untjim1995

Maybe MizzouTigers will show up on their board too and trumpet the "Jim Leavitt is the only guy you can possibly hire or else you are really just stupid" theme again. I mean, really, how did Jim Leavitt not get hired anywhere last year? MizzouTigers told us he was the best coach since Bear Bryant...surely he will get hired this go around, right?

Out of road games at LSU, KSU, and UH, we get rid of the Houston game? Really? If this is due to UH's move to the Big East, then that is acceptable, but if it is on our end, that is really stupid. We clamor for in-state games, then give one up. I hope that isnt the case.

Completely agree, Silver. Too many advantages to not get this going. I will be shocked if it doesn't get up and running soon. As a matter of fact, if RV does get us out of one of those AQ OOC games next year, this is who I would schedul as its replacement, just make it a home game to get to 6.

I used to think Fouts was the big reason people wouldn't come to a game, but I have now realized that this isn't true. When we played Army, Navy, SMU, TCU, Baylor, Tulsa, or Rice at home, Fouts had some really nice crowds. And we were usually just terrible--exception being Baylor in 2003. The reality is that Fouts couldn't attract too many decent opponents as Apogee could, but the reason people still wouldn't come to watch us in bigger numbers when we won is because of the teams that were coming here. The only time a game with an SBC opponent drew a decent crowd was when we played NMSU at Fouts for the conference title. I doubt very seriously that games at Apogee next year will really be much different from Saturday night's game against WKU. We will get an announced crowd of somewhere around 15k to 18k for the SBC games and our home game against Texas Southern. The athletic department really needs to try and get OOC home opponents like they did this season--and frankly, there is absolutely no reason to expect anything less. UH and IU are the types of opponents that should be here every year. Next year's schedule and most of the future OOC schedules at home are way below par to me. As a matter of fact, I will bet that season tickets will drop down some after this becasue the newness of Apogee will have worn off and the upcoming season has 5 home games with the marquee game being Arkansas State. That should tell you all you need to know about the expectation for 2012 attendance.

Actually, the last two times they played here, in 1991 and 1993, we didn't have much of a crowd to speak of at all. The 1993 game was homecoming, so it was our annual game that drew over 10k during the Parker years. In 1991, SWT came here and we played in a monsoon, which SWT pounded us. The attendance that day was announced at around 7 or 8k, but it wasn't remotely close to that because of the weather. All that said, I believe that they would bring a good showing up here now that we are both FBS. They have brought decent crowds to SMU, TCU, and UH in recent years, so they probably would for a game in Denton, too. Really, if we hve played them more than anyone in our program's history, we should get back to playing them regularly again--for lots of reasons.

This is the worst news we have gotten in a long time, if it is indeed true. I still think we could eventually could get in, but it will not be immediate, which gives the other SBC and WAC teams time to make their cases heard, too. Eventually, the TV sets in Florida and Texas will matter to these conferences, especially when their TV deals need to get renegotiated, but I truly fear the real possibility that we will be in an even more watered down non-AQ conference than we are right now--and that it leads to us getting cut out of FBS. Its not hard to see the day when we will hear of the NCAA doing another i-a/i-aa split again. As a matter of fact, it might be the only way the NCAA can stay in business and not have the giant programs cut off from their membership to start another college athletic organization. I will always believe that the new stadium saved our program from extinction, but our apathy and lack of success will be able to keep us from getting into the highest level of college football. Everything we offer as potential can be used against us fairly easily--big enrollment (apathy), location (lack of fan support, other schools have stronger appeal, town seems to hate college sports), and history (lots of losing in the modern era of college football). It is just not hard to see us being in a new FCS-type scenario down the road with other regional teams, both to save money and get people to travel to watch their teams. The non-AQs not in CUSA or the MWC probably would be able to coalesce into workable conference fairly easily. La Tech, ULL, ULM, Ark State, UNT, NMSU, UTSA, Texas State and Lamar will all probably face the same situation. I know it sucks, but it probably is how this thing will eventually have to play out. Denton, UNT grads, UNT students, faculty, etc...don't care by and large about anyone but the big AQ schools. Its not hard to imagine more UNT students on Saturday night watching UT and OU playing on their TVs than even KNOWING UNT was playing. You can't make them want to go watch Western Kentucky, just like you couldn't make them go watch Nevada, Sam Houston, or West Texas State to go back to earlier days of the program. Winning in the 70s proved this, just as winning in the early 00's proved it, which is why the "just win and it will fix everything" argument doesn't truly hold water. These people want to watch teams they follow and where their family and friends attended. But when those teams literally don't want to be associated with you and have proven that over a century or so, you are basically pigeon-holed into this "purgatory" that we are in. Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but I don't see how those things really will ever change here.

