untjim1995

Best post I have read on this subject. Show us that the university is committed fully and the rest will take care of itself. It really isn't rocket science. Both TCU and SMU have shown this to be true, so we should not be any different.

See, to me, that list shows the exact opposite of what you support. Simon coaches high school football now because no one will hire him. Dickey has been an OC at Utah State and UNM, of which he will soon be looking for another job soon. Even Jerry Moore never had a lick of success as a FBS coach. Now, your assistants that got listed have definitely sprung upward--but the head coach position here has been a mortuary for their careers after UNT. Of course, that has everything to do with funding and support before now. A new stadium and funding with it will improve our position greatly. From Norm's view, without following this program much over the last few years or having any reason whatsoever to do so, I am sure he thinks that Boise and USF and TCU all hired great young, unproven head coaches and they all have worked for those schools, so UNT should follow. The only issue there is that our situation is nothing like any of those other three. Boise has great civic support, TCU has money, tradition, and recruiting, and USF has conference affiliation and recruiting to take advantage of for a newer coach. The only advantage that those schools share with UNT is recruiting, and since we are one of ten schools in Texas, which isn't counting out of state competition for recruits, we really haven't ever been able to make that a real plus here at UNT. We will never have the civic support here of Boise (ever), nor the money of TCU (ever), but we have some tradition, a great new facility coming next season, and the recruiting opportunity here that would make your point about hiring a bigger name make sense much more than doing the typical UNT hiring of just a guy for the HFC position. IN reality here, it seems very clear and simple to me. We either show we want football to be a bigger player than it ever has been at UNT by hiring and paying for a proven coach and staff, or we tell everyone that this new stadium will be awesome on the FCS level because we really just don't want to move upward.

This turned into the worst thread I have ever read on this board and that's saying something. I think our fanbase is delusional if the name Chris Petersen shows up on a wish list. I can only imagine the laughter on other boards around the country at him being listed on this wish list. Peterson has to make a very high salary and bonus at Boise (surely it comes close to a million dollars, if not more, as a package). We need to make a nice hire here, for sure. But Chris Petersen is a Top 10 coach in the country. I would put him up there with Saban, Meyer, Stoops, Tressel, Mack Brown and Gary Patterson as some of the best program leaders in college football. He has proven that he can build up a program to even greater heights than where it was when he took over for several years. We need Franchione, Kragthorpe, one of the Bowdens, Glen Mason, or someone like this to get the ball rolling here. For each one of those guys, a package of $500K would get any of them and have $$$$ left to spare. But just stop with the Mike Leach and Chris Petersen stuff. It ain't happening here.

That's great that you care about both. How many others are like you, though? My guess is not many who attend a COM event would consider going to a football game and vice versa. When the administration and faculty and town have mostly supported the COM over the athletics dept., you see why you get posts like the one you responded to earlier. I wish it wasn't about either/or, but it usually is about either/or when it comes to UNT and Denton.

How do you do this (in the bold)? In the last 10 years, we have seen a big change in attitude from the President's to the AD and watched it filter down to the alumni and students and it ahs been great. But, it would take an even bigger tilt toward athletics by the BOR and the Chancellor and lots of the faculty to really make an even bigger impact. How do you do that when apathy has ruled forever here? I really am iterested to hear what people think we should do about it and when we would see the fruits of that culture change actually put us where we dream of being in both the short-term (CUSA) and long-term (AQ).

You know, if this is really true about the BOR, then it just isn't really going to happen at UNT for football. Seeing how you are the longest standing fan of this school, you probably feel like this already, but it is just so disheartening that our BOR and the Chancellor take the stance that they do and there really is nothing that can be done about it. In reality, our school will continue to grow because of its location and academics, so the chancellor and the BOR don't have to do anything on those fronts to make athletics be in better than it is. The growth is already there, in the minds of these simpletons, and they don't care if the music school only draws 500 people for a recital while UNT Football attracts 20k to the town and back on campus. Because, in their minds, we are a teachers school and a music school and football is better to be watched at UT or somewhere else. I will tell you this, its enough to make people want to just give up if the mindset continues to prevail.

