PlummMeanGreen

So what criteria do the Super Conference Big Boys (SCBB's) use to keep G5 schools who've had great turnstile and attendance numbers (like East Carolina for one example) out of their elite little country club? What if about 10 schools like East Carolina from the G5 who meet the same numbers that many of the Super Conference's lower tier schools meet class action the hell out of the NCAA's version of We Rich--Yo' Po'? (insert extremely Deep South accent with that). So do our new J. Paul Getty's of the NCAA stick a dagger straight thru Cinderella's heart and most piously say...."so sorry, but 25 to 50 years ago yall missed your "Big Boy" chance?" The Super Conference Big Boys would allow Baylor (who doesn't always have OOC sellouts or Big 12 sellouts for that matter); anyway, why would Baylor or similar schools get to piggy back off the truly Super Conference Big Boys and stay while other schools that have moved their product dramatically forward or maybe even past the Baylors, TCU's, Wake Forest, etc, are ostracized and not invited to the Big Ball? Me'thinks the Super Conference Country Club crowd may have to keep some pretty good lawyers on hand who will be able to justify to a high court why lower division schools get to stay elite while a select group of G5 schools are not allowed in. Speaking of the legal system, one has to wonder how all this would actually play out in the American courtroom because with all the mega-millions involved don't dare think that that would not be an eventual destination. Perhaps this is merely nothing else than the SCBB's athletic directors wanting more revenues for their pet projects (since G5 schools annual $1-2 million each must completing be preventing that from happening)? (insert sarcasm). Also, might the lower division SCBB AD's with this separation from many (G5) schools doing just as well at the gate see a chance (short term as it may be) to compete with the UT's, the Alabama's, the USC's, etc., for much larger salaries for "THEIR" own head football coaches in this exclusively new NCAA club? How soon does this new NCAA Big Dog start chasing its own tail as it seeks out a trail to find those illusive Big Buck$? MIght it even surprise the Super Conference Big Boys that all the G5 conference commissioners are a bunch of (well meaning) teddy bears and have no problem with the P5 getting all the legislation they want including stipends, too? Heck, the G5 group might even help the P5 get the very desires of their heart compared to lower NCAA levels who are the ones who have actually been the very ones who've kept them from getting specific legislation in the past. So all and all, what kind of threat are 5 non AQ (or G5) conferences in the scheme of future things who would still get a bowl buster kind of destination each Fall? Seems allowing 5 non-P5 conferences vying for 1 BCS bowl would not be so big a sacrifice, would it? In closing, don't we all really hate to see this quasi-class warfare going on in the once so innocent and amateur-standing NCAA of years gone by? Would all this eventually boil down to about 10-15 NCAA schools with mega-athletic budgets going their own way, too? What about the college football fans of all 50 states--not just a hardy handful? Sometimes the craving of even more money and to almost do anything to get it can create more harm than good. The NCAA Big Boys may be the latest in a growing line in our present Amercian society to prove that theory. Just my .02. GMG!

Why do we have to kick our own players in the teeth with some of these discussions? Do any of you get kicked in the teeth at your own jobs by (basically) outsiders? I wish Scotty Young well at La Tech. Don't we want BB to do well, too? Of course we do. Yet we need some school (like La Tech did last Fall) in CUSA to get back to Top 25 rankings status-- I hope that would be us. Plus we don't need CUSA schools to have "off years" so we can have an "on" year. That recipe does not have Top 25 rankings in the mix at all. GMG!

On this matter just wait and see what happens--not really much we can do other than beat it like a dead horse on GMG.com (which we will do). You might be surprised how mostly nothing but a few tweaks would really ever happen, anyway. It is my take that the general public does not want an NFL 2.0 with their P5 schools at all and they don't want P5 players on full scholarships running the show on what will or will not happen, either. The real losers if any of this would actually happen might eventually be the 2'nd division schools in the P5 conferences (or those schools who will eventually gravitate to that level) like TCU, Wake Forest, Duke, Iowa State, etc, etc, once they see they, too, are not wanted by the real Big Boys, too. This greed really has no end if you think about it. I'm not so sure the G5 conferences are the P5's main problem. Seems it's more the NCAA Division-IIIIIII schools who keep them from having their way. I would hope the G5 group have hired their consultant(s) to make this fact known to those who need to know it; that is, the P5 group, of course. GMG!

