untjim1995

No matter what you think of UTSA and their fast rise up, no one can argue about those home games in OOC. They have two good OOC home games every year going forward, if this listing above is correct. To me, they are taking advantage of their location and situation perfectly. They may end being the laughing stock of FBS, but I actually think they will become a good program in the next decade. The San Antonio media will prop them up big time to give them support.

As I read this thread, this is exactly who crossed my mind. Famous thoughts while watching his UNT teams play: Run the ball all three downs before punting. Take about 10 decent passing attempts per game. Run out the clock. Have defense get some stops and turnovers. Finish the game as quick as possible. If our fans are bored now, then a lot of them would have felt like they just took sleeping pills during the last two years of Dickey's tenure here. Those were some really boring games. As bad as Dodge's teams were, boring might have been the only term that you couldn't use to criticze the ineptness of their play, which is probably why Dodge enjoyed higher attendance averages than Dickey did while HFC.

I just think the biggest jump that a program makes isn't from bad to mediocre, its going from mediocre to good. The players have to find a way to win these games and not to accept losing. The hardest part to that is the fact that this group of players has only known UNT as a losing program. At some point, you either turn the corner or you go backward. This team has the ability to win out--and they have the same ability to lose out. Two close games in the last two weeks have gone against us because we couldn't make enough plays on all sides of the ball to win in the 4th quarter. Once we make those plays consistently and start winning those close games, we will make that jump to being good. UNtil then...

Maybe I didn't make my sarcasm very clear. I don't think that will ever happen here, but to get the culture change Silver was talking about, that's the only way he will ever see what he wants from a support standpoint.

At this point, I'd take 2-4. Just don't come into that ULL game at 1-5.

I actually see this as good news for us little guys-- although it is a very nice way to CYA by the AQ leagues to squelch any possible litigation from the non-AQ schools or their home states. It sure beats the heck out of the AQs running off and creating (officially) their own new coalition to keep it all to themselves.

I'm not sure that a huge culture change is possible in Denton. You would be changing a century of apathy toward athletics. Its better now than it probably ever has been, but the College of Music is still the biggest draw from the local citizenry and we still have a lot of "fans" who come to a game just to watch the Green Brigade march at halftime and then they are gone afterwards. I'm not sure that any team in this state not named Texas or A&M can really sustain itself with constant losing or playing a schedule of home games against teams that the state-wide media just won't cover. In building a sustainable fanbase, I just think the biggest key is getting to play big name teams and playing those games on major networks on Saturdays during the season. I think about a team like Tech, that just soared upward back in 2008 when just about everything went their way, until they played OU in Norman. They had been building a decent program for a while, then got a few special recurits (Crabtree and Harrell) and made something happen against teams that were big names and also ranked. In turn, they got huge rankings and huge viewership because of those variables I mentioned. But now, just 4 years later, if Tech isn't playing a big name team, their games aren't nearly as big of a deal, even if they still get decent crowds out there in Lubbock. They aren't what they were in 2008 and 2009, and now that Tuberville hasn't really shown their fans any reason to believe that the good ol'days of Leach are ever coming back, their support will dwindle even more--just like it has at the other Texas schools when they aren't very good. Baylor and TCU have commnuity (church and city) backing, which is what allows them to try and compete with AQ teams at a higher level, but even then they don't get big crowds unless they are winning big. SMU and Rice don't have that same support, so they don't get any attention. As we have seen with UTEP--and I suspect UTSA if they can win down there--the bigger metro areas that don't have a pro team will support their winning teams in a big way, since they are the only gig in town, but don't at all when they are not good. A team like UH can draw nicely when they win, but they lose a lot of those fair-weather fans when they aren't that great, just because Houston is so big and has lots of other interests (i.e., pro teams) to take away from their support. That is what North Texas faces, too. Denton is not that different from other places when it comes to the fair-weather fans, but it has been completely different, in that for decades, the animosity it has felt for North Texas athletics has been ridiculous. Most other towns wouldn't let their home university play in a toilet bowl for 50 years, nor would they have allowed the university to drop down to 1-aa, but Denton was just fine with both of those and really never embraced us moving back up to 1-A back in 1995. That part, although it has changed some, still prevails in a big way up there. If you don't believe that, just think of how the student fee passed and how mad people were that it got passed. Unfortunately, that type of thought won't go away in Denton unless you get what Tech got, which has been to gain full favor with UT. Because, just as TCU, Baylor, and SMU have found out, having Texas on your side can make a big difference in $$$$ and media coverage in this state. When you don't have it or lose it like TCU, UH. and SMU have seen in the past two decades, you just don't get the attention that the other UT-affiliated schools get. And, to show that it isn't just here, look at Tulane or La Tech without LSU, Tulsa without OU, and especially Arkansas State without Arkansas. Culturally speaking, none of those schools ever have a chance to build a seriously strong amount of support when there is one dominant program in your state, unless you win big constantly, which rarely happens over a long period of time. Its just how NFL-lite schools operate. They choose those they want to partner with and let them suck on the hound, so to speak. And the fans in these states follow the other schools other than the big guy just because the big guy is in their league or plays them every year. If you want the truest culture change as was mentioned earlier, get North Texas in the Big XII with Texas, Tech, Baylor, and TCU. Get in the SEC with A&M. And then win--because otherwise, we just stay in the same boat that all of the other schools not named Texas and A&M get to enjoy in this state. Sadly, in this state, you just have to depend on them to garner media attention and then beat them to gain support that can last a lifetime--that is what TCU, Baylor, and Tech have all done, even if it also catches a lot of fair-weather fans, too.