I have always taken the view that T-shirt fans are fine--as long as you don't put another team above your alma mater. I grew up a huge Kansas Jayhawk fan. Obviously, that has worked out great for me in hoops, not so much in footbal over the last 30+ years. I wear KU gear from time to time, but when KU and UNT play each other, there is no pull for me to cheer against my alma mater at all. The problem most of us have with T-shirt alumni isn't supporting another school you like. But, when OU, UT, A&M, or Tech play UNT and the alumni of UNT openly cheer for those other schools because they are cool, they have history, they have a winning team currently, or because Grandma is from there, that is where the line gets crossed. I think it is fair if you have an AQ-BCS favorite team and a non-AQ favorite, since the playing field is usually so vastly different. Comparing UNT to UT is insane on any athletic level imaginable. I think the same thing about TCU and A&M, even though TCU has been much better recently. Historically speaking, the level of support is not close. Because of that, I can see how you can cheer for both pretty easily. Just my $.02!!

quote name='Cr1028' date='05 October 2010 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1286325105' post='514881'] If I were going to bet the house. 1. <5% 2. <5% 3. 40% 4. >50%

With so much laying on the line for the 2011 season and beyond, I started thinking about where we will be in five years, based upon a presumed change at head coach after this season. The scenarios are just so varied, but I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on the future direction of the football program, after this season. See which one seems more likely to you. 1.Scenario One We hire Dennis Franchione (or someone like him) as the new coach and he immediately wins. This would be interesteing as I believe that he might just stay here for a while, since he has been knocked back down the ladder. Very similar to the Hayden Fry hire/tenure at UNT. 2.) Scenario Two We hire a Coach Fran type and we still keep losing. This is my absolute worst fear. We pay up for a name coach, who then comes here and does nothing at all. We stay at the bottom of the SBC, thus causing our school's administration to go back to its cheap view of football/athletics. 3.)Scenario Three We hire an assistant with no head coach experience, who then succeeds greatly as a head coach (think Urban Meyer at Bowling Green). We have a great 2-3 years here, but then that first-time coach moves on and we have to keep the coaching carousel working to keep success here. Boise State has done it, but no one else jumps out at me as being successful steadily in this situation. 4.)Scenario Four We hire an assistant with no head coaching experience, but he doesn't cost much and we get another Dickey-type hire, where we could have a winning season, but it isn't until about year 5 or so. This basically continues our current view of athletics at UNT. What do you think the odds are at UNT, based upon all variables that we know of currently, that each scenario plays out? I think that Scenario one has about a 25% chance, Scenario two is at about 25%, Scenario 3 is at about 50%, while scenario 4 is at about 50%, too. Any thoughts?

In 1998, Steve Kragthorpe turned us down after the man (Matt Simon) who hired him here as his OC got fired by Craig Helwig, who was about 180 degrees different from the current AD. IN 1998,we played in the Big West Conference and our home games were at Fouts Field with NO FUTURE of a new stadium anywhere near. Not to mention the little fact that he would make significantly less at UNT than at Tulsa. Nowadays, his wife has a serious illness that has caused him to leave A&M this time, so he may or may not be available any way for this place. He has children in their teens, so that could be a factor if she passes away or is completely incapacitated. Trust me, he would listen this go around with the new stadium and the AD we have in place. As far as Franchione, don't even try to use leaving Alabama, who was about to go on probation, and leaving A&M, where he couldn't get past the other teams in the toughest division in college football, to insinuate that we shouldn't look at him for this vacancy. He would probably be a better fit here than even Kragthorpe. He is #1 on my list.

Post of the Year!! Make this happen!!

You can't make this stuff up. No fiction writer could sell the various ways we find to lose games. A blocked XP after scoring a TD to tie the game with 30 seconds to go? UNBELIEVABLE. It just wasn't mean to be, Coach Dodge. It just wasn't meant to be.

I don't really care too much about thisn pitiful radio station running us down, but it does bring up the real problem in that, due to our location, we get very little interest down in the Metroplex media becasue we are in Denton and they only care about Big Xii schools first, then other BCS schools next, then the local private schools, and if there is time left, oh yeah, that teachers' college played someone. It really is difficult to imagine how you get past this since those media outlets don't care much for non-AQ football (exception being TCUs ascendency). You can say, "Winning will cure this", but it really doesn't, as we saw during the SBC Championship years. Most of the media just ignored us, said the conference was just glorified Texas High School football, and that DD would probably leave as soon as he got the chance. I just don't see how a new stadium and winning again in the SBC is going to change that lack of respect. I go back to this, but earlier this year, we beat UTA in a great basketball game in Arlington. Easily, UNT and UTA are the two best local hoops teams and have been for a while. We won in double OT. Afterwards, there was not one single video clip of that game on one of the local TV sports stations. That game was in Arlington, too, so there wasn't any reason to blame the traffic or distance. It is just an example of what we deal with the DFW media.

