untjim1995

Good luck on getting an answer, StanR...I've asked him to tell me what it would take for him to feel like the Benford hire has been a disappointment--the answer has been crickets.

Exactly. Do something different. Get the 60 G5 teams that get left behind, add in the top 12 FCS schools, and then you have 6 12-team conferences. Take those 12 team conferences, divide into divsions of 6, and the you play 2 teams from the other division, for 7 conference games. Then, for the remaining 5 OOC games, you play a team from each other conference that finished the previous year in the same place you finished. IOW, UNT finishes 8th in our conference, we play the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 9th place team (as deemed by the conference itself, so there is no question). Then, you play a 16 team FCS playoff in December--the first three rounds are at the highest ranked teams places, then the championship at a neutral site, like it is now. There is just no way to compete for the long-term as a group since the lines are drawn by those in power to keep us out. They control everything, from legislatures to media to access to the best talent. Right now, a bone gets thrown to Boise State to play Arizona in the FIesta Bowl, which is nice. Plus, they got a bid this time without having to go unbeaten as they had to in the past. But, in th ened, Boise State's players, coaches, and fans know that they cannot use this bowl game to jumpstart them toward a playoff appearance next season because the MWC is excluded. But, let's say in my hypothetical that Boise State was #1 in the G5 poll, followed by Marshall, Memphis, Colorado State, Northern Illinois, Air Force, Cincy, and UCF. That would be the group that reached the quarterfinals with wins over the other playoff teams they played in the first Saturday of December. This weekend, UCF would be at Boise State, Cincy @ Marshall, AFA @ Memphis, and NIU @ CSU. Except for the Army-Navy game, this would be your only college games on Saturday. The next week, its CSU @ BSU and Memphis @ Marshall in the semifinals. Then, find the date on the calendar that doesn't interrupt with the big bowls or the NFL and play a prime-time championship game at a great venue in the middle of the country, like Arrowhead Stadium in KC or a destination city like New Orleans or San Antonio in the middle of the country. I'd watch every bit of it. I wouldn't watch the Potato bowl between 6-6 Illinois and 6-6 Texas Tech or 7-5 Washington and 7-5 Ole Miss play each other in the Emerald Bowl, but I'd be very interested in Boise State playing Marshall right now in a championship game.

What was his score on rivals/scout?

Those that stayed in CUSA had no choice. Rice wasn't going anywhere because of UH. Marshall and Southern Miss have no TV market. And UTEP is out in the middle of nowhere, but they prefer to be in a Texas-based league, something they hadn't had until the SWC disbanded and SMU, TCU, and RIce joined them. They found that they have several alumni in DFW and in Houston that would show up and support the Miners. That's why its SBC 2.0 In the end, it doesn't really matter anyway--we were never going to be a P5 team (even if we wanted) because the deck was too stacked against us. Sure, it sounds like it would be fun to play in the AAC instead of CUSA, but would it really be that much different in football than it is now? Replace our divsion mates in CUSA with Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, and Memphis, In the other division, we would play three teams out of this group: Cincy, Temple, UConn, USF, ECU, and USF. It sounds good to us on gmg.com, but if we had the season we just had, we wouldn't draw 20k fans to see us play any of those teams, either. I just look forward to the day when the P5s split away, forcing the G5s and the FCS startups to figure out a better system for their level.

Here's a crazy thought: Take the 5 P5 champions + the best of the rest and make it a 6 team playoff, with the top two seeds getting byes. The 3 and 4 seed get a home game against the 5 and 6 seed. Then, you go to the bowl games. This year, for example, would've looked like this: 1. Bama 2. Oregon 3. FSU 4. Ohio State 5. Baylor 6. TCU

I agree on all of this. Nebraska was supposed to play NIU in Chicago in like 2015, but they backed out because of the 9 game conference schedule and the fact they want 7 or 8 home games every year. I only brought Nebraska up because they might play TCU or Baylor here as part of a series with them, since they don't play down here anymore. It certainly wouldn't be against us. Now Colorado is doable, though. Their program has fallen on hard times. They could use a game or two in Texas that are winnable and can get them recruits from down here.

