untjim1995

Here's where your argument hits a snag. Back when Dickey was our coach, we had a huge conference winning streak, 4 straight bowls, the two previous national rushing champs who received lots of natinal and local pub, and open practices. In 2005, we averaged about 17-18K per home game, which was no different than it had been before. Lance Dunbar is awesome, but his team has been absolutely horrible for a long time. Joe Bob will know him even more when he runs for 200 yards in an opening season win over FIU. If that makes Joe Bob buy a ticket for our big home game against Western Kentucky, then we are the better for it. But I doubt if we were sending out all kinds of information on practices right now and how great Lance Dunbar is, Joe Bob will buy that ticket for Western Kentucky's visit to Denton if we get blasted in our first 4 games of the season, even if he runs wild in those games.

This is dead-on. UH will never be in the Big XII because the conference already owns the Houston market, even if A&M leaves. Its the same for us. TCU has proven all of this, as their own AD admitted when they joined the Big East that being in DFW would have never gotten them a Big 12 invite, so they have had to go other directions. Now, if the big Texas schools leave and the other teams remain (OU, KU, MU, etc..), then some of those MWC/CUSA schools and TCU would probably get calls in a heartbeat, since the remianing schools would have to get Texas schools into the conference. Its doubtful that would happen, though.

I will start off by saying where my viewpoints on this have come from. I grew up in Ft. Worth, rooted for the Frogs, watched lots of old SWC games at Amon Carter Stadium, and never liked SMU. I had absolutely no idea about North Texas until 1988 when they beat Tech, Texas*, and Rice--its how I learned what i-aa vs i-a meant. The TCU vs. SMU vs. UNT argument on who has more potential is one that is tied up into many topics (conference affilitation, alumni, media, enrollment, history, location, and facilities). To me, this is TCU's main advantage on the other two schools. When TCU wins, they have a big town to draw from, a city that basically adopted TCU as the hometown team. Ft. Worth has always viewed itself as very different from Dallas, which has always been a professional winner's city. Ft. Worth roots hard for the pro teams, too, but they have taken great pride in having a great university as its own to help show off the city. Even with the fact that TCU has a small enrollment, wealthy private students, and a small alum base, the school has always had a strong endowment for athletics. Couple all of this with the fact that they are in the heart of the metroplex, the media covers them very well, especially when they started beating people that fans have actually heard of. When TCU beat USC in the Sun Bowl in Coach Fran's first year, it started a wildfire that has only gotten stronger over the years. They basically have what SMU and UNT don't have--a big metroplitan area that the city has embraced as its own. Of course, it always helps to be a winner!! SMU has the money, the history, and the metroplex media as advantages, but Dallas covers the professional teams first, the big Texas schools next, then SMU and high school stuff. Their wealth fits in well in the Dallas mindset, but unlike TCU, the city of Dallas never has made SMU their hometown team. If June Jones keeps building the program up, they have the same problem that UNT has--they mostly play teams that have about zero interest to their fans. Sure, UH, UTEP, Rice, Southern Miss, and Tulsa are teams that we love to play and would die to be in a conference with, but to SMU's older alumni and the Dallas citizenry, they hate not being in a conference with Texas, A&M, Arky, Baylor, etc.. Getting to play them in non-conference games (except TCU) is all they can hope for now. In Dallas, if you aren't the best, you might as well be the worst--hence the Pay for Play mess that they got caught up in back in the 80s. Couple this all with the snob factor that SMU ramps up about 25x more than any other private school in the state, you get the fact that SMUs days of being included in an AQ-league/new 1-a order in the future are nil. To me, UNT really has to hope a few things align to make a big jump up in the future. Obviously, winning is the big thing, although wins against SBC teams only won't do it. That has been proven. We are going to have to get our "USC" win, that gets followed by big seasons, ala TCU in the late 90s. We have to hope that we can start winning fast and that it makes a MWC/CUSA invitation even possible. Denton has proven that they don't view UNT as its hometown team--poor support, constant bad-mouthing of athletics, and a true lack of media have all been factors. But, to me, the biggest reason that Denton has never cared about UNTs athletic teams is because we have never been able to align ourselves with a conference that people care about. If you get the big signature OOC win and combine it with an SBC championship/bowl berth, you could very well get that jumpstart to get into the MWC/CUSA that I believe is the only way to get alums, students, and Denton to solidly support the program ALWAYS!! I personally think that the MWC berth is the only chance UNT has to ever be included in the future separation that will occur. If it occurs, TCU and UNT will be in great shape, but I truly believe SMU won't ever get that chance. But, if we don't get an invite there, I think TCU will be the only DFW university that will be in the new 1-a/AQ down the road. If it plays out this way, maybe we will finally get that new SWC we always talk about--it will probably just be a non-AQ/1-aa league, though.

