untjim1995

How many games have we ever been over 25K for in the history of the stadium since it was added onto in 1994? I think 20K would be great.

Best positive--game is over with no more Big XII teams on the schedule and only one more BCS ass-kicking to take--albeit with a nice check. Other positives--no turnovers, decent running stats, some young guys got experience, SBC play is only about a month away Worst negative--Another season-opening ass-whipping that makes general fan/student look at us as an after-thought (again) Other negatives--The O-line couldn't keep pressure off of Vizza and the rest of the offense just fell flat, defensive line registered little to no pressure We knew that the lines were going to be troublesome, and when mixed with a BCS team (Greenminer alluded to this often leading up to this game), we all pretty much knew that we would have very little chance of competing. Tulsa, although not BCS, is still very good and will give us trouble because their offenses is great. With very little pressure from the defense, Tulsa will score a lot. The good news, though, is that Tulsa's defense is not great, and we will score some points. I think that we all get mad when a name team pounds us, but it is what normally happnes to the non-BCS teams on the road--not always, but normally. Lets see where we are when FIU and ULL come to Denton in October. If we are still having problems after that, then there will be cause for worry. Again, if we win 4 games this season (FIU, ULL, WKU, and another somewhere) that will double our wins from last year. Its gonna take awhile. It is just unfortunate that the stadium vote comes during this year. I fear what happens to this program if this vote goes south again.

Oh, come on--that was so three days ago!! Many folks may have already changed their minds!!

What does everyone think for this weekend's game against K-State? We have just over 2 days before kickoff.

It really bothers me when I hear people say that we should just be like these programs if we could start winning. Both K-State and South Florida had the luxury of already being a part of good conferences when they got their programs going in the right direction. With K-State, they literally needed to show their fans that they wanted to get better. It was so easy to get them whipped into a frenzy when they started winning in OOC as they got ready to play their Big 8 rivals. How easy could it be to get your program really growing fast if you always got Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Colorado to come to town when they were all ranked in the Top Ten at various times along the way? So showing success to their fandom was really all that was needed--they had monied alumni who loved their university. Our situation is just so different from them that to compare the two is not really fair. South Florida's situation was similar to Western Kentucky when they got their program rolling. USF was already in CUSA for all sports but football and when they got good they were doing it against teams that had name recognition. The conference realignment bug really hit them at the perfect time, too. The Big East was barely afloat, but continued to be a BCS conference, so getting a presence in Florida and giving those kids the chance to play for BCS bowl games made their situation almost 180 degrees from ours--the only way it could become comparable is if realignment brought UNT to the Big XII (don't hold your breath). South Florida's administration took advantage of their situation to maximize the potential to become what they have become--a very solid program that has big-time potential. This is what UNT leadership could have done back in the late 70s and early 80s. Instead, we went to I-AA and it has been our albatross ever since.

I would expect K-State to win this by 4+ TDs. They are just that much more talented. When Freeman is on, he is as talented a QB as you can find because of his size. KSU might not be great by Big XII standards but they are still loaded compared to where most of the non- AQ BCS schools are. I expect this one to get ugly as our lines just aren't ready for this kind of talent yet. If we were opening against a I-AA school or against an SBC team, we might be ok, but this is just a bad matchup. K-State wins this one something like 48-17. The more I read Fake Lonnie's stuff about scheduling, the more I tend to agree. We need to start off on a winning note before we get to these BCS road games.

Why is Tulsa such a winnable game for us? Is it because we are at home? That team is awfully good. I would actually rather be playing K-State at home this year than Tulsa. Tulsa has a good thing going right now in theri program and they look at games against UNT as a nice way to hammer a recruiting rival. Look at the history of the series--Tulsa has dominated against us. Right now, I can't see how we beat them, but hey, I'll drink the kool-aid and say that I hope I'm wrong.

With all due respect, if you think that now is the time for Dodge to beat KSU, Tulsa, or, especially, LSU, with two dilapidated lines, I think you are going to be disappointed. Realistically, he needs at least one more year to build up his program to a point that we can beat a team like KSU or Tulsa. If I am wrong, I will gladly proclaim how wrong I was. In my opinion, Dickey got run out of here because his gameplan was so basic that he lost winnable games against OOC teams like TCU, Arizona, Air Force, and Baylor by running draw plays on 3rd downs in the 4th quarter of games that we could have won if we had even given the offense a chance to succeed. And, then once the talent on his team dropped, his basic offense had no great defense to prop it up against SBC teams anymore. Most fans had more fun watching paint dry than watching his offense run the ball into the line every down. This was best illustrated during the overtime of the FIU game at home in 2006 that no one could win and also in Ft. Worth at the infamous "Throw the ball" game vs. TCU. Eventually, Dodge will get us back up to a point to compete against SBC teams over the next two years. Whether he can get us to a point that we can beat a good mid-major (like Tulsa) or lower AQ-BCS team (like KSU), is something none of us will know until next year and beyond.

