untjim1995

Cerebus and TTG--both of you posted the absolute best answers I've read on this website in a long time about the sitaution we find ourselves in. I haven't gone to a basketball game at the Pit since 2012--the product is terrible for many reasons. It just isn't worth the time and effort to get to Denton to watch us squeak by Northwood or get drilled by 30+ points to SFA. For those that stick with it, kudos to you for being a Super Fan!! You and your other 1500 buddies are certainly getting what you deserve--great closeness to the AD and the coaches, lots of elbow room, small lines to the restroom and concessions, and witnessing the new "hockey-line" coaching of basketball that we have employed for a while now. I do feel like the fans expectations on this board have increased for what we believe we should be getting from our program, but the monied alums are obviously not at the same point. Their expectations are clearly to be able to enjoy their awesome relationship with RV and the other athletic department personnel, as if they are just like the big wigs in Austin, College Station, or Lubbock who have courtside seats and 50-yard line seats. Its almost amazing to me that this has been one of the best things RV has done--to buddy up to the few monied alums who like athletics at UNT. You'd think that kind of relationship building would've translated into bigger numbers of donating alumni and fans, since RV must be such an awesome guy to rub elbows with--and he did the unimaginable and leap-frogged Craig Helwig as the best AD we've had since we moved up to FBS by single-handedly recognizing that tailgating should be instituted here!! What a genius!! He's got to be here for life with attributes like this!! In reality, if RV ever dies or retires (he will never get fired), we will just hire someone from within the AD or go hire someone who has no clue how to run a G5 AD at an apathetic campus. It certainly won't be anyone who has run a successful AD somewhere and or someone who would ever ask the BOR if they even care about winning here? Its just what we do toward athletics. Its not the window to the university that we, as fans on this website, want it to be. It never has been, never will be. What is sad to me is that we completely lost almost all of the graduates from about 1980 thru 2000 for having any interest in UNT Sports. Then the SBC run under Dickey and the high quality teams JJ started running out in the years between 2001 and 2011 were really something that actually built up a core fanbase for both sports. Even after Dickey got fired, people knew Dodge's name and offense and were interested to see if he could make the transition, so we saw attendance perk up. Obvioulsy, it became apparent to us in Year 3 that he couldn't do it, but the OOC scheduling, very ironically, is what helped here, since we brought in Tulsa, Ohio, Army, Rice, and K-State for games at decrepit Fouts. But now, with Benford destroying the momentum JJ had built up, with the losing and boring offense and lack of worthy opponents to fans in football that has shown back up, and the fact that we extended RV with the "Track record of success" he has given us in the big revenue sports, they all combine to show a lot of us that we are getting real close to losing the newer alums who actually got excited about athletics in the ought's and have started funding the program thru season tickets and MGC contrributions. When TTG goes from posting about every UNT hoops game he could feasibly get to in all parts of the country just three years ago to now being so beaten by the reality of how the administration treats sports as a cost venture, not a revenue venture, it makes him rarely even attempt to go to a UNT game at home. You know its a problem that is much bigger than the simpleton argument of "not being a good fan like me" because you go to every game you can and just enjoy the camaraderie of hanging out at a tailgate more than actually beating an opponent that nobody in this area of the state gives a rat's ass about. But instead of fixing any of this, our BOR thinks having 1600 people at a 10,000 seat arena is just fine, that having 2000 actual people at a brand new stadium is just fine. And even worse, the monied alums think its ok, too, so they don't have to compete with others for the main attention that they get from RV or the other AD employees. It really isn't that surprising that this next decade could be the last stand for many of us to stay connected or involved with the university in any form or fashion.

Sometimes, I wonder why the G5 schools even want to be associated with the P5s that run that organization. Seriously, when they split off for good, as a UNT fan, I'm going to be thrilled to never have to play under their rules and be stuck under their thumbs anymore. Whether our dumbass administratoin at this school want to try and actually make winning a priority or just keep toeing the line of "offering" students the opportunity to watch NCAA sports at UNT is a whole other subject, but if they do decide to go about funding a winner and making it a top priority, we could do really well against the other G5 peers--like national champion-type success in the right playoff system.

