untjim1995

This is the absolute best we could hope for during all of this alliance formation. This would be so great. This is what I pray happens. This is what I am afraid of, though, for UNT. UNT, Arkansas State, Georgia State, Louisiana-Monroe, Louisiana-Lafayette, Troy, South Alabama, Middle Tennessee, Florida Atlantic, Western Kentucky, and anyone else that moves up from the WAC or FCS.

I literally want to throw up when I see those future schedules. I hate games at Texas and Oklahoma, but I get that they are royalty around here and playing either of them every once in a while helps the pocketbook, all while allowing our fans a close road game. But seriosuly, games against any SEC team right now, not named Vanderbilt or Kentucky are just stupid. Florida? Georgia? LSU? Alabama from last year? Just stupid. And we make it even easier by playing those great teams in the first month of the year, not later on when we might have a chance to catch a break and play them while they lose attention from their conference games. Just dumb. I really didn't mind choosing Iowa as an OOC opponent, but then we give them a two-for NONE deal, even with a brand new stadium down here to attract a team like Iowa to come and play in and get some recruiting recognition. It literally makes no sense to me, especially when SMU gets A&M, UTEP can get OU in the Sun Bowl and freaking ULM can get Baylor to go to that dump for a game. And don't even get me started on Texas State getting Tech down there for a game in San Marcos--not in five years when Tech could buy the game out, but THIS YEAR!!! Meanwhile, we get Texas Southern as the marquee home game this year...and hope like hell that SMU doesn't back out of our series with them in a few years when their AQ monies start paying out. Are we just that far down on the totem pole that we have to schedule this poorly and can't even reward our fans with a decent home game in the future? Right now, SMU and Tulsa are the "big" OOC home games we have scheduled. We did better than that this past season with both UH and Indiana here. Its fun to play the two I mentioned earlier, but if you tell anyone else that SMU is your marquee home game opponent over the next ten years, lets just go ahead and get prepared for more laughter from the other college football fans in this state and region. I guess all you can do is just accept it...as usual. But it doesn't mean that it isn't ridiculously stupid, either.

If your first paragraph is sarcasm, I apologize for having my sarcasm radar down and I applaud you for your genius... If you are not being sarcastic about UT, your second paragraph explains why we are where we are and why UT (and every other major Texas public university) hasn't even worried one little iota about North Texas athletics and probably never will anytime soon. We don't need extra teams here at UNT to drain out more costs--we need to focus on revenue sports that we can excel at while staying within the Title IX rules. Baseball would be fine, but nothing else is needed. My vision for North Texas is to be positioned within the Alliance and to build up revenue programs that can compete for conference championships. I have no grand idea that we will ever be in a conference with the Big Three schools here, nor do I see UH, Baylor, TCU, or SMU ever associating with us in a conference--they have made it abundantly clear for many decades that they don't have an interest in this at all. Look, we have never been equal to even UTEP or Houston in the last 35 years, much less Tech, A&M, or UT. You can say that my vision for our alma mater is lacking, but the proof is in the pudding here. Texas and A&M have no peers in this state, academically or athletic-budget wise. They control the state legislature, the media, and the courts in this state, plus they get all the PUF money. If any of us needed proof about the power of those two schools in this state, the unshared PUF is the end of the argument. Meanwhile, Tech left everyone else but the Big Two behind a long time ago when they got included in the Big XII. They have the endowment and the alumni-donating base that wants to push to Tier One status. UH got drop-kicked years ago when the SWC disbanded and they have fought hard to even make it back up to a reasonable level of FBS, while also aiming at the Tier One status academically--hell, they are a better academic school than Tech. UH alums have had the benefit of having seen the Coogs be a top ten team in basketball and football over the last 4-5 decades, while playing teams that people have actually heard of and care about in this state. UTEP has basketball history and a leg up on us in football right now, plus a nice-sized market that they share with nobody. Literally, we can't match one of those other Texas public schools in athletics, which is exactly how Denton and old North Texas State nestors wanted it. Even when we acted like we wanted something bigger--like trying to get into the SWC or CUSA--the DFW Privates (sharing this market has been a killer for us) were there to swat us back down. Heck, even Texas was open to us coming into the SWC. With the direction of college athletics today, it won't surprise me to see the NCAA either create a playoff for specific leagues that will hold about 60-70 schools across the country. It could even be less than that. When that happens, the amateurism of college athletics will probably get abolished. Assuming this schism occurs, and that we aren't a part of the upper tier, we can really blame no one else but ourselves. We openly shunned athletics for decades (i-aa will probably be our forever curse), we kept alumni from having the opportunity to donate to athletics, and we allowed the DFW Privates (SMU essentially) to basically label us as being less than worthy for membership in a more prestigious conference. That wasn't UT's plan or fault--it was UNT's plan/fault, plain and simple.

