PlummMeanGreen

Think about what each president inherited when they signed on with North Texas. Pohl did a good job of elevating the importance of NCAA D1 athletics better than most anyone. UNT Prez' Jitter Nolen hired Fry after Rod Rust's last team in 1972 had "ZERO" wins. Seems more talk of dropping football came after Rust's last season. All doubts would be erased in December of 1972 when Jitter Nolen and his VP Dr. Roy Busby spoke with Fry and then hired him......much to the chagrin of our "teacher's college" crowd. Hindsight is always....20/20 ! I sometimes think that UNT bit off more than our resources and far too few money rich friends/alums could really ever deliver when we kept expanding past the FW medical school to become a full-fledged system. In fact, had we not had the Dallas expansion (of which obviously putting the most prestigious schools, ie, law, medical, pharmacy, etc, in Dallas & Fort Worth) was part of the deal; anyhow, I wonder if our main campus could have picked up those prestigious additions instead. Yet our weak political presence in Austin probably prevented that. Again..........hindsight here. I also wonder if we would have had an easier time of raising the necessary monies to become a Tier 1 research university if we weren't so spread out but rather only had to focus on raising the requred monies for our Denton campus? So........do some schools now have an advantage over UNT because we are fighting too many academic wars at too many campuses in our UNT System? GMG!

Quite unbelievable... No conspiracy here, but we just flat out have some people out there who don't like North Texas--even stadium pollsters apparently. I think some of that is our fault with our lack of P.R. prowess outside of the Denton city limits, but I think some of that is also disrespect from our critics aimed at our school which even they know has all this potential that no one has yet tapped up there in awhile. Some of our critics and competition (even now in CUSA) know they have nothing close to UNT's potential and never will but.................one day, folks, one day..............UNT will finally catch lightning in a bottle and reclaim its Midas Touch. The law of averages says this has to happen at some point. Some of us would like it to be soon. GMG!

First, sorry about the repeat thread. I just got an email minutes ago from "Stadium Journey" which featured these rankings in its content so I thought this would be fresh material? And I agree, forevereagle, the Kibble'N'Bits Dome should be ranked last. Tulsa U has oil-wealthy alums who should do something about their stadium. By the way, last time "Stadium Journey" had their NCAA FBS stadium rankings out I recall that they had Apogee Stadium somewhere in the 100's which was preposterous but hey(!)............................................ we are moving up in the rankings! GMG!

As far as my generation and probably those older (as in the Mean Joe Era) are concerned, we've not done much at a level we thought we'd for sure be at by now in the last 30 plus years, but the UNT students (for the most part with their monies) and their passage of the new stadium referendum at least gave us a major college football venue for us to one day grow a major college football program into. If we can't do it with wins/losses over a period of time, then maybe we can just have better facilities than most of the rest of the mid-majors. This "new" rankings list obviously is tainted with unbelievable bias as I'd bet those polled and who did not give Apogee a higher rank have not put one step inside our on-campus stadium. IMO...........Apogee is just not one of those stadiums that can be fairly assessed from either Interstate or by looking at the huge press box. One really has to step inside Apogee to be able to appreciate the entire package. I'm sure had we had an 8 football season winning streak (instead of, well, you know) we probably would have jumped another 10 or 15 spots in this latest stadium poll. Winning programs who I think we have a better stadium seemed to get a rather nice bump in these rankings. Extra Stuff: I mean you have one other recent SBC school now a member in CUSA with what is undoubtedly and mostly an erector set kind of stadium (which Apogee is not) gets ranked ahead of our stadium? I..........don't.............think.............so. AND...........no way that any "mid major" football stadium built in the 60's or 70's should be ranked higher than Apogee Stadium. Again, had we been winning the last 30 years this poll as far as Apogee is concerned would favor us more. Tulsa U's stadium was ranked last in this survey. UNT's Apogee was ranked ahead of Coach Mac's former employer, ie, ISU stadium. http://www.stadiumjourney.com/news/02-01-2013/252/college-football-stadium-experience-rankings-2012/#comments GMG!

Whoops.

I thought I had heard all of Fry's (every once in a while) Fractured Tales but that is one that seems to have escaped me. What I did like about Coach Fry's Mean Green football teams was how most years they were playing at a Southwest Conference level of competition. it's been a long time for that but hopefully his disciple Coach McCarney will bring us back to the Promised Land. It's time. GMG!

