untjim1995

Those wins over LSU and TTU will give us exactly nothing in terms of postseason basketball. As a matter of fact, neither of those OOC wins even made a ripple with the local media, since both teams were bad this year. That win yesterday against FAU was our best, by a long shot. FAU would have beaten TTU or LSU this year.

You have a lot of good points in here. But its not just our fault, but also the surrounding area (City of Denton, Denton County) that have also helped to create the apathy. Unless the AD can get a big name here for a game, the local residents don't show up. When we try to build a new stadium to replace the decrepit piece of *&^% that we foolishly played in for decades beyond what any other school would do, we have a whole section of town (Denia) fight it out in every way imaginable. When the time comes to build a new stadium that could help both the major university in town and the high schools in said town, the city looks its largest employer in the face and says, "Too Bad--we'll do it on our own. We ain't helping you." We have to recognize that this doesn't help our cause at all. A lot of what you write may not be fixable. I mean, really, this has gone on for 100 years in Denton. The two times that we have a winner at the FBS or I-A level didn't really increase attendance or support (Fry years and 2001-2004). It could very well be that this university is so disconnected with athletics that nothing can change it, even building a new stadium. I really believe that the only thing we haven't ever had that I believe could change some of this is to win in a league with old SWC teams. The media, fans, alums, and faculty don't feel any connection or hatred with schools in the SBC or the old Big West, and they just laughed at the thought that our university would allow itself to be in a conference with such academic juggernauts as SFA, SHSU, Southwest Texas State, and UTSA for over a decade, especially since we had tried so hard to finally get accepted into the SWC just a few years earlier. You can say that a student, alum, local resident, or faculty member shouldn't care who we play or what league we play in, that we should only care about UNT, but that has as much chance of occurring as me going over to the local gas station and buying the winning lotto ticket. It does matter who you play, just as it has mattered to the leftovers from the SWC, of whom see attendance figures that are nothing compared to when Arky, UT, and A&M came to town. This is why when a terrible Baylor football team gets scheduled to play in Denton that we set our attendance record, even though Troy or MTSU has been a much better program for a long time. Our problem is that we are lucky we get ONE Texas team on the schedule, then we go back to podunk schools from Louisiana (sorry if you aren't LSU, few fans care about any other school over there), Airport schools from Miami, and other tiny schools from the South, which leads the collective fanbase to take a huge nap. Its my belief that until we can get in a conference with teams people care about, the apathy will continue toward our teams, history, and traditions.

This. I think this guy is just laughing at the fact that he got this thread to four pages. He lost all credibility when he said Daniel-Meyer Coliseum in FW is nicer than the Super Pit. Talk about a dump of a place. I grew up there and it is not anything close to nice. I cannot imagine the look on Jim Boeheim's face or Rick Pitino's face when they have to go play conference games there. Maybe they can just get Jamie Dixon's perspective before they go--after all, that place (except for the painted seats) is just about the same as it was 25 years ago when Jamie was hitting half-court shots to beat Texas.

Actually, I give him points for making a joke about us hiring another high school coach again, since we have done it TWICE in Bill Jones' time here in the DFW Metroplex. Just remember, we did this to ourselves.

I can't say that I blame SMU or the other local CUSA schools from blackballing us--its there way of keeping a leg up on us for as long as possible. They don't want to take a chance on a large state school moving upward. Very similar to how most UNT fans look down at UTSA or Texas State as potential conference mates. It is fairly common knowledge that SMU, Rice, Tulane, and Tulsa all vote together in a block to protect their interests since they have smaller enrollments. What really amazes me is the good relationship Rice and UH have. I imagine because of UH's size back in the 70s along with their success in football and hoops, that the SWC just told Rice to deal with it, especially since they were the only team in the Houston market, but both schools seem to get along fine. Since DFW had both TCU and SMU already, that made things much more complicated for an invite for little ol' North Texas State back then to the SWC. UTEP also had to deal with being left behind, but their hoops success and being in the original WAC was not a terrible deal for them. Old habits and reputations die hard. In Texas, if you weren't SWC material, most of the media and fans didn't care one iota about you. Today, if you are not in the Big XII, those groups really don't care about you much, either. But, being old SWC teams in bigger metro areas still gets attention--and every once in a while, a team like TCU's football team or Rice's baseball team really step up big time and the old-guard Texas media loves it. All of this is why I truly believe that our way upward isn't in the SBC and it won't allowed to be in CUSA as long as SMU is there, but instead, it would be through the MWC. We can do what TCU did and use our Texas recruits to build up a program that can play with and beat teams in the MWC that still carry strong name recongnition. In my mind, its our only chance of moving upward in the direction that most of us want to see.