I don't think anyone believes we should be getting 4* DL or even OL right now. Realistically, it will take winning big in CUSA to even get a look from those types. At our level, the best thing we have going for us is that McCarney (much like Patterson at TCU) has a reputation for "coaching up" kids, especially on the lines. People, we have seen a night and day difference, between McCarney in 1+ season and what Dodge focused on with his gimmicky-offensive schemes and poor recruiting of defensive talent that couldn't win at this level. Its just going to take a lot of time to build this up--just like it did at Iowa State. The hole that Dickey and Doge put this place in was so big that we let a 5-win season fool us a bit. It took Coach Mac 5 years to build a winner in Ames, while competing aginst Nebraska, Kansas State, Iowa in OOC every year, Oklahoma, Texas, Tech, A&M, OSU, Mizzou, and even a few good Kansas teams during that timeframe. In terms of relativity, from as far back as we are right now, just to be able to not be the worst FBS team in Texas that is not a start-up is saying something. Because just last year--and the previous 6 to be honest--we were the worst team in Texas, and the other SBC schools and WAC schools were able to get kids that wouldn't go to Denton because we sucked and our future was nothing but bleak. Now, its not that way. To illustrate just how "bad" things are right now under Coach Mac, we are grumbling over a poor performance and one TD loss against a team that has traditionally been the best the SBC has offered since our "glory" days ended in 2004. Troy is usually a solid program and has built itself to a point where they can hang with ranked teams if they have the right talent down there. Under the previous regimes, how many games like this one against Troy would have been absolute ass-kickings, something to the tune of Troy 49, UNT 7 ? Think about games against Tulsa since 2005 or absolute blowouts against FIU, Troy, or, gulp, Rice, where we could have easily lost that game 100-21 if they hadn't stepped off the gas in the 4th quarter that year. That is where we were...for a looonnnnggg time, until the university finally decided to step up and do something about it. We all wish we were going in the direction of WKU or ULM right now, in part because we have been playing football much longer than those two teams, but the best chance we have to build something is for the talent on this team to continue to get "coached up" and get to a point where we can actually do something so special that people around the state and country won't continue to call us North Texas State. When that happens, then 4* kids will at least listen to a coach from UNT seriously. Until then, it will continue to be a steady diet of 1* and 2* HS kids, with a 3* mixed in here or there.

Here's the issue here. All we have been able to recruit folks to play at UNT was to play at Fouts and in the SBC, until the last few years. Going to CUSA should help on recruiting, but we aren't going to get a 4* HS kid here, unless its a coach's relative. The BIg XII, SEC, Notre Dame, other AQ power names, and a kid who lives in inner-city Houston that wants to stay at home at UH are where the 4 star kids go in this state. Sure, we can find examples of UNT getting a 4 or 5 star HS kid, but realistically, with a decades long history of suck football and support, the chances of getting HS kids that are ranked even 3 stars is very tough, but at least doable. The thing that should help us out with CUSA and recruiting is that a recruit's family members can actually attend a lot of games, where the SMU recruits, UH recruits, and Texas State recruits won't be able to say the same thing. BTW, it won't surprise me if UTSA gets an occasional 4* HS kid from down there that decides to stay close to home in SA. For many reasons, we know that Denton kids don't want to play here because of the way the town and university leadership has traditionally looked down on the program. The only thing Coach Mac can do to change that is to develop 1* and 2* talent into good solid players--which is exactly what he did at Iowa State. His method for building this program will take longer, since he has basically ignored the all-in JUCO route, but it may end up being Year 4 before we see a winning record here. I think next year, this team will be his best, but with the step up in conference competition, I envision a 5-6 win season. Maybe it will be Year three that ends up being the big break-thru year, like most of us thought when he got hired, but I think we still have a long way to go to be a winning program.