Hey, techdawg88, yall were paying Dykes a very impressive salary before he left. What is your new guy going to be making as compared to Coach Dykes? Also, did La Tech have a buyout clause for Dykes? Just curious... GMG!

Seems I read somewhere that the oBE is thinking more in the lines of a northeastern addition such as U of Massachusetts. I hope Tulsa stays in CUSA and I think many of their fans seem to want to do that, too.

+1 I think (and hope) Coach Mac & staff have their Year 3 turnaround which many of us have predicted they would in, uh, Year 3, but we GMG.com sooth-sayers have not always been too accurate in the past, either. GMG!

Potential is like a large mountain with unlimited and untapped amounts of gold, but at some point you have to have the right gold-miners in place who have the ability to stop marvelling about how large that mountain full of gold is but (instead) start putting that pic into the ground to begin the mining process. Potential has become a not so popular word at North Texas in recent years, but that doesn't mean our potential is any less. GMG!

If North Texas could ever find a way in following former conference mate, ie, the Boise State U model (of whom by the way we still have a 3 W's vs 2 L's all time series lead) that would mean Top 25 ranked Mean Green football teams that would be playing in bowl games; who knows, maybe even a BCS bowl. If we're ranked anywhere from #75, #76 and higher going to bowl games then we have not improved our program or product from the Sun Belt era; of course, anything would be an improvement at this point but why not go for all the gusto when we hit our winning cycles stride once again? GMG!

If ever a college athletic program needed a gamble to pay off I think we all know which athletic program that would be.

Well said, ragpicker.

Damn the dastardly rich! (Oh wait a minute, only ones I ever worked for were actually rich so don't damn them too hard or future SSI benefit checks may not be as large as they would have been otherwise). Also, talking about the NCAA rich.....Won't Southern Miss get a $1 million pay day for playing in Lincoln, Nebraska this Fall and be able to pay off a 1 year HFC's salary with that money, too)? Rich can't be too bad since UNT has also benefitted with some nice pay days, too, from the likes of LSU, Alabama, Texas. etc, etc, etc.. Lets just put all 131 (?) NCAA FBS schools in one pool and make them all equal. Of course, there would be no real incentive to produce an annual national championship with this ingenious and new idea--just make all schools completely equal and that whether they are or not. Furthermore.....the NCAA can award each of the 131 FBS schools a nicely framed national championship certificate no matter how pathetic some of those schools records will be annually. That way we don't have to make those who cannot compete feel so badly about their place in the NCAA world and (for the most part) take any incentives away from that group to improve their lot in NCAA life. Now isn't that really the fair thing to do for all the NCAA unfortunates? Also, to muddy up the waters even more, just make them hate all of the NCAA success stories. Now wait a minute....might we even at the NCAA level be fliriting too close to something we used to call communism; you know, another word we cannot use in our society any longer without being called a real mean'ie? _____________________________________________________________ Recruiting? If we can't beat em' at their game----just join them at their game; something many of us sorta' wished we'd been aiming toward the last 30 years but fact is.........it is still not too late for North Texas IMHO.

Masters of what ? Debators? By the way, CK, your next very important eye exam is this FRIDAY, 12 Noon ! ! (Report to Lenscrafters, Brazos Mall, Lake Jackson, TX--couldn't find one closer since all near the UH campus & beyond are (for whatever reasons) booked for the next 6 months non-stop). What's goin' on over there in Cougar Country anyhow?

"...could spell the end of the big east and be to our benefit?" Don't know what that benefit would be or what you had in mind, outoftown, but if we're talking the SMU's the UH's, the Memphis, etc, getting in bed with North Texas conference-wise lets once again be brutally realistic & try to understand that they no more want to be with UNT than we want to align our school with former Southland Conference schools. Now had all of our favorite school in Denton, Texas, America, the last 30 plus year only tried to go another direction than trying to fit a 1-AA (FCS) square peg program into a 1-A (FBS) round hole kind of program with those we kept hiring decade after decade and just kept on retaining that adminstrative group (none of whom could ever get jobs at the next level) then this whole scenario for North Texas with the aforementioned Big East (former CUSA) schools might be different today. We just have to bloom where planted but who is to say that will be all so terrible? This excerpt below from a Tulsa U alum from his post on www.insidetulsasports.com : "TU is what it is a small private school, stuck in the midwest Competing against Big 12/SEC schools 4 pr & recruits Nat'lly? @ TU's level , nBmeek or NConf USA, no one cares. Win & win Big in ur subAQ conf that'll get u the pub u need. otherwise, its a wash nationally, Locally, I doubt u see much drop in support & attendance IF any @ all. I Guarantee N Tex/UTSA/La Tech will bring more fans to games here than than Houston/SMU/Tulane ever did. NConf USA offers all 4 major Texas TV/Recruiting markets N Tex/UTSA/L Tech already have better fan support & more up side than Houston/SMU/Tulane." GMG!