I opened this thread because it told me I would calm down. Instead, I just got my blood pressure boiling again. For the sake of all that is holy, please stop playing top tier SEC and Bevo 10 schools. They give you nothing but a paycheck. Even that hurts your product with the casual fan who decides that, "Oh, I saw North Texas lost 63-0 at LSU, who I have heard of and saw them win the national championship last year. I see they are playing their one OOC game at home this upcoming week against...Texas Southern? I think I'll stay home. By the way, why do they always play the national champion from the previous year to open up the season?" The Belt schedule next year will give us the possibility of 4-6 wins. The OOC gives us one, as it stands now. I love the game at UH, but we aren't even close to their level right now, especially playing them on the road. I like the K-State game, but the same applies to this game as it does for UH. I hate the Texas Southern game and I hate the LSU game--neither gives you anything of major help with the fanbase or the team. And God help us if we lose that Texas Southern game. I think you schedule an OOC game against FBS schools only and I would be on the horn with Texas State in a heartbeat. But, in the end, this is North Texas--we will probably just keep the schedule we have and continue to kill any chance of momentum.

We will have three in our party today, but I am thinking we get around 16K. Its WKU and the weekend before Thanksgiving. I doubt that will add up to a great showing.

To me, this is just too little, too late, though. By not addressing this mess years ago, we have seen the Big East and CUSA get crushed twice, the MWC get smacked, and then, of course, the Big XII, which is the biggest travesty of them all. So if we get rid of AQ and BCS bowls, then the bowl committees get to invite who they really want. We know that the networks only want the big teams in the big conferences any way, so that is just who the bowls will go for. Getting rid of AQ will mean that the Sugar Bowl won't have to ever invite Houston again (like it might this year) because they are the top non-AQ team that finished ahead of the Big East Champ. What needs to be done, IMHO, is two things: 1.) All bowl revenues get passed out like NCAA Tournament funds do. 2.)Get the bowl games to go back to hosting the champs of a certain conference, but if that conference's team is in the Top Two, then the team goes to the national championship game and the bowl gets to go pick another team at large. That would make January 1st a great day again, instead of how watered down it is now, with spares playing in weak bowl games that have been created in the last few years. To me the SBC Champ should always go to New Orleans, no questions asked. MAC Champ goes to Detroit. CUSA champ should go to the Liberty Bowl. Big XII should go to the Cotton Bowl. Big Ten/Pac 12 go to Rose Bowl. SEC goes to the Sugar Bowl. ACC goes to the Orange Bowl. Let the Big East pick a bowl up there in the NE to always go to. Let the teams who finish below the champs play the other conference's champs in any of those bowls. All of this may not be a playoff, but it would certainly get back to the history and tradition of college football. I miss knowing the Cotton Bowl would host the SWC champ and a good team every year. This auto pairing of Big XII #4 vs Pac-12 #3 in a bowl game every year does very little for me as a fan--it just seems too canned. If LSU and Oregon end up playing each other, the Rose Bowl still can get Stanford and Michigan State to play each other, while the Sugar Bowl gets Alabama to play whoever they choose. This year, Arkansas State gets the NO Bowl, so maybe the NO Bowl invites either a team like Tulsa or maybe a Baylor to play down there against the SBC Champ. It would just be a better system for the fans than it is today.

TFLF just hit a moonshot out of the park...very good post, sir!! Denton really acts like North Texas Athletics is a burden and a waste.

I truly believe that we will be in one of those two conferences when this realignment-thing finally ends. I think the SBC will get 2 or 3 teams poached, one of the F-Us, MUTS, and UNT, just because of our size and our TV markets. That said, I think it is possible for the MWC to just add Utah State and SJSU and be done with it. I also think that CUSA could add MTSU, F_U, and La Tech. Do I think that this would happen?No, but its possible. That leaves us in a league with ULM, ULL, Arkansas State, F_U, WKU, South Alabama, and Troy. Probably then the SBC would take on NMSU, UTSA, Texas State, and whoever moves up next from FCS. We would be in a league with recent FBS starters in WKU, USA, UTSA, Texas State, and whoever else moves up. It would be disastrous for North Texas on every level, but especially bad if TCU and SMU do well in their new conferences. As a matter of fact, I can't even imagine college football including this league in as FBS down the road, but that's just my opinion. I think its a moot point, though. We will be in one of those two leagues before its all said and done.

I thought we delivered the Dallas market?

