untjim1995

Let's not go there. JJ had just taken over for Trilli the first. Then he built the thing up from the ashes, with a couple of bumps in the road as he was learning on the job. The he builds this thing up incrementally to the point where we aren't just getting bids to the NCAAs or making it to tournament finals, his team became extremely talented. Then Trilli the second got hired. Forgive me if I don't buy into the hype. As other posters said, I'll believe it when I see it. I would be willing to give him more support if he can just get us back to close to .500 next year. BUt I am seriously expecting about 7-8 wins. Prove us wrong, Benford and RV...prove us all wrong.

The answer is very easy to understand, PMG. Both Texas State and UTSA have the full athletic fee per semester hour that is being charged ($20) to their students and it not set to ever end. Here, at UNT, we have a $10/hr athletics fee that can go higher if the leaders wanted it to, but they are content at the level it is at so that it keeps tuition at a level that equates to being a "value". Also, those two schools never told their alumni and fans that FBS football doesn't matter that much, like we did for over 12 years. Not only did you lose a few generations of fans by doing this, the alumni who you lost back then are at points in their lives where they can give more back to the university, since they are in their 40s and 50s now. Instead, the large classed of graduates from 1982-1994 basically placed their fandom--and money--with the pro teams in the area or with other schools that are cool to be associated with. Neither Texas State, nor UTSA, have to deal with any of these issues. Their athletic coffers, particularly on the revenue side, show that an emphasis on sports is already helping their programs to move upward. Will it continue that way? Who knows. But the fact remains that their leaders want to build up their football programs and they are unapologetically chargin the full student fee for athletics to get it promoted faster.

Well, Tech plays SMU in OOC and they play Baylor in the Metroplex every year. If it were me, I would be talking to Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska, Missouri, and Colorado and sell them on playing a game every other year in the DFW area. Of course, the first three teams play at TCU every other year, so that may suffice for them, but I bet they would like to have another game every year in DFW to keep their presence here for recruiting. The last three names I mentioned would have already been on my call list as soon as they left the Big XII. They lost their presence here in the Metroplex or in Texas by leaving the Big XII. Hell, play Nebraska in Jerry World or in the Cotton Bowl if you have to have a bigger venue. But then we get back to reality. A team not as good as Nebraska and probably on par with Missouri is Iowa. And we don't even get to play them in a game here. Last year, Northern Illinois played Iowa in Chicago at Soldier Field, so we know that they aren't opposed to playing OOC games away from Iowa City. But, again, we are back to reality in Denton...the AD is in good shape with the majority of the fans and BOR because he opened up tailgating and doesn't ask for too much money from the administration. OOC scheduling, hiring winners, keeping losers, etc...they don't matter like the first two points do to the majority of UNT family. As long as we can tailgate before a game against Texas Southern, Idaho, or Ball State in home OOC games, we are just fine here...and RV can continue to coast in what has to be one of the clearest roles an AD can have as the main job requirement--just don't cost us a lot of money.

Fouts is supposed to be a terrific track and field stadium. I'm sure that hundreds of fans agree with that. Its just sad that thousands of fans had to put up with watching football in a stadium that was perfect for track and field for so long. The day that place gets demolished won't be a bitter day for me. Trust me, as someone who worked in that place for 4.5 years, that place was the ultimate dump.

I've posted on this subject many times in the past, but the real Division 1 split is coming--whether its with the NCAA or not. The NCAA knows that it will lose everything if the big AQs split off, so they aren't going to stop this train. They know that the networks, politicians, and bowls won't stop this, either. The top dogs have too much power, both economically and politically. I'm not sure who will get included in the top qualification, but my guess is that there will be probably be about 80 teams that make it in the top level. The current AQ leagues make up 64 teams. Add in BYU and Notre Dame and you are at 66. It could just stop there, but my guess is that teams like the higher end teams in the MWC and AAC will gain admittance, as well, teams like UConn, USF, Cincy, UH, UCF, ECU, Memphis, Fresno State, Boise State, San Diego State, UNLV, Nevada, Colorado State, and New Mexico. You could see 4 leagues of 20 or 5 leagues of 16 in that arrangement. That way, you gain control of almost every major state legislature and the NCAA, ESPN, Fox, and the other networks are happy, as is the big media that covers them. What I have wondered about often is how a team like SMU will react at being left behind in the arrangement I just listed above. Here in Denton, we are used to playing the dregs of FBS football. Hell, we've been used to playing FCS schedules. Its not like it would be that different to play Louisiana-Monroe as a new i-aa opponent again. But a team like SMU, whose fans and alums watched them go from being a SWC power to falling down to where they are today, could really suffer if it has to sell its fans on playing as a new 1-aa program. I can almost see them quit football before accepting that.

