yyz28

The Apple iPhone. GOD PROBABLY HAS ONE.

No federal taxes are paid on the sale of a new car. This is a fact. ...now, if the company selling the car eventually shows a profit, they may have to pay corporate income tax on it. How many dealers and car manufacturers are in the black in this country? ...virtually none. You have to be in the black to owe ANY federal income tax as a business. ...and the article you posted only bolsters my point - Here are a few of my favorite excerpts - This backs up my earlier claim that a good deal of the benefit dealers have seen are being eaten up while the finance the difference not paid yet by the government and are now paying daily interest on money they should already have. So, the program hasn't actually changed anything - it was a little jump in activity, but no economic law has been changed here. The economy isn't doing better, nor is the industry after this program. Oh, goody. So, action impacting private industry by the government has now raised the price of the new car I need to buy my family, and since I didn't qualify for cash for clunkers, I now have to pay MORE for the car I need to buy for my family, in ADDITION to having funded the program from my tax dollars. Oh, yeah... This is MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH better. Well, the showroom spike is temporary, as shown above, and the recalled workers and added shifts were planned by GM (Ford never shut down any plants they are reopening, Chrysler isn't reopening any of theirs) as they came out of the planned summer shutdown that was setup BEFORE Cash for Clunkers or the Government takeover of GM. The factories that had been idle coming back to life have ABSOLUETLY ZERO to do with Cash For Clukers, which makes the following statement from the Obama administration an all out lie: JD, YOU said 42,000 new jobs were generated. This article says "created or saved" ("saved jobs" is my new favorite unmesurable metric, by the way...) not generated. There is a big diffrence. ...and based on the fact that the GM plants were reopening anyways, the statement you based your opinion on is a bold faced lie. You were lied to on this one, my friend. ...and the kicker, in my opinion. Yup... the program is going to cost more to run than estimated. NO!! A GOVERNMENT Bureaucracy cost more to run than estimated?!?!?!? HOLY CRAP MARTHA, THERE'S SOMETHIN' NEW!!! This is the biggest no crap statement of the entire article. ...EVERY government program costs more to administer than estimated. ...Just like the costs of this healthcare debacle we're being fed are a load of crap, so too was the cost of Cash for Clunkers. Well, never fear, fellow americans. They stopped the program at 2.88 Billion dollars. So the Federal Government has 220 MILLION of your tax dollars left over to pay a few employees to write a few checks to some dealers. WHEW! I'm glad we stopped before we got to the 3 Billion budgeted... or was it 1 Billion budgeted? Who can keep track? Sorry guys, this one was a flop. It's OK to admit something the guy you voted for has EPIC FAIL written all over it. No Child left Behind - Fail. Medicare Prescription Drug Program - Fail. See... I CAN DO IT!!! You try. C'mon, it won't hurt.

OH NO!!! NOT HANS BRRIX!!

Damn, man. Let's get personal, why don't we? Fail.

Which part isn't true, JD? Taxes paid on the trade in when it was originally purchased went to the State and Local governments as well in terms of the sales tax. No new federal income has been created by this program. ...the value WOULD be in getting these old cars off the street had the program seen old beat up pick-up trucks used as daily drivers turned in for honda civics and toyota prius' to be new daily drivers, but this isn't the case. The statistics of the program have shown that a large number of cars being traded in are rarely driven 3rd cars that will be replaced by often driven daily drivers. The net impact will be minimal if any in terms of fuel consumption or "greenhouse" emissions.

Tax dollars into local, state and federal coffers are not a stimulus. They do not stimulate the economy in any way shape or form. I love your retort, however. It's funny. I blew away your entire point, and then you deflect with yet a further misunderstanding of the actual issue. Can't find anything about Toyota, but the GM plant (and it's only one, not two) that was idled for the summer was planned to be reopened before this program hit. ...and it didn't open ANY earlier than slated before the shut down. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=112073669 This is NOT a case of mismanagement on the part of Sam Packs or any of the dealers. This was a nationwide issue and contiues to be, though finally some of the checks are coming in. THe dealers were filling out the paperwork properly and submitting it as required by the program. The GOVERNMENT was not reimbursing in a timely manner, causing many dealers to have to finance millions in the interum, costing them a good deal of interest - these increase costs will cut greatly into any benefit the delears saw as a result of the program. It is the Government Bureaucracy (not Obama himself) that can't handle the program. it is the same type of Government Bureaucracy that is being proposed run healthcare. The programs on Fox represented as news are perfectly fair and present the facts. The programs on Fox that are represented as opinion programs (like, the entire primetime lineup) is, quite true, distinctively right wing. ...just like the opinion programs on MSNBC, CNBC, NBC, ABC, CNN, CBS and PBS are distinctively left wing. One network vs. seven, yet ya'll still can't stand it. ...I watch 'em all, by the way, I like to see all sides of the story, but I've noticed that the actual NEWS stories and programs on Fox differ little from those on other networks. ...what this has to do with this program and thread, I'm not quite sure. ...and LOTS of folks throw up all over themselves with everything this administration puts out, and for good reason. The program was ended because it was mismanaged and wasn't meeting the goals set forth in the program. It was also not allowed to run its course, due to the issues with the program. It was an abject failure, from top to bottom, by almost any measure. It cost more than it generated. It wasn't managed by the bureaucracy worth a flip. The impact on emissions based on what was traded and bought is virtually non-existant. It didn't help the people it was aimed at, who couldn't get car loans anyways. It was a failure, from beginning to end. It was a shift of tax dollars, nothing more, nothing less.