Scott Drew is as dirty as they get...Only difference between him and Calipari is that Calipari can actually caoch x's and o's at a high level. When Drew's teams play anyone with a great coach and good talent, its over for Baylor. No one has two more overrated runs in the tournament than he does. Buyer beware...both as a program considering Drew or as the recruit considering Baylor.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 I don't know that we can realistically ask for anything more to be done by our university to get us into the Alliance. My guess is that if we don't get in now, we ain't gettin' in. Here's why: We already have the facilities, TV market, budget and academic standing to fit perfectly with the Alliance now. If the Alliance still thinks we aren't a fit, then I highly doubt that anything will change that belief in the future. Yes, our football team has been awful, but our attendance numbers have actually gone up since we won the SBC in 2001-2004. I just can't see how winning the SBC this year would suddenly change the minds of the Alliance members if they believe that we don't belong in their conference now. To piggyback on your points of what we still pay the price for as a university from poor decisions in our past, imagine being the chancellor or president at UNT if we stay in the SBC and then the league gets dropped down to a less than FBS level in the future. Can you imagine the outcry that will come from the dollars that have been spent on the football program recently? If we think the Denia/Denton residents that hate UNT howl right now, just think of how much ammunition that crowd will run with in their anti-athletics drivel if we don't get to move up anytime soon... Also, we get laughed at when we ask people to come watch a home game againsta conference mate in Western Kentucky. I have already gotten laughs about a home conference game this year against South Alabama. I am fairly certain that trying to sell a home conference game against Georgia State won't be any easier in the future.

I think the real point of this is looking at value. Is a game between UNT and Texas Southern worth $24? Depends on who you ask, I suppose, but to most people, its not. Is $24 a good value to watch two Sun Belt teams play? Again, it depends on the buyer. Our attendance--from the ticket buyers and especially from those who can get in for free (students), the value proposition isn't really there. But, for those of us on gmg, its definitely a huge value because we love our school and our team. Unfortunately, we are in the vast minority--unless we are playing someone that people have actually heard of and care about. Maybe we are chasing the proverbial rabbit here, but this is why an Alliance berth would make a difference here. Maybe its only a 5-10% attendance boost, but I think if you win in that conference setup, you can average 20k or more rather easily. Its been proven you can't do that here in the SBC. And, btw, I hear a lot of bitching about season ticket pricing (value) from Longhorn fans, too. For the unreal costs of donation just to get to buy expensive season tickets, Texas is offering home games this year against Wyoming, New Mexico, West Virginia, Iowa State and TCU on Thanksgiving. Again, value is in the eye of the buyer. UT hopes to be good, but if not, attendance will suffer. On the other hand, the Aggies play this home schedule this year, with the same caveats as UT for season ticket buyers--big donations to buy season tickets. Of course, the Aggies get this home schedule this year: Florida, South Carolina, Arkansas, LSU, Sam Houston, and Mizzou. On paper, Aggies fans get the upper hand with the opponents, but their team is probably going to be luck to win two of those home games, so is that a good value or not? It just depends. The question about what is value will always be difficult to define--is it value to watch your team play whoever is on the schedule? Is it value to watch your team be able to win against a schedule that your fans (or casual fans) don't care much about? Or is it a value to wacth great teams come to your town with very little chance of winning? The right answers are all intertwined in all three, most likely.