With two weeks to go before the opener in Manhattan, KS, what are your predictions for this year's record, both OOC and SBC play (including Western Kentucky here). I say the following: 1-3 in OOC (win vs. Rice) 4-4 in SBC (wins over FIU, ULL, Western Kentucky, and Arky State) 5-7--more than double what we did last year and moving forward toward 2009 and 2010 with a very bright future. This year could be worse than 5-7 if the DLine is really as thin as it sounds and if the OLine doesn't jell. But, DeLoach will help long-term on the defensive side, which makes 2009 and 2010 seem so bright, and Vizza should really be in a groove in this offense in his Junior and Senior years. My biggest fear is that too many will feel like 5-7 will be a bad year, but with where we have been over the last three years and the roster being so young, that is acceptable to me for now. If we do better than this, I think Dodge will have done the best job of coaching at UNT in some time. Just my $.02.

I think this was when our Dickey-led team led the nation in scoring offense and most passing yards ever in season...

Yeah, that district has always been just terrible in football. As for being smarter, that is very debatable!!

1987-1991 were my years at Southwest. I do remember that Paschal ended a losing streak that was like 4 years long by beating Granbury in a game that I tihnk ended at 2-0 Paschal. At the time, Granbury was a 3A schoool, I believe. My senior year, Paschal almost beat us, but we held on to win by 5 or so. VERY BAD FOOTBALL!!

I am a grad of Southwest as well. As a matter of fact, my sophomore thru senior years at SHS, we won exactly one game per year--all against Paschal!! When I got to North Texas, I was there for 5 football seasons (student manager)--in 4 of those years we won 3,4,4 and 2 games. Including the 94 UNT team that won the SLC and racked up 7 wins, the teams I was a part of had a winning percentage of 23-60-2. Maybe I should get a grad degree from OU and pass on my luck to the Sooners!!

Sadly, you are right on the money about both of those schools--throw in UTEP and Tulsa while you are at it.

GEO, I understand many of your points, but, again, to the TCU fan and alum, they don't see any value in playing UNT. Remember that SMU is their rival--always has been. Even if they are in much better shape right now than SMU, they are still big rivals and always have been. They are peers in that they share a rivalry that is very old, involved two cities that rival each other, and are both private schools. This will never change as the TCU fans and SMU fans hate each other. They stopped playing their series one year and their fans were all up in arms about that because they both believe that they should always play each other. That is a rivalry and that is why they will always play each other. The same goes for UH and Rice (conference mates for now again but were not for awhile), and will eventually get there for UNT and SMU, which assumes that the contract to play each other never gets cancelled in the future. And, of course, SFA is a much less risk than playing UNT--they aren't peers either, but their athletic department recognizes that you should beat an FCS school, but getting one that will bring people to the game is a win-win for them. Playing UNT may bring people to the stands, but they could lose to us, which is the entire point of the TCU fan. Sure, they have lost to FCS teams in the past, but the risk is lower than playing UNT, which could play with them and be motivated to beat them with talent that feels as if TCU looked down at them. The best questions in my opinon to ask yourself are if you weren't a UNT alum, and your team was playing us, a huge public school that has really not done much on the field in the last 30 years or so, what would you think if your ranked team (or at least close to being ranked team) played UNT, especially in Denton? Would you care that they don't draw people to their dump of a stadium, except for the few games when a well-known team comes to town? Would you think that it would really help you in recruiting all that much if you win, but could really hurt if you lost? Most people on the outside of this would definitely tell TCU to avoid us, try and get games against former Big XII foes that you do recruit against, and keep your long-standing rival in the OOC. Just my $.02. And, oh by the way, I hate their sentiment toward us. Its just what we face from all of these old SWC schools' fans and alumni.

I am from Ft. Worth and know many TCU alums and supporters. It is really simple why they don't play UNT. They don't believe that there is enough advantages to outweigh the negatives if they lose--and they are right. Look at it this way, they are the big dog right now in non-AQ BCS, at least in the Southwest. They play their metroplex rival that is their peer every year. TCU is in great shape--they get strong recruits, good hometown support, and have a lot of funds. To schedule UNT right now--or even in the next five years--doesn't serve their interests at all. Maybe it will in the future, but even if we got our program going in the right direction, TCUs alums made it clear when we played them in that last series that they didn't like it at all. We have our work cut out for us on many levels beyond just winning and building a new stadium. In the state of Texas and the entire Southwest, most schools' alumni still believe that we aren't worth the risk of playing because of where we stand in today's NCAA. The good news, though, is that the success of the SMU series for both schools may have opened up some eyes to the other athletic departments in the state to look at us more closely when scheduling games in the future.

