untjim1995

I'm sorry, and I know it offends some on this board who proudly wear their Mean Green glasses, but I have never had any luck whatsoever in getting anyone that is not a UNT alum (family or friend) to attend a UNT-Middle Tennessee State game in Denton. Yes, MUTS was a bigger game in the SBC than most of the others, but there is a reason that the actual attendance for this opponent has never been close to 20k. Maybe it would be different if we were winning--it seems that every time MUTS comes to town, we are always holding a losing record, all the way back to 2001. But, the point is that outside of the normal 10k-15k that show up to watch UNT play, its damn near impossible to get anyone excited about this opponent. I asked a friend that is an Iowa grad if he wanted to come to the game this weekend--since he cannot watch his team play in person and McCarney is an Iowa grad--his exact words were, "What time is the game and who are they playing?" When I gave him my answer, he simply said, "Nah, I'll pass." Basically, its the same thing I have dealt with over the last 12 years of trying to get folks to go to watch us play. What's harder is when a UNT alum won't go because he only wants to watch the AQ games on tv. Most people don't know who Middle Tennessee State is, think their name is ridiculous, and don't want to give up 4+ hours of their day for a game involving them. Sure, if we win, maybe that changes...but it certainly didn't change in the early 00's when we were dominating the SBC teams like MUTS. For that matter, we didn't give Hayden Fry's great teams of the 70s any decent attendance, either, when we had our best teams ever. Again, maybe winning today at Apogee will change things. BUt the opponent still drives the attendance at most non-AQ venues and we are not any different than the other non-Big XII SWC leftovers or other non-AQ regional teams in the AAC, CUSA, or SBC.

I tend to agree, as well. But Dickey never even apporached Mac in terms of engaging the fanbase, which makes this a bit surprising. But desperation causes lots of unforeseen moves to take place.

But they were affordable!! The UNT motto when it comes to athletics...

A few things from this thread that I would like to answer. 1.) Why did those 4000 students at the UNT Pep Rally in 100 degree heat in August at Apogee not show up for our UNT game versus Ball State in another scorcher of a day? Well, we were straight up against the biggest college football game of the year that involved a Texas behemoth--Alabama @ A&M with Johnny Football. Everyone here can bitch about this, but much like Texas-OU this weekend, even with an early start, these behemoth games involving Texas or A&M take away a lot of interest from a UNT game when we are playing a team that no one in this area cares about. Ball State is a good non-AQ team--and not a sole in DFW who doesn't have Indiana ties cares one iota about Ball State, which leads to #2... 2.) Back in 2003, the Denton Chamber of Commerce started a 3-month campaign to get a huge turnout for the UNT season opener, which saw abig crowd at Fouts. Why did that work so well and why haven't we tried it again? Its solely because we were hosting SWC royalty at Fouts in the Baylor Bears. Even if they completely suck, people in Denton know who Baylor is because they wwatched them for years in the SWC and Big XII. Fans that are not amongst the 10k diehard UNT fans want to watch UNT play Baylor or Rice or SMU or TCU or UH or Tulsa in home openers, even in a dump like Fouts. They don't want to watch UNT play Idaho, Texas Southern, Ohio, Florida Atlantic, Nicholls State, Indiana State, or Illinois State as home openers. Most Chamber of Commerce people are businessmen, so they can sell something pretty easily, if they want to. They know that Joe Q Public doesn't care that UNT is playing--they care WHO we are playing. Its why UNT90 and I have griped about OOC scheduling for a long time, especially with a new stadium. We still schedule the same as we did in OOC as we did at Fouts, which was worse than playing at 2A HS. 3.) Coach McCarney shouldn't complain about attendance when his team is not winning still. He's doing a classic Dickey trick--make the team believe they are against the wall with very little help from anyone outside of the locker room. Even with a crowd of 15k+, its an easy argument for Dickey and McCarney to say to their team, "See, out of 200k alumni, 36k students, and 800k in the county, we can't even get half the stadium full. We are just gonna have to take care of ourselves and tell everyone else to eff off." Very telling to see McCarney going down this road--he's trying to keep the team on his side, since they know that he has to win by next season or he's gone, and he's gonna need them to put forth every effort for him to keep his job by the end of 2014. This is UNT--we will win this weekend over MUTS in front of an "announced crowd of 14k", which means about 10k. We win at Apogee against teams like MUTS--we just lose on the road to teams on our schedule like La Tech, Southern Miss, and Tulsa. I still see a 5-7 season, just as I did before we played a down. When you cannot win on the road, its not rocket science to see where this thing will finish in 2013.