More focus on Brelan "take a powder and come back strong" Chancellor (it's a Baby Boomer thing from a 1960'esque commercial) anyhow............... more focus on Mr. Chancellor takes the focus off others who could suddenly become even more valuable once CUSA play begins. We are not so much a juggernaut (yet) that we won't need such diversions. Those road games scare the hell out of me, quite frankly. GMG!

You are making me have to double up on my anxiety meds on that one, Mean_Green09! LOL!

Apogee is too darn special (and a quite beautiful "Lady") to have such "plain Jane" end zones. Just wonder how much for it to be done? GMG!

Ammended 2:52 PM Since we have so many more of our games being televised as a CUSA member is it time to have both of Apogee's end zones to be spruced up? (Watching a re-play of Baylor/ULM at Floyd Casey Stadium with the solid gold end zones with BAYLOR inside that is the inspiration although I know this would probably be listed as a low priority item at the moment--but this is more for the TV cameras than those of our fans inside the stadium. End zone art(?) seems to be a new trend in the NCAA and albeit we have a world class, LEEDS Platinum certified Taj Mahal of an on-campus college football stadium, for our numerous TV viewing audiences maybe a more colorful end zones would now be in order? My post is not allowing a "close up" pic of the Apogee end zones to be posted for whatever reason--maybe one of you can post such a pic? If not, my signature of Apogee should suffice.. GMG!

Hope you had a great day! PMG

I'm not much of a fan of comparing scores or what lop-sided scores can do to a team (sometimes) and on that subject I will go back to our own football history. In 1975 (hear we go again) but get this. That season we got shellacked early in our schedule by Oklahoma State something to the tune of 61 to 7... .....then we beat the UH Coogs the year before they entered the SWC (going to the Cotton Bowl in their Year 1) 28 to 0 at Texas Stadium. ......finally.......... Coach Fry and his rag-tag Texans (a media description of his team) made a little trip to Knoxville, Tennessee, and with his 3'rd string QB they'd win the game and all come home to a hero's welcome at Love Field with the Dallas Times Herald giving our team and our fans a nice Sunday AM front page headline and color photo. It was one for the books that got much state-wide, regional and even national attention. (Tennessee finished 6 & 5 the year we beat them so they were not chopped liver; and by today's standards both Tennessee and North Texas would have been bowl teams). Coach Mac is on schedule to do the same with this Mean Green football program, too. In Year 1 right after his hiring many of us said....Year 3 for Coach Mac to start making hay with this program....I think we'd all stand by that today. GMG!

Way to go, Brelan! This post has been promoted to an article

I know a bit of cyanide to go with the green koolade, but Gray Eagle (who has watched Mean Green football before Fouts Field was even built) has some viable concerns. I don't get the minus yards for our backs, either; especially since 2 of our OL were on Phil Steele's All CUSA team. Now Georgia might have had future 1'st round NFL draft choices on their entire defensive line which would cause negative yards but most likely not. We know how proud the 2 SEC broadcasters who kept repeating "the Dawgs obviously have been looking ahead to the LSU game all week long" but much of their homer'isms had to do with the fact that this was an SEC TV broadcast. We'll all know we have a good (most likely bowl bound) football team when these 2 things occur: (1) We win conference games on the road. (2) We play a game (home or on the road) when all our cylinders are completely out of kelter, but we still somehow win the game. Anyone remember another season last decade when the ball bounced our way almost every single time which the wins that resulted because Lady Luck was smiling on us gave us our 1'st bowl game in decades? Anyone remember the Miracle in the Desert out at Las Cruces, New Mexico, too? Well, we may need to pull 1 or 2 of those miracles out of our hat in CUSA for us to go where we want to go; that is, to a bowl game game with 6 or 7 wins. GMG!