I actually thought KU did a smart thing on their scheduling. KSU followed this premise for over a decade with Bill Snyder. Even when they got really good, they often only played the dregs of d-1 and would end up top ten. Aside from a series with USC, during K-state big years, their non-conference had lots of weaklings on it--mostly at home. It uilt success, confidence, and led to better recruiting. In my opinion, what has hurt KSU is that OU got really good again. Those recruits that were leaving Oklahoma are staying home now, unlike during the mid-to-late 90s when the great John Blake roamed the sidelines in Norman. Man, it was a better world when he coached OU--oh how we all miss his incompetence.

If a university decided to field a D-I team in football, but never put many resources toward it that could have made the program grow big-time, would that university be able to get rid of that program eventually (say in 3 years) and say that the program was never going to do anything for the university, since the priorities of the unviersity are music, education, and art? Another question would be along the same lines. If the students were to turn down another fee increase, would that give the university's "leaders" the ammunition to do another student referendum to abolish the program like was done back in the early 70s, which thankfully failed?

This is my biggest fear. It would be a very sad day.

IF so, why did the guy say, "except for the Sun Belt"?

[business (competitive with any other program other than UT).

As for the BCS, as more 1-AA teams continue to move up and swell the numbers after the moratorium is lifted, I have fears of the BCS breaking off to form their own upper-tier of college football. A new era of 1-A and 1-AA evolving again with the top 70 schools in their own league?

GEO, In always enjoy reading your posts. They are always insightful. I am curious to hear about your views concerning Al Hurley, Norval Pohl, and now Gretchen in regards to athletics.

I agree with you on all of this--but the question of the post is what is holding us back? Ther are many answers there that deal with past, present, and future.

Here is my take on all of this, in order of greatest party responsible for us being insignificant to most people that are college fans: 1.) The administration--this includes the BOR. This school cares about one main thing--being a great value. That is why teachers love us, musicians love us, and commuters love us. We're cheap. As Silver said, teachers don't make much money. If they don't feel connected to the university, then there is no giving back. The profs at the school adamently oppose athletics because they feel it takes away from academia. 2.) City of Denton--the residents of this city don't really care about the program like many other cities do of the local team. It could be done (look at the way Ft. Worth supports TCU or the way the city of Tulsa supports TU), but this town wants a sleepy college feel that is eclectic--not athletic. 3.) The entire student body and alumni base--By and large, most don't care that we suck at sports and received no points on the recent Sears Cup standings. In many cases, the students want to follow other bigger schools because it is more cool. This is understandable when UNT plays in the same conference as teams that are not like us at all and are far away--no one really cares about a matchup with Middle Tennessee, Louisiana-Monroe, or Florida International. All the while, Texas and A&M play each other, OU, Tech, Kansas, Nebraska, etc. who have big histories and big attachments to the history of the school. What attachments do the children of UNT alums have to the university from an athletic standpoint? None--even Fry's teams, which were great and deserved better, got little attention, little support, and no bowl recognition, which is why the history here stinks compared to the old SWC. 4.) The Old SWC--this conglomerate owned Texas--still does. Through government, media, and alums, they basically said to everyone else that you don't matter (UNT and UTEP). The alums of each of these schools still hate to play us--why is that? Because they either look at us as a tune-up game that will be a blowout or they feel like it is unwinnable situation for them. These are both true today. When Baylor got clobbered by us, many of their alums were asking a very good question to themselves--Why do we play them in Denton? What good do we get for beating them vs. getting beaten by them? If you ask many TCU fans, they will tell you point blank that they hate playing us for these reasons. Tech started scheduling SMU for local games--ask yourself why? SMU hasn't been within 10 points of them in their recent series with Tech. 5.) Fouts Field--self-explanatory. As is the case with all of this, many of these are generalizations and their are certainly exceptions to each case. But folks, if our football program continues to go south over the next 5 years or so and we have no new stadium, it wouldn't be too big of a surprise to me to see the program dropped. Especially if Gretchen were to leave and got replaced by another Hurley-type. D-I football costs alot if done the right way--doing it the way we are right now is at best half-assed, IMHO. Ask yourself this question, if the students still won't vote on a fee, the BOR won't increase it (whether legal or not), and the team goes 2-10 again for the next couple of seasons, what do you think will happen?