Hutch Black Hersey Night at Fouts Field!!

I promise you that there are two non-AQs that will be included in any move upward to a New Division 4--BYU and Boise State. I don't see any others getting included, except for the bigger named AAC teams that will get assumed by the eastern AQ conferences (UConn, Cincy, and USF). I could see the Pac-12 eventually having to take the two western powers, even if they don't want to, just to keep the Division 4 model going the way they want it to. The ACC, B1G, SEC, and Big XII are really just moving parts here. I still see the Big XII dying soon, but we will see how it goes. I'll give Baylor credit for one thing--winning big in football and in basketball couldn't have come at a more perfect time for the Baptists. I used to think they would easily get left behind, but they might just be able to stay afloat at the top level with their winning ways. If I think BYU is going to get included in any Division 4 setup, then I have to believe Baylor will, too. I don't know about TCU, but I am coming around to the idea that Baylor might just make it after all, if they keep winning big.

Why would the non-AQs think this is a good setup? Its worse than what they have now. Again, if the AQs want to separate and create their own coaclition, let them go. Right now, with a huge stacked deck in the AQs favor, we have seen Boise State, Utah, TCU, Hawaii, and Northern Illinois bust up their monopoly over the last few years by getting spots in their precious BCS bowl games. And each time they have done it, especially last year with NIU making the Orange Bowl, their AQ media come all out to scream about how awful it is that a team from a non-power league could make one of these prestigious bowl games. And to include the AAC over the MWC is just pure insanity--the MWC has had four of its champions make it to a BCS game (TCU and Utah twice) and the two others did it in the WAC, which is now the MWC (Boise State and Hawaii). Meanwhile, the AAC will get one only because of the old Big East's last AQ spot, which means Louisville will go again before leaving to the ACC. I'm sorry but UConn and Cincy making to BCS bowl games because their old league was at the big boys table at the time isn't more impressive than what the MWC did during the same timeframe. If anyone should get included with CUSA, SBC, and MAC in being left out, its the AAC. If I were a non-AQ commissioner and got invited to stay as FBS, only at the reality of just being like Puerto Rico is the rest of the states in determining the President of the US on election night, than I am saying, fine, but there are no more one-and-dones anymore. You must agree to a 2-1 series, at the very least, if you are scheduling one of our teams. Also, at the end of the season, since we cannot get any of your precious bowl slots to make money for our conferences like you all get to, we are going to create our own playoff amongst our teams. So enjoy your bowl layoff--we will be playing in a true tournament to crown a champion in the way that most Americans like and want--a fair system that rewards winners of these conferences and those who qualify as particpants in that playoff because of their on-field success, not because they always sell a lot of t-shirts and have ESPN pimping them 24 hours a day. What a novel concept--a fair tournament in a playoff format? Ever sport, except AQ football, does this. Even when theirs starts next year, it will be anything but fair.

Football players bring revenue to the academies and to the areas that host their games. The other sports don't. I have no problem with them only letting football players play during this mess. Hell, we all need the dollars (and taxes) that come from hosting these games.

I think Coach Mac, even in his early 60s, would be agreat hire at an AQ school. He has enough energy to easily coach well into his 70s. His specialty in turning around dormant programs. I'm serious on this one--if/when Charlie Weis fails at Kansas, and assuming we see a turnaround of major significance here in Denton, KU would be very wise to go after Coach Mac. They have resources, a conference he knows very well, and would instantly jumpstart that fanbase again. If Hayden Fry could turnaround moribund Iowa into a Big Ten champion, Coach Mac could probably do the same at a place like Kansas. Hell, it wasn't that long ago that KU was winning the Orange Bowl under Mangino. I want Coach Mac to be here for a long time--because of success, I might add, not because he's affordable--but his youthful personality and attitude are definitely not old in any way, shape, or form. Again, this is making the rather large assumption that he actually does turn it around here, there will be down-and-out AQ teams that will go after him because of his MO as a turnaround specialist. Its not hard to see a Kansas or Missouri at least interview McCarney about any vacancies in the near future.