Schnellenberger did help, since he started the program at FAU, instead of them hiring some no-name assistant to start the program. The problem is that he won his national championship over 25 years ago. People remember Leach had success at Tech just a few years ago and all of the media attention he got, which was not even close to being the same when Howard was patrolling the sidelines in the Orange Bowl for Miami in 1984. What Leach has accomplished as a head coach in college football is light years ahead of anything Isiah Thomas had accomplished as a basketball coach/GM, especially since this is his first college job. Literally, this is apples versus oranges, in regard to helping national perception improve for the SBC.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them offer more than what UNT offered McCarney. He would be a huge get for FAU. As for Leach, I have said that this is the type of job that I suspect he will get as his next coaching job. No big-time AQ team is going to hire him because of that ego. Leach lost out to Randy Edsall for the Maryland job, even though Leach had more success as a head coach in a much tougher league. He has non-AQ (or an AQ in REALLY bad shape, like Washington State) written all over him for his next job. Jim Leavitt may have some say in this eventually, too, but I am sure that his lawsuit against another public institution in Florida may preclude him from getting that job.

LT almost ended up at UNT. TCU got in on them late in recruiting, IIRC, and got him. We recruited him out of Waco very hard. We had JaQuay Wilburn at the time, who was also very good. Imagine, though, what LT would have done in a Dickey-run offense. He might have run for 500 yards in a game here!! I will say this, though, about LT. In the infamous "Throw the Ball" game at TCU, LT really didn't have that huge of a game against us. He may have broke 100 yards, but it wasn't by much if he did. It was the next week that he ran for over 400 yards against UTEP.

I tend to agree with this, as I have said that the non-AQs should really look at creating their own playoff system to create excitement during the AQs "bowl" season. Those AQs are so beholden to the bowls that they aren't going to leave them for a while. Imagine a Boise State versus UCF semifinal playoff game in mid-December when 6-6 Texas Tech is playing 7-5 Arizona in the Insight Bowl. It seems like it would create way more interest than the spare bowl game, especially if the next day has another semifinal between undefeated North Texas playing SMU to go the championship game. If North Texas play Boise State for the non-AQ championship in the last week of the year, I can't imagine that an Alamo Bowl game between 7-5 Oklahoma State and 6-6 Northwestern will really attract many viewers. Let the AQs have their BCS bowl games. We will keep the dollars from the playoff system and avoid the cost of going to bowls that still cost the university a lot of money in the end. For a playoff game, it would seem that every non-AQ should be able to sell out a home game, especially if FCS schools can do it. All monies from the enitre playoff run gets split evenly amongst the non-AQs. If we are going to go the route of superconferences anyway, then we might as well put the screws to those schools first. Don't play them in non-conference and create a playoff that they aparently cannot do, since the AQ presidents and bowl committees have all the power and won't change anything. Or, of course, we could just keep the status quo, too...

I completely agree. I fully believe that BYU will be in this league, if it still exists. That keeps them at 10, gets a big name in the conference, and would add a TV market and a national following. Texas and ESPN have BYU in their hip pocket--I am still convinced that both had major influence on BYU goin independent. As soon as they announced their indy status, Texas scheduled them for two games and ESPN immediately announced a TV deal with them. Both of those two parties need BYU and won't care a bit about the BYU network. SMU, UH, and every other school in Texas and Oklahoma will never get into the conference as long as the conference membership looks the way it does now.

