untjim1995

RV is a symptom of the illness, not the problem. You cut out RV and you get at best, another BOR lackey. Only way that athletics ever changes here is if the BOR and administration decide to fund it correctly--hiring proven winners or coaches from previous successful staffs of any coach you lose to a bigger job (see JJ to LSU, then not hiring from within but instead hiring an unproven assistant known only as a recruiter), but also firing people for not winning within their first 2-3 years on the job. I have no issue with 5-year contracts--they are an industry standard. But to not fire someone who has been a severe disappointment, to put it mildly, because of the 5-year contract having guaranteed years to have to still payout, then all you are doing is telling everyone that winning doesn't matter here. And it doesn't--at all. Seeing how the university and the city have never taken to UNT athletics ever, you tell me when that changes. Because it hasn't in my 25 years of following the program, nor does it sound like it did in the 25 years before that. Could that change? Sure, but it'll be hard to see that culture change ever occuring anytime soon. So to me, although I think RV is a below average AD at any other FBS university in America, he's just an accepted commodity in Denton, because the BOR has no interest at all in changing this. Maybe that is because they know that their alumni, students, faculty, and local citizenry don't want it, that they just want cheap tuition and a focus on music, fine arts, and education. If that is truly the point, I just wish they would plainly tell us that. Most of us wouldn't even be mad, in fact we would appreciate the candor.

I would hope that the "breakout" season would involve 20 wins AND a winning season in conference play AND a postseason tournament bid in the NCAA or NIT only. What I have a suspicious feeling about is that it is just going to take .500 or better to get him extended. RV needs this to work out BADLY...otherwise, you are looking at another major hire as a bust under his watch, in the one sport that actually had turned into something decent. You know, I get that Benford's buyout is big and that it is just more than we can or choose to pay right now, for a lot of reasons, acceptable and unacceptable. But if football does what we think it will in 2015, which is get about 3-4 wins, and Benford follows that up with a 17-15 record full of wins over SWAC and D-II teams in OOC and still gets extended, how are you ever going to get a fanbase built up to even remotely come close to averaging decent attendance at the Super Pit or Apogee? And if that isn't your goal, then why play FBS/Division 1 athletics?

Next season is make-it-or-break-it with him...there will only be a 2017 if he gets an extension. No way that we let a coach go and recruit with one year left on his contract--nobody would ever sign with a coach who could be gone by the end of the season.

This. Dan McCarney created at least some buzz around here becuase people had actually seen him do something of note at Iowa State as a head coach. No one else we have hired in the two big revenue sports can we say this about since we hired Hayden Fry in 1973. When the Benford Experiment is finally ended next year, I will go back to hoping we do something to hire someone we have heard of before. Unlike in football, where a big name school dwarfs the support and resources we will ever have, basketball is a whole different animal. Just want someone who knows how to be a head coach and has had success before as a head coach. Another unknown assistant will not be cool. At this point, I'd settle for even a head coach at an SBC or SLC school, too. Or even the guy at New Mexico State that has been to the tournament 5 times in the last 6 years...

Well, in Denton's defense, if I was being sold the merits of going to games against SFA, Lamar, SHSU, SWT, NE LA, NW State, McNeese State, Nicholls State, and any other SLC team in 1982, especially while the SWC was at the height of its strength, I wouldn't have gone either. I think Denton of today could be different than it was back then, just because we aren't telling them that Hayden Fry's departure was leading to what followed...