To me, ASU leads the pack just because it gives you another state to play games in and they have a solid presence in Memphis and Little Rock, which is good for fans and recruiting. ULaLa is basically tied with ASU on my list, for all the reasons mentioned on this thread, but they have La Tech to argue with about being admitted to CUSA and I don't see La Tech budging on this based on their historical ltreatment of all Louisiana schools not named LSU. Texas State is gonna have the problem we had when SMU was here--they basically are stuck behind UTSA here. While they would be great for us, the eastern CUSA schools will never go for them. South Alabama has some possibilities, though, just because you get a presence in the state of Alabama again to replace UAB, but they have a bigger market and bowl game in Mobile than anything Troy can offer. I still believe that UConn is going to be in the ACC sooner rather than later. And I think Cincy will go to the Big XII eventually, along with BYU, UCF, and USF. After that, I expect that the P5 breakaway will be done and closed. And then the G5 and top FCS programs are going to need to come up with a more regionalized alliance out of necessity. I think there will be several schools that are just gonna UAB-it to their programs, but I also know that there will be many who will be able to compete well at that level if they decide that it is worth it. Only because Apogee is so new, I think we will still be playing college football at least at this level for the next few decades. Whether anyone will care or go to games anymore is the hardest answer to obtain--it dropped like a rock when we were in 1-aa, but there were a lot of circumstances that affected that, from the facility, to funding, to being in the complete shadows of the old SWC, and to the fact that most of the SLC schools were considered podunk schools that no one really knew of or cared anything about back then. Maybe it would be different today in a setup where we do have a conference with the current regional G5 and top-end FCS schools and a really smart playoff system that could still draw fan interest...

I actually can't fault RV for A&M not being on our schedule. The circumstances behind the Aggies leaving for the SEC and the subsequent lockout by the Big XII Texas schools made games in Dallas against SMU a bit more understandable. They have a huge alumni base in Houston, obviously, so playing at Rice or UH isn't needed. But, up here in DFW, they get to their next largest alumni base, with an easy game to attend and win. Arky at Jerry World isn't cheap, nor is it easy to win, so SMU is a glorified scrimmage for them. But the bigger reason it is there is that Aggies have a that SWC connection with SMU, which is similar to Texas playing in Houston at Reliant Stadium against Rice. Their older alumni get a recognizable opponent, their fans get an easy game to attend, and the team gets an easy win on the "road". Look, we aren't ever gonna be in play with any of those old SWC public schools, except for UH. Texas, A&M, Tech, Arkansas, and add in Oklahoma to that list, as well, are never gonna play here. They don't need the game in DFW, with TCU here, as well as the A&M/Arky game. I am now at the point of just schedule OOC games like 2013, please. At least we had two FBS home games, even if Idaho is near the bottom of that list. Give me a MAC team or SBC team over NIcholls State, Incarnate Word, Portland State, or Texas Southern. Most people will never waste one second going to a game at Apogee when we are playing a low-level FCS team. Its not worth the time or money. RV, I can't even expect you to get an OOC game at home with a MWC team because that would be several levels higher than we have scheduled already since 2012. But, hey, we get SMU at home and as an "alternative" home game every year now!! How awesome is that!! //sarcasm

Seriously, who do you realistically think should replace UAB in the conference?

Think outside of the box and help you get ready for the future travel costs that need to reduced--go with three new members geographically--one in the east, one in the south, and one in the west. Get South Alabama for the east, ULaLa and Arkansas State in the west. No one can complain about sharing too many markets with another team, you get some good hoops programs, and you can easily get a bowl tie-in with Mobile. Old Dominion, Marshall, Charlotte, FIU, FAU, WKU, MUTS, USA in the East UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, Ark State, ULaLa, La Tech and USM in the west You could then do something even crazier for the entire league and for ADs that cannot schedule worth a damn--you play 7 games in your division, 3 out of division, and 2 OOC games, so if you want to whore out your team for a game and it kills your OOC scheduling, this would at least ensure that youll always have 5 home games, and most likely six if you're AD thinks Portland State, Incarnate word, Texas Southern, and Nicholls State are attractive opponents that people are dying to come watch us play so he pays for them to come here.

Their 2015 OOC schedule was at Tennessee (we are already playing them), Georgia State, South Alabama, and at Troy. Troy's only OOC home game was UAB. Georgia State has two OOC home games, Charlote and Liberty, as well as games at UAB and at Oregon. South Alabama plays Gardner Webb and NC State at home (shaking my head here), as well as games at Nebraska and at UAB. South Alabama may very well be coming back here in 2015.