Yeah, there are lots of politicians from those schools--its just too bad that they are out numbered GREATLY by politicians from West Virginia, Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, and Alabama, all of whom control their respective state capitols and Washington, DC. Look at our own state. Texas and A&M have shared PUF funds for over a century without sharing a dime with any other school, including the other big public schools in the state. Texas Tech, UH, and UNT, not to mention all of the other state schools have some political ties in Austin--just not enough to get any of that PUF money. I can assure that all our SBC brethren can relate. Arkansas doesn't even act as if Arky State exists, LSU treats the other LA schools like they are little kids, and I'm sure Kentucky and Tennessee aren't just giving WKU and MUTS a whole lot of love. Power and Money may be the downfall of college athletics, but make no mistake, both will continue to be the major forms of influence for a long time to come.

To me, for UNT, the pros and cons on all of this are just glaring at us all. PROS--PROMISE and LOCATION!! Now that we finally have a legitimate stadium, other strong facilities, and solid coaches/athletic director in the two main sports, we should have conferences very interested in having us come aboard. We are located in a huge media market, have a huge enrollment, and lots of alums who would come running out of the woodwork if we ever started playing and beating names of schools that people know. The MWC would be a great fit for a Texas school to play in right now. CONS--HISTORY, APATHY, and LOCATION!! No history of winning and lots of apathy among the fans and media, due to poor leadership and community support over the decades. The other Texas FBS schools, private or public, have shoen little-to-no interest in being aligned in a conference with us EVER. We got this beautiful stadium (finally) and started supporting athletics (finally) but, realistically, it may very well be too late. As a matter of fact, the price tag on this new stadium seems to be a bargain for the jewel that it is, but it will look very expensive if we are "downgraded" back to a 1-AA type level within the next 5-10 years. If this happens, and we are basically back to playing Southland-type schools, the administrators at UNT will get barbequed by the "old nestors" and the anti-athletic types. You think funding was bad before... I will tell you that my best hope is that we end up in the MWC, but I fear that the number of applicants for that conference just soared. I truly believe Texas Tech, Baylor, and possibly, Kansas and K-State, are bound for that conference real soon. If the MWC wanted to wait until they saw who would be a good fit for expansion to 12, they are about to get some good possibilites. Tech's academics will not play with the Pac-12 schools at all, only if it means they get Texas with them. Either way, Baylor will go there, just to smite the old SWC schools in CUSA. The Kansas schools would be a huge get for the MWC, but I suspect it will be the Big East that will get them. I fear this, though. All of this conference shuffling occurs and CUSA see some teams leave and there are openings. But CUSA decides to fill UCF's shoes with Florida Atlantic, ECU shoes with Middle Tennessee, and there are no Texas or private schools that leave, thus we get stuck in the SBC with Arkansas State, ULL, ULM, Troy, USA, WKU, and FIU. If this occurs, it will continue to be a tough sell here for the foreseeable future.

If it was just this simple to move to the MWC...

I am very proud that we have finally decided to make a commitment to football by building a stadium that is beautiful and hiring an experienced staff to lead our program. It really is amazing to see the steps that the administration has made over the last few years. All that said, though, if we don't start winning, this stuff we are celebrating now will fade away quickly.

I agree with you on both counts. HOWEVER If a&m thinks they are going to compete with the BIG BOYS in the SEC they have another think coming. a&m will be a middle-of-the-conference level football team at best - Hell, they have hardly competed in the upper level of the Big 12 until last year...... Sorry Objective Aggie, your lesson should be Arkansas. They left the SWC many years ago and over that time they have been a middle-of-the-pack SEC team - and believe me, a&m has nothing going for it that Arkansas does not also enjoy. Talk about "premier conference" and a&m wanting to be in one - I have no doubt that a&m will enjoy relative mediocrity in the SEC (at least as far as football is concerned).......