Totally agree... I used to think of how cool it would be if we played those MWC schools here, but in reality, it wouldn't move the needle here, in terms of attendance. The teams that get our fanbase's interest are former SWC schools and service academies that are willing to come to Denton, apparently. Your normal SBCUSA team doesn't really make anyone run out to Apogee to watch us play a conference mate.

It certainly wouldn't now--we cannot compete with CUSA schools in football. We would be near or at the bottom of the MWC right now. The other side of the coin is that travel to those places was worth it when you had the budget for it and the talent to beat the MWC teams, like TCU did. But we won't do that on the budget side, we either can't or don't recruit talent here to beat SBCUSA teams regularly, and the fanbase likes to be able to drive to see us play in a conference game. The MWC would be my pick if we made winning THE priority in football and mens hoops, but since we don't I'll gladly settle for CUSA now. It is by far the best conference situation we have been in the last 40 years, maybe ever.

You're absolutely correct on that--I think you only get Nebraska here if they play at Jerry World. That wouldn't matter if it was us, TCU, SMU, or Baylor.

So does TCU, yet they choose not to whine about it... At a school like Baylor, you have to go undefeated--its that simple. They didn't do that. They lost to a very average West Virginia team. They beat two teams that finished ranked. They beat SMU, NW State, and Buffalo in OOC. A loss against va Tech in OOC is worth more to the committee than a win over any of those teams Baylor played. You combine all that with Ohio State's popularity, that's why they are left behind. I really don't care if they complain, if its right to complain, or if Ken Starr should start suing everyone, as their website has posters arguing for, Baylor has handled all of this completely wrong from a PR standpoint. If I were a Baylor alum, I'd complain about the scheduling and the PR disaster that has ensued over being relegated to The Cotton Bowl against Michigan State, where they have a good chance to make up for the ass-kicking UCF gave them last year in the Fiesta Bowl.

Actually, its Kansas, not Mizzou, that comes down here to play TCU, but your point is correct. I still think that Mizzou, Colorado, and Nebraska would like to come back to this area for a game. But the MWC and other AAC schools are fine opponents for OOC here. Playing SBC also-rans and FCS schools as the other OOC game in Denton is give-up, to me.

The Big XII is a dying conference--not because of on-field or on-court performance, but because of eyeballs. They have 10 teams, 2 of which draw huge followings in football, Texas and OU, and 1 that draws huge in mens hoops, KU. Beyond that, Tech, OSU, KSU, ISU, and WVU are all well-known programs, but their academics are lowly rated and they don't have as many eyeballs as the other schools that are in the top tier of the league. Only UT and KU are AAU schools, which appears to have major credibility with other conferences, too. TCU and Baylor are the small schools that have no national following at all. Thsi entire group is tied together until 2025, when their GOR ends. The ACC has a GOR, too, but it is farther out, with a much higher buyout. Maryland had to pay $31 million to leave the ACC. Nobody is going to do that to come to the Big XII, where Texas is in complete charge of the league. Now that they get to play Notre Dame, too, as a pseudo conference mate, they aren't going to give that up for the Big 12. The question to me is where everyone goes. If 16 is your magic number, then the B1G, ACC, and SEC have 6 slots left between them, and the PAC has 4 slots left. The competition for those spots isn't just the Big 12, it inculdes hihg level G5s, too. I still think the Texoma 4 will go out west. What happens after that is anyone's guess. I have always believed that Kansas and Missouri will end up in the B1G, where Mizzou wanted to go originally, and they both have Nebraska's support to help them. That would lead to K-State being a replacement for Mizzou in the SEC. Assuming that no one leaves the ACC to go the SEC or B1G, I can see the SEC also adding WVU and Cincy, since that would be new markets in new states for them, which appears to be their goal now. I can see the ACC adding UConn to get to 16, assuming Notre Dame eventually becomes a full member.