Simple Simon's Over-Simplified Plan Says: Out of 36,000 UNT Students can we get...............................................................................................................................8,000 fans? Out of 110,000 Denton citizens can we get...........................................................................................................................4,000 fans? Out of another 600,000 plus Denton County'ites most living within 30-35 minutes from Apogee can we get.....................10,000 mostly new fans? Out of over 200,000 UNT alum in DFW can we get.............................................................................................................10,000 mostly new fans many of whom never attended Mean Green games as UNT students? For the Eagle Wing Section for Familys of 4, free pizza, cola etc, can we get.......................................................................3,000 fans? ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ The above totals 35,000 fans for Game Day at Apogee Stadium which would mean Standing Room Only which would probably pi$$ off the Denton Fire Marshall............so be it. Might shooting for goals from all our various UNT constituencies such as those listed above at least be a worthy beginning point for a marketing program which has goals of producing many more new fans instead of the same old familiar faces and continued average crowds of 16-18,000 in a 31,000 seat football palace like Apogee Stadium? CUSA membership and what we will witness (and be more than duly impressed) with many of our new conference-mates who have "lights out" marketing programs that sells many tickets (with waiting lists for future sales) will ultimately be the judge and jury for what we've been doing at North Texas--even at a Sun Belt Conference level the last 10 or so years. Hope we have one helluva' turnaound year in all aspects of our athletic program of whom I think many running the show are truly nice folk, but some of us also remember what ex MLB player/manager Leo Durocher once said about nice guys, too, now don't we? GMG! Of course I never saw Leo "D" play baseball, but I did witness him as manager in the Astrodome back in the day.

There are a thousand things to do in the DFW Metroplex on any given Game Day Saturday at Apogee Stadium and is the reason why a "UTSA'esque" or "Mustang-Mania" type of marketing program should be invested in and that in seasons we think we are going to be pretty darn good and then those we are not. We really have no other choice at North Texas but I don't think present crowd understands this or if they do they just don't want to do more than the usual annual staple of Parents Day, Homecoming and other regular marketing promos we have had forever none of which seem to have filled either Fouts or Apogee yet. We have so many plusses by our DFW location but we just have to start taking advantange of that by doing the things that will get the masses out on Game Day. Our present UNT constituency gives us a tremendous start if we could just find a way to start gettting Denton County newcomers to Apogee. Lest we forget, many of our UNT alums who are young parents have Soccer Day Saturdays on Mean Green Game Day, too, so what group and what marketing plans can replace that very large group because their kids are going to (understandably) come first over any home game at Apogee Stadium. The DFW Metroplex will in the next decade probably have close to 10 million citizens and UNT just cannot keep forever drawing 16-18,000 fans per home game since we were doing the 16K averages close to 40 years ago with a much smaller UNT constituency. At some point with the right "Mean Green Newcomers" program this thing just has to start sky-rocketing at the turnstiles and I honest to goodness think it will with the right plans in place, but we have to do more than Freshmen Orientations, Parents Days, Homecoming, Seniors Last Game promos to do all this IMHO. GMG!

Paranoia you say? Below are schools that North Texas were once on the same level or even ahead--many of whom we were even in the same conference. (1) Houston (2) Memphis (3) Louisville (4) ECU (5) Southern Miss (6) Cincinatti (7) South Florida (8) Central Florida (9) Tulsa (10) Boise State (11) UTSA (jury still out on this one albeit they are kicking our A$$ in marketing & at the turnstiles) (12) TSU-SM (Some of us Baby Boomers and older long ago learned to say.........never say never. (13) Who did I leave out? Isn't this more than enough for us and do our present UNT Board of Regents even know the history on this subject as it relates to our school? Anyone want to take a few bets on that one? GMG!