I tend to agree here with your post, since there is so much time until that season gets here and who knows who is going to buy out games on their schedules between now and then. That said, this doesn't surprise me at all that we have 5 games that year in Denton. The AD will sell the hell out of playing our "rival", SMU, at home--except that SMU could care less about that game as a rivalry. AS I have said numerous times, SMU as the premier home opponent is small-time. To me, and I know that I may be in the minority here, but SMU at home is nice, but it shouldn't be the only OOC game at home in a year, nor should it be considered the same thing as getting an AQ team here, like ULM did with Baylor last season. UTEP played Oklahoam in El Paso last year. SMU got the Aggies in Dallas and will get Tech again real soon. The only time we have gotten the OOC schedule right, in my opinon, was in 2011, with UH and Indiana as home OOC opponents. Last year's home schedule was as bad as a FBS school can schedule for its fans, so I don't know that it will ever get duplicated, but 2015 won't be substantially better to me. 4 SBCUSA teams and SMU won't sell a lot of season ticket packages around here.

You know, as much as I hate these OOC games at SEC teams, if you are going to schedule one, this is the way to do it. Play them later in the year when they are in the middle of conference play. ULM beat Alabama in Tuscaloosa in November. Troy gave away a game at LSU in November a few years ago and they gave a highly ranked Georgia squad all they could handle in an OOC game in November. Maybe we will get stomped in another bodybag game, but I'll take my chances in a game against an OOC heavyweight in November than in the first 3 weeks of the season.

OK, Brett Vito knows the pulse of the athletic department more than any other person in town that doesn't actually work at UNT. You just don't like what he reports... And I'm cool with what you post about firing a first-year coach--it usually costs too much to do. But the person who did the hiring can be dealt with sternly. At a bare minimum, after hiring Todd Dodge, Shanice Stephens, and now Tony Benford, RV should get a cut in pay. I cannot think of one other place where the AD who was responsible for the hires of the three main sports that are considered 3 of the worst hires in school history would keep his job. RV may have done a great job with tailgating and being positive about UNT Athletics to fans and the media, but the AD needs to hire the right personnel. And if Dan McCarney doesn't win here in the next two years, you can add yet another bad hire to the list.

Do you re-watch other tragedies on television, too?

This gem should not be forgotten...well played, greenminer!!

OSU has won big time against people that fans care about, including a Big XII title and wins in their last two bowl games. I am willing to be that a UNT Coaches Caravan would have 1000s, too, if we had beaten Oklahoma, Texas, TCU, K-State, Texas A&M, Stanford, Purdue, Baylor, and others in the last two years. Instead, we have some people who are shocked that 1000s don't show up after we had 9 wins in the last two seasons, with wins against Indiana, Florida Atlantic (twice), Louisiana-Monroe, Louisiana-Lafayette, Middle Tennesse, Troy, Texas Southern, and South Alabama. Anyone else see a difference there? This isn't even comparable. I'd be willing to bet that attendance at a concert of UNT's music department would crush OSU's though. Scoreboard...

Jason Collins hates this post...