I have said it before and I'll say it again, but to me, the only school in America that can relate to our situation is San Jose State. They are in a big city of a huge market (SF-Oak-San Jose), get totally ignored because of Cal and Stanford, as well as the other Pac-12 teams. They have funding issues, support problems, and usually don't win. But in the end, they got a spot in the non-P5 league that they needed to become a part of, the MWC, which is the best non-P5 league in their region (now its the only one, basically). We are in CUSA, which was the league we dreamed of joining, but the teams we wanted to join with all left to another conference, the AAC. The MWC took a chance on SJSU, either because of "potential" or because they just needed them to fill the conference, but they got what I've always believed we still need--a conference that is higher up the totem pole who looks at us and says that we would give them every benefit that UH gives to Houston or SMU gives to DFW, that our "potential" could get unlocked with success in their league. We have never gotten that opportunity...not even once. I've always thought that Denton residents might be more open to supporting us if we played teams that they cared about or had heard of before, rather than the dregs of FBS or worse, like the i-aa fiasco years that just about killed us. Without Denton's support, though, we are not going to be any better off than we are now, probably worse actually.

All of this is moot if the City of Denton and its residents don't care about Mean Green Football or basketball. That is what you have to get going in the first place. I'd recommend you do the following--get folks from the AD out into the community and ask them what it would take to get them to come out to a game on a regular basis? Ask them at civic groups, Chamber of Commerce functions, and at Denton ISD HS games. Have a person in the AD who is supposed to be in the civic groups and a representative of the Chamber, have someone who attends those games and sets up a table out front to ask questions and get attention to the program. You cannot tell me that you don't have enough people in the ticket office, people working as assistant to the AD, or other assoiciate ADs themselves. The scary part could very well be the answer--they just don't care about us and won't ever come out to watch us play the teams we play. I mean, really, that's basically what they've told us over the last few decades by not showing up. But, assuming that you can motivate them, you gotta find out what it will take to get them out there. Let's assume that Denton will support us if we became a winner, which they never did during the Dickey SBC years, nor did they during the JJ years at the Super Pit, since we never came close to averageing even half of capacity for attendance. The next question is what level of sports are we playing? Is it the current setup as it is, as a non-P5 in both sports, but with a chance at a big boy bowl game and still being able to go into the NCAA Tournament each year? Or is that we just get to keep the NCAA Tournament hopes alive, but we are playing at level like the current FCS because the P5s finally pull away? If its the first one, then I think the Boise and Ft. Worth hopes have merit. If not, then the best you can really hope for is some kind of conference collection that still attracts people to go to games in Denton, even if its not the highest level of play in football. No matter what scenario you look at, though, unless the City of Denton and its residents begin to treat UNT like a hometown team deserving of its time and dollars, its all a moot point. We stay at the starting gate waiting to run, while everyone else has already left or has lapped us several times. Its why UTSA has such a gigantic advantage over us--they are being sold as San Antonio's hometown and have their local media on board with helping them out. That's not even including the fact that UTSA isn't selling to its fans decades of apathy and flat-out giveup by the university, unlike us. Unless Denton gets over whatever it is that keeps them from supporting our teams, we aren't moving forward fast enough to see our situation improve greatly from where it is today. Since 1995, when we moved up to FBS, we have made progress, but its been 20 years of mostly frustration, whether its because of UNT, Denton, the Big XII, the old SWC schools, etc...If the first two folks just mentioned had supported this thing at a higher level, both in money and in fans, I have no doubt we would be in the AAC or MWC today. Instead, we stay behind the SWC schools on the totem pole because of money, fans, and reputation.

TTG, You forgot about the freakin' platforms...MULTIPLE PLATFORMS!!!! They'll need to see you in HR around 4:45 today.

You'd think, but I don't use colors or fonts...there's only Plumm!!