I'll stick with a 5-7 wins. This team is still trying to learn how to win and they aren't going to get many breaks in the last SBC season. I see us winning the next game at FAU, but I see us losing at UH. That ULL game is a toss up, but I suspect that we will lose that one. After that, in no particular order, I see wins over South Alabama for sure and probably wisn over MUTS and Arky State. I think ULM and WKU will be losses, just because I think they are the class of the Belt this year.

I just don't know how you go on after something like this. I can't fathom losing the love of my life in such a senseless, tragic fashion. Guys, hug your wives/girlfriends when you see them. Do the same thing to your parents and kids, too. Its in times like this, that we are reminded of just how fleeting this life of ours really is. Faith, no matter how you feel about it, gets tested. And in a situation like this, I sure hope that Sean and Heather's family feel the prayers we are offering to them--they're gonna need every single one of them.

This is what I worried about with Benford as the hire. If he does well, Tech will buy him. If he doesn't, then we will be wasting a great team. My guess is the former, not the latter. Tech will have loads of cash to pay, as compared to us. But, just we said about T-Mitch, lets just enjoy the season ahead and see where we go from there. But, just as I thought when we hired Benford, it will just be a matter of time before he ends up in Lubbock again, assuming that he has success here. I liked Fraschilla myself to avoid this possible situation occurring, but Benford may end up loving it here and thinking that CUSA would provide a much better outlet for coaching success for the long-term than coaching at his alma mater in the Big XII. I doubt it, but we'll see after this season.

I guarantee you that if we were playing Baylor (or any other old SWC team), our crowd would look great when we play on ESPN. Playing Louisiana-Lafayette won't be quite as attractive to our fans as getting a home game versus Baylor is to ULM.

I can only imagine what the attendance will be like when South Alabama rolls into town...

I think the SBC has done well for itself, considering it all. The budgets are small, the media is poor to non-existent, and the schools themselves don't appeal to a lot of fans. That said, the NO Bowl tie-in was genius and the fact that the league survived the chaos of NMSU, Utah State, and Idaho leaving by identifying FAU and FIU as replacements was huge. As a matter of fact, that is a big reason why the SBC survived and the WAC died. But I wouldn't read too much into the "success" that the SBC has had this season. ULM has played great, but the names on the front of the jersey of their last two opponents is vastly better than their performance so far. If that wasn't true, ULM would be ranked right now. As a matter of fact, if ULM beats Baylor at home this week, then they should be ranked, no questions asked. But the SBC perception is still so bad in the media that even that is a 50/50 proposition at best. Most of those media members feel that these AQ teams just take for granted the "pesky" and "lightly-regarded" SBC teams, and if they lose or barely win, then that team gets the penalty, while the SBC team gets very little recognition, other than an "Attaboy" from the CFB elite media. At the very least, CUSA has teams that get the proper recognition from those media members if they do exactly the same thing that ULM and WKU have done. I don't know how much longer the SBC teams will deal with that problem, but I do know its not going away anytime soon. If you ask anyone who is in the know about CFB, the SBC on-field performance is better than the MAC and probably not too much worse than CUSA at this time. But the ESPN/CBS Sports/Fox Sports media don't acknowledge it at all, probably because none of them pay much attention to anyone outside of the Big Five conferences anyway.

I think the alternative black jersey would play just fine, as long as it actually looked like something other than the Hutch Youth Black Jersey that Dickey rolled out with from the local Academy. And the final score will not be close today. Kansas State will score over 50, while we will be around 14.

I wouldn't be surprised if this game gets out of hand quick. K-State usually gets off to slow starts in the season opener, but then they put it all together int he weeks ahead. They are a very good running team, as mentioned earlier, and their QB, Klein, is a beast. I just want to get out of this game without any major injuries. After this game, we will play games that will actually let us know how good or bad we really are, except for the game at home against South Alabama, which we SHOULD win easily. Everyone else on the schedule will tell us what kind of progress we are making. Unfortunately, K-State isn't one of those teams we are really able to match up with yet.

This is exactly why the pre-seson polls are ridiculous. With all of the off-season mess that Petrino caused at Arkansas, anyone could see that the Hogs were not going to be as good as they were last year. You just don't change coaches at the top, even if it is a promotion from within or to bring back a guy back for a second tour of duty like they have done with John L. Smith, and not expect a dropoff. They are just not very good, nowhere near a top ten team. Its a great win for ULM, no doubt, and they deserve a ton of credit for the victory, especially considering the lack of resources that ULM has against pretty much everyone. But don't fool yourself, even though Arkansas killed K-State in the Cotton Bowl in January, KSU would return the favor big-time this year. This is another great example as to why the BCS doesn't introduce its own polls until later in the season.