I just think Arkansas State is the easiest to get into the conference right now, since they don't have anyone who wants them blocked. I think ULL would be a great pick, equal to A-State, but they have a school in their state (La Tech) that could block them--and their history suggest they will in a heartbeat. Texas State would be a good pickup for the Texas CUSA schools, but they have no appeal to the schools in the east, UTSA may not want to compete with them like UTP looks at NMSU or SMU looks at us, and they haven't really won anything yet in the SBC to think they are ready to move up to CUSA now like the other two have. South Alabama is probably more likely than Texas State or ULL, though...

Baylor has a legitimate complaint against Bowlsby, for sure. But that's where it ends, in my opinion. The committee chose Ohio State because of eyeballs and buying power of tickets, merchandise, and advertising. Baylor never had a chance--just like TCU didn't either...If Texas or OU had been where the two private schools were, Ohio State would be playing in the Cotton Bowl and the B1G would be bitching to everyone about how unfair it is that the B12 doesn't have a CCG. To make this UNT-related: our size could help us if we wanted it to, when it comes to athletics, even if its just at the G5 level. UH, Cincy, UCF, USF, and other G5 high-enrollment schools have shown us that. SMU, Tulane, Rice, and Tulsa aren't ever going to be able to take advantage of this because they don't have numbers on their side, from enrollment to alumni base to actual attendance at games.

Maybe TCU's admin and coaching staff is crying too, but Baylor's whining is about to feel up the Brazos...I still cannot believe they hired a PR firm to sell their candidacy to the media and committee. Maybe Ken Starr should sue the PR group for not getting the job done?

No way that would be ignored, much less swept under the rug. Music and Fine Arts are THE window to the university. That's where we butter our biscuits...as well as being a "volume value" school, graduating thousands of alums each year. I'm not even saying that's the wrong approach. Its just not done that way at any other school in the region that I am aware of, at least as a public school.

It always has been. I cannot believe that Baylor and TCU are buying this crap about the confernece championship game costing them a spot in the playoff. Back when the Big Ten didn't have a CCG, they had Ohio State make the NCG twice in a row and no one said a thing--same with USC in 2004 and 2005, when the Pac had no CCG. Simply, the reason Baylor and TCU are left out is because they aren't Texas or Oklahoma. Ohio State doesn't trump either of those two teams. But their enrollment, national following, and being a blue blood all combine to crushthe small private schools' chances. You can believe that Baylor beating Kansas State would've been respected more if it was a CCG than their win over KSU in the last regular season game, but there is absolutely no way Ohio State was going to get left out. The reactions of both schools has been kind of funny. Briles has screamed at Bowlsby about the co-champion issue and not having any southern representation on the committee, while Baylor fans want Ken Starr to sue them about this...meanwhile TCU's leadership has basically taken the tact of "Yeah, it stinks, but hey, we are in a P5 league right now...this beats the hell out of the MWC, CUSA, WAC, etc..."

This was a great thread--full of very insightful and emotional points about what the losing has done to us. I used to be so mad at those alums from the 80s and 90s that just abandoned UNT, except for the degree, and followed their favorite P5 giant, exclusively as "their" team. The graduates of the 00's and 10's, though, gave me reason to believe that things had finally reached a point where we had a decent fanbase to build from, numbers-wise. But its the losing our ass to P5 heaveyweights in the first part of every season, the playing of poor OOC home opponents, a dull-ass gameplan that puts people to sleep (ala Dickey), and now basketball is right where it was in before JJ got things rolling here...I'm very concerned that without changes higher up the foodchain than at head coach, these newer graduates who are pouring money into season tickets, donations, and apparel are about to start dropping like flies. I can tell you this much--there may be a few more fans like GrayEagle, SilverEagle, PMG, SUMG, FFR, or others like them in this next wave of fairly-recent alums, but if the school isn't gonna try an win at revenue sports, in another couple of decades, we will have people saying the same things about the graduates of the oo's and 10's as we are saying about those from the 80s and 90s-- where did they go and how can we get them back? The answer is very, very clear, for 99% of those people, once you let them go or they decide to go, they don't come back. They become T-shirt Longhorns, Sooners, Aggies, Red Raiders, etc... $78 million dollars...