We REALLY need to start winning football games again around here...that would be the greatest solution to the lack of REAL traditions. Trust me, I grew up in Ft. Worth when TCU was lucky to win 4 games in a season in the 70s, 80s, and most of the 90s. Winning sure seems to have cured a lot of ills that were said around Ft. Worth back then.

Its extremely important to be anatomically correct!! In actuality, we are busting on FFR here, but his points are usually valid to some degree. Most people don't complain on here with as much vigor as he does, but that's ok. He wants what we all want--a better university and a better athletic department.

Personally, I don't think we need to compare ourselves to anyone else, at least not in the state of Texas. Until the conference situation is comparable for UNT with any other public school in Texas, it really is apples-versus-oranges to me. But IF the SBC=CUSA, then comparing us to UH and UTEP would be very appropriate. It could very well be that we could be compared to UTSA/Texas State if the new WAC can survive and those schools can be competitive with the other WAC schools. But for now, CUSA=====>SBC==>New WAC. One thing for sure is that we should not waste our time trying to compare ourselves to Tech. That is a much bigger animal than the other schools listed, if only because of conference affiliation and location (nothing else to do).

I tend to agree with what you posted here. The culture, although slower than we all wish, is moving toward a more spirited campus amongst a growing core of students and faculty. When we won in the early stages of the SBC, most fans looked at the collection of schools in that conference as a glorified 1-aa league. The gameplan for those games, no matter who we played, seemed to always be run-run-run-punt, then go back on defense. When we had a great defense, we won with that system against lesser-talented teams. Most fans recognized this, so they didn't really get all that into a big SBC championship run, for the most part. If we start winning again, we will see a bigger jump in attendance, which will help the entire athletic department. As far as basketball goes, what most fail to recognize is that college basketball is not all that popular in the state of Texas, unless you are winning big. Even then, its a crapshoot sometimes (see A&M and their support this year of a ranked team.) Texas has had trouble getting attendance to watch a great program play lesser teams. Tech is even worse, attendance-wise, unless they are winning big. I really believe that a lot of people are missing the boat on college basketball and its entertainment value during the regular season, but that is probably another story. The point I want to make is that we have improved our attendance over the last 5 years--with very little help from the league we play in--and there are few schools in the state that can say that. As a matter of fact, I would challenge any of the Big XII or CUSA schools in this state to see how their attendance would be if they got ULaLa, ULaMon, F_U, Denver, etc..to play conference games with them and we got Kansas, K-State, Mizzou, Oklahoma, and OSU, as conference mates. It would make us all laugh to have to see Baylor host Troy for a conference game or SMU to host ULM for a conference game while we got to play Kansas at the Pit. It will never happen, but its why I think attendance issues for UNT are apples/oranges when compared to other schools in the state.

You, sir, have given me a good laugh. Nicely done. You forgot about how we don't hold up our talon correctly as a a fanbase, too.

I agree on the CUSA/SMU deal, too. But the question was who should we compare ourselves against, but none of the schools listed were SBC schools. As far as football is concerned, we will draw ok in the SBC (average around 20-25k per year) in the new stadium just because football in Texas is always going to be king and we will not always be a bottom-dwellar of the SBC. But make no mistake about it, being in the SBC does affect attendance negatively in all sports. There's nothing we can do about it, but it is an albatross around the ADs neck. We really need the SBC to get back up again in men's hoops, as it was the only sport that helped our league get some respect in a revenue sport when we were having success in the Tournament.