That was their huge mistake. He is a very good coach.

Compared to what I listed above for the last 20 years, that sounds damn near nirvana...yes, I'd take it right now.

In all seriousness, I bet RV is on the phone right now with AD at Georgia State to get them here this season, since they were scheduled to play at UAB this past season.

To be our DC? To make more than our head coach? Pelini is about to make 7 figures at a P5 giant somewhere as a coordinator or as a head coach at another school somehwere...

Welp, see ya' later...

Be careful for what you ask for...we have done plenty in the last 20 years to prove we aren't serious about winning football. Before Mac got us to a bowl game last year with a 9-4 record, we went 2-9, 3-9, 2-10, 1-11, 2-10, 3-9, 5-7, and 4-8 in the previous 8 seasons. If you take out the 2002-2004 SBC championship teams that finished with 8-5, 9-4, and 7-6 records, the previous 7 seasons to that, when we made it back up to FBS in 1995, include these records 2-9, 5-6, 4-7, 3-8, 2-9, 3-9, 5-7. Previous to that was a 12 year drop down to 1-aa, which apparently is the only reason we didn't UAB our program back in 1982.

It won't matter how poor the attendance gets--the BOR deals in known costs, not "opportunity" costs from increased attendance. One is controllable, one isn't. One requires a known investment, the other requires extra funding that may not be returned or may be wildly returned plus some. You've been following this place for a long time, based on 1980 as your graduation year. That you are still here, is, in many ways, nothing short of a miracle. You are literally in the 1% (or less) of that class that probably even cares enough to follow UNT sports in some fashion. You know better than I do that an empty Fouts, Super Pit, or Apogee doesn't bother anyone on the BOR or in the Administration. If it did, things would have changed decades ago. If we get 25k at a football game, its like a freaking celebration around here--same with a basketball game with more than 6000. You either accept it or walk away. Because, as you have noticed a few times in the last 35 years or so, complaining about it won't change anything. Unless the BOR and administration drastically changes its mind on funding the program and the way it promotes the school, winning at revenue sports will never matter here nearly as much as you want it to. Yes, moving up to Divsion 1-A in 1995 took an investment--which was paid by an alum for 10,000 aluminum seats at Fouts that had to be the worst seat in the history of college football watching anywhere. And then we paid for the entire budget by getting an AD in who's idea of raising revenue was to play road games against the biggest payers in college sports. Yes, we built Apogee--after a stealth student body campaign miraculously passed, only to see the student fee get sunsetted against paying off the stadium and only charging well under what other Texas public schools charge for their athletics fee. Yes, we paid out more for a head coach than we ever have to an experienced head coach in McCarney, but we won't ever consider buying him out until the cost is "manageable". I gave this place 5 years to turn it around from a winning standpoint and they went to the HoD Bowl and won it. So as not to be a hypocrite, I have nothing I can do but accept the above and keep following our teams, even when it is back to being very difficult to do. But it would sure be easy to walk away, just as so many of my fellow alumni have done without even a bit of remorse.

There are way too many examples here within the last 15 years to argue against this. Todd Dodge made half of the salary that Dan McCarney makes, had posted all of 5 wins against 31 losses, including a wonderful 2-10 year in 2009 that matched his best record as a head coach here, , and only got fired when he won 1 game out of the first 7 he coached in the 4th year of his 5-year contract. The only way I could see the scenario playing out like you suggest is if in 2016, we won less than 2 games. With SMU, Army, a bought FCS game, and 8 games against CUSA competition in 2016, its hard for me to see us winning 1 game or less. The precedent has been set here, as far back as when RV tried to fire Darrell Dickey after losing to ULM to start off 0-5 in 2001, which was the 4th year of his contract, but the BOR told him unequivocally that Dickey would finish the year, one that miraculously turned around from 0-5 to 5-7 and a NO BOwl appearance that got him a small extension. Vic Trilli got rewarded for three years of the worst basketball I have ever seen by being give a 4th year of his 5 year contract--which he took advantage of by going 4-24. It costs money to buyout a contract...that is all that matters.