I had this down as a win at the beginning of the year and I still do. Tulane gets to find out what so many others have found out when they play conference games in their last season as a member of said conference--the officiating won't give nearly as much home cookin' as they did before. You don't get any breaks or many calls to go your way when you are about to leave for greener pastures (see UNT in the SBC, circa 2012). UNT wins this one 27-23.

I feel like this is a very accetable form of negotiation--its a deep canyon between our budget and UTs, but our budget dwarfs SFAs or Lamar's, both of who get to vote on par with North Texas and Texas Tech and Texas A&M. They have a completely different setup for their AD than we do. The biggest change I hope a Division 4 would make is that there will no longer be anymore Division 4 games versus FCS games anymore. I know that we get a handful of FCS wins every year against FBS schools, but that doesn't make it any better to see #1 Alabama play a game this weekend against Alabama State. Just as when we played Texas Southern last year, I hate seeing these matchups. The otehr change I want to see is a combo of capacity/athletic budget to play at the Division 4 level, say a stadium with 20k in capacity and a budget of $20 million annually.

Put me in the camp that thinks this win for Texas State is great for them, but really bad for the rest of non-AQ teams, especially those of in CUSA in Texas. I want Texas State, UTSA, UTEP, and Rice to lose as many games as possible, just like I hope that for SMU and UH. Them losing only helps us--just as our losing has easily helped the rest of them over all these years. Even winning in the SBC never gave us too much help on the recruiting front because of those opponents perceived weakness and our albatross known as Fouts. Now, if we have a bowl season and finish ahead of most or all of those other non-AQ Texas teams, that SHOULD be huge for our recruiting and for attendance/support. Watching Texas State beat Wyoming on the road, doesn't help with that. Texas State is kind of unique in a sense that it is like UNT--a college town that is not far from a huge city in Austin, where the big draw is another team (here its multiuple pro teams), but they have a beautiful area to recruit to and a lot of potential to recruit on for their future. But, just as it was for UNT for all those years as teh lone Texas SBC team, recruiting kids to play for you that don't get to play other Texas schools in a league that is thought of as a glorified FCS league (even if its not true) is gonna be tough. Coach Fran helps with that, which was a nice hire fire by Texas State--they avoided the problem we continually made by hiring guys who had never proven themselves as collegiate head coaches before landing the UNT head coaching job.

The Pac-12 and the ACC both told Texas that their LHN wouldn't be acceptable at all for consideration of membership in their leagues. Obviously, the Big Ten and the SEC feel exactly the same about the LHN. The GOR for the Big XII schools and the ACC schools will really be the litmus test for more AQ realignment. If the GORs cannot get busted, then realignment will pretty much stay as it is. But if it gets busted with small exit fees or buyouts, the Big XII and the ACC are going to git pillaged by the Big Three AQs. There is a pretty good rumor out there that OU and KU to the Big Ten is very possible, along with Mizzou, UNC, Duke, and UVa. That would give the Big Ten 18 teams, spread from the entire East Coast through the midwest. That would leave the SEC to replace Mizzou, which is a horrible fit in that league anyway, and they can get the footholds in states they covet to get into by adding Va Tech and NC State. The ACC would then replace their losses with West Virginia, Cincy, UConn, East Carolina, and South Florida.. If the Big XII loses either Texas or Oklahoma, they are done. Oklahoma and Kansas both have other schools to keep in mind, so they could get stuck with them, but I doubt it. Same with Texas, as it concerns Tech, Baylor, and TCU, but I suspect Texas can get away if they take care of Tech or if they decide to go independent because no one wants Tech in the other major AQ conferences--the Big Ten called Texas' main issue from being invited to their league as "The Tech Problem". The Pac brethren feel exactly the same way about Tech and Okie State, but they will take them if it gets them Texas (sans the LHN) and Oklahoma. Probably the same for KU, too, in that K-State might be able to go west with all of them if it means the Pac can get the Big Three from the Big 12, UT, OU, and KU, all of which have powers in the $$$ sports and have high academic accolades on their side (UT and KU are in the AAU, which seems to be very highly regarded for an invite to the Big Ten, and OU, while not in the AAU, has the most National Merit Scholars amongst public universities in the country). One thing is for sure, Baylor's gonna sue the hell out of everyone to block all of this and they will get lots of support from their brethren in FW, too, but I just don't see this working out too well for either of those two private schools. I think the Big XII's best days passed as soon as they lost Nebraska, Colorado, A&M, and Mizzou. Each delivered big names for either TV markets or national recognition and all ahve great academic pedigrees from the AAU. Replacing them with TCU and WVU is not even close to being sufficient.