Dear Neal, If you care about winning in sports that people actually follow and pay money to watch, and if you care so much about it that you want to fight the BOR's anti-athletics members, go for it. If the BOR refuses to help you with this, make it public. Don't hide anything about it. You'll get a job somewhere else anyway that has much less troubles financially than you have here. Show everyone waht we are dealing with here in a public fashion, that athletics are well below music and arts, education, and low cost tuition on the totem pole. If you don't care about winning in revenue sports, congratulations on the rest of your UNT Presidency. You should be able to stay here for at least a decade, if not longer. You'll continue to lose the segment of the alumni base that COULD help this place more than you could ever imagine, men who like sports and have a competitive streak. These are men with business and sales backgrounds, men with leadership positions that know lots of others who could be swayed to help. They stay away in droves here, unlike at the other places in the state. So ignore them some more, but they are your best bet to fix the financial mess that you inherited, a mess that probably doesn't become a huge issue if we tried to tap into the reservoir of men who have graduated from this place and have grown in their careers. We lost 25 years of alumni because of small thinking. If you don't want to fix that, it won't surprise me, since the BOR handpicked you, but it will make you look like you are just a company line man, a sellout, if you will, since you came from UNLV and showed the exact opposite type of care about revenue sports as we have shown here forever. Either you are you're own man or you're a sellout, no different than those corporate jerks that so many in academia complain about all the time. I'd just hate it if you got labeled as being a sellout. But if you don't care about winning in revenue sports HERE, than that's all you are in many ways, a bought man told to think and sell a belief that is totally opposite of how you were in Las Vegas. Who are you, Neal? The next year will tell us a whole lot about this. We cut bait with a womens hoops coach because his record was atrocious. Benford's isn't anywhere near that bad, but his tenure as a coach of an even bigger revenue sport is much more disappointing than that of the womens coach we just fired. And if McCarney cannot find his mojo again, its looking very possible that we are going back to the days of being a boring program that loses a lot, similar to the Dickey years, sans 2002-2004.Whatever direction you choose, just let us know publically. Because right now, a lot of people don't know what YOU want, so they have to make assumptions from either your UNLV background or the history of the university and our views on athletics. We need direction--one way or the other. We just need to know if this is waht you are content with, like the BOR has been, if you aren't content with it, but the BOR won't budge, or if you can sway them to see that we need to make winning our clear goal and money won't be the problem anymore in determining who is the head coach in football, mens hoops, or womens hoops. We just need you to tell us in a clear and concise fashion. Sincerely, GMG.com

Probably sometime next February or March is my best guess...

Known costs...what it always is here. Opportunity costs don't matter, just known costs.

Dodge's assistants left as soon as they could after this third season. IIRC, OL Coach Spencer Leftwich left just before fall camp was about to start to go to Tulsa becuase he knew what was likely to be in store. Rob Evans will either bail or he will look at this being his chance to become an interim coach that might get looked at as a potential head coach.

Fairly soon, just as we did with Todd Dodge and Vic Trilli, the AD will come and say that the line in the sand has been made clear to Tony Benford for this upcoming season and that we need to start winning. That will be code for: we cannot or will not buy him out before next year

I really, really hope that flyonthewall enjoyed this game tonight with RV and his buddies in Birmingham. Nice effort by Benford and the boys against powerhouse Rice...#isitstillajoke?

I won't hold my breath on that last part. I've followed UNT because they are mine, not for any other reason. I spent 25 seasons follwoing UNT football and basketball (1990-2014) always believeing that one day, we would step up and assume a great spot as a large, growing college athletics power in the middle of a fertile recruiting area. I truly believed it. After the HoD Bowl win and a great 2013 season, I may have been more convinced than ever of this being the point that pushed us forward, finally. Then recruiting happened...again. As if we that winning season and having McCarney's passion didn't even resonate one iota with the Texas HS kids. It led to a revival of the Dickey Monster coming out of the guy who I felt couldn't ever get down. Instead, the full beatdown of who we are and who we are thought to be by the public made me realize that hte only way to change this is to make winning your only goal in the revenue sports. And then I realized how that hasn't ever happened and that the strong majority of the UNT family aren't in agreement of that goal. So you either accept it or you leave. Few accept it around here, most abandon the ship or don't even attempt to get on it. But those are your choices. And its why we perpetually get between 5k and 15k at football games and 1-2k to mens hoops games. Within a county that has several hundred thousand people and a Metroplex with millions, of which hundreds of thousands of UNT students and alumni live in, that's what we get--unless we give them something more special to be a part of. Mostly, its been playing a big name team in Denton--see Baylor in 2003 at Fouts, or Texas Tech in 2011 at the Super Pit, but its also been playing in a bowl game in New Orleans or Dallas. But its almost as if those examples don't even resonate at all with the leaders here. If they don't care about anymore than they do, why should 99% of those who went to or graduated from North Texas at some point in their life? Its the answer to this last question that makes it quite clear that you just have two real choices--accept how it goes or just walk away. There is absolutely no pressure to win here in Denton from the media, most alumni, or the administration. For now, I just choose to accept it for what it is, but also to explain to others why I've been forced to be in this place in my UNT fandom...