I love the fact that you continue to come over here to scoreboard us. We get it--you've been able to kill North Texas in the last two years. Wow, who else could say that? Oh wait...almost everyone who was given the chance. IOW, you aren't exactly anything special or different Cougar HIgh Queen. Also, almost everyone you will ever talk to that has any knowledge of UH and its campus knows that it is basically in the hood. Its not a place that most people want to venture over to, especially at nighttime. What a crappy place to go to school. I guess that's why its been known as Cougar High for as long as it has, because no one wants to live near there--they want to get back home as soon as possible. Look, you all are better than UNT at sports. We get it. Is that what you want to read? If so, good riddance. I just did our board a huge favor. To put this into perspective that maybe you can understand, most of us would never go post on New Mexico State's board to scoreboard them on being a better FBS program, even after we beat them. We should be better than them. Likewise, with your SWC inclusion in this state and your huge enrollment of commuter students, you SHOULD be better than us. So congratulations on that major achievement...I mean that must make you feel really cool right now. And as cool as you feel right now, I am begging you not to go outside and stop some short bus full of kids and make fun of them and beat them up even though your posts make EVERYONE believe that you would be that guy who does just that.

The quick answer is no... Also, asking TCU for help in getting attendance and support going like they have is probably unnecessary. TCU has Ft. Worth on its side and is a big town that has only them as its major university. Their students and alums are usually from money. NOne of those apply to us in Denton. We share Denton with another big school in town, Texas Womans, and the city isn't real interested in college sports. To me, SMU won't get anywhere with any of this either. Dallas is a pro sports town first, a BIg XII town second. Ft. Worth looks at itself as its own town, with a little more connection to the Rangers than anyone else, but TCU is their hometown team. Dallas-ites don't look at SMu that way, even if the folks at Belo want you to believe otherwise.

I'm prepared to see us win about 3 or 4 games at best if Thompson is the qb all year. He doesn't have it. Scott Hall had it. Mitch Maher had it. Scott Davis had it. Since 1988, that's your UNT QB list of highly accomplished leaders. Andrew Smith might have had it but we will never know. Woody Wilson might have had it, but he wasn't given a fair shake here. But Derek Thompson looks like Daniel Meager, Matt Phillips, Richard Bridges, Jason Attaway, Jason Mills, etc...folks who were good guys, but not good QBs for an entire season. If DT is your QB, I see the following games as possible wins: Idaho, Tulane, UTSA, and maybe UTEP. That's it. If Berglund cannot beat Thompson and McNulty out, I have severe doubts he will ever play here. The interesting part of this for UNT fans following the program right now is to see who progresses more--Scotty Young at La Tech or Berglund here. If Scotty Young leads La Tech to bowl eligibility (who knows if snooty La Tech will ever go to a bowl game that is beneath them) and we are just a 4 win team or worse, I wouldn't want to be Dan McCarney having to answer about that. La Tech is replacing almost their entire starting units and have a brand new coach--granted, he is experienced and has won at other places as a head coach before--so expecting any huge season out of them will sit squarely on Young's shoulders in Ruston. This is a team that we all should expect our program to be able to compete with in Year 3 of the current regime. But I just don't know if DT is the QB here if we can really stay with them--and that won't help recruiting pick up one bit if we keep losing to the current CUSA teams that we are supposed to recruit against.

Andrew, you probably would've been wise to let this one play out without posting...you know, just like every thread you post on.