Texas defense was really getting headlines, until after this UCLA game, but someone made a good point about the fact that their defense is geared to stop Big XII--spread offenses (see Tech, OU, Mizzou, etc.) A team that can just run the ball within a traditional offense obviously gave UT problems. I thought OU would win the Big XII this year, but both UT and OU look really overrated. The entire Big XII looks down to me, though. Alabama, Oregon, Boise State, and yes, even TCU, would run rough-shod over the Big XII this year, IMO.

Man, its so funny to see how things come around full circle. In 2006, we had post after post on this board about how Dickey's run-oriented offense was putting us all to sleep becasue of the boredom it caused amongst the fanbase and media. We fire him, hire TDodge, in part, because he would just "open it up on offense and air it out". Now, 4 years later, we are back to the Buick-style offense being put into place to steal a win. We live in interesting times as MG fans.

We used to go to lots of games as well back in the SWC days in Ft. Worth. I still love watching games at that stadium. You mentioned that UNT loss in 2002 earlier, which was the game where the Dickey Draw play was really at play, hence the frustration for losing 16-10. But nothing will compare to the 2000 game in Ft. Worth when our fanbase simultaneously started yelling "Throw the Ball" at our sidelines. Our only points were a FG that got setup by a fake punt. My TCU friends were laughing so hard, while we continued to run a draw play on 3rd down and gladly sent out the punter. That was my "sigh" game, where I remember going into the 4th quarter, thinking, "Man, we are only 10 down here and will have the ball to open the 4th. This is where we open it up and win this game." Well, we handed the ball off three straight plays, ran off about three minutes off the clock when we punted, and TCU went down and scored. Our coaches just wanted to get out of the stadium with healthy bodies and the paycheck. It was a shame, too, because we totally held LT in check that day (less than 100 yards), and he ran for 400 yards in his next game against UTEP, IIRC!!

You are dead-on about the KSU connection. I believe that was the biggest reason for sure. But, if SMU had gone to a bowl game that year, I wonder if SMU might have tried to keep Dickey on staff, since he didn't really make a ton of cash when he was hired here, and they may have been euphoric about feeling relevant in college football again. I guess we'll never know.

Where did you go to high school? CBL, how about you? I grew up there, too. Graduated from Southwest in '91. Always liked TCU, felt bad for them when they got screwed by the SWC breakup, and I now laugh at their fans always griping about not being in an AQ league, even though that has really helped them become the program that they have become.

I sort of agree about K-State, except that they had a major built-in advantage on us. Since they were in the old Big Eight when Snyder took over, he knew that he would have home games against big name schools that the students and alumni would be attracted to already. So by knowing that either Nebraska or Oklahoma was coming to town, along with either Kansas and Colorado, every year, KSU knew that they had at least two games each year that would bring people to the stadium. Add in Oklahoma State, Mizzou or Iowa state each year and you had three or four reasonable games to draw season ticket buyers in with games that were less than stellar for the other three. He knew that there was no reason to schedule money games or big name OOC competition because they already had the $$$ from being int he Big 8. He knew that what KSU didn't have was enough fan support, which meant that the facilities were below par. Voila, a schedule of North Texas, Northern Illinois, and New Mexico State became the norm, and as they won, the Cat Backers started showing up for ANYONE on the schedule. And the pollsters started ranking them as the wins followed and the climb up the Big 8 became obvious. This is where being the step-child of Texas universities (athletically) really has hurt over the years. We don't have the scheduling advantages or financial advantages of being in a conference with other well-known and supported programs the way K-State did. In the old SWC, the old guard extended their hand to Tech and UH, but not us. Hell, even UTEP has been extended a welcome hand by the other Texas schools with their inclusion in CUSA. But not us--I realize that most of that is on our own administration, but it has always been made clear that the other Texas schools aren't too interested in being in a conference with us, so we have had to find our own way. I completely believe that if UNT pulled off a K-State type miracle turnaround, there are many people who would say something like, "Well, they should be able to do that, they are in Texas and have all that talent to recruit from." Those who would say that are completely ignorant of just how little respect we have in this state, from the media to fan support to conference affiliation. Trust me, Barry Switzer was dead on when he said that Bill Snyder should have been named "Coach of the Century" for what he pulled off in Manhattan, KS. But K-State had some things in place already that we could only dream of here in Denton. And its why I feel that there is the very real possibility that we won't ever have a program that will reach the level of where Fry's teams did back in the 70s.

??? I'm sure this will be a witty response, which is what I enjoy about your posts, but I am to dense to get this one, so....