I feel uncomfortable with some of this thread. We are a pluralistic society and a pluralistic football team last I checked. GMG!

Yall go get em' Spaceraider! GMG!

Excepting for maybe 1 or 2 HSO's (not in black bold) the truth speaks and UNT90 is the bearer of this truth, I don't think Coach Mac will allow this team to buy into DDOMPPC or...................dangerous deception of media praise press clippings; especially when those clippings will suddenly make our school become "the Target" of all our CUSA opponents who want to make this same media eat their words. We are 2 & 2 so lets keep the same perspective that Coach Dan McCarney will have. He said in his post game (and I liberally paraphrase....."our players ought to feel bad about losing this one" We cannot become the NCAA FBS school who makes such big deals out of the so called moral victory. Since 1973, I've lost count of those. Coach Mac wants to build on what happened yesterday and that to me is the best thing we can do.

Look at the below 1988 North Texas football schedule and see who we beat, who we all but beat (UT-Austin), but then got beat by schools who should not have beaten us at all. In fact, look how we we walked thru near half the Southwest Conference in 1988 only to later get beat by schools who were not quite as impressed with our newspaper clippings thus making us a target for some of that group. The more publicity our team gets the bigger a target we will become--its happened before. Yet that hasn't been a problem we've had for awhile now.. We've seen high hopes and promise turn to not as promising toward season's end. Coach Mac could be the kind of coach who prevents that from happening and starting at Tulane U will be a great place to start. Not that we're something special yet although maybe we're getting closer to that, but how many times thru the years how we've seen how many schools at our level or conference (who we sometimes think are cup cakes) seem to find one of their best games against North Texas ? ? ? ? ? I expect this to happen at Tulane and La Tech, Moral of This Thread: One CUSA game at at time, folks. 1988 Mean Green Football Schedule---"a most interesting year." Red indicates losses at Texas Tech 29 - 24 W Sep 3, 1988 vs Arkansas State 49 - 21 W Sep 17, 1988 at Texas 24 - 27 L Sep 24, 1988 vs Eastern Washington 51 - 0 W Oct 1, 1988 vs Louisiana - Monroe 26 - 23 W Oct 8, 1988 vs McNeese State 37 - 0 W Oct 15, 1988 at Sam Houston State 24 - 3 W Oct 22, 1988 at Stephen F. Austin State 10 - 17 L Oct 29, 1988 vs Northwestern State .......those amazing Louisiana schools who seem to always find these kind of wins they're not supposed to win--ask TCU who would play "AND LOSE" to Northwestern St. in Coach Patterson's 1st year in Cowtown; look at La Tech, ie, "the Giant-Slayer," too). Will they ever sell us their G-S formula? I didn't think so. 17 - 25 L Nov 5, 1988 at Texas State 30 - 10 W Nov 12, 1988 at Rice 33 - 17 W Nov 19, 1988 1988-89 FCS Championship - First Round at Marshall 0 - 7 L Nov 26, 1988

I'm a greenblooded Texas sumbich' like many of you....I admit it. Back when I was a younger UNT alum I used to kick SMU as much as I could and now I wish I could walk most of those comments back. (Something weird just seems to happen to you when you hit 60 years of age). But I'll tell you what......... when I watched this singing of Varsity by the late Don Meredith my adam's apple got all tightened up and my eyes welled up, too. This: SMU gave us a 10 game home and home series which will give both schools a realistic chance to finally start a DFW area rivalry. I don't think they had to especially do that at all but still..............they did. V-A-R-S-I-T-Y sung by one who was part of many of our's Texas culture; one that many of us loved as if he was an uncle or a even a 1'st cousin; one who praised the Mean Joe Greene North Texas team on a Monday Night Football telecast and said something to the effect of "Shore' glad my SMU team didn't have to play them." This is V-A-R-S-I-T-Y and sung by the late, great Don Meredith of SMU.

Just curious but what are UNT's projected enrollment numbers in the future as compared to all others projections (besides UT-Austin and TAMU). We know our present enrollment before the 12 day sit in class of which after that day they become official, but is there a link of the unofficial numbers of the other Texas public universities beside the 2 mentioned at the top? GMG!