6 & 5 and a bowl game and that based on elgible transfers and JUCO's with some already developed talent. We just need to start a string of winning seasons...no roller coaster ride football seasons. GMG!

You really spend way too much time over here being an ass, GL2Greatness. How many Pampers has your mommy had to change on you today while on that subject? Must have probably taken you all of an hour to spell all those words (correctly) and in color to boot, but to to get down to the subject at hand and to quote Deep Green's post on this thread......"its only taken them 10 years for them to get going on this" (or something to that affect). Some thought that North Texas' CUSA membership would put a very high-powered microscope on what we've had going on up there for what has now turned into many years and it seems that microscope has already begun its magnification process. Albeit CUSA is a shadow of its former self, it will still be a better deal for North Texas with trips to Houston every other year with more close-in rivals who will have a several thousand traveling fans in many cases--that part will make Game Days at Apogee even more special. The Big East will become old hat in about 2 years, UCONN at SMU will draw about 5,000 (but reported as 18-22,000) and some of those "EX" CUSA schools will say under their respective breaths and damn sure..............NEVER FOR PUBLICATION............"what in the hell have we done here while we keep beating up on each other in football and schools from CUSA, the MWC, etc, keep sending their champion to a BCS Bowl game?" For starters why not shoot for the moon (hell, we're North Texas) and hire the entire UTSA marketing staff to duplicate what a 3 year old start-up program has done in only.........3 years and what our present staff just let out a big yawn to suggest that we will finally start doing? And then just tell that new UNT athletics marketing staff, uh, THIS!.........."we don't care what they say we cannot do in "Little D" or how we've always done it up here so just put that garbage thinking in File 13 or your notebook's Recycle Bin but THIS IS WHAT WE WANT YOU TO DO INSTEAD.....DO WHATEVER IT TAKES (and legal) among our 700,000 plus Denton County'ites to insure that there are 31,000 fans at Apogee Stadium every Game Day weekend in Denton---nothing less than 31,000." (Anyone want to wager now that most of the monies for most the salaries for such a new staff could be found from some (slackers) on the present staff by doing what Dirty Harry said at a political rally last Summer when he said........"if they're not doing their jobs..........you have to let em' go?" (Hey! It's a dog eat dog world out here where I live and I'd just bet it's the same in most of your work a day worlds, too, yet............no one ever came up to me and said..........."Hey PMG, we owe you a lifetime job whether you produce at that job or not." We have some who long ago retired in Denton that are still on the UNT payroll and that would be obvious to those who dare put down the green Kool'ade long enough to admit what even a novice not associated with North Texas would be able to see. I also realize social climbing, some semblance of status and campus politics is important to some on this forum inasmuch as their continued "no response/no demands" to the present group we have at UNT is merely feeding their fire to continue things as is. If UNT alums & Mean Green fans don't ask (or even demand) for a better product, then those at UNT will continue to feel no obligation to produce nothing more than the same ol' status quo; after all, that for years has continued to get some of them contract extensions and pay raises GMG! PS: I think Year 3 for Coach Mac's football program will be OK with 6 or so wins; I just don't know at what national ranking and that needs to be the "new normal" of our thinking process with Mean Green football because it certainly is at USM, La Tech and other outposts.

