment. If they are a pick up because said school lost 4 others before they "finally" got offerred they should probably still go with their initial gut feeling. They should go to where they can play ASAP and, yes, we're all biased here but it looks like Apogee Stadium would be more than a nice place to get to play ASAP. We will wish Mr. Antoine luck whoever he chooses, but North Texas probably wanted him longer and the most than other schools who came into play in the 12'th hour and only that because they did not sign others for the same position. This!

I stand to be corrected, but I think UH and TTech have reached Tier 1 and North Texas meets all criteria except our endowment coffers needs millions more. At one time, it was just UH, TTech and the UNT systems who were the next group up for Tier 1 status, but now I think many more institutions have been added to those 3 and are now seeking Tier 1. GMG!

This all day long!

I was actually at the first (and last) one which was not at the time an official quarterly meeting. It was RV's first ever meeting at UNT which one could say was the prelude of others similar that would not come to pass. It was a fumbling of quarterly meeting plans of biblical proportions. And UNT's Unis? At least our shade of green is much prettier and better looking than the Tulane Green Wave. YUK! Whoever picked their color combo must have been on an all night drunk on Bourbon Street. Was the green inspired by all the puke on that famous street? Might be worth a google search.

Back in the late 60's, my college team as a youth (UH) had a defensive end about the same speed, same height with a little more weight named Jerry Drones, ie, part of their "Mad Dog" defense. He made some All American teams in 1969 as I recall. So......John Woods as a defensive end possibility? Nevertheless......Welcome to Mean Green Country, Mr. Woods! We are one dysfunctional family of opinion at times but all of whom wanting one thing back at UNT again..............winning ranked football teams with even more bowl appearances and....bowl wins. GMG!

Maybe some of the Denton bashing because of how a 2 year old upstart football program in the Alamo City draws more now than we have in 100 years of college football? Of course, they're also doing better than SMU, Houston, Rice, etc, etc, etc, but North Texas should want to do all to differentiate from any of those schools because..........we have all the necessary tools to do such--we just don't have the marketing blueprints in place or the carpenters to make it happen yet..........IMHO. I look at attendance during the Fry Era when Denton had about 39,000 population; Denton County had 99,000 population and was a county that Texas Almanac described as a "rural county" (which it was); now we have Denton at about 120,000 population and a Denton County that will soon enough be closing in on 700,000 plus citizens--honestly folks, we don't need Dallas and Fort Worth to make our success happen albeit we are considered part of the Metroplex. And as we look at the attendance at our football games today which are (no better way to put it) just not commensurate with the growth of all of our present day & various UNT-related constituencies (student enrollment, city growth, county growth, DFW alumnus growth, etc).....................so all of this still begs the question that no one on campus ever seems to want to address of.....................What in Ceasar's Ghost name do we do up there to make our football program so damn unattractive to all the new blood, new faces or potentially new fans as compared to upstart UTSA who has made their terrificaly terrible football product attractive to mostly curiosity seekers yet in most impressive numbers? This question will still piss off the usual ones but at which point do we all get tired of praising the ones wearing "The Emporer's New Clothes" but rather our (collectively) demanding from our leaders to stop once and for all the lip-service/B.S. modus operendis in Denton and to merely get down to solving what I think most would agree are the very problems which keeps our athetic program "barefoot & pregnant" (so to speak); that is, our favorite school from even ever being seriously named in any future conference alignments comparative to a 2 year old upstart college football program 5 hours south down Interstate 35. North Texas is really that (here are those 2 words again) sleeping giant that just needs the right combination of leadership talent to wake it up since we know from our 41 year old Super Pit experience that outstanding venues alone will not get the job done. I think we have seen that Apogee (alone) is not going to git'er done, either. Just more scattershootin' (and RIP Blackie Sherrod). GMG! ____________________________________________________________ Addendum: Also wouldn't hurt for a handful of present Texas High School 3, 4 and 5 star recruits to say next week: "Look at what we can do to make a difference in Mean Green Country, that is, make a difference with each of our God-given talents meshed with the ones already living in the Mean Green Village athletic dorm and then to say...."move out of our way Boise State because it's now time for a new national Mean Green Football Story!" Nationally top ranked sports radio station, ie, Dallas' own KTCK 1310 "The Ticket" and its nationally known sportscaster Norm Hitzghes said 2 years ago as he was praising ou school for the building of Apogee Stadium. "Why not North Texas as the next Boise State....why not?"

How much longer, North Texas? That is all I'm going to say about that. GMG!

Well, we need to by golly hurry up. Some of us are running out of time. God Almighty doesn't always extend life contracts like they do at North Texas.

Now it's official! The apocalypse is near! Get all of your earthly affairs in order fellow alums and MG fans! LOL! (Seriously.......I agree, Gray Eagle)! SMU will probably start trying to use the Boise model to get to a BCS bowl game except they will be in a new conference whose teams IMHO will be beating up on each other quite effectively causing too many losses for any new Big East team to get ranked high enough to get to a BCS bowl game; that is, if I am understanding the formula as it is today for that to happen any more. GMG!.

Hellsbells, Bill, had we added merely another 4K-6K more seats when Apogee was built, we could have probably emulated what U of Central Florida (hardly a household name here in the Southwest) did and scheduled the Texas Longhorns as the most historic home opener in University of North Texas history....just 4K to 6K like UH's "HKS blueprinted" stadium will be? I still like our stadium though--put a good football team in it and the sky's the limit with expansion not far behind; after all, we are in a population center that filling it even with curiosity seekers shouldn't be so big the problem we seem to make it be. (One might ask the question...how many of UTSA's "new" fans were actually curiosity seekers)?

Also, while we were sitting around bragging how great we are and what our "potential" is, TSU-SM went ahead of UNT by about $10 millioin in school endowment coffers fund-raising. Someone needs to wake up because we are getting schooled once again by some we should not be being school by. And the TAMU System? When did TAMU start competing with UNT? They didn't. And we are not going to start competing with TAMU, either. An 1870's Texas legislature made all this possible when UT and TAMU were given all that land which turned into quite the chicken salad of the states oil reserves which translated into the Permanant University Fund, while the rest of us not in either of their systems were given the chicken caca. I think UNT does have a bright future and I really mean that as sure as the turning of the earth, but sometimes you just need new miners to get on the mountain to mine for the gold we all know is there. That's all I am going to say on the subject for now because I've stated that opinion in another thread weeks ago. Funny how social invites to UNT gala events and functions have slowed down dramatically since I posted that thread! }:>) Now I am concerned if UNT having a 73 year old main campus president could be holding us back compared to other schools who seem to be passing us by. Most gents at age 73 if still working are mostly just tending to the store (so to speak), or well into their retirements and if in our state getting their state of Texas retirement benefit checks and for certain going to church more often. GMG!