Well, lets see how Tech's attendance would be if they got to play SBC schools instead of Big XII schools, especially big schools in Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. Then, look at UH and see how they do with SBC scheduling versus CUSA scheduling. BTW, UH doesn't do that great, either in attendance when you factor in their enrollment, too. Finally, how would our attendance look if we were in CUSA, since we know that the Big XII is obvious? I contend that we would average more, but it wouldn't be 6000 or something, but we would average between 4k and 5k in CUSA.

I can't imagine that this season will help us in our bid to get an invite from the MWC. The SBC is usually much better than this in mens hoops, so I believe we have no choice but to just hold out hope that we and the rest of the league can get back to being a quality hoops conference again soon.

I read that line "We play in the Sun Belt" often, which I take as "this league is up for grabs every year". The only problem with that line of thinking is that it is fairly inaccurate. The bowl teams from the SBC have been: Troy, MTSU, and F_U over the course of the last 5 years. FIU just got their first bid this year, while FAU dropped off (could be similar to UNT's drop to oblivion in 2005 if the Owls aren't careful). I know that ULM and ULL have had years of late where they finished at that SBC Fabulous overall record of 6-6, but they each got no bowl invite. Maybe 6-6 UNT would get a bowl bid, but I am more focused on the idea that I want to see us get to 4 wins in a season, which would mark the first year above 3 wins since 2004. "We play in the Sun Belt", but I think we have a ways to go to get to where 6 wins is achievable, much less 7 or more, which is what the SBC champ will have. Troy, FIU, and MTSU will still be good teams in the SBC. I know we beat MTSU at their place last year, but I don't think that we will be favored against them this year, with our QB situation and DLine issues at play right now. I don't doubt for a second that this staff is the best UNT has ever had in the last 30 years, and I think we will see big improvements as the year goes on, as well as on the recruiting front, but I also think that if we finish 4-8 or 5-7, that will be serious progress around here. I hope that folks don't lose sight of this, even with a brand new stadium finally at hand.

Usually, it takes at least two years to get a program turned around. Now, SMU was able to do it quicker with June Jones in 2009, as was Dennis Franchione when he went to TCU back in 1997, but generally it takes a while. Cristobal had to build up his program at FIU and now they are bowl winners. I just think that this year's record is kind of a mulligan. Just like Cristobal at FIU, McCarney is having to take over an absolutely beaten down program and its gonna take time just to convince them that they can be winners here. That sounds like we aren't raising expectations, but I do believe that year 2 is when we should expect a winning record and to compete for a bowl berth. Coach Mac is going to have to find and develop a QB and entire defensive front. Other than the OLine, those other two areas on your team are the hardest to build. Its gonna take some time. My guess is that we will probably go 0-fer in OOC again, but we will be able to win 4-5 SBC games. Right now, ULL, WKU, and Ark State are games I think we win, and I think we will win at least another game against the next tier up in the SBC (FAU, MTSU, ULM). I think games at Troy and at FIU are probably out of reach right now, but, just as I want to see in the OOC games (sans Bama) is being able to compete. We might get beat by UH and Tulsa in OOC, but hopefully we can be competitive. At this juncture, I think that will help recruiting just as much as moving up a tier in the SBC would.

You went too far...

The answer to both is Western Kentucky Unviersity.

I just look at these overall records and think that if FAU doesn't win the SBC Tournament, our rep will be surely playing in a play-in game. Heck, the Owls may still be a 16 seed even if they don't have to be in the play-in game because this league sucks so bad this year. This conference sent two teams to the Big Dance in 2008, with one of the teams advancing to the Sweet 16, and the next year had a last-second bucket keep WKU from going back to the Sweet 16. How on earth did we become such a lousy basketball conference so fast?

Seeing how the caller gave exact details of what poison he used and that it would definitely kill the trees and then ended his call with "Roll Damn Tide", I think it is fairly easy to go ahead and say it was an idiot Bama fan. I used to like Alabama. They were a team that I generally rooted for during the season. I always liked Gene Stallings as a coach. They have great uniforms, great tradition, and had Bear Bryant as their icon. But since they hired Saban and we have all seen their fanbase just show their ass to the world since that point, they are no longer worth any fandom--mine or anyone else's. I'm not a UT fan, just in case anyone thinks this is because Bama beat the Longhorns for the NCAA Title two years ago.

And the worst poster on gmg ever--at least he has that going for him. Seriously, he made PMGs posts look really short!!