PMG, I appreciate you giving us the numbers to compare UNT and Denton from 40 years ago to today and it is staggering how much that city and county have grown, as well as the number of alums in the Metroplex. The problem, though, is that highlights even more that the overwhelming amount of people connected to this university (students, alumni, faculty, administration, BOR, Denton citizenry, and DFW media) seem to want UNT to either flounder as an athletic program or to have it completely go away. I still believe with all of my heart that if the student vote on Apogee and the athletics fee had been more publicized and gotten more play with the entire student body, then it would've been defeated, just like all of the previous efforts before it did. This place may have done more for athletics in the last deacde than it did for the previous 90 years combined, but its not becasue the majority of the UNT family wanted it to happen. They want music and arts and education first, atheltics last or completely cut. I just don't think you'll ever see the thinking of this NT Daily douche ever go away among the majority of the student body because North Texas and Denton have proven many times over that they prefer for that kind of thinking to prevail. The folks who move here from other places may like college football or college hoops, but the first thing they ever hear from the local citiznery, including the majority of UNT alumni or students is not to bother with it. If these people overwhelmingly hate athletics, then how can we ever expect that to change? Winning may be the cure, but winning in the 70s and in the 00s didn't do it for football attendance or support. Basketball success over the last decade has'nt even helped us achieve an average attendance of even close to 40% of capacity. It just seems to me that this is always going to be a tough road to go down. The town cares more about the Texas Longhorns than they do about North Texas. The Texas Rangers playoff game actually forces the AD to change the kickoff of a game because he KNOWS that the citizenry and student body care waaaayyyy more about them than they do about the NorthTexas Mean Green. Some of you, especially youself and other fans that have followed UNT sports for over 30 years, are amazing to me in your love for this place. I have followed us for the last 23 years. But sometimes, when I look back at all of this, it just makes me wonder how much more patient I'm gonna have to be to see this place produce a winner and fully support it beyond 15-20k in attendance for a top 30 sized school in the country in the middle of a football hotbed. ___________________________________________ Still it would have been interesting to see how different the last 30 plus years would have been had we had only put a string of winning football and basketball seasons together which among some of those wins (in football, specifically) would have been a handful of "W's" over a few Top 10 and/or Top 25 ranked schools a la ULM and La Tech.. That is how Boise State's program rose from the depths of where it had been. For North Texas, Conference-USA is going to really be a high powered microscope of what we have, where we've been and how far we have to go to be one of its premier Top 25 programs, such as Southern Miss, Tulsa and UH have been in recent years. We cannot afford to be the school that brings the competition level down to some of our prior levels (along with low rankings) that goes bowling since that was the Sun Belt way of doing things.. And a Sun Belt Conference which has yet to this day have a Top 25 ranked football school. I think expecations will be higher among our elect as a CUSA member and it is also a fair assumption to believe we will have more traveling fans coming to Apogee than in our entire past football history and that because of our new regional conference rivals--many of whom have large alumnus bodies in the DFW Metroplex alone. On Another Front: It blows me away how college football has caught on with future CUSA member ODU with almost 15,000 annual football season tickets being sold and a waiting list for others when they expand their stadium. Fact Check that with this link..............http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=380268 GMG!

Mostly agree with what you've posted above, UNTJim, but I will add some demographic differences of 2 different athletic eras at UNT. Fry Era (hired December, 1972, and then took Iowa U job in December, 1978). City of Denton...............39,000 pop. Denton County..............99,000 pop. North Texas Enr............17,000 DFW alums?................. No One Seemed To Know.............because we didn't have an established alumnus association nor did North Texas keep records on our graduates especailly during its "teachers college" era....one would attempt to organize after Fry came to Denton when it appeared that UNT wanted to try to play in the Big Leagues and do things the way Big Time schools did..........like have an alumnus association? Former UNT Prez J.C. Matthews was said to not be a proponent of a school having too influential of an alumnus base . NOTE: North Texas Prez' Jitter Nolen was as supportive as present UNT Prez' Lane Rawlins since he and UNT V.P. Roy Busby led the way to hire Fry after SMU had fired him following a 7 & 4 football season at SMU in 1972..................It was said that SMU alum Dick Davis (a teammate of Doak Walker) wanted Fry gone so guess what(?)...........he was............gone. Fry came to Denton after Rod Rust last team in 1972 was 0 and 11(?). AD/HFC Fry literally started from scratch at a much smaller North Texas of which many of our "teacher's college" crowd back then wanted football to be dropped. Fry was very much loathed by that group almost from Day One until the day he left Denton for the Big 10. _______________________________________________________________________________________________ Present Era At North Texas City of Denton.................120,000 Denton County................700,000 (and growing) UNT Enr..............................approx 36,500 Fall numbers DFW Alums........................one UNT publication said over 200,000 NT alums in the North Texas Metroplex. The home football attendance from the Fry Era which may have averaged 15-16,000 overall counting Texas Stadium games compared to the present just shows that our growth in attendance at present is not even close to being commensurate with our sky-rocketing growth of the last 20 plus years in the Greater Denton area. That to me is the biggest of all disappointments in every bit of this as it would only make sense that we would have more than progressed from the 15-16,000 per home game numbers which we were doing almost 40 years ago. Sorta' why some of us would really like to have a full blown "do whatever it takes to get new fans" marketing program to go after all the above constituency numbers. Yet our main failure to launch this present athletic program with the above "most impressive" constituency numbers is mostly because of our non-stop annual losing records in most all our revenue producing sports. All the new and new (older) facilities we've added at the Mean Green Village merely need winning teams in each of them and when that happens we will have the beginnings of a successful athletic program. Venues without winning teams are like having an Indy' 500 deluxe race car with one of us on this forum driving it next Indy' 500 Day this May. We all appreciate the work Chancelor Jackson, ex NT prex Battaille, present NT prez' Rawlins, the UNT students who passed the new football stadium referendum and AD Rick Villarreal have done to get all these venues in place but for all practical purposes, what were the real alternatives at North Texas if we didn't add them? To drop athletics, go down a level to NCAA FCS or even a lower NCAA level seems to me to have been those only options. GMG!