If this was a more credible outlet, I might believe it, but at least for now, I'm skeptical. That said, this scenario is one that could easily play out at anytime over the next few years. You get solid basketball programs, a bowl game in Memphis, and two very nice TV markets to expand within, while also not being terribly far from the other divisional teams they would play in the north. If Memphis and Cincy leave, expect UConn to be out the door in the ACC very soon after, if not before. That will give the AAC three teams to replace. Assuming no one from the northest really makes the cut, which I wouldn't expect, these are the three most likely choices to replace them, in my opinion: NIU, MUTS, and UTSA. They get three great markets, fit within their footprint, and give them better accessibility to more TV money. Then, you'd probably see CUSA replace UTSA with Texas State immediately and then a school in a big TV market, most likely Georgia State in Atlanta.

There's a big difference--half crowds at Fouts were about 10k, at KU they are about 25k. Oh, and at KU, that wallet is full, not half full...

Damn, I was thinking this would be a skill player who didn't want to play in the WIng T offense of 1970...but an OLineman? That guy could get playing time tomorrow here if he's any good. I still think these kids and their families and coaches don't think anything of UNT Football. All the losing, the apathy, and the closeness to the home all combine to put us in a tough spot. Frankly, I thought Coach Mac would be the one to eventually fix this, but it hasn't so far.

I think you are dead-on about this, but the only thing that I don't believe is that anyone on that President's Council or the BOR thinks is that this is the lifeblood to the university's image. If TTG was a apassionate follower of the One O'Clock Lab Band or the Green Brigade or something in the Fine Arts Department, then I believe an email like this from a donor and supporter would cause heads to roll. In this case, I think his email, while awesomely on target to us on gmg.com, would just get a huge "Meh" from those in charge. Unless these people can ever come around to believeing that winning in revenue sports is the best way to advertise, promote, and fundraise for the university, it will continue to be a medium to low priority here. There's just too many decades of proof to believe anything differently, in my opinion.