First off, I care zero about women's basketball, only watch the highlights when they are on SportsCenter. I realize that is sexist, but I literally hate watching that style of basketball versus the men. Sorry about my chauvinistic attitude. But, I will say this about the Stephens woman who got hired. It sounds as if this was a checkmark hire by the university to get a minority woman hired, who also didn't demand much in pay. And, in true UNT fashion, we got what we paid for. I knew that lady would eventually get fired when her team LOST to TWU in a pre-season scrimmage. That, to me, is about as preposterous as it gets. I realize that those things happen, but that is beyond embarrssing. I'll never forget having a few TWU alums laughing at me about this. Secondly, the Karen Aston hire is exactly what we should want to happen at North Texas. Be successful, have others recognize their greatness and hire them away for a lot more money than we could ever pay. If Johnny Jones ever wins a tournament game or two, he will have a good BCS job offer wherever he wants. If Dan McCarney was to have a season where we went 11-1, I can assure yall that offers would be flying in from all over the place, even if Coach Mac decided that this is supposed to be his last stop. This is, maybe sadly, the true dream of a mid-major. Get good, keep the coaching pipeline at a high level, develop the program into a great place, and then find a great guy who wants to stay here for a long time with great success (see Chris Peterson at Boise or Brad Stevens at Butler).

PMG, I wouldn't give the Chamber of Commerce much credit here. The reason that particular game was heavily attended was 1.) It was against Baylor, who even though they were awful at the time, was still a member of Big XII and former SWC royalty that Denton folks very rarely got to see in Fouts, and 2.) we were very good. In Denton, like it or not, the turnout is dependant on the opponent first, then if we are good or not. When we have been good and played a team someone cared about (heard of), we have drawn good crowds (over 20k). When we have been good and played SBC/SLC teams, then attendance hasn't really been that good, except for a championship game (NMSU in 2002). When we are bad and playing a name school at home, we get good crowds (see past games in Denton versus TCU, SMU, Rice, baylor, and UH). When we are bad and playing SBC/SLC schools, attendance has ranged from poor to how-in-the-world-do-you-have-a-college-football-team-at this school(see home games against NMSU in 2000, WKU in 2007).

In HS back in the late 80s, Irving Nimitz had a RB named Roderick Walker, IIRC. The guy was absolutely unstoppable, but in his senior year, after siging with UT, he tore his ACL. Still went to Austin and played sparingly, but was a true beast in high school. In college, at the AQ level, no one was better to me than Eric Dickerson, with Barry Sanders and Adrian Peterson tied for a close second. As a pro, Earl Campbell is still the gold standard, as the guy who could do everything. If I needed 5 yards to get a first down, he would still be the guy in his prime that I would pick.

Who else is competing for their attention, sports-wise, out there? Nobody. They should support the Miners--they got nothing else to take away from their teams. Here in DFW, you battle, Cowboys, Rangers, Mavs, and Stars during the football and basketball season, along with the Big XII/SEC AQ teams that get 95% of the media attention. Out in the West texas town of El Paso, the Miners should be the biggest show in town, unless you enjoy watching Juarez shootouts from across the border.

All I keep imagining is that this game would be like us making it as a 16 seed, playing #1 seed Texas in Dallas. Sure, our kids would be pumped to play against Texas. And our fans would no doubt bring up the 1988 football game, using this to convince themselves that the team will have a real chance to pull the upset. Unfortunately, history tells us that we would lose by 20 or more. WKU has a ton of history and a lot of high quality SBC players. They even get to play in Louisville. But UK is an NBA-lite team. At best, WKU keeps it within 15 points, but I think Kentucky wins this by 30 or more.

Thanks for having the courage to post this. I now know to ignore every single post or point you make ever again here on gmg.com.