Yeah, they did, but that has zero effect on how they will do against UNT in 2011.

Part of the reason that I think we played so well down the stretch was that Canales took over and the players responded with some renewed vigor. Maybe that will continue, but I have to believe that Coach Mac's system (not just playbook, but also training, practice, academics, etc..) will take time to get fully implemented. Its why I believe that 2012 and beyond are very bright for all of us here. As for this year, the part about the lines and the lack of true experience at QB are my main reasons for the 3-4 wins prediction. I see wins over WKU, FAU, and hopefully two of these four (@Arky State, @ ULL, ULM, and MUTS). I expect that the non-conference will be an ofer and that Troy and FIU are the cream of the crop in the SBC. Seeing us at 4-8 with that schedule is still progress to me, especialy seeing how we haven't won that many games in 5 years and have only surpassed that win total 5 times since 1995.

Hey, no problem--I just believe the Coach until he proves me wrong, just I as did for Dodge, Dickey, Simon, Parker, etc. The other four showed me that I was wrong, so maybe this time I will be wrong for a good reason!! I will say this, if you are right about Coach Mac "sandbagging", it will be disappointing a little bit to me. Not because it isnt normal for coaches to do it, but Coach Mac's candor so far has been as great to me as his enthusiasm. But if you are wrong, please don't make rants about this being a bad hire or the wrong pick after this season. He's going to need time to get his system in place and working at full speed. To me, 2012 will be good, 2013 and beyond will be great with a legitimate head coach in charge finally that has great facilities to recruuit to.

This is absurd--even if it has "some" legitimacy. So we are just going to take apart teams from every conference to join Notre Dame and Texas. If this was football only, it "might" have some merit, albeit very little, but this is beyond dumb for the majority of those schools. ND and Texas have more than clearly shown to the entire world that they care only about themselves. If you want to see the Big XII stay together or intact, the only option that they have is to get Notre Dame and BYU in here. You can easily survive if A&M leaves with both of those schools being in the mix. Add another school, you get back to 12 and you are in great shape. Hell, UH is probably salivating at this possibility, as they would probably be the A&M replacement in Texas if the scenario I just posted about was to take place. You would get ND, KU, K-State, Mizzou, ISU, and BYU in the North, while OU, OSU, Texas, Tech, Baylor, and Houston would be in the South. This is a pipedream, too, though, because if the Aggies bolt, this thing is done--just a matter of whether Texas joins Pac-12 or goes Independent.

Baylor has been in a conference with all of those teams at different points over the last 100 years. It makes sense that a Baylor alum would love to keep those rivalries going, since most of their fans have strong ties to playing those schools. NOw, if he included UTEP, then I would be offended. It just shows how strong that old SWC mentality is within the state and its media.

I'll give you some love for this one. We just disgree on where we are as a program right now. You see us as at least winning 5 games this year because we are in a suck conference that experienced coaches will dominate in immediately, all while believing that expectations around here must be raised. I believe that the experienced coach is not sugar coating anything, has proven to judge talent very well, and knows we are playing in a suck conference that has owned us for the last 5 years. His system of physicality is COMPLETELY different from the previous regime and its players, which usually means its going to take awhile to change the mindset and get players in here that fit your system. I see us with 3-4 wins, you see us with 5-6 wins, so we may be pissing in the wind about being so far apart in viewpoints, but the expectations around here have already been raised just by building the stadium and hiring Coach Mac. Either way, GMG!!

If A&M leaves to go the SEC, I believe it will eventually add 3 others too. I suspect Florida State, Clemson, and Virginia Tech would join the SEC with the Aggies. Look for the Big Ten to then go after Missouri, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, and UConn to shore up a New England following. Look for the ACC to poach the Big East hard--Louisville, Syracuse, and West Virginia all fit well in that league. Look for the Big East to go all hoops as a conference. I expect that the Pac-10 will get the Oklahoma schools and Kansas schools for lots of reasons. I see the MWC adding Texas Tech and Baylor if this occurs. CUSA would get back Cincy and South Florida. That would give them 14 teams--maybe they go to 16 and we get in that way!!Of course they could also take MUTS and another SBC/WAC school too. The timing of this breakup, as usual, never helps our alma mater.