I think what SMU deals with on this is even worse than what we have to deal with. SMU is located smack dab in the middle of a big city that only cares about winners--but it has to be winners that matter, i.e., pro teams, Texas, OU, A&M, Tech, etc...The only time that SMU was ever relevant to the market that drew big crowds in the last 35 years was during their pay-for-play days. They got to be a regular Top 20 team AND had the benefit of playing the big name SWC schools to help with the attendance, too. They haven't had those now in 20-25 years. UNT fans don't come to games for a lot of reasons, but the biggest reason is that we don't play teams that people care to watch in person. We have never played anyone in conference play that gets a big draw. SMU, since 1995, has pretty much dealt with the same thing. I can't imagine how much it sucks for a typical SMU rich-guy alum who gets lucky enough to go watch SMU play Temple, when he was a student, the worst conference game he saw was SMU and Rice. If it weren't for TCU on their schedule, SMU alums wouldn't have even one opponent on their schedule that matters to them. Maybe Houston, but... SMU alums don't care about Houston in the same way they did about Texas A&M. They don't care about Tulane in the way they cared about Baylor. They don't care about Tulsa like they did about Texas Tech. Keep in mind, this isn't even counting the two huge heavyweights of the SWC days--Texas and Arkansas, who both guaranteed a huge crowd just by hosting the game, whether it was at the Cotton Bowl, Texas Stadium, or Ownby Stadiumwhen they played the Hogs or Horns. They got left behind, as well as they should have. Their repeated infractions, small size, and their eventual fallback to being a perennial loser were too much to overcome. Baylor had none of those stigmas when they got included in the Big XII. TCU figured out a way to get FW behind them and to win against teams that people had heard of, but didn't have the advantages on a recruiting front that TCU had. Now, they both got the invite to the big boys table. SMU won't get that, even if they started winning at a TCU-type level. The demand for a private school with a small enrollment isn't going to get any AQs attention unless you do what TCU did--go to huge AQ games and finish in the top 5. And if you aren't AQ--now or in the future, especially--your attendance in an area like Dallas isn't going to be anything that special. If you are a monied fan in Dallas, most likely your sports dollars are spent on the following: Cowboys, Mavs, Rangers, Stars, Texas-OU, Cotton Bowl game, going to college games in Austin, College Station, Lubbock, Norman, Stillwater, Fayetteville, etc.., then games at TCU or Baylor, then SMU. Actually, fans in Highland Park and University Park probably pay more $$ to follow HPHS than SMU. If SMU got games against those Big XII powers every week, that would obviously change. But that ship has sailed for SMU. Our situation is really apples to oranges with SMU. I don't know if we won against the current SBCUSA schools if that would really move the needle with a big jump in attendance at Apogee--I'd like to think it would and that it would get us to a point where we saw 25k crowds often in Denton. But in the midst of a 26 game conference winning streak and a 4 year SBC championship run, our attendance still averaged around 15-18k. Since we still mostly play those teams still in conference, and with an OOC schedule that usually isn't all that great, I just don't know if we will see that kind of jump. Fans in this area of college football care about the Big AQ teams first--its how they were raised. I'm not sure that this can ever change--unless you are somehow fortunate enough to play those schools at home every year or two. SMUs alumni saw those teams regularly--but their cheating killed their program from ever being in the big boys leagues. I wouldn't blame them for just walking away from that. But the UNT fan hasn't even had that luxury. We are thrilled to trade Louisiana-Monroe for Louisiana Tech, even though it probably won't bring more than a extra 1000 or two to a home game in Denton. Its just the sad history of being an outsider, both because of schools like SMU in the SWC and because our leadership didn't want us to ever be a bigtime athletic school.

I call it stealth because the AD couldn't or wouldn't even speak up during the run-up to the election for the simple reason that everyone knew that it would sway the faculty and NT Daily even more so to get out the vote against the new stadium fee, just as it had the previous time that RV got involved. After the vote was done, if you'll remember, several people came out and basically screamed about how so many people didn't know about the election, that the Athletic Department never promoted it enough to get the attention it deserved. That's why I called it "stealth"--it was actually genius by the AD not to get involved, becasue that was the only way it had a chance of passing. Otherwise, we still play at Fouts right now in the SBC, with a very real possibility of having to drop back down to FCS or get rid of football since the crumbling stadium couldn't handle the needs of FBS program in today's world.