What a slap in the face that is to Johnny Jones. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this, but getting to the NCAA Tournament from the Sun Belt is much harder than it was to make the New Orleans Bowl in the first four years of the SBC sponsoring football. Johnny Jones actually likes it here and I have never heard him once state that "This is the Toughest Job in America. I should know--I work here EVERYDAY". Johnny Jones probably has about 2 years left here at max, if we make the tournament this year and then next year's team does what it looks like it can do. Then he will cash a big check at a AQ league, which is a bit different from what the Buick got to do at the "height" of his time here. IMO, its not even close...

I really cant see us averaging 15,000 a game this year in attendance--unless we beat one of the three big OOC teams on the road. I think we will go 1-3 in OOC, then in conference play, we will beat USA, Troy, FAU, MTSU, and one of the games at home against ASU or ULL, as well as one of the games at WKU or ULM. We should finish 7-5, but I wonder if we will get to a bowl game, as WKU got left out this past year with the same record, IIRC. I guess it will depend on who we beat. Heck, at 6-2 in the SBC, we might win the whole thing. But the saddest part will be the attendance--no matter how good we are, if we get killed by LSU (most likely), and the UH and K-State beat us pretty badly, our SBC games aren't going to get too many folks out to Apogee.

The AQ teams in the Big 5 conferences (can't include the Big East in this anymore) thank you for their support and for following their myopic viewpoint!! No worries--when they get the "new" AQ system filled with only the top 60-70 schools, the rest of us will really think this article was gold!!

OK, UNT90. Tell us how to get those Texas schools that "matter" to accept us in a conference with them? NOt just polay us, but be in a conference with us. Because the last 50+ years tell me that they all are looking at UNT the same way you are looking at Texas State and UTSA. BTW, if UTSA doesn't get included, it won't hurt my feelings, but TX State has been playing ball at some level for a long time, so they are very much like us when we moved up form our purgatory in 1994. Unfortunately for them--and maybe us, too--UTSA has a market that has very little competition and a city that likes and supports their university. North Texas cannot say this at all about our area, especially in terms of being liked by its home town.

Exactly--just like every other current FBS school in Texas has looked down at us for, oh, about 50+ years. Never mind that our only chance to get into this Alliance is the fact that UTEP and Rice might finally be willing to look at us in a different light than all of the other Texas schools have for decades. If they don't, the writing is on the wall for our FBS future, anyway, and we should be open to getting Texas rivalries going with UTSA and Texas State. If we are going to be in the SBC for the long-term (and don't fool yourself into believeing that isn't a possibility), we need conference games against Texas teams. Because not having them right now in the current SBC is killing our attendance--at least Texas State would bring a decent group to Denton, unlike Louisiana-Monroe, which is our closest rival, and bring about 100 fans to Denton when they play here.

If Tulane gets a Big XII invite, the Bevo 12 might as well just call themselves the SWC again, because it would start looking like the old mismatch of big public schools and private universities.

What an embarrassing thread this turned into--on many, many levels.

This would be perfect to me. 5-team pod: Tulsa, Rice, UTEP, New Mexico, and La Tech 6-team pod: add Tulane All games against border states or in-state institutions. I think this thing will start at 18, BTW, with Temple in the East and either F_U, La Tech, or us in the middle to fill up CUSA. Unfortunately, I think it will be in that order for the 18th team, just because of the influence ECU, Marshall, UAB, and USM have in this. If they eventually go to 20, I think we will be in for sure. And I think if it gets to 24, MUTS, WKU, Utah State, and SJSU will lead the way. IF UAB and SJSU both drop down, as has been suggested, ULaLa and UTSA probably will get those spots. But, my guess is this will start at 18 and get to 20 within the next few years, which will help the Alliance determine who of those left behind will provide the most bang in the next addition. If we get left out this go around, I figure that we have about 3 years to get things turned around in football to warrant an invite to a 20-team league.

