untjim1995

Said no one ever...

Until we win on the road, I cant predict us to win... La Tech wins a close one--23-20

I love college basketball even more than college football, but the reality is that absolutely no one in this state cares about college basketball unless they are going to be in the tournament from the Big XII. UNTs debacle last season in basketball was awful, for sure, but no one in the media reports on college basketball that much because very few care about the sport the way I do and a few others on this site do.

This was a great topic I just stumbled upon. I think the i-aa fiasco will eventually wear off around here--as the gradautes of UNT from the 2000s and beyond will have only known UNT as a FBS program, albeit a non-AQ. But there are more people connected to UNT Football from the SBC Championship years in 2001-2004 than probably all of the almus from 1985-1995 put together. Reading Gosselin's article from his trip to Apogee reminded me of just how low this place was for athletics when RV took over. To have to see an AD face a reallity of less than 200 people at a 1-A game before he took over while also looking at the total of $1.5 million dollars spent on athletics since 1979 is just ludicrous. All of this going on at a school in freaking Texas, of all places, where football is king. As with many things, its always good to remember your past mistakes, so that you can try to avoid committing them again. I just fear that one day the AQs are going to split away from the rest of us and we are going to be left high and dry again, but this time it will be due to the greed of the AQs, not to our own incompetence. In the end, you control what you can control, though. If we are going to be a FBS program, we have to fund it, we have to promote it, we have to help it through attendance and leadership, as well as donations. North Texas has never been given anything--we have had to fight and hope for a scrap here or there. What this school could have looked like if we ever got admitted to the SWC in the 70s is almost haunting. Heck, even getting into CUSA back when there were openings, only to see us get blackballed again, makes me wonder where we would be today as a program, whether we were still in CUSA or in another conference. But it goes back to controlling what we can control--and with the recent funding of facilities, salaries, and budgets, UNT looks like we may have finally gotten what athletics--primarily football--can do for your university. We still have lots of work to do, but I'm hopeful to see this train keep on moving on down the tracks and not get derailed ever again by those folks in Denton who hate UNT athletics and the costs associated with it.

I think he was implying that it was a better day when the marching bands each got TV time at halftime, but the legal issues of the day have cost us that coverage. I don't believe he was blaming band direcotrs or composers, but if he is, who cares... I watch a game on Saturday, whether its in person or on TV, for the football. Yes, its cool to hear the fight songs and the pomp and circumstance in the background, but the music will never ever be a reason for me to attend a game. If they cut out the marching during halftime and just let the bands perform songs from their seats, that's be just fine with me. Again, the band is secondary to the game, just as the cheerleaders and the PA are secondary. If we don't get to watch halftime marching shows anymore on TV, then that's fine with most fans, because we want to see highlights and scores from other games anyway. Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings, but the public consumes football with a great fervor, not marching band competitions. That cannot be argued...as a matter of fact, bands owe an immense amount of gratitude towards the sport of football. Football gives them an event to perfrom at, while often producing the revenues for high schools and colleges to even have a band.

This is McCarney's MO--hire the right defensive coach to coach up the low rated kids that can be developed into a stronger unit on the line. Same goes for the Oline, also. I think McCarney winning this last game to get to 3 wins assures him next season, even we lost the rest of our games, which won't happen. The next steps for development of this program is to learn to win on the road. The next two places are certainly winnable games, for sure, even if they sound like tough games at La Tech and at USM because of their reputations. We need to win of these for sure. If we are 4-4 after these next two games, we get the Texas triplets fo ther next 3 at home. Win 2 of those 3 and you are 6-5 heading into Tulsa, which looks more winnable than any of those thought possible at the beginning of the year. 6 wins or better will get McCarney an extension, for sure. Right now, this team plays so Jekyll at home and Hyde on the road, though, its just hard to predict anything better than 3-3 the rest of the way.

We were where they are back in 2007...I would hope we never go back to losing at Rice 77-20 or at home to Tulsa 54-2.

Two years ago, that team won 2 games and we beat them by 59-7 in Denton. I'm sorry, but we have been like that for too many years between 2005-2010. I'd just as soon aim a bit higher than establishing ourselves as the next MUTS...maybe this is this best we can hope for, but I'd like to think we could find a few other programs to emulate that have a ton more respect than MUTS.

It is actually possible that this line of thinking in the AD and with the BOR is exactly what they are all acting on. Its not great, but its not terrible, either. It just depends on how badly you need the cash by playing road games. In the past, its been pretty obvious that these road games have served as the major arm of cash flow to cover UNT Athletics. A lot of us thought that Apogee would change this, but it is very possible that it hasn't changed a bit. In no way am I advocating this stance to be acceptable or correct, I just think its very possible that it is the way we will continue to view football scheduling for years to come. History certainly backs this sentiment up.