You know, this is why I can't envision a season with 5 wins or more. When the coach has said, repeatedly, that the lines are weak and that he now has admitted that it was "embarrassing" at the level of physicality for this team in the spring, it is just hard to see how this thing gets to the point where we are competing for an SBC title in year one of Coach Mac's tenure here. But I do expect that we will be MUCH better at the end of the season than at the beginning, as the kids get more confidence in Coach Mac's system. And I really expect that we will get to the 5-7 wins next year. Our future is brighter now than it ever has been. We just need to appreciate the fact that the head coach is basically having to change the mindset of the team from being weak and passive to strong and aggressive when it comes to hitting. The success will follow, even though it may be in the next few years to follow.

Tell you what--let Coach Mac have success here like Gundy has had at OSU and it won't ever be an issue. I promise.

You know that George O'Leary went 0-11 in his first year at UCF in that powerhouse conference known as CUSA, right? IIRC, Mario Cristobal won one game in his first year at FIU in the SBC. Look, I hope you are right and we are wrong. Winning 5 or more games this year would be amazing. If we do that, I think we are at least a year or two ahead of schedule. Coach Mac seems to be a guy that knows how to develop talent and puts a premium on HS recruiting. Usually, that pays out big time in about 3 years. I always go back to the "SBC is an easy league to move upward" argument--its not. Since we dropped off, Troy has perched itself at the top, while FAU and MUTS joined them, too. Now, FAU has dropped and FIU looks to be ready to take their place, just like Troy did to us in 2005. Sure, Arky State, ULL, and ULM have had a decent season here or there in the last 6 years, but they have basically found consistent spots in the middle of the SBC, all while we and WKU have kept ourselves comfortable in the basement. It has been this way since 2005. Our main goal this year should be to find those 3-4 wins in SBC play that get us up to the middle of the league--we do that, then we can take aim at the next level in 2012. You then aim to win the darn thing in 2013 with all of your recruits in place in that new stadium. Its the exact same path that Cristobal took to get FIU to the top of the SBC and a bowl win in 2010, his third year there.

I believe UTEP has said they like being in a conference with other Texas schools for their fanbase, which is probably the best for them since the other Texas schools actually like being associated with them. Of course, it helps that El Paso has no other school or pro team to take away from its support. Utah State is a must for the MWC because they need to keep a foothold for their network in Utah. I still believe that the next spot will go to one of the following: San Jose State, North Texas, or New Mexico State. Those three schools fit the footprint of the league and have some history to sell to the other schools. In all honesty, the winner of the MWC invite in this group probably insures its stay at the current FBS level, at least as FBS is comprised right now. To me, UNT just makes the most sense--from a market standpoint (only school in Texas gets your network lots of TVs available for some viewing), great facilities (finally), and a large enrollment. NMSU and SJSU have major funding issues, enrollment is smaller, and their market is either really small (NMSU) or not any better than UNT's (SJSU). I have said it before and I will say it again. Its gonna take the leadership of another conference (MWC or CUSA) to see the potential here in Denton for us to make this move upward. Our recent FBS history is plain awful and our mens basketball program has gotten much better, but we still have work to do there, as well. But Craig Thompson could look at this all and say that UNT is perfectly situated to now succeed on the field/court and we could get back into Texas in a very favorable situation for the MWC. I still believe that if we got to recruit players to play against Boise State or Fresno State in our new stadium with Coach Mac, our program would soar. I believe the same thing with hoops, too. Getting to recruit players to play in a conference with SDSU, New Mexico, and UNLV would be awesome for Johnny Jones. We have two great coaches, we have two great facilities, and we have a huge enrollment with fairly solid funding. All we need is for someone to look at this and say that we need that school in our league. And because of our past ties to most of those schools, we could very well be the 12th MWC member very soon.

I love reading posts with loose to describe a defeat...