And we help ourselves with the people we hire and I'll say it one more time.........North Texas leaders and hiring aurthorities most my lifetime just do not do college athletics well at all. The W/L records of the last 30 years more than proves it. Just having a few bright spots along the way and in those past 30 years in today's NCAA is just not going to cut the mustard. We seem to have fewer and fewer reasons than any school at the NCAA FBS level to high 5 each over about as the years pile on. Probably not the best example here, but did La Tech turn their program around because they have a campus nestled nicely in the middle of a pretty pine trees forest in northeast Louisiana along with their nice Tier'ed ranking school? No, they turned it around with the people they hired through the years. How did UL-Monroe actually get to a point where they could beat a #8 ranked Arkansas Razorback football team last Fall (then almost beat the Auburn Tigers the next week); that is, such feats as those we can only see happening in Denton some time way out there in the sweet by and by. Still we have some resolve out of all this by our doing all this annual football recruiting some out there call the so-called....right way? God help us if we start doing it the wrong way. ULM (amazingly) faried quite well with the people they hired since it sure wasn't the monies of their bottom of the barrel athletic budget. The ULM assistant coaches who put together some pretty good and talented recruiting classes must have been working on food stamps as their salaries. Sadly, some of you are putting all your eggs in one basket with some presently employed at North Texas who won't give you the time of day the first 5 minutes they are off the UNT payroll. Why would they with the records their leadership has produced over a (more than generous) span of years? Casepoint: Last few decades, how many former UNT athletic employees have you ever seen come back to our campus with palm branches laid in their pathway by an admiring alumnus fan base because of the jobs they did while employed at North Texas? Accomplished BS'ers who can easily put em' over on college athletic novices usually only do one great thing with consistency and that is to............ bull shit even more and at North Texas to a much larger (sometimes even admiring) audience than it should be. Unless North Texas gets hiring authorities in the Hurley Admin. Bldg who will use the expertise of those that know what the hell they are doing we may find ourselves caught in another 30-40 years of walking in the NCAA wilderness. I do think Coach McCarney will have a good enough season next Fall to keep his job, but for the life of me, I am having deep problems with our school getting "Rivals 3 Star'd" into potentially future (or down the road) losing seasons and that by schools that should not be doing that to us; but namely one in San Marcos, Texas, whose HFC last I counted has been turned down twice by U of North Texas hiring authorities as far as him getting our job. Last count since he's been at TSU-SM, he's had around 16 Rivals 3 star recruits the last 2 recruiting seasons and say what you will by you who try to sugar coat all that we do, but that is going to pay off for Coach Fran pretty damn soon. Do we really want to be on their schedule when those 16 Rivals 3 star recruits of Coach Fran come to fruition? Sorry, but this old time NTSU alum is just not ready to watch another school go "Beep! Beep" past the Mean Green football program I knew as a student. GMG!

Big Fish in a Little Pond or...you know the rest. In football Tulsa would finish higher most Falls in CUSA than it would in the Big East (IMHO), but like GrayEagle posted it will probably be the basketball connection that makes them want to change conference addresses. For less than or close to $2 million per year Big East TV rights I'd bet 2 or 3 schools wish they hadn't jumped the gun so fast. Non revenue men and women's sports teams from schools who jumped ship to the new B.E. are going to get a bit expensive in the travel expenditures part of all their respective school's athletic budgets. For our Greatest Generation an oldie from the past...(and remember when albums back in that day merely had slide-on paper jackets)? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIwQ3sJQO1A