I don't know, but I think a local FBS team should always get their score mentioned during a newscast, even if its in a suck league or against a bad team. I saw too many SMU scores and video against powerhouses like UAB or Tulane when they were terrible. But I also realize we weren't ever in the popular group (old SWC), so our reputation doesn't get to precede like every other FBS team in this state (sans UTEP).

At the beginning of the season, I felt that a good year would be 3-4 wins, considering our line size and QB inexperience, not to mention losing a playmaker at WR in Carey. I even went so far as to say that if we won 5 games or more that Mac should be Coach of the Year in the SBC. Well, Hugh Freeze has that one locked up, as he should, but the job Mac has done here, so far, is borderline miraculous to me. Maybe its been all the losing over the last 6 years, but I just cannot believe this program has a chance to win two home games to finish .500 overall with the overall talent here right now. Those guys on this team have finally begun to see the rewards of having an experienced coach that has instilled pride and heart in them. I truly believe that we will win at least one of these last two games and finish with at least 5 wins. To put that in perspective, if we win both, this would mean that we have more wins in Coach Mac's first year here than we have won in all but three years (2002-2004) since we made it back up to 1-A status in 1995. If the folks at CUSA can't see this and what it means for our future, then I think we will never be invited to their league. And it will be the MWC that will be the big winner for that short-sightedness. But, I really believe that CUSA ain't that stupid--they are gonna raid the SBC to move back to 12 and we are going to be in that group.

I think this will continue until we beat someone that grabs the average sports fan's attention. It isn't fair, nor right, but it is the way the local pro sports/AQ mindset runs in DFW. I've posted it beofre, but a good friedn of mine that covers local sports once told me that for UNT to ever gain the attention of DFW sports fans and media, it will take them beating a big name OOC team AND winning the SBC. The SBC just doesn't give any of those media idiots any sway, which is what we saw from 2001-2004. They never know when Troy or any other SBC team is good, but they always seem to know when they are bad...I promise you that most of those DFW sports guys have no idea what Arkansas State's record is right now, but they know that Arkansas is in the top ten.

Coach Mac, in Year 1, is also halfway to the Dickey Monster's win total after his first three years as the head coach (3-8 in 1998, 2-9 in 1999, and 3-8 in 2000). The lesson here is that neither Dickey or Dodge were the right guys for this place. Now, it seems, we ahve found one who COULD fit that mold.

Just wait until these greedy bastards separate from the NCAA and create their own March Madness and Super College World Series...seriously, these two quintiessential collegiate sporting events will get absolutely abused by the greed to the point that we all won't even recognize them in the future. These big AQ schools (not Baylor or TCU) are eventually going to get out of this sharing business alltogether. Look at the Longhorn Network. ESPN will eventually force Texas to give them coverage to support the millions that they get to keep for themselves. Playing a home game against ULM or UTSA ain't gonna do it for ESPN. Thta's why they EXPECTED at least one conference game a year to start on that stupid network. That ain't gonna for away--its just going to get worse. Once you consider this, then consider that ESPN ahs talked to Ohio State about doing this for their school, too. When does it get to Florida, Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Michigan, USC, etc... For UNT, I have come to realize that it has now almost become for me just about being a clean and academically-proud university that our student-athletes can excel at. If we are in the SBC in 2030, but we never run into various infractions from the NCAA that look like what we have seen over the last 30 years, I will be ok with it. I know that I personally won't ever accept an illegally-paid athlete at UNT, an athletic dept that commits academic fraud to get better athletes, and I will never go back to a UNT game if it ever comes out that a coach and AD knowingly looked the other way at murder or rape being committed by anyone associated with the program.

JoePa has always stood for being the cream of the crop in college football. He has always had the reputation of what everyone should want in a college coach. After all of this has come out about Sandusky and the rest of Penn State's leadership, the tarnish to his reputation will be severe at first, but will eventually fade away. I think he should get fired, but if he coaches the rest of the year, I think it will hurt Penn State even more. The university needs to move forward immediately. This was brought up on the Ticket this morning, but if it somehow comes out that Paterno was over a program that was cheating bigtime and he covered this up so that the program wouldn't get caught (ala Baylor Basketball with Dave Bliss), then this scumbag should get prosecuted just like the AD or anyone else associated with this mess. I am not calling Paterno a scumbag-yet--because he did follow the letter of the law. Obviously, he violated the spirit of the law and he is getting his just due for doing the bare minimum. But, if it comes out that people got paid or there were academic frauds occurring during his half-century there, he should get prosecuted for perjury, obstruction of justice, fraud, and anything that can be thrown at him. I really hate college athletics right now. Between the greed of realignment and network coverage, along with bowl money and who controls the NCAA, I am barely hanging on. Seriously, this $hit is about to do me in as a fan.