I will go ahead and say that I HIGHLY DOUBT SMU, TCU, OR UTA are in better shape than we are or will be for the next few years. Even with UTA's new facility, they will average about 2500 for games--that is the purest example of commuter school ever. I am not worried about them in the slightest, unless we bring them into the SBC. If that happens, then I think you could see some issues with them, recruiting-wise. Yes, SMU and TCU have money and are in new conferences, but those conferences are unbelievably stout. Sure, their attendance should get a huge bump, since they get games against Kansas, Texas, OU, UConn, Georgetown, and Notre Dame, amongst others. But I don't see TCU getting their program up to a point where they can compete at the top end of the Big XII--and they have a better chance to do that than SMU ever will in the Big East. SMU will make DePaul look good in conference play, and TCU will probably be at the bottom of the Big XII for years to come. This is where North Texas has it better in the college basketball world. Since everyone gets a chance in the NCAA Basketball model, playing in the SBC, which is not a bad league usually, or even in the new Alliance, which has some very good basketball teams, helps our program to have much better tournament opportunities than any TCU or SMU will have. Plus, if you are in a conference that UTA plays in, the best seed you could possibly see is still around a 14. We have seen years where a SBC champion, much like MUTS probably this year, will get a pretty decent seed, somewhere in the 8-13 range, where you at least have a chance. That's not even counting where Alliance teams usually get seeded. Attendance may not get the boost that the other private schools get, but we have seen increasing support for our team over the last few years in the SBC. I think we will be ok, if we can keep up the success that we have been building up. Next year, we could very easily be like MUTS this year if things go in the right direction for us. I feel like this is the best position our basketball team has probably ever been in decades.

They aren't...

The Aggies neded a home game, since they only had 4 scheduled, as well as an OOC game at SMU already. They weren't coming here.

Great post--I get an even better understanding of the walk you guys make every day when I read stuff like this. Let me be the first to tell you how much I appreciate what you do, especially in Dallas. I knwo there are quite a few other police forces that would have a bit less "activity" to hassle with than in Dallas. You guys really are heroes--its one of things I try to teach my children every day, so that they always know that you guys are out there trying to protect us from the bad stuff that both bad and good people choose to do every day.

ArkSt Fan, you are a great poster and I enjoy your perspective, but there is no doubt what league would be better for the university's major athletic teams. Ask yourself who the typical ASU fan would want to watch the Red Wolves play in a conference football game--Florida Atlantic or East Carolina, Louisiana-Monroe or Fresno State, Troy or Southern Miss? How about in hoops--Western Kentucky or New Mexico? Middle Tennessee or UAB? Florida International or UNLV? I don't know about Jonesboro, AR, but in our area, in today's world, I can get people to go and watch 0-12 New Mexico come to Apogee while I couldn't get anyone to go watch us play a bowl-eligible Western Kentucky. The reason is that we have UNM fans here in Texas and people know folks connected to New Mexico, not WKU. I know the first thing that will get brought up about playing in the Alliance is our attendance against the old Big West was bad, but that was before we had made any significant upgrades to our program, and more importantly, the Alliance won't contain all of the following schools: NMSU, Utah State, and Idaho, all of which were in the same boat as us back then. I firmly believe that playing a home game against Nevada today would get much more attendance than it did 15 years ago here. Sure, games against Marshall may not increase attendance more than a home game against Troy, but it would compard to a game against Western Kentucky, two teams from the same region of the country. I would be willing to bet that the same things would be true if ASU was able to get into the Alliance. Its a significant step up in the conference ladder chain, long-term. Even if the WAC and SBC combine, which I bet will happen in some fashion, the TV money and name recognition of most of the conference opponents in the Alliance are still much better than the WAC/SBC will ever be. Again, maybe its different in Jonesboro, but selling Western Kentucky, South Alabama, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, Middle Tennessee, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, and Troy is a tough deal in this metro area. The DFW media literally couldn't care less about those schools, which filters down to the fans.