If we had won even 1 more game at the end of that schedule, Chico would've been the head coach here. You can argue the merits of if he deserved it or not then, but it would've happened if we had won one of those games against Troy, ULM, or KSU. I actually am glad that it worked out the wway it did. I was on record as wanting an experience FBS coach that people had heard of to come here. Hiring Chico as the OC was even better because it gave the fans someone to feel connected to, but also told the fanbase that we were willing to try and pay a coach with experience--something we hadn't done since Hayden Fry. In the end, I think it all worked out the way it should have once Dodge was fired.

Stats don't show heart or effort, which were both on display in Athens against a behemoth of a team, in NFL-lite Georgia. We won't play another team that good for a long time, thank God--Texas next year will be so much softer than Georgia or LSU or Alabama or any other SEC power. Iowa in 2015 will be waaayyyy slower than any of those teams, too. Who knows about Tennessee, but they will probably find their way back by the time we play them. BUt the point is that we won't have to face a program with that combo of size, depth, talent, and atmosphere for a while. To see us fight Georgia for 4 quarters at their place, enough to garner much interest from many points was something I haven't seen from a UNT team since we lost at Texas in 2002 or at Oklahoma in 2003. You act like we should have been able to beat Georgia. By reading your posts, I would have thought that this game was 45-0 in the 3rd quarter and we scored three scrub TDs on their walk-ons to make it 45-21 in the 4th quarter. That is the exact opposite of what happened. I totally agree with you about Tulane and all the other CUSA teams we play, but to not look at this Georgia game and see major progress is just trying to nitpick, IMO. I realize the parallels are there from last year after we played K-State well, but that team, even though they were ranked #1 at one point, wasn't as good as this Georgia team. This UGA team would have mauled that KSU team from last year, just from a size and speed standpoint. I'm hoping that DT and the rest of the team will show us how much they have matured by not letting up against the Tulanes and La Techs of the world. So, in that regard, we are in total agreement.

I've said this before, but the 1-AA demotion wasn't the worst part of us falling backwards. It was the fact that we stayed there for 12 years. A I-AA stay of under 5 years would still have been bad, but it would've given the leaders of the university time to refocus on building a legitimate stadium, which would have allowed us to move back up and be ready for 1-A competition. When we finally did move up in 1995, we really gave it about a quarter-assed effort. In that regard, it's only now that we even give FBS competition at the non-AQ level an effort that is necessary to compete with other non-AQ schools that have been around for more than 20 years. We just have to hope that we stay after it at a competitive level. No more 1982 debacles in Denton.

UNT90, I usually agree with your posts, but you really are being negative and argumentative for the sake of being a contrarian. If you don't want to see anything good from competing for almost 4 full quarters with a Top Ten SEC team on road in the 4TH GAME OF THE SEASON (not the first game where you can sneak up on inexperienced teams), so be it. But we gave Georgia fits well into the 4th quarter. Georgia has NFL talent everywhere--as a matter of fact, they are probably a top five team in CFB. If they had won at Clemson, they would probably be #2 right now. Alabama, Oregon, and Clemson are the only teams that are better than Georgia right now. I think they will throttle LSU at home this weekend. Mark Richt wanted to rest his guys after the 1st half and couldn't do it because we stood up and fought with them. The last 10 points they got, especially that last TD, were really needed for them not to lose spots in the polls that have ridiculous voters who only look at scores. I totally agree with the Tulane premise, though. If we $hit the bed against Tulane, all of the local media and fan buzz that we felt will vaporize. We have seen this happen a few other times before--in 1997 after losing to a top ten A&M team in a closer than expected game, we lost to Idaho and Boise State (before they were good) and Nevada. Simon got fired at the end of the year. In 1999, after we beat Texas Tech--again--in Lubbock, we followed it up with a bad loss at baylor, a Baylor team that won less than 3 games, IIRC. And, of course, the KSU game from last year got followed up by a turd of a game at home against Troy. I still think we beat Tulane in NO, though. We are better than them and if we play like we should, we will take care of business. Its the other two October road games where I can see a stumble or two. But I was greatly encouraged by the effort and the talent we displayed on Saturday in Athens. We look like a college football team at the FBS level--even during our SBC championship run, I always felt that we looked small compared to other non-SBC teams. But I think we look the part now, just without the depth on the lines that we need. But I think the thing that is almost stealth to so many around here is the strength and conditioning of this team, especially on the lines. This is just another reason as to why McCarney was a solid hire to build us back up from the Dodge ashheap.