Well, it is a "hit" with us and hopefully some Texas HS blue chip recruits who are as impressed. http://www.meangreensports.com/beyondthegreen/

As a former Cougar fan when I was a teenager, I do recall that it hasn't always been attendance gravy at the University of Houston, either; plus I've kept my eyes on the att. part of their Game Day boxscores thru the years, too. A Few Select Years of UH Cougar Football & Attendance Averages (note small number of home games some yrs and also keep in mind that UH has been able to schedule about 100% more former SWC schools & Big Time schools than North Texas, too). 1998..........5 games..........16,295 average 1999..........5 games..........20,003 average 2000..........4 games..........15, 795 average 2001..........6 games..........19,795 average (a dated article about past UH attendance but with a theme we can relate) UH Football Attendance To say that the University of Houston football program has a nagging attendance problem would be an understatement. For having an enrollment in excess of 33,000 students (the third-largest university in the state behind Texas and Texas A&M) and being located in the fourth-largest city in the United States, attendance at UH sporting events such as football simply sucks. Of the 117 schools currently playing division I-A football, Houston ranks towards the bottom in terms of attendance, with higher crowd numbers than a handful of schools, like Akron or Louisiana-Monore, but with game day crowds well below those of other urban public schools like Louisville or Memphis and nowhere near those of flagship state schools like Texas or Louisiana State. Many seasons, schools like Michigan or Tennessee will attract more fans to see a single game than the University of houston will attract in an entire season of five or six home games. Several reasons have been postulated for Houston's poor performance at the ticket office, such as the fact that Houston is a lousy, fair-weather sports town in general or the fact that the University of Houston has too many non-traditional, apathetic students in particular, and attendance-related laments are common on message boards such as Coogfans.com. The poor attendance is of serious concern, because fewer fans mean less revenue for an athletics department that is already facing serious budget shortfalls. What's the best way to increase attendance at UH football games? Several lengthy manifests have been written over the years on the various UH message boards about this subject, with solutions ranging from increasing the number of students living on campus to moving home games to Reliant Stadium to embarking on an extensive (and expensive) city-wide advertising blitz. This being a fair-weather sports town like Houston, however, the fact is that the best way to get fans to see your team play is to win. And lately, the Cougars just haven't been winning. The University of Houston football program has enjoyed only 9 non-losing seasons out of the last 20. During that time they have gone to only five bowl games (including last year's Fort Worth Bowl) and have not won any of them. The Coogs have not ended the season ranked in the Top 25 since 1990. They haven't beaten a ranked opponent at home since 1996 and haven't beaten a ranked opponent on the road since 1984. Quite simply, there hasn't been much about UH football for local fans to get excited about over the last two decades. Interest did pick up and attendance did briefly increase during the short-lived run-and-shoot days of the late 80s, but during the 1990s the program stagnated once again, the losses mounted and the crowds disappeared. Clearly, if this program is to survive, something has to change. __________________________________________________ North Texas attendance problems can be fixed, but we just have to do a few things different; and it will take the entire UNT constituency to fix it. Not one of our constituencies can single-handedly fix it the way we all want it fixed as to stay fixed. GMG!