The dealers haven't been paid, but you can rest assured the government will get theirs. The "TAX" on the sale is going to go to.... SURVEY SAYS.... THE LOCAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS, correct. The federal government gets no sales tax from the sale of the car, so your first $1,500 has now gone out the window. The cars being sold were already made, so nobody is working to build this inventory. In fact, all of the major car companies are trying to shrink their inventories and have cut production. This program is helping to empty the lots, but the inventory won't be replaced one for one. No jobs saved as a result. The "successful, Period." program is now being ended because it can't be managed. Sam Pack's group of dealers, as one example, is currently in the hole to the tune of 4.5 Million dollars, and the governement hasn't paid any of the rebates yet. The program is a FAILURE, which is why it is being cancelled. It isn't being properly managed, and it surely isn't funded by the tax revenue it generates. Typing or in person, your debate skills are lacking as you don't have the facts. If the best you can do is throw down is "Fox regurgitates", then I'm not worried about your debate abilities in person.

One can be against the healthcare reform that has been proposed and think that woman is over the top. Let's not pretend that every idiot extremist on one side or the other is representitive of the entire group. I no more think the Union thugs who attacked the anti health care speaker at the St. Louis meeting last week any more represents those of you who want this plan any more than this moron woman should be consiered by anyone to represent those of us who don't agree with it. ..."arguing with you would be like arguing with a dining room table - I have no interest in it" is an interesting quote, espeically coming from eeally.

We prove that the program has not met any of it's own stated goals, yet you call it a success. You're unable to argue how the progam is constitutional, yet you call it a success. You can't debate the point, you can only make the statement "cash for clunkers is a huge success......period" without a single fact to back it up. ...and THEN you're so bad at arguing your point, the best thing you can do is whip Bush back out, because that's the only tired ticket you've got left. It's sorta sad really. Oh, well...

Well, while I agree with the crux of the article, the writer and editor need to check their facts. The Cadillac SRX is NOWHERE NEAR 6000 lbs. It is a light weight 2 row crossover. The Esclade barely tips the scales at 6000 LBS, much less the SRX. ...just sayin.

The racial portion of this is irrlevant to me. Did they commit a crime? If yes, go to jail. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Easy softball.

I wish he were wearing silver and blue... ...but seeing him in Green sorta makes me smile! GREAT catch.

To me the wild card in all of this is has the locker room problems gone away. If the players and coaching staff are on the same page, there is no reason we shouldn't be a MUCH better team. ...We won't really know until the end of the first one. Win or lose, I'll feel great if it looked like a team (the whole team) who was on the same page and never lost the fight. ...but if it is a bunch of guys going through the motions like most of last year looked, it'll be another long season.

Nobody expected us to be anything the year we won our first 'Belt title either. It's hard not to get excited.

There are enough folks who want the ability to discuss politics, it should not be banned. Just create a seperate forurm for it (The Pit of Dispair) and just make it clear that if you go in there it is unmoderated (or moderated by someone other than you guys who don't want to deal with it) and make the rules simple - NO PERSONAL ATTACKS, ANYTHING ELSE GOES ...and don't get your feelings hurt. Make people get authorized to enter. This solves all the problem. Gives the folks who want a political forum on this board what they want, and lets folks who don't want to see that stuff an easy way to ignore it. Best of both worlds.

I prefer Taco Bell. ...but Taco Bueno is also very good. In fact... BAD mexican food it better than GOOD most other types of food. Just sayin'. ...oh, and the football team will go .500 this year. (...just trying to make my post football related to keep John Denver off my back! )

First of all... that's what it should be called. "The PIT of Dispair" ...a play on our ever popular SuperPit. Second, I'd pay a buck or five, but to what end?

I totally agree with something like this... ...and then limit the access to those who want it. If you ask to come in here, don't get angry when someone hits a topic you don't like.

Thanks for the update Rick. Sounds like some progress is being made.

At least you're FAIR AND BALANCED!!! ...sorry. Had to. I agree with you, that this is their site to do with as they see fit, but I believe (and it appears many more do to) that the reaction was too severe. There are many points or solutions to be considered that don't include shutting down the forum. ...if in the end our objections fall on deaf ears, you're right. They have the freedom to do what they want with this forum, and the members have the freedom to accept it and use it for the now more limited scope it encompasses, go start their own site or just go away all together. ...but I don't feel that needs to be the choice at this point.

Road Games aren't in the budget this year. ...though if we make it to a bowl game, I'll be there.

Then it should have been dealt with via moderation, not via a punishment for all because of the actions of a few. I didn't do this. You didn't do this from what I can recall. Why are you and I being punished? If someone is not following the rules, then moderate them, don't destroy a forum for everyone else. I just think that asking people not to post such articles was "A" and closing down the forum was "Z". What happened to B-Y? ...that's my argument.

It wasn't intentional. Read the part of the post Rick highlighted. He's saying he agrees with it. Nobody was forced to go into that forum. Nobody was forced to click on a thread. Nobody was forced to read the threads. Nobody was forced to respond to the threads. I can't begin to express how much we all owe the folks who work hard to bring this site to us, because it is a debt those of us who love UNT and the Mean Green can never really repay. ..but I don't agree with the removal of this forum and there are alternatives to the solution implemented that don't ruin something that many folks really enjoyed.