I say it because it is to stop people from thinking RV is gonna ever get fired becuase of wins and losses...

Any hire cannot be deemed bad or good until you see what they have, typically over a couple of years. Every once in a while, you get a guy like Benford, who crushes the momentum of a program in a short amount of time, deeming a failure call a little more understandable early on, but usually you gotta see what 2-3 years shows us. That's how you deem someone a bad hire, assuming there are no off-field or off-court issues to deal with. Todd Dodge seemed like a great hire when we got him. Vic Trilli did, too. A lot of people liked the Tony Benford hire, just as they did the Mike Petersen hire. But in each case, after a couple of years of watching their teams, unequivocally you could deem them each bad hires. And the extra year or years they got after that have not changed that sentiment, which is why buying out a contract with two years left is smarter than doing it with just one left. The costs of the buyout for the extra year can at least get the opportunity to be made up for by bringing in someone who makes the fanbase believe that improvement is coming, creating excitement and a boost in attendance. The scary part to me about buying out Petersen is that we will do what we did when we hired Dodge, which was find the absolute cheapest option available to help mitigate the costs of the extra year of buying out Dickey's massive $275k per year contract (sarcasm inserted here...) If you are going to give Jalie Mitchell a chance, since she's an unproven assistant, at least she's one of our own, one that you can feel good about giving a chance to even if she hasn't ever been a head coach before. Its hiring an assistant or HS head coach who's not an alum from UNT to be a head coach at our university that just kills us usually. Granted, Petersen or Aston didn't fit the description, but women's hoops isn't nearly as costly as the other two revenue sports, of which we have hired a grand total of three people since 1973 who were full-time head coaches before they got here to be head coaches--Hayden Fry in 1973, Bob Tyler in 1982 and Dan McCarney in 2011. No one in mens basketball had been a full-time head coach at another college before they got here. Its why I thought Benford wasn't a great hire when we hired him. An inexperienced head coach, known as a recruiter, that is also an alum of Texas Tech--if he did well here, he'd be the head coach in Lubbock right now. If he doesn't, you're stuck with him for 4 years. Hiring anyone else might have seen them already leave, as well. But I'd have taken my chances with at least getting guys like Bob Marlin, Danny Kaspar, or Steve Shields before hiring an assistant outside the program.

I think the OOC will stay dumbed down, most likely, so getting above .500 by 4-5 games will be the ultimate goal for RV and Benford. If we are 18-14 next year, going into the CUSA Tournament, then split a couple of games to finish at 19-15, sadly, I can see Benford getting an extension of a couple of years. I think RV reeaaaaaalllyyy wants Benford to make it, just to avoid another revenue sports hire getting fired. The womens' team has 9 straight losing seasons. The men's team has fallen off sharply in the last three years. And the football team has one winning season in the last ten, which got the coach a 5-year extension. And the guy who has been in charge the whole time over the athletic department still gets extensions to stay here in his role--because he stays within budget and never publically complains about anything regarding funding.