Cerebus and TTG--both of you posted the absolute best answers I've read on this website in a long time about the sitaution we find ourselves in. I haven't gone to a basketball game at the Pit since 2012--the product is terrible for many reasons. It just isn't worth the time and effort to get to Denton to watch us squeak by Northwood or get drilled by 30+ points to SFA. For those that stick with it, kudos to you for being a Super Fan!! You and your other 1500 buddies are certainly getting what you deserve--great closeness to the AD and the coaches, lots of elbow room, small lines to the restroom and concessions, and witnessing the new "hockey-line" coaching of basketball that we have employed for a while now. I do feel like the fans expectations on this board have increased for what we believe we should be getting from our program, but the monied alums are obviously not at the same point. Their expectations are clearly to be able to enjoy their awesome relationship with RV and the other athletic department personnel, as if they are just like the big wigs in Austin, College Station, or Lubbock who have courtside seats and 50-yard line seats. Its almost amazing to me that this has been one of the best things RV has done--to buddy up to the few monied alums who like athletics at UNT. You'd think that kind of relationship building would've translated into bigger numbers of donating alumni and fans, since RV must be such an awesome guy to rub elbows with--and he did the unimaginable and leap-frogged Craig Helwig as the best AD we've had since we moved up to FBS by single-handedly recognizing that tailgating should be instituted here!! What a genius!! He's got to be here for life with attributes like this!! In reality, if RV ever dies or retires (he will never get fired), we will just hire someone from within the AD or go hire someone who has no clue how to run a G5 AD at an apathetic campus. It certainly won't be anyone who has run a successful AD somewhere and or someone who would ever ask the BOR if they even care about winning here? Its just what we do toward athletics. Its not the window to the university that we, as fans on this website, want it to be. It never has been, never will be. What is sad to me is that we completely lost almost all of the graduates from about 1980 thru 2000 for having any interest in UNT Sports. Then the SBC run under Dickey and the high quality teams JJ started running out in the years between 2001 and 2011 were really something that actually built up a core fanbase for both sports. Even after Dickey got fired, people knew Dodge's name and offense and were interested to see if he could make the transition, so we saw attendance perk up. Obvioulsy, it became apparent to us in Year 3 that he couldn't do it, but the OOC scheduling, very ironically, is what helped here, since we brought in Tulsa, Ohio, Army, Rice, and K-State for games at decrepit Fouts. But now, with Benford destroying the momentum JJ had built up, with the losing and boring offense and lack of worthy opponents to fans in football that has shown back up, and the fact that we extended RV with the "Track record of success" he has given us in the big revenue sports, they all combine to show a lot of us that we are getting real close to losing the newer alums who actually got excited about athletics in the ought's and have started funding the program thru season tickets and MGC contrributions. When TTG goes from posting about every UNT hoops game he could feasibly get to in all parts of the country just three years ago to now being so beaten by the reality of how the administration treats sports as a cost venture, not a revenue venture, it makes him rarely even attempt to go to a UNT game at home. You know its a problem that is much bigger than the simpleton argument of "not being a good fan like me" because you go to every game you can and just enjoy the camaraderie of hanging out at a tailgate more than actually beating an opponent that nobody in this area of the state gives a rat's ass about. But instead of fixing any of this, our BOR thinks having 1600 people at a 10,000 seat arena is just fine, that having 2000 actual people at a brand new stadium is just fine. And even worse, the monied alums think its ok, too, so they don't have to compete with others for the main attention that they get from RV or the other AD employees. It really isn't that surprising that this next decade could be the last stand for many of us to stay connected or involved with the university in any form or fashion.

Sometimes, I wonder why the G5 schools even want to be associated with the P5s that run that organization. Seriously, when they split off for good, as a UNT fan, I'm going to be thrilled to never have to play under their rules and be stuck under their thumbs anymore. Whether our dumbass administratoin at this school want to try and actually make winning a priority or just keep toeing the line of "offering" students the opportunity to watch NCAA sports at UNT is a whole other subject, but if they do decide to go about funding a winner and making it a top priority, we could do really well against the other G5 peers--like national champion-type success in the right playoff system.

To me, ASU leads the pack just because it gives you another state to play games in and they have a solid presence in Memphis and Little Rock, which is good for fans and recruiting. ULaLa is basically tied with ASU on my list, for all the reasons mentioned on this thread, but they have La Tech to argue with about being admitted to CUSA and I don't see La Tech budging on this based on their historical ltreatment of all Louisiana schools not named LSU. Texas State is gonna have the problem we had when SMU was here--they basically are stuck behind UTSA here. While they would be great for us, the eastern CUSA schools will never go for them. South Alabama has some possibilities, though, just because you get a presence in the state of Alabama again to replace UAB, but they have a bigger market and bowl game in Mobile than anything Troy can offer. I still believe that UConn is going to be in the ACC sooner rather than later. And I think Cincy will go to the Big XII eventually, along with BYU, UCF, and USF. After that, I expect that the P5 breakaway will be done and closed. And then the G5 and top FCS programs are going to need to come up with a more regionalized alliance out of necessity. I think there will be several schools that are just gonna UAB-it to their programs, but I also know that there will be many who will be able to compete well at that level if they decide that it is worth it. Only because Apogee is so new, I think we will still be playing college football at least at this level for the next few decades. Whether anyone will care or go to games anymore is the hardest answer to obtain--it dropped like a rock when we were in 1-aa, but there were a lot of circumstances that affected that, from the facility, to funding, to being in the complete shadows of the old SWC, and to the fact that most of the SLC schools were considered podunk schools that no one really knew of or cared anything about back then. Maybe it would be different today in a setup where we do have a conference with the current regional G5 and top-end FCS schools and a really smart playoff system that could still draw fan interest...