I know that 8 years of losing begats much of what we post on this message board. I've contributed enough of my own tommyrot on GMG.com of which many of those I wish I could walk back, but are there not several things which suggests we are moving forward? (1) .Apogee Stadium? I mean, uh....WOW! I looked on it with amazement just last Game Day. (2) All the new improvements at the Super Pit (with more planned as I understand it---maybe even a new sound system), (3) Might even the Pedestrian Bridge (to some extent) count, too, since it connects all the good things happening at the Mean Green Village to the rest of campus (and to east Denton for that matter)? (4) A new varsity baseball team and stadium on the way with half the monies already raised for that new stadium; (5) I know this is not good enough for some, but in only Year 3 considering so few players on scholarships what Coach Mac is doing with this team even Dave Campbell's staff are now observing AND admiring; for certain, the jury is still out for the balance of the 2013 season but I think even the most Negative Neds among us were smiling post Ball State game results; (6) A new luxury hotel and convention center not planned for anywhere else except inside the Mean Green Village right next to Apogee Stadium? Where else among the entire G5 is this kind of stuff happening now? (7) ?????.......................you name the ones I've left out because I bet I have. Yes, the budget probably needs more tweaking since what we have (to quote another) is hardly set in stone, but will not "OUR" alma mater soon be catapulted to the upper half of CUSA schools (even over some of its charter members) when that would not have been the case if Lane Rawlins, Rick Villarreal and the BOR's hadn't put their heads together with what I think will be the first of many meetings on the UNT Athletic budget? Just look at our last 25 to 30 years concerning MG athletics and tell me the present group are not making positive headway as to change all those years which had so few bright spots and which BTW..............they had nothing to do with since most were no where close to Denton during this timeline? Other side of that coin is.................most of us were all here. Yes, we want more but from all indications we are going to get more but probably not in the timeline we would all like (as in yesterday); but at least they are giving all this the good ol' college try and we are seeing more results now than for most of the last 25 or 30 years (basically my entire adult years post my UNT graduation) and once again I start with the very proof of what I am posting here as seen below in the video:

It is my opinion that all our UNT lettermen are very special people. They should be celebrated as such more than I think we actually do celebrate them as alums and fans. Example? Mean Joe Greene we are seeing more of at each home game these days. If there were ever an Ambassador for the Mean Green Joe is that, but we have many others, too, who are our special Ambassadors. Why not a Game Day badge for all our UNT lettermen to wear at Apogee and something like this on a "2 line" badge: Official Mean Green Ambassador ...JOHN DOE--Letterman, 61-63 I saw one of our past lettermen at the club buffet the other day at the Ball State game and I could not think of his name because I just wanted to tell him........"we appreciate you and what you have done for our school and hope all is going well for you--nothing more/nothing less. I didn't know his name and I didn't really want him to know that I didn't know it so I said nothing. I know...kinda' silly. These "Ambassador" badges need to have an "official" first class appearance to them and they can all be kept on a table for North Texas lettermen to pick theirs up pre-game and then return post game. Thoughts or any variations on this? GMG!

Few of you know this but some of Vito's biggest critics on this board have (to the person) received visits from his Sicilian cousin, Guido. Just sayin'... Moral of Story? Don't muck with Vito! Have A Nice Day Now, Ya' Hear! BEAT THE HELL OUT OF GEORGIA! And as my ol' Texas HS football coach the late Harold Humber used to say: THEY PUT THEIR PANTS ON THE SAME WAY YOU DO !

The smaller they want to make this project may insure that more conventions or shows will also be going elsewhere, too? And no, once finished, it will never challenge the large USA cities for the National Home Builders Show or others similar which have to have Big City mega-convention venue sites for their gatherings, but don't start whittling ours away till you have nothing but a fancy (yet smaller) hotel with a place all the Denton County Cub Scout troops would have a nice place to meet, either. Yes, I'm sure a budget thing with all this, but just maybe wait till you can afford the larger version of this hotel and convention center before you whittle away more possible outside business or conventions coming to Denton and, uh, UNT just to save a few bucks. Someone once said it just takes a little extra effort to be 1'st class. Sometimes a few in many of our's former home town of Denton act like the local population and even local college enrollments are going to somehow shrink; that is, instead of going along with the projected numbers that real, bonafide experts who do actual studies on a city, county or even universities (TX Higher Ed Coord. Bolard, Austin) indicate will be a bright future of most visible growth. So maybe this should be a clear message to a hardy handful making all the big decisions up there that Denton, UNT and TWU should really be planning for this projected growth and then to build their future venues to accommodate it. GMG!

Then again drex in your sports promotions mind mode it might also be an opp to get more fans at Apogee. Yet knowing you as long as I have I'd bet you already thought of that angle already. GMG! PS: I feel we will have more parking by that time anyhow and how much extra parking would the Hotel/Convention Center provide, too? The Pedestrian Bridge will probably be our salvation on this whole project as far as parking access goes.