That OU game actually made me feel like we were something special, even thoguh we lost 37-3. I knew then that we would kill Baylor the next week. That OU team obliterated every other Texas team in the Big XII, including a 77-0 beatdwon of Texas A&M and a 65-13 beatdown of Texas in the Cotton Bowl.

One thing to add--Fresno State beat lots of OOC teams that were big names, yet always failed to win their conference. I actually think they proved that beating a big name school was better for your program than to win your non-AQ conference. Also, the $$$ from the AQ bodybag games are necessary for the AD to pay for the non-revenue sports here. Its just the way it is for schools who aren't in the Big 5 conferences (not the Big East). However, the smarter strategy is to play Pac-12, Big Ten, and ACC schools that aren't top five right now, but can still provide a decent paycheck. You don't play the top teams from the NFL-lite league at their places in the first month of the season and expect it to go very well. If you are going to play those type of teams, play them later in the year, like late October or November, when you might be able to pull an upset or at least give that giant a game. I've seen Troy give Georgia and LSU great games in November, and I've seen ULM beat Alabama in November. That's what I wish we would do for OOC games. If UT or OU wanted us to play them every year in OOC, that would be fine with me, if for nothing else that to gain the media and fan attention that those two opponents bring to us when we play them. Make them our permanent OOC bodybag games and flip-flop them every year. But playing games against any SEC team that is not named Vandy, Texas A&M, Mizzou, Kentucky, Mississippi State, or Ole Miss is not smart, no matter how much they pay us.

Its possible that, other than everything GL2Greatness (and all of her other usernames) has posted, this is about as ridiculous as it gets here on this board. If this is indeed your first season of following UNT football, I will inform you that in all of the body bag games we have played against Texas, OU, Alabama, Arkansas, LSU, or Clemson in the last 10 years, this is about as good as it has been. If its not your first season, then I have no idea where you have been following college football for the last 4-5 decades. Actually, its better than the others--because they paid us more than anyone else, which means that our other non-revenue sports will still get funded. Unfortunately, since this is still what is needed at North Texas to fund our AD, due to usually lackluster home opponents to draw decent crowds for, this is how business is done here. Accepting losing was not what this game was about--accepting cash while not getting killed or embarrassed was the goal. Having witnessed OU beat us 79-10, Texas beat us 65-0 and 56-7, LSU and Alabama usually keep us from scoring a TD, etc...sometimes you have to recgonize that things aren't really meant to go your way when all you are doing is prostituting yourself for $$$. Bodybag games at ranked SEC and Big XII powers aren't really geared to be anything but a re-enactment of the Lions vs Christians in the Colosseum. We survived, banked some cashed, avoided a major embarrassment, gained a bit of respect for never giving up, and moved on to a game where we get to be the Lions while the opponent gets to be the Christians. But I will tell you this, if we beat Texas Southern 41-14, I'll accept that win just like I have accpeted this outcome. Coach Mac had us play that game about as close as the talent differential would allow in front of 92k rabid fans at nighttime. At least that is my take...

You basically got exactly what you wanted!!

UTSA didn't tell their alumni and students that they should accept a demotion in the level of football like North Texas did--and then kept it that way for 12 years, while the other schools in its vicinity were still playing at a very high level in the only conference that mattered to fans and the media in this state at that time. UTSA probably used us as an example of what not to do when making this move upward. They used their market, their media, and their major facility near them all to their advantage. We literally did none of that for 80+ years. I'm more envious of the fact that their leadership recognized the advantages they had and ran with it to CUSA. It stil boggles my mind to this day that it took a poster from this board to basically organize a big enough coalition of students to pass a referendum to build a new facility that by itself has allowed us to gain admittance to CUSA. Because, make now mistake about it, if we hadn't passed the fee to build Apogee, which the AD had proved it couldn't do, and we were still playing at Fouts, our future would probably be no brighter than playing in the SBC and knowing that the FBS sickle would be culling us out again. UTSA may not gain your respect because of their easier road, but they have definitely gained my respect in avoiding the train wrecks that we made during our long road to CUSA admittance.

This result is a harbinger of what is to come for that program for the next decade (bare minimum). Penn State will be a historic name--nothing more, nothing less in 2022. Its also why the sanctions they receive will do the job they were meant to do to Penn State, without giving them the death penalty.

SMU has about 100 years of connections with Baylor and A&M--both of those schools fanbase remember conference games with SMU and view them as a worthy OOC opponent these days. SWC membership had its privileges--this is just one more example of it still helping today.