Will they even get 20k in attendance for this game? That game should have been played in the I-Bowl in Shreveport, not the Cotton Bowl in Dallas.

The game that has sellout possibility is the home game against UTEP. Even if they are bad--and they are--they have a lot of alumni here in DFW. And the students, alumni, and Denton residents have heard of UTEP. If we are in first place by then, I expect to see a crowd of no less than 25k, but if we are unbeaten in CUSA play, a sellout is very possible. Let me put it this way, if we win most of or all of our games between now and that home game against UTEP (@Tulane, home vs MUTS, @ La Tech, @ Southern Miss, home vs. Rice on Halloween) and have good weather when the Miners come into town, there will be no excuse available anymore for attendance issues. You would have wins, a Texas team that has been around for decades as a FBS school, beautiful stadium, and a big game toward getting into the CUSA Championship game. If people cannot get excited enough to come out for this game, then there is just not much else to say. I would be willing to bet this will be the highest attended game ever at Apogee IF we keep winning. I just fear those road games and that home game against Rice.

Its all just a matter of time. I suspect that the AQs will tell the NCAA to shove it. They will just say that we are free to start our own intercollegiate athletic association, that we aren't making the NCAA give up as the regulator for all the other Division III, Division II, FCS, and non-AQ schools that would be left behind. The big media networks are going to salivate over this. They will get better names for better games every week, as well as a re-bid for their own NCAA March Madness and College World Series from ESPN, CBS, FOX, and NBC. The thing is that those schools control so much, from the media to the fans to the legislatures, both in state and in DC. One thing we all know is that you cannot beat money unless you have the people (votes). We get less than 20k in attendance, while Texas gets over 100k in attendance. They will always have that power--they graduate journalists, lawyers, and business grads at a high rate, both from volume and prestige. Its just too big of a difference. But the thing is, though, is that UNT isn't any different when compared to Texas as any other non-AQ in this state, even UH. Nobody can compete with the control the Longhorns, Aggies, and Red Raiders have--not even Baylor, TCU, or SMU. They are just too big and too monied. Its just the same in Florida, Louisiana, Tennessee, Arkansas, Oklahoma, etc...

Man, UTEP will lose a lot of their fanbase after this debacle...

I think the good from this game gets carried forward if we win this next game. Much like last year, after the KSU game, we lost all momentum by losing. Tulane is bad, they are a team we should beat anywhere. If we lose to them, the DFW media will just laugh us off again. This will remind the long timers here of the time we hung tough with a top ten Aggie team at Texas Stadium in 1997 and eventually lost, but lots of buzz was created by UNT being ready to make its mark as a I-A program. And we followed that up with a disastrous Big West season that cost Matt Simon his job. We cannot let that happen again if we want to gain a foothold in the DFW media.

The AQ media admits they don't even care about non-AQs, unless its Boise State. The NTSU reference and the negative remarks are just more salt to the wounds up here. Until we win one of these games, this crap will continue, both regionally and nationally.

Nebraska-Miami in the Orange Bowl in 1984 is still the best college game I've ever watched. Texas-USC in the 2005 National Championship game was great, too. Boise State over OU with all the trick plays is up here, too. The Cotton Bowl of 1982 between Texas and Alabama, won in the 4th quarter by UT, 14-12 was also terrific, but a cut below the other three. The TCU-Boise State Poinsettia Bowl was also very good, TCU winning 17-16, between two top ten teams. The Snow Bowl between Mississippi State and Texas A&M in the Independence BOwl was also great, with MSU beating the Aggies in OT. And, finally, to homer it up, UNT over Cincy in the NO Bowl of 2002. This has been the pinnacle of being a UNT Football fan, watching your underdog team beat the favorite in a great town in a bowl game against a team people actually have heard of.

And he should be, with all the wins and attention that he has brought to FW.