I certainly can see this guy's view actually coming to fruition down the road. Attendance won't be an issue that holds SMU back anymore with the $$$ they will get from being AQ, plus if they really have success there, Dallas will get on board real quick because of its winner's mentality. If they win big in 2012 and 2013, I could see that series only being a two-game deal or less. I just go back to the fact that they play us when they need us--not when they don't. If we are good in 2014 and they aren't, watch out for the buyout. Money has never been an issue down there and it certainly won't be after AQ status sits in for them in a few years. To go from $1.5mm in CUSA money to $10mm from AQ Big East money just emphasizes what a huge advantage they just got over us, not to mention they just got a gignatic boost in their hoops recruiting. SMU gets UConn, Louisville, Villanova, Georgetown, Cincinatti, etc.. to play against, while TCU gets Kansas, Texas, OU, etc, and we get Western Kentucky, South Alabama, and Arkansas Little-Rock. If SMU and TCU can't turn that into something on the recruiting trail, then that would be a colossal waste. Something tells me that at least one of those two will benefit greatly in hoops as they move forward.

The problem is that we are joke REGIONALLY, which is why we are irrelevant nationally. Its why NORTH TEXAS STATE gets regurgitated when we do finally get any national pub. Make no mistake about it, though--our reputation in Texas and in this region is what kills us.

That's about the response I would expect out of someone who cannot refute one part of the argument being presented.

For what its worth, I don't think we will drop down either. But, if that situation did play out, I do wonder what it would like around Apogee on gameday. Thanks for answering the question!!

That was the risk in buidling the new stadium. It may have saved the program, but it may not have insured us to be at FBS in the years to come. I would be interested to see what the folks on gmg.com think if we did get dropped back to the equivalent of i-aa. Would you still come to games that involved us playing Texas State, like we used to do as SLC mates in the 80s and 90s? Back then, we probably averaged between 8k to 12k per year, I would guess. Would it be better now that we play at Apogee? Could you still support the Mean Green the way you do now if we dropped back down? Those are pretty tough questions to answer.

If there is a CUSA that includes F_U, MUTS, La Tech, and UTSA, we might as well just give up on our FBS hopes. I doubt this will happen, though, at least the UTSA and La Tech part. If we were to get stuck in an SBC that was made up of one of the F_Us, Western Kentucky, Troy, South Alabama, Louisiana-Monroe, Arkansas State, and Louisiana-Lafayette, all while SMU and TCU are in AQ leagues, we would get even less fan support and media attention in the Metroplex than we already do. I do think that if CUSA and MWC do merge as they are talking about in this new alliance, which would not require any additional programs to be added, the leftovers of the SBC and WAC really need to look hard at if they want to stay at the FBS level and how to put together a workable conference affiliation. Right now, the SBC will have 10 teams in the 2012 and the WAC will have 7. If you see 1 of those teams drop down (like Louisiana-Monroe), you could look at combining the leagues into one conference and having a pod system of 4 teams in a division. (Idaho, Utah State, New Mexico State and SJSU) (UNT, Texas State, UTSA, and La Tech) (ULL, USA, Troy, and Ark State) (WKU, MTSU, FIU, and FAU). Each team always plays their pod every year and then plays one of the other pods every three years, while also playing the team in the other remaining pods that finishied where you did (i.e., 3rd vs 3rd in West vs East and SW), to give us 9 conference games. It would save on travel, create rivalries, and maybe keep us all at a quasi-FBS level like we are now, where at least we have a chance at avoiding the FCS purgatory again. At worst, we would be better than the MAC, so if they get to keep FBS status, we would be able to stay there, too.

+1 Those guys no more care about what happens to North Texas now because they got their wish. If they stayed in CUSA, then they would care a lot more--they never wanted to share anything with us as far as conference affiliation. They never will, either. They have cash, tradition, location, and media to help them. We literally have none of those and never have. I still think that there is a good chance that the series we have planned with SMU doesn't get played completely as it is scheduled, if at all. They will play us if it helps them (i.e., we're bad still), or just buy us out if it doesn't help them. If you look at the times they have played us over the last 25 years, you will see it has been when they needed us on their schedule (immediately after the death penalty and in the last two failed years of Phil Bennett's tenure). Where were they from 1994-2004, when we needed them on our schedule? Nowhere to be found. TCU played us then, Baylor played us then, but not SMU.