If you think this is decent smack talk, I think I know why you decided to get a degree from the sparest of directionally-named schools in the country. Seriously, your school's name is a complete joke. Being Central Tennessee State would be bad enough, but instead, your school went with the term "Middle". That's a great way to really be taken seriously outside of Nashville. If you think that me complaining that my school has been losing for the last 8 years to mostly the dregs of FBS football, including you guys and the other SBCUSA spares, should cease because we have had trouble beating teams like you, then I am not sure what to say. Fans in Texas like to talk about the Big XII and SEC, or at least when Texas teams play each other. When TCU and SMU play each other, it resonates here in DFW. When UH and Rice play, it resonates in Houston. When Baylor and Tech play, it resonates throughout the state. When I shoehorn in that my alma mater, UNT, is playing Middle Tennessee, at best I get indifference, while usually getting laughs at how spare of a game it must be to watch North Texas play Middle Tennessee, especially while Texas is playing OU down the road, or A&M is playing Arkansas. Maybe in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, maybe going to watch a Middle Tennessee State game against North Texas resonates with the "locals". If so, good for you all. My point is simply, that in Denton, Texas, basically the top part of the DFW Metroplex, a North Texas game against Middle Tennessee doesn't move the needle because we have a lot of other sporting options to consider. Its my opinion, that even if we were winning big instead of always losing, a game against Middle Tennessee in Denton will never see a big crowd--because you don't bring anyone here and no one in this area cares about watching y'all play against us. I could care less if the exact situation is the same when we go to your town for a game. I'm not in the least concerned about your program's well-being. Even if you guys are way better than Memphis in football right now, us playing Memphis in Denton would at least get more people to consider coming to a game in Denton than when you all visit us. Again, that's what I'm trying to convey here, that the opponent is what drives attendance at most non-AQs. In the end, that's why having you guys and Western Kentucky in CUSA is better than taking on more FCS move-ups, but it still doesn't help with our biggest issue--having stronger attendance to help increase revenues, the fanbase, and media coverage. Never has a home game against Middle Tennessee even registered a blip on the radar to the citizens or the media members in the DFW Metroplex. Sorry if that offends you, but that's our issue, not necessarily yours.

The entire home schedules under Coach Mac have been Houston, Indiana, ULM, FAU, WKU, and MUTS in 2011. Texas Southern, Troy, ULL, Ark State, and South Alabama, in 2012. In 2013, so far, its been Idaho and Ball State, with MUTS, Rice, UTEP, and UTSA to follow.

So what kind of attendance are we expecting for this game? With the myriad of easy excuses at hand, I predict 13k as the announced crowd.

Playmaker was a poster that got made fun of very often...I remember Quoner usually owned him after one of his innane postings.

I'm sorry, and I know it offends some on this board who proudly wear their Mean Green glasses, but I have never had any luck whatsoever in getting anyone that is not a UNT alum (family or friend) to attend a UNT-Middle Tennessee State game in Denton. Yes, MUTS was a bigger game in the SBC than most of the others, but there is a reason that the actual attendance for this opponent has never been close to 20k. Maybe it would be different if we were winning--it seems that every time MUTS comes to town, we are always holding a losing record, all the way back to 2001. But, the point is that outside of the normal 10k-15k that show up to watch UNT play, its damn near impossible to get anyone excited about this opponent. I asked a friend that is an Iowa grad if he wanted to come to the game this weekend--since he cannot watch his team play in person and McCarney is an Iowa grad--his exact words were, "What time is the game and who are they playing?" When I gave him my answer, he simply said, "Nah, I'll pass." Basically, its the same thing I have dealt with over the last 12 years of trying to get folks to go to watch us play. What's harder is when a UNT alum won't go because he only wants to watch the AQ games on tv. Most people don't know who Middle Tennessee State is, think their name is ridiculous, and don't want to give up 4+ hours of their day for a game involving them. Sure, if we win, maybe that changes...but it certainly didn't change in the early 00's when we were dominating the SBC teams like MUTS. For that matter, we didn't give Hayden Fry's great teams of the 70s any decent attendance, either, when we had our best teams ever. Again, maybe winning today at Apogee will change things. BUt the opponent still drives the attendance at most non-AQ venues and we are not any different than the other non-Big XII SWC leftovers or other non-AQ regional teams in the AAC, CUSA, or SBC.