Next year is Benford's 4th year--of a 5 year contract. He either makes RV extend him or they cut bait. No way he goes into the last year of his contract as the head coach--it will kill any chance of recruiting anyone to come here with no idea of who would be coaching here in the next season. So, its 2016 that determines Benford's fate. What is your line in the sand for him to come back? More importantly, what is the line in the sand for RV and the BOR to extend him? I truly believed that a .500 season this year, following last season's .500 record would be enough for RV to float the idea of extending him after this season, but I don't see any chance of that happening now. My line in the sand is that he gets us either the NCAA Tournament or NIT--that was the type of program he inherited, one that was on the cusp of earning postseason tournament berths. Not the CBI or CIT, either, tournaments that can be bought into by a desperate AD. For RV and the BOR, I think we have to do two things next year for him to get an extension of a couple of more years. 1.) Finish above .500 by more than 5 games after CUSA Tournament play 2.) Finish in the top half of the CUSA standings What do you guys think?

This ensures that Benford will be here for his make-it-or-break it season next year. No way we are buying off two contracts at one time, especially Benford's. Jalie Mitchell is an intriguing possibility for this job. I think that would make a lot of sense in many, many ways.

Yeah, but we are killing it in the Staying Within Our Budget Rankings!! Should be worth another year or two pretty soon for ol' RV from the BOR...

Great. And our record against them in marching band performances and in low athletic fees charged to students is 20-1 (PV A&M owns us in those, as well...) Start with the windows of the university that the BOR and the administration actually care about most, then work your way down from there. Somewhere near the bottom, you should find winning in sports that other schools in this state and in this region care about.

Its certainly not a no-confidence move, either... Generally speaking, people you aren't complelely satisfied with don't get extensions on their contracts. They like him--he is a personable guy, no question about it. He doesn't publically complain or criticize. He just keeps the company line. And he likes the paycheck and the gig--it requires less effort to be an AD here than at every single FBS school in this region of the country, maybe even the entire country. There isn't a single AD in FBS who would've kept their jobs after hiring Todd Dodge and Tony Benford. Not here, though. Instead, he got that extension AFTER those two great experiments. You can be mad at him all you want and think he should step up and the football coach needs to be less pissy about the issues he has as coach at UNT, but it doesn't change unless the BOR and administration want that to happen. And it is clear that they don't, because the UNT "family" doesn't want it either. No way that the citizenry of Denton, the faculty at UNT, or the students who love the cheaper tuition will accept a huge sea change in the way we have always run athletics for decades...it ain't happening.

Coach Mac ain't going anywhere--at the very earliest, it would be 2017, and if announces he wants to retire after 2018, his last year of his contract, he'll get to do that, too. I don't think any AD will do much better at winning in sports people care about just because the BOR and administration don't care about winning. Do I think that RV should keep his job? No I don't--his revenue sports hires/extensions have generally been atroicous. The other sports don't matter--they don't bring in revenue or publicity to the university. Even womens hoops is barely on the radar for this, but it does count. The other two sports are where you can make your money. RV has hired or extended Darrell Dickey, Todd Dodge, Dan McCarney, Shanice Stephens, Karen Aston, Rick Petersen, Johnny Jones, and Tony Benford. A few hits, but a lot of strikeouts. Our big donors like being close to the AD--it makes them feel like their buddies that went to Texas , A&M, Tech, etc...who have access to the ADs there. Only problem is that we don't have anywhere close to the number of big donors that they do, nor do we have enough younger donors in their 40s-60s, since we basically gave up the sport of football for the 80s and 90s. So those big donors really don't have to worry about any pressure on RV from other donors. They know the BOR doesn't care if we win or not, they just care that he keeps us in budget. RV will be here longer going forward than McCarney, Benford, and Petersen combined if he wants to. I have no doubt about this. He gets extended when we lose big time in these sports, just like Lee Jackson gets extended even with the stuff that has happened on his watch. Call it cronyism, call it prioritizing, etc...The BOR cares about music, arts, education, and keeping it all at a low cost. That has always been their mission, thru the decades--to think otherwise about it ever changing is defying all of that history, both short-term and long-term. We don't care about winning here, it just doesn't matter. We care about three things when it comes to athletics, in this order: Stay within budget, don't commit anything illegal to get in trouble, and have tailgating open to get the people who care about sports the opportunity to have a good time together. Nothing else...