Well, we don't really have a choice here. He has to be given a chance--he has 3 more years at least to convince us that he wants to make the changes he talks about here. Next year, with McNulty and an inexperienced OL, plus a still really young defensive unit without much size, and a much harder schedule, most likely even with changes that we want to see, this thing is still destined for 3-4 wins. In 2016, albeit with a new busdriver QB, we will play SMU here, at Army, at Florida, and probably another Texas Southern/Nicholls State game in OOC. We should have a more experienced defense and the OL will be in its second year together. We just got to hope that will be the year we can 6+ wins by then. 2017 will be interesting, too, since we play at Iowa and at SMU, with Army at home. Conceivably, you could have a bus driver in his second year, an OL in its third year, and a defense that will hopefully look like 2013's unit. Yes, its a ways out--but we literally have no choice as fans but to look at the situation as reasonably as possible and assess when its possible to be a bowl eligible team again. When you run a vanilla offense, you gotta have a great OL and defense, as well as a bus driver QB that doesn't cost you games--to me, with where we sit right now, 2016 or 2017 are the earliest possibilities to reasonably get back there. We aren't going to fire a head coach making the highest salary in the history of the school before he has only one year left to buyout. The school doesn't care if you get 3000 people to a game, they aren't gonna pay that much. The entire board would be wise to realize this and accept it for what it is. Complain if you want to, but if Todd Dodge could go 5-31 and get a 4th year, at half the salary, Dan McCarney is gonna get the same opportunity here. Do with that as you may, whether its continuing to support the program, following from an arm's length, or just walking away, the BOR and the administration flat out don't care. The only thing that matters is known cost--absolutely nothing else.

You MIGHT be able to pull that off with the head coach at Sam Houston State...which probably would be a better fit for us from a recruiting standpoint than it would to get a brand new coach from NDSU.

The next coach won't be here until 2018 at the earliest, assuming nothing health related happens to Mac. At this point, we have no idea what he would leave behind for a new coach then or what a new coach could do with the talent that has been assembled.

I love the Hayden Fry stories when he was here, especially the efforts he put in to get people interested. BUt the problem was that he still couldn't get people to come out and watch the team play, even when they were really good and got ranked. This town and this university don't care about UNT sports--they never have and they never will. I was looking at the list of G5 schools that FFR posted earlier in this thread--every single one of them puts revenue athletics as the top window to the university to connect to their alumni, students, faculty, local fans, and future students and fans. A school like Utah State, who was moribund in football, still figures out a way to get into the MWC. Now, they play people their fans care about and that recruits want to play at and they are good now. They have placed an emphasis on Stew Morrill's hoops program, which has paid off dearly for them over the years. What they didn't do was place an emphasis on music or arts to be THE window to the university--just like every other school on that list. We don't--never have, never will. Maybe our school's tact is the right move--training future educators, musicians, and artists have significant value to society. Sophistication is often thought of with those three endeavors. It isn't with football or basketball--both are thought of raw, unsophisticated, even appalling to many folks. A school of higher education is supposed to focus on the quality of the academics and well-roundedness of its students learning options--maybe UNT and Denton have it figured out and we are just wrong on this board for thinking college football and college basketball should matter more than what the UNT Leaders and the citizenry of Denton believe. Its just hard when you grow up in Texas, where football is king of all outside activities (not just sports, but everything), and every other college around you thinks that the sport is the best way to show pride in your school. My favorite putdown, of the many I ever heard from co-workers and buddies, about UNT has always been, "Man, if we had to play yall in a marching band competition or in an art exhibit, yall would kick our ass!!" It is so easy to see why UNT students and alums who care about college sports love Texas, A&M, OU, Tech, Baylor, TCU, SMU, etc...as their "team". We don't even try to act like sports matter here beyond the bare minimum. Always has been this way, always will be this way. Dan McCarney cannot change this, nor can Tony Benford, nor RV, nor can any of us on gmg.com. Unless you get a BOR and Chancellor and President who think that athletics should trump everything else outside of academics here, you won't see any changes. The town doesn't want it, the faculty doesn't want it, and a large majority of students and alumni don't want it. To me, the only way you have any chance at changing this thought (culture) is to win something huge. The HoD Bowl was very nice, but it was still small compared to what I am talking about. Its winning a conference championship and getting into a New Years Day Bowl and winning it, while the P5s still allow it. Or winning a playoff system when the G5s and FCS are forced to combine into their own division. Or, even more possible with the right coach in hoops (which isn't Benford, even if he gets an extension soon), a deep run in the NCAA tournament. Maybe that isn't even enough to overcome this thought that athletics should never trump music and arts as THE window to the university, but its the one thing we have never done here to see if it would work. All I know is that there are a lot of the local citizenry, students, faculty, and administration who wish that their areas of academia had received some portion of the $78 million that got put into Apogee--eventually that bitterness is going to come home to roost on the BOR and Chancellor who allowed it to happen on their watch, and those voices are gonna make damn sure that nothing like that will ever get approved again by the folks who are future BOR and administrators here.