That MWC basketball league is legit--and has been for a very long time. What the Aztecs are doing right now is phenomenal. UNLV really needed that game at home, but SDSU is too tough. That league would be an awesome place for UNT, for both football and basketball. IMO, a much better place than CUSA, which is a much better place than the SBC.

This is what all those complaint emails to the sports stations do in this town.

My $.02 on this topic is that both camps are correct here. Denton is so close to DFW that it isn't a big deal to go down to the Metroplex for the weekend. Denton doesn't have the entertainment that the Metroplex offers, so that is an obvious pull. College Station, although about an hour and a half from Houston, is still pretty much its own town--not to mention the need for Aggies to stay amongst themselves. In Austin, the entertainment options are very strong (live music, bars, outdoor activites, etc.), so their students usually stay. The biggest difference between those schools and ours is the decades-old advantage that they have in being "cool" to be at. And it is my experience, as well, that more financially-advantaged students attend either A&M or UT than UNT or other smaller state schools in Texas. But that has a lot to do with status and their academic reputations. Both are Tier One and have been for many years, which generally makes employers very eager to hire their graduates, especially in the engineering, science, and business areas, which is where the big-monied alums normally come from. Once someone graduates from one of those schools, often their children will only go to one of those schools when they get ready for school. Not saying that this doesn't happen at UNT, because we know it has happened, but the reality is that UT and A&M (and now to some degree, Tech) have really created family legacies that have paid off greatly for those schools.

See, I didn't really feel like those basketball victories over Tech or LSU registered that much with any DFW media outlet, but neither of those teams are very good this year in hoops so that didn't move the needle much. If we could have given Kansas a game in the 2nd half in Lawrence, that would have gotten attention--even if we had lost. All of this is to say, that you are right about the wins, especially in King Football, over SBC teams just doesn't register with the local media or the fanbase, for that matter. If next year, we beat UH, then that would at least get some attention from the local media outlets. The only problem there is that with this being McCarney's first team, a less-than-settled QB situation here, and the fact that Houston will probably be the CUSA favorite next year, a win over them seems pretty far-fetched right now. I still think they were a great choice for the stadium opener, but we just aren't at their level (with a presumably healthy Case keenum) yet. We'll see. And by the way, I'm from Ft. Worth, and the town has gotten behind TCU big time, but Gary Patterson will be the first to tell you that FW is not a TCU town. They just don't have the enrollment or alumni base to keep up with the huge public schools within a 5 hour drive.

I agree with your post about getting better in recruiting against the Belt teams first. We can have grandiose dreams, but that is all they are until we start winning games and moving away from the bottom end of the SBC. This next year, for me, is all about getting the right attitude ingrained in the team. We have lots of young guys, so making them believe that we can win is huge--but it is easier than taking over a veteran team that has only known losing for years and years. McCarney has all of the attributes to get that instilled. I know that we all think the Belt is a crapshoot every year, but the reality is that we have to get to where we can beat ULL, Arky State, and ULM regularly again, while mixing in a win or two over the big four Belt teams of the last few years (Troy, MTSU, FAU, and, now, FIU). The track record for new coaches who take over losing programs is not full of huge turnarounds and bowl bids in season one. If McCarney can get us to the point where we win 4-5 games next year, that will be a really good sign, especially to a team that hasn't won that many games since 2004 and has only won more than 5 games 3 times as a FBS team since 1995. Where SMU is at right now is because of their coach and $$$, nothing more. They can compete in their conference and their league right now, but if the coach goes away, will they stay up there? It is hard to say. But to insinuate that they could be the next TCU is a major joke. They may both be private schools in the Metroplex, but that is about all they have in common right now. TCU, right now, has the stability with the long-tenured coach, great facilities, and a place at the BCS table. SMU may have big money alums, but they don't sit at the BCS table and probably never will. Until they can even be in a conversation of being a BCS buster, they aren't going to be the next TCU--they will be more like the next Tulsa. All that being said, we aren't even in the same stratosphere of either of those schools, so it seems silly to try and be in that conversation with any of the other Texas schools right now. Lets get back to winning seasons in the SBC and we can work our way back toward respect.