I tend to agree, as well. But Dickey never even apporached Mac in terms of engaging the fanbase, which makes this a bit surprising. But desperation causes lots of unforeseen moves to take place.

But they were affordable!! The UNT motto when it comes to athletics...

A few things from this thread that I would like to answer. 1.) Why did those 4000 students at the UNT Pep Rally in 100 degree heat in August at Apogee not show up for our UNT game versus Ball State in another scorcher of a day? Well, we were straight up against the biggest college football game of the year that involved a Texas behemoth--Alabama @ A&M with Johnny Football. Everyone here can bitch about this, but much like Texas-OU this weekend, even with an early start, these behemoth games involving Texas or A&M take away a lot of interest from a UNT game when we are playing a team that no one in this area cares about. Ball State is a good non-AQ team--and not a sole in DFW who doesn't have Indiana ties cares one iota about Ball State, which leads to #2... 2.) Back in 2003, the Denton Chamber of Commerce started a 3-month campaign to get a huge turnout for the UNT season opener, which saw abig crowd at Fouts. Why did that work so well and why haven't we tried it again? Its solely because we were hosting SWC royalty at Fouts in the Baylor Bears. Even if they completely suck, people in Denton know who Baylor is because they wwatched them for years in the SWC and Big XII. Fans that are not amongst the 10k diehard UNT fans want to watch UNT play Baylor or Rice or SMU or TCU or UH or Tulsa in home openers, even in a dump like Fouts. They don't want to watch UNT play Idaho, Texas Southern, Ohio, Florida Atlantic, Nicholls State, Indiana State, or Illinois State as home openers. Most Chamber of Commerce people are businessmen, so they can sell something pretty easily, if they want to. They know that Joe Q Public doesn't care that UNT is playing--they care WHO we are playing. Its why UNT90 and I have griped about OOC scheduling for a long time, especially with a new stadium. We still schedule the same as we did in OOC as we did at Fouts, which was worse than playing at 2A HS. 3.) Coach McCarney shouldn't complain about attendance when his team is not winning still. He's doing a classic Dickey trick--make the team believe they are against the wall with very little help from anyone outside of the locker room. Even with a crowd of 15k+, its an easy argument for Dickey and McCarney to say to their team, "See, out of 200k alumni, 36k students, and 800k in the county, we can't even get half the stadium full. We are just gonna have to take care of ourselves and tell everyone else to eff off." Very telling to see McCarney going down this road--he's trying to keep the team on his side, since they know that he has to win by next season or he's gone, and he's gonna need them to put forth every effort for him to keep his job by the end of 2014. This is UNT--we will win this weekend over MUTS in front of an "announced crowd of 14k", which means about 10k. We win at Apogee against teams like MUTS--we just lose on the road to teams on our schedule like La Tech, Southern Miss, and Tulsa. I still see a 5-7 season, just as I did before we played a down. When you cannot win on the road, its not rocket science to see where this thing will finish in 2013.

Hutch Black Hersey Night at Fouts Field!!

I promise you that there are two non-AQs that will be included in any move upward to a New Division 4--BYU and Boise State. I don't see any others getting included, except for the bigger named AAC teams that will get assumed by the eastern AQ conferences (UConn, Cincy, and USF). I could see the Pac-12 eventually having to take the two western powers, even if they don't want to, just to keep the Division 4 model going the way they want it to. The ACC, B1G, SEC, and Big XII are really just moving parts here. I still see the Big XII dying soon, but we will see how it goes. I'll give Baylor credit for one thing--winning big in football and in basketball couldn't have come at a more perfect time for the Baptists. I used to think they would easily get left behind, but they might just be able to stay afloat at the top level with their winning ways. If I think BYU is going to get included in any Division 4 setup, then I have to believe Baylor will, too. I don't know about TCU, but I am coming around to the idea that Baylor might just make it after all, if they keep winning big.