Dude, we had to replace Fouts or football was going to end here. That place was running only be connecting multiple generators to it. Even then, it took basically a stealth vote to get it passed. Apogee had to be built for us to even keep a team. If that makes you feel like we care ENOUGH about athletics, then you an dI just have to agree to disagree here. It has been well noted that this place didn't even try to allow major donors to have their information availble to be contacted by the athletic department so that the other areas of the university wouldn't suffer in donations. You are right about JJ--I don't blame him or the university a bit, although you should know that he looked hard at the Auburn job, just becasue of the money, but they hired Tony Barbee from UTEP. Maybe he wouldn't have left here, but the money interested him greatly. I've never blamed the university for not trying to keep him here, though, since LSU is home for him. But I completely blame them for hiring an unknown assistant who has never been a head coach to take over the most talented team in the history of the school. That's buying cheap, my friend, which, in my book, is not being serious about athletics. I've seen this place hire--and keep--Todd Dodge, Vic Trilli, and Shanice Stephens at the helm of the most important money sports. Not a one of them had ever been a head coach before. In the first two cases, we only fired those two when it was affordable enough to pay a buyout. That's not serious to me. Ask anyone in the Metroplex what they know about UNT and the first two things that will probably get identified are the music department and being an educators' college. Very noble aspects, too. But, as you mentioned, they don't exactly bring in a ton of money in donations back to the university, nor do they provide very big opportunities for the university family to feel connected to this place like athletics can. But we haven't invested enough in either of the main sports to create theat connection. Hell, we told everyone that we would rather play 1-aa football than pay to stay above the line that literally nuked what was left of a fanbase in the early 80s. The local beat writer, Brett Vito, just told me the other day, as I posted, that the university needs to look at what they want with the football program if McCarney cannot turn it around here. He knows, just like everyone else in Denton knows, that if he cannot do it, that he cannot turn this thing into a winner, even though his reputation in the college world is known almost solely as a turnaround specialist, then the question exists as to whether you can build a winner here, since an unknown assistants, well-known high school coaches, and now a well-known college coach couldn't recruit and win here. You may feel slapped in the face by my post, which is not my intent at all. Its really a slap in the face to the leadership here that continues to let us flounder as a quasi-FBS member with a FCS mentality. Apogee and the Spper Pit are awesome facilities, but they alone dont show me that the university is putting a priority on athletics--they tell mw that they can use those venues for all sorts of things besides just athletics. Personnel and payroll determine that, at least to me. We don't ever fire anyone until its affordable. We hire people mostly on the cheap, even if McCarney and Benford are the highest paid coaches in our history. Look around you and see how their salaries compare to other Texas schools. Western Kentucky gets it, as TTG pointed out so eloquently. They learned a long time ago how much athletics helped the entire university when they win at sports people care about. We care alot about music, arts, and education. All are great areas of society that are needed, but they don't create much of a difference in research, endowment, or connection back to the university. That's why so many here are upset at what has occurred recently. Its still small-time Denton thinking of athletics that a university of our size and location shouldn't still deal with. And the problem gets exacerbated when our friends at other schools in this state and the surrounding region always have a sport to brag about while we rarely do. Our mens hoops team was finally something to really celebrate--and poof, it was gone. Nuked by the reality of a school that just does things on the cheap when it comes to athletics and its personnel.

I'm quite familiar with who Texas has scheduled over the years. I was just using them as an example. I could have added A&M or Tech to the end of that sentence and it would have meant the exact same thing as it did with me using just Texas. It still doesn't change my mind on who any of those big AQ schools should play in their OOC schedule. By the way, one piece of advice. Please stop posting here, checkfacts. You just aren't very good at this stuff.

The Aggies care about football alot because it connects their university family. They know that the university's main goal is to educate (very well I might add) their students to be ready to go out and make money. By creating such a crazy bond between the school and its "family", you get the "family reunions" at Kyle Field. Yes, the Aggies are different people--they care about dead dogs, bonfires, and pretend military. They are a different breed. But their university produces some very talented engineers, scientists, researchers, and now business majors. That's a lot of money from their core (not Corps) graduates to give back and now tha Kyle Field is being expanded, the money from those current students and former students will pay off this expansion fairly quickly, if just through future donations to the entire university. Their university invested in ways to connect their students, alums, faculty, local citizens, and their families. They are now reaping the rewards of that continued investment, as well as the forward thinking of their university's leaders to make a change in athletic conference affiliation that has created a new identity that will not drop off for a long time. The SEC thing may have made A&M turn their back on Texas, Tech, and Baylor, but they aren't looking back at their old brethren. And, now, even if they fall backwards again, the $$$ and prestige from being in the SEC and out from under Texas' shadow has raised A&Ms profile for decades to come. In my opinion, Texas is in big trouble here. When the SEC Network gets going, the payout to A&M is going to be more than Texas gets from the Big XII and LHN. The Aggies get games against the SEC powerhouses in College Station. Texas' biggest opponent is played in Dallas every year. They play home games against teams that aren't nearly as attractive as who the Aggies play now. And once Baylor issues their first bonds for their new stadium, they are going to be welded to Texas. And as we have seen, Baylor produces some very good lawyers who are glad to sue the world to protect their school's interest of being a tick on the hound. To some degree, TCU and Tech fall in those categories, too. To me, the only out Texas has is to go independent for about 2-3years. Basically, they are going to have to take a step back to move forward. They'll still get sued, but they can say that they are leaving Baylor, TCU, and Tech in an AQ league and will still play them, so they can be allowed to move on. Then, they have to figure out how to rework or ditch the LHN, just so they can fit in with another conference. The SEC won't ever take them, since A&M, Arkansas, and Mizzou will never vote for them, nor will LSU, Florida, Kentucky, or South Carolina, who all want to protect their states from getting a second SEC school. The PAC could be a good option, but you're basically giving A&M the advantage of location and time zone for recruiting purposes. Kids in Texas want their families to see them play, even if its on TV. An A&M game at South Carolina will start at 6pm CST, at the latest. A game in the Pac for anyone in this time zone may not start until 9:30. So, to me, the only play Texas can make that would compete well with the Aggies move to the SEC is to look out for themselves by going independent for a short time, which would get rid of Baylor, TCU, and Tech, rework or ditch the LHN, and then join the other major prestigious league that involves the CST--the B1G. Make no mistake about it, the B1G would take Texas in a heartbeat with its AAU status, research capabilities, and huge TV market. Plus, the B1G will only take AAU schools and it won't take schools with poor academic standards in their eyes (i.e., the emails to Texas a few years ago from the Big Ten offices referring to the "Tech problem"). Texas would get games against marquee opponents and they can get into the CIC money that the B1G schools use to fund their research projects. To me, that's the only route I see to allow Texas to get back ahead of where A&M is headed, from all fronts--revenue, conference prestige, and premier scheduling to sell your fans on.