I just don't understand how you can take the time away from your family to go watch us play some FCS school in Denton. I really don't have that kind of time with three small children and all that they have going on. Now, if this was Kansas or Colorado, hell even Colorado State or Texas State, I'd figure out a way. But if the AD is so lazy to only have us play for big paychecks on the road at P5 powers and then gives us FCS schools that provide no value other than a bought win in front of 10k real butts-in-seats, I have no interest in going. I never went to games against Texas Southern, South Alabama, or Nicholls State, nor will I ever attend a game against Portland State or Incarnate Word. Now, if it was SFA, SHSU, or an FCS team who would travel and give you a good game, like NDSU or Montana, that would at least get my interest to go. But these others are absolutely terrible--they provide you with no real gauge on where you are as a team (see Texas Southern and Nicholls State), they bring nobody to Denton, and even worse, they don't give UNT students, alums, or fans any reason to give up your money and time to watch a glorified scrimmage. If we don't like it when we play at P5 giant on the road for money, we shouldn't want a FCS nobody to buy and beat the crap out of, either. At a school like ours, we are better off having five home games with one OOC game being a G5 or P5 school at home and three on the road, if necessary. Sorry, six home games (or in this case, 5 home games, with an "alternative" home game) isn't ever going to draw back the folks we are always griping about. The general college football fan, which is 98% of the UNT fanbase, would rather stay home and watch their favorite T-shirt school on TV or at their stadium than watch us play a team that couldn't beat Allen HS.

Don't get me wrong--I agree with you. But its pretty much the way it will go, if the following happens this weekend; TCU and Baylor win in the less than stellar fashion (especially Baylor) and Ohio State (somehow) clobbers Wisconsin, which I don't see happening at all right now. But again, Ohio State is college football royalty--the NCAA is gonna do all they can to make sure they get included in their new playoff. TCU is really their biggest competition here, as the committee has made it abundantly clear that they don't like Baylor's OOC schedule at all, and TCU's victory over Minnesota is better than Ohio State's victory over the Gophers. In the end, the NCAA might get their out on this, since Ohio State's QB is out for this game and Wisconsin has been playing real well. But if its all equal, Ohio State's advantages are gonna be weighed real hard against TCU.

Army is a home game in 2017, I believe...

You're learning...

5-year contracts are the price to play poker these days at the FBS level--for the most part. The price of poker at most places includes buying out more than two years if needed, but not here, lathough I do admit that Dickey's two-year buyout apparently is the reason we had to hire from a high school instead of paying up to get Jim Harbaugh, who laughed at the fact we could even get in the $400k range. Of course, Harbaugh got hired at Stanford that off-season, so he was probably just using UNT for interview experience and leverage. But since I have followed UNT, CorkyNelson got fired in his contract year, Jimmie Gales got fired in his contract season, Dennis Parker got fired after his last season on contract, Matt Simon got fired with one year left on his contract, Jankovich resigned, Trilli got fired with a year left on his contract, Dodge got fired with a year left on his contract, Johnny Jones left for LSU, and Benford has kept his job with two awful years behind him and three years left on his contract, of which he has at least two years left to go, bare minimum. And, just in case, you wondered, Tina Slinker stayed here for 19 years as the womens coach, with a record of 241-287 and exactly two postseason berths, the NWIT in 2001 and 2002, which featured two immediate losses. She was finally let go when her contract expired in 2007...

In the last four years at decrepit, toilet-bowl Fouts, we played Kansas State, Rice, Army, Ohio, Tulsa, and Navy... $78 million dollars