Why would the non-AQs think this is a good setup? Its worse than what they have now. Again, if the AQs want to separate and create their own coaclition, let them go. Right now, with a huge stacked deck in the AQs favor, we have seen Boise State, Utah, TCU, Hawaii, and Northern Illinois bust up their monopoly over the last few years by getting spots in their precious BCS bowl games. And each time they have done it, especially last year with NIU making the Orange Bowl, their AQ media come all out to scream about how awful it is that a team from a non-power league could make one of these prestigious bowl games. And to include the AAC over the MWC is just pure insanity--the MWC has had four of its champions make it to a BCS game (TCU and Utah twice) and the two others did it in the WAC, which is now the MWC (Boise State and Hawaii). Meanwhile, the AAC will get one only because of the old Big East's last AQ spot, which means Louisville will go again before leaving to the ACC. I'm sorry but UConn and Cincy making to BCS bowl games because their old league was at the big boys table at the time isn't more impressive than what the MWC did during the same timeframe. If anyone should get included with CUSA, SBC, and MAC in being left out, its the AAC. If I were a non-AQ commissioner and got invited to stay as FBS, only at the reality of just being like Puerto Rico is the rest of the states in determining the President of the US on election night, than I am saying, fine, but there are no more one-and-dones anymore. You must agree to a 2-1 series, at the very least, if you are scheduling one of our teams. Also, at the end of the season, since we cannot get any of your precious bowl slots to make money for our conferences like you all get to, we are going to create our own playoff amongst our teams. So enjoy your bowl layoff--we will be playing in a true tournament to crown a champion in the way that most Americans like and want--a fair system that rewards winners of these conferences and those who qualify as particpants in that playoff because of their on-field success, not because they always sell a lot of t-shirts and have ESPN pimping them 24 hours a day. What a novel concept--a fair tournament in a playoff format? Ever sport, except AQ football, does this. Even when theirs starts next year, it will be anything but fair.

Football players bring revenue to the academies and to the areas that host their games. The other sports don't. I have no problem with them only letting football players play during this mess. Hell, we all need the dollars (and taxes) that come from hosting these games.

I think Coach Mac, even in his early 60s, would be agreat hire at an AQ school. He has enough energy to easily coach well into his 70s. His specialty in turning around dormant programs. I'm serious on this one--if/when Charlie Weis fails at Kansas, and assuming we see a turnaround of major significance here in Denton, KU would be very wise to go after Coach Mac. They have resources, a conference he knows very well, and would instantly jumpstart that fanbase again. If Hayden Fry could turnaround moribund Iowa into a Big Ten champion, Coach Mac could probably do the same at a place like Kansas. Hell, it wasn't that long ago that KU was winning the Orange Bowl under Mangino. I want Coach Mac to be here for a long time--because of success, I might add, not because he's affordable--but his youthful personality and attitude are definitely not old in any way, shape, or form. Again, this is making the rather large assumption that he actually does turn it around here, there will be down-and-out AQ teams that will go after him because of his MO as a turnaround specialist. Its not hard to see a Kansas or Missouri at least interview McCarney about any vacancies in the near future.

I had this down as a win at the beginning of the year and I still do. Tulane gets to find out what so many others have found out when they play conference games in their last season as a member of said conference--the officiating won't give nearly as much home cookin' as they did before. You don't get any breaks or many calls to go your way when you are about to leave for greener pastures (see UNT in the SBC, circa 2012). UNT wins this one 27-23.

I feel like this is a very accetable form of negotiation--its a deep canyon between our budget and UTs, but our budget dwarfs SFAs or Lamar's, both of who get to vote on par with North Texas and Texas Tech and Texas A&M. They have a completely different setup for their AD than we do. The biggest change I hope a Division 4 would make is that there will no longer be anymore Division 4 games versus FCS games anymore. I know that we get a handful of FCS wins every year against FBS schools, but that doesn't make it any better to see #1 Alabama play a game this weekend against Alabama State. Just as when we played Texas Southern last year, I hate seeing these matchups. The otehr change I want to see is a combo of capacity/athletic budget to play at the Division 4 level, say a stadium with 20k in capacity and a budget of $20 million annually.

Put me in the camp that thinks this win for Texas State is great for them, but really bad for the rest of non-AQ teams, especially those of in CUSA in Texas. I want Texas State, UTSA, UTEP, and Rice to lose as many games as possible, just like I hope that for SMU and UH. Them losing only helps us--just as our losing has easily helped the rest of them over all these years. Even winning in the SBC never gave us too much help on the recruiting front because of those opponents perceived weakness and our albatross known as Fouts. Now, if we have a bowl season and finish ahead of most or all of those other non-AQ Texas teams, that SHOULD be huge for our recruiting and for attendance/support. Watching Texas State beat Wyoming on the road, doesn't help with that. Texas State is kind of unique in a sense that it is like UNT--a college town that is not far from a huge city in Austin, where the big draw is another team (here its multiuple pro teams), but they have a beautiful area to recruit to and a lot of potential to recruit on for their future. But, just as it was for UNT for all those years as teh lone Texas SBC team, recruiting kids to play for you that don't get to play other Texas schools in a league that is thought of as a glorified FCS league (even if its not true) is gonna be tough. Coach Fran helps with that, which was a nice hire fire by Texas State--they avoided the problem we continually made by hiring guys who had never proven themselves as collegiate head coaches before landing the UNT head coaching job.