You know, the deal with McDonald at WKU was that he obviously was living off of Horn's recruiting and success, but having Ray Harper there was why WKU could afford to make the change they made. They had a coach-in-waiting already on staff. We replaced Johnny Jones with a longtime assistant coach who had no connection to the unviersity or its players currently on the team, just like y'all did with McDonald. It rarely works. Ray Harper had been a very successful coach before he went to WKU. Now, he has managed to pull a rabbit out of the hat in the last two seasons just to get into the tournament, but he has proven his worth. WKU will be good to great again very soon. We blew our chance at this. If we could have gotten a name coach here who had skins on the wall, even at a lower level, I'm convinced we would have still been able to compete for the SBC title last year. Now,we are just cooked. We have a guy in Benford that is so obviously in over his head that his on-the-job training count possibly pay off until he has at least 3 years under his belt, which is the most optimistic I can be. I even doubt that will occur, but that will be his lifeline for why the university brings him back for that 4th year of his contract (ala Trilli and Dodge). I look forward to seeing how WKU does over the next few years under Harper's leadership. Y'all have a very bright future with him at the helm. I think you will continue to be a contender for NCAA bids and NIT bids for many years to come. I'm envious of you, big time, but your school cares very much about the connection to athletic success and the way it supports the entire university. We don't--probably because we have never really seen how those two can work together. As a matter of fact, we have done everything possible to keep those two from really ever intertwining. We prefer fundraising connections form our music and arts departments, which are top notch, apparently. To each their own, I suppose, but I sure wish my alma mater cared about sports like WKU does, much less how every other school in Texas does.

Why wouldn't he just go back to Kansas if he left for health reasons? Also, we would be so lucky if he CAN play and we got him. Seriously, he was a great player in high school.

I really don't want this thread to go away...so I am bumping it up, if for nothing else than to give others the chance to read TTG's epic post.

I'll be shocked if La Tech is anywhere close to what they were a year ago. They lost so many players and their very successful head coach. No matter how good the replacement seems (Skip Holtz isn't bad, either), the new chemistry will take some time to develop, just from a standpoint of personnel on hand that is different from what I suspect Holtz's offense will look like. The other teams, especially Ohio and Tulsa, they could get really ugly if we cannot stop their running games. I suspect that those two games in particular will be ass-kickings, actually. I'm hopeful that Ball State is a team we can compete with, since its at home and its early in the season, when the Texas heat will stay be a player. Rice could be ugly, too, but I'm hopeful again because we are playing them here. If that game was at Rice, I would predict a beatdown like I think Tulsa will lay down on us--again...