Two things come to mind about this thread: 1.) Coach Fran won at New Mexico and took them to the old WAC Conference Championship, then immediately left to go to TCU, where they were coming off a 1-11 year. (Funny thing about the 1-11 year, TCU beat SMU in the last game of the year, giving them their only win and keeping SMU from going to a bowl game even though they finally had a winning season at 6-5. The 6-5 winning season attracted the attention of Craig Helwig, though, so he hired their OC by himself, thus we got DD!!) It might be a better job than UNT because of conference affiliation, but they let their best coach get away from them because TCU paid more--nothing more, nothing less. 2.) Leach ain't the best interview. It has been said that many higher profile schools were very interested in his services (UCLA, Washington, Miami, etc.) while he was at Tech and it was fairly well-known that he wanted out of Lubbock. But after his invterviews at each place, he never got another sniff at their openings. His ego is large. Would he be a great hire here? Most likely, he would be awesome. But his ego wants a big-time job, his wallet will demand pay that will be close to what he had at Tech, and he wants nothing to do with glad-handing with alumni or the fans. That last part is what the Tech administrators hated most about him, was his lack of interest in doing anything PR wise for the program. Leach is a weird dude, but he is also a winner. His offense will put butts in seats, and I have always believed that a MWC-type school will get him one day. UNM would be a perfect fit for everything that he wants and what their program needs.

I am opposed to playing Texas or Oklahoma because not only are we not competitive with their talent or resources, but the negative perceptions associated with losing to them amongst Texas citizens get reinforced as to just how much better they are than us, even academically, which is not always true. If it were me, I would schedule my bodybag games each year with the Iowas of the world in the future. I know that we have them schedueld twice going forward, but I wouldn't play the top schools in the Big XII or the SEC for my cash anymore. With demographics as they are, the South has much more in its favor going forward than the Rust Belt, and I think that plays more in favor of at least having a decent game with them. We at least have a chance with our talent to match up more favorably against Big Ten or Big East teams. Seriously, we should not play Texas, OU, LSU, Florida, or Georgia for cash when Wisconsin, Iowa, Purdue or Michigan can pay out a lot of money to play them, too. I have always thought that going to the Big Ten to play cash games at least gives you a 1-2% chance of winning against their big boys, which isn't even counting the percentages of playing a close game that can help with your recruiting and image. Last year, Arkansas State come within an eyelash of beating Iowa, who went to the Orange Bowl. I guarantee that game gave their fanbase more pride and $upport than their butt-whipping at the hands of Auburn this year. Playing those other top SEC and Big XII teams have paid a lot of bills for our AD, but I haven't seen much good that has come with getting beat badly by those schools over the last 15 years. I would take my chances in a game at Wisconsin or Michigan at least being competitive versus the odds of getting pillaged when we go to Baton Rouge, Austin, or Norman.

Were the crickets chirping throughout this meeting?

I have always believed that Leach will end up at a school like this. Its in a non-AQ league where football isn't close to being the #1 sport and he won't have to glad-hand a lot of people. UNM would be a great fit for him, not to mention that they are in a league that can support higher-paid coaches and you can actually get a chance at being in a BCS bowl if you win that conference outright. He will get good pay, play Tech still for revenge, deal with little media, and will probably get lots of control. And, don't forget the pull that Steve Alford might have here with the AD at UNM. Bob Knight loved Mike Leach out there at Tech and I think that Alford has probably heard his old coach say that once or twice!!

Wow, that was bad. I don't know who hired this guy as a consultant, but if it was RV, then I am extremely worried about our ADs ability to hire the next football coach. If it wasn't RV, then I am going to assume that RV is banging his head against the wall, as that was money he could have used toward expenses in the AD. Extremely underwhelming. I just don't understand what this was supposed to do for us. We are all excited about building this new stadium, but I am still of the belief that we aren't really all that serious about sports here at UNT. I am coming around to the understanding that the SBC, for many different reasons, is just going to be our home for years to come, even though it will never be a place that will encourage extra attention from fans or the media in the area. I just don't see how we are ever going to get this thing (athletics) turned around here in Denton. We talk about if we have a winner, then the support will follow. Well, we had a winner in football during the early years of the decade and attendance was less than now. Meanwhile, men's hoops starts winning and going to the NCAA Tournament, but we see nothing close to improvement in attendance that you would expect from the depths of the Trilli years to JJ's tenure. I know that our fanbase is frustrated beyond all belief, but this type of report does the exact opposite of what we were hoping to read. To me, it just reiterates that our university doesn't really care if athletics builds upward or not, which seems so ironic since we are finally building a new stadium. I just think we will know our answer for sure if we hire